Parcells had Simms who while not montana, was no slouch.
Marty had Bernie and kid out in SD
Yeah, Parcells who still won without Simms with Jeff friggin Hostetler at the gun, and Vinny Testaverde with the Jets.
And don't give Bernie Kosar that much credit. And he won a shit ton of games in KC with Steve Deberg, a washed up Montana, and Elvis Grbac.
Are we considering good coaches just coaches that won games and not Super Bowl's ?
Matt Cassel count in NE ?
You said good to great. And I would say upon the notion that they've won a lot of games, and may have won a Super Bowl. That'd be consistent with good to great. Cassel I'll give you, but one season without Brady doesn't tell me anything. Especially when Moss wanted to play, and therefore made Welker a better receiver and so on. The latter years of the Pats have been built upon their reputation of those three Super Bowl wins. Drafting Tom Brady was the equivalent of winning the lottery. Extremely lucky.
Yeah, Parcells who still won without Simms with Jeff friggin Hostetler at the gun, and Vinny Testaverde with the Jets.
And don't give Bernie Kosar that much credit. And he won a shit ton of games in KC with Steve Deberg, a washed up Montana, and Elvis Grbac.
Are we considering good coaches just coaches that won games and not Super Bowl's ?
Matt Cassel count in NE ?
You said good to great. And I would say upon the notion that they've won a lot of games, and may have won a Super Bowl. That'd be consistent with good to great. Cassel I'll give you, but one season without Brady doesn't tell me anything. Especially when Moss wanted to play, and therefore made Welker a better receiver and so on. The latter years of the Pats have been built upon their reputation of those three Super Bowl wins. Drafting Tom Brady was the equivalent of winning the lottery. Extremely lucky.
how have their latter years been based on reputation? they were in the super bowl 3 years ago. 2 years ago brady was out for the season and they still won 10 games. last year they were back in the playoffs. they'll be back again this year. and they have about 50 draft picks next april. do you expect them to win the super bowl every year?
that's it. that is all bill belichek ever did.
:roll:
never said that was all he did - just trying to make the point that circumstances for coaches differ so hard to say because A did this that he is necessarily greater than B. Yes I think Bellichek is a great coach but he did get fn lucky as hell that Tom Brady is one of the greatest QBs of all time and basically fell in his lap. Hell at least give Andy Reid credit for Drafting a long term damn good to great QB in McNabb over guys like Akili Smith and Cade McNown who people loved going into that draft - not to mention the Ricky Williams morons. My point is trying to say X is or is not a great coach because he hasn't won one extra game to me is a bit or a reach since circumstances are different for each coach and organization.
In closing on the Andy Reid argument let me say that I've seen a hell of a lot of coaches in Philly in my lifetime an he is at the top of the list with Mike Keenan (who never won a title in philly but still did an amazing job) - Billy Cunningham and Fred Shero were in my lifetime but really before i could judge them. To me those 2 guys (Keenan and Reid) on the professional level are heads and shoulders above all the rest (although I think Peter Laviolette will be joining those 2 soon, love him as a coach). Charlie Manual won a title and he is a moron so take winning a title with a grain of salt.
that's it. that is all bill belichek ever did.
:roll:
never said that was all he did - just trying to make the point that circumstances for coaches differ so hard to say because A did this that he is necessarily greater than B. Yes I think Bellichek is a great coach but he did get fn lucky as hell that Tom Brady is one of the greatest QBs of all time and basically fell in his lap. Hell at least give Andy Reid credit for Drafting a long term damn good to great QB in McNabb over guys like Akili Smith and Cade McNown who people loved going into that draft - not to mention the Ricky Williams morons. My point is trying to say X is or is not a great coach because he hasn't won one extra game to me is a bit or a reach since circumstances are different for each coach and organization.
In closing on the Andy Reid argument let me say that I've seen a hell of a lot of coaches in Philly in my lifetime an he is at the top of the list with Mike Keenan (who never won a title in philly but still did an amazing job) - Billy Cunningham and Fred Shero were in my lifetime but really before i could judge them. To me those 2 guys (Keenan and Reid) on the professional level are heads and shoulders above all the rest (although I think Peter Laviolette will be joining those 2 soon, love him as a coach). Charlie Manual won a title and he is a moron so take winning a title with a grain of salt.
don't get why it bothers you so much that i consider him a good coach and not a great one. i've seen the same coaches over the last 30 years in philly and i agree he's one of the best. doesn't make him great though.
we went through the exercise. among coaches who have not won super bowls he's most comparable to levy and reeves. but both of them are 4-0 in championship games. reid is 1-4. case closed until reid finds a way over the hump.
that's it. that is all bill belichek ever did.
:roll:
never said that was all he did - just trying to make the point that circumstances for coaches differ so hard to say because A did this that he is necessarily greater than B. Yes I think Bellichek is a great coach but he did get fn lucky as hell that Tom Brady is one of the greatest QBs of all time and basically fell in his lap. Hell at least give Andy Reid credit for Drafting a long term damn good to great QB in McNabb over guys like Akili Smith and Cade McNown who people loved going into that draft - not to mention the Ricky Williams morons. My point is trying to say X is or is not a great coach because he hasn't won one extra game to me is a bit or a reach since circumstances are different for each coach and organization.
In closing on the Andy Reid argument let me say that I've seen a hell of a lot of coaches in Philly in my lifetime an he is at the top of the list with Mike Keenan (who never won a title in philly but still did an amazing job) - Billy Cunningham and Fred Shero were in my lifetime but really before i could judge them. To me those 2 guys (Keenan and Reid) on the professional level are heads and shoulders above all the rest (although I think Peter Laviolette will be joining those 2 soon, love him as a coach). Charlie Manual won a title and he is a moron so take winning a title with a grain of salt.
don't get why it bothers you so much that i consider him a good coach and not a great one. i've seen the same coaches over the last 30 years in philly and i agree he's one of the best. doesn't make him great though.
we went through the exercise. among coaches who have not won super bowls he's most comparable to levy and reeves. but both of them are 4-0 in championship games. reid is 1-4. case closed until reid finds a way over the hump.
doensn't bother me, you are entitled to your wrong opinion (ha ha) - just having a good sports argument is all. isn't that one of the fun things about sports - arguing about it at least rationally. I think these few pages on the Reid topic have at least been rational discussions unlike some of the phillies threads. I think there have been some good rational points made over these pages from both sides don't you think? good healthly discussion so far.
don't get why it bothers you so much that i consider him a good coach and not a great one. i've seen the same coaches over the last 30 years in philly and i agree he's one of the best. doesn't make him great though.
we went through the exercise. among coaches who have not won super bowls he's most comparable to levy and reeves. but both of them are 4-0 in championship games. reid is 1-4. case closed until reid finds a way over the hump.
doensn't bother me, you are entitled to your wrong opinion (ha ha) - just having a good sports argument is all. isn't that one of the fun things about sports - arguing about it at least rationally. I think these few pages on the Reid topic have at least been rational discussions unlike some of the phillies threads. I think there have been some good rational points made over these pages from both sides don't you think? good healthly discussion so far.
absolutely agree - need to win the division to have a legitimate shot of getting to the super bowl - and never thought i'd say that this year with this defense but the NFC sucks right now other than the giants. losing to a Redskins team that is one bad loss from imploding (boy is shanahan coming across as dick these days or what?) for the 2nd time would be a disaster. Gotta win this week and hopefully can split with the Giants. one at a time though, win this week and keep the weapons healthly as possible.
that's it. that is all bill belichek ever did.
:roll:
never said that was all he did - just trying to make the point that circumstances for coaches differ so hard to say because A did this that he is necessarily greater than B. Yes I think Bellichek is a great coach but he did get fn lucky as hell that Tom Brady is one of the greatest QBs of all time and basically fell in his lap. Hell at least give Andy Reid credit for Drafting a long term damn good to great QB in McNabb over guys like Akili Smith and Cade McNown who people loved going into that draft - not to mention the Ricky Williams morons. My point is trying to say X is or is not a great coach because he hasn't won one extra game to me is a bit or a reach since circumstances are different for each coach and organization.
In closing on the Andy Reid argument let me say that I've seen a hell of a lot of coaches in Philly in my lifetime an he is at the top of the list with Mike Keenan (who never won a title in philly but still did an amazing job) - Billy Cunningham and Fred Shero were in my lifetime but really before i could judge them. To me those 2 guys (Keenan and Reid) on the professional level are heads and shoulders above all the rest (although I think Peter Laviolette will be joining those 2 soon, love him as a coach). Charlie Manual won a title and he is a moron so take winning a title with a grain of salt.
don't get why it bothers you so much that i consider him a good coach and not a great one. i've seen the same coaches over the last 30 years in philly and i agree he's one of the best. doesn't make him great though.
we went through the exercise. among coaches who have not won super bowls he's most comparable to levy and reeves. but both of them are 4-0 in championship games. reid is 1-4. case closed until reid finds a way over the hump.
reid has won in the playoffs. I don't see how him winning one more game (the SB) turns him from good to great. the dude is a great coach. I think this year might be his best coaching job yet. Looks like this team is gonna find a way to win 10 games. yet again.
he's the most underappreciated figure in philly sports history. philly fans keep ripping him and he keeps winning games
absolutely agree - need to win the division to have a legitimate shot of getting to the super bowl - and never thought i'd say that this year with this defense but the NFC sucks right now other than the giants. losing to a Redskins team that is one bad loss from imploding (boy is shanahan coming across as dick these days or what?) for the 2nd time would be a disaster. Gotta win this week and hopefully can split with the Giants. one at a time though, win this week and keep the weapons healthly as possible.
shanahan blows
mcnabb blows
redskins blow
eagles are going to win by 20 points on monday.
it still looks funny seeing eagles fans talk about the super bowl this year. they aren't that good...luckily the NFC is a cesspool
don't get why it bothers you so much that i consider him a good coach and not a great one. i've seen the same coaches over the last 30 years in philly and i agree he's one of the best. doesn't make him great though.
we went through the exercise. among coaches who have not won super bowls he's most comparable to levy and reeves. but both of them are 4-0 in championship games. reid is 1-4. case closed until reid finds a way over the hump.
reid has won in the playoffs. I don't see how him winning one more game (the SB) turns him from good to great. the dude is a great coach. I think this year might be his best coaching job yet. Looks like this team is gonna find a way to win 10 games. yet again.
he's the most underappreciated figure in philly sports history. philly fans keep ripping him and he keeps winning games
calling him good, not great, is not ripping him. it is referring to him honestly, objectively, and accurately.
calling him good, not great, is not ripping him. it is referring to him honestly, objectively, and accurately.
go.
birds.
wasn't accusing you of ripping...just speaking in general terms of the moron eagles fan base. I bet if you polled eagles fans more would choose to have buddy ryan as the current coach
calling him good, not great, is not ripping him. it is referring to him honestly, objectively, and accurately.
go.
birds.
wasn't accusing you of ripping...just speaking in general terms of the moron eagles fan base. I bet if you polled eagles fans more would choose to have buddy ryan as the current coach
no i don't believe that to be true. more people may say they enjoyed that era better. but, yes, you are an idiot if you think buddy ryan was a better head coach than reid. buddy was defensive genious who revolutionized the game on that side of the football....but as a head coach.....that conversation is moronic.
according to you, though, the entire philadelphia fanbase is moronic. eagles fans, phillies fans, etc etc etc...so who knows?
calling him good, not great, is not ripping him. it is referring to him honestly, objectively, and accurately.
go.
birds.
wasn't accusing you of ripping...just speaking in general terms of the moron eagles fan base. I bet if you polled eagles fans more would choose to have buddy ryan as the current coach
no i don't believe that to be true. more people may say they enjoyed that era better. but, yes, you are an idiot if you think buddy ryan was a better head coach than reid. buddy was defensive genious who revolutionized the game on that side of the football....but as a head coach.....that conversation is moronic.
according to you, though, the entire philadelphia fanbase is moronic. eagles fans, phillies fans, etc etc etc...so who knows?
yet a good portion of the fan base wants him fired and someone else brought in. yet they fail to realize short of paying someone $10 million a year there is very little chance your next hire would be a better coach than Reid. We've had this discussion on here before when the fire Reid and Reid sucks faction comes out of the woodwork and no one ever comes up with a true viable candidate to replace him.
and not to agree with Fixer too much but at least 90% of the Eagles fan base is utterly moronic.
no i don't believe that to be true. more people may say they enjoyed that era better. but, yes, you are an idiot if you think buddy ryan was a better head coach than reid. buddy was defensive genious who revolutionized the game on that side of the football....but as a head coach.....that conversation is moronic.
according to you, though, the entire philadelphia fanbase is moronic. eagles fans, phillies fans, etc etc etc...so who knows?
yet a good portion of the fan base wants him fired and someone else brought in. yet they fail to realize short of paying someone $10 million a year there is very little chance your next hire would be a better coach than Reid. We've had this discussion on here before when the fire Reid and Reid sucks faction comes out of the woodwork and no one ever comes up with a true viable candidate to replace him.
and not to agree with Fixer too much but at least 90% of the Eagles fan base is utterly moronic.
hypothetical question for you: how much longer are you willing to give andy reid? this team, we all seem to be in agreement on, appears to be moving in the right direction. but let's say we have 3 more years of playoffs but no championship. let's say they make it to another championship game and lose again. that will be 15 seasons in and no championshp to show for it. are you going to continue the status quo at that point too?
I just hate the argument of "would you rather have a competitive team or a team that wins a Super Bowl and isn't competitive for another 20 years." I hate this argument I hear a lot because, A) OF COURSE I would pick the Super Bowl teaml; it's stupid because I don't believe in gypsies or psychics or genies, so no one can guarantee me anything. Only probability is guaranteed, and if your competitive, the greater the probability of winning will be.
Comments
John Gruden, Mike Ditka, Joe Gibbs(just as good without Theisman), Bill Parcells, Marty Shottenheimer.....I could probably keep going.
My point is Belicheck has more to thank Brady for his accolades as opposed to the other way around.
Majority of those coaches had stud defenses...Marty-ball never won crap'ola
I agree the Pats fell into shit with Brady ...but without Talent on both sides of the ball no teams win
Just having a great QB doesn't gurantee you a SB run
The ONLY thing better than a glass of beer is tea with Miss McGill
A protuberance of flesh above the waistband of a tight pair of trousers
Marty had Bernie and kid out in SD
Parcells did win one with the Hoss
again their D was stellar.....Taylor,Banks,Marshall,Pepper Johnson
The ONLY thing better than a glass of beer is tea with Miss McGill
A protuberance of flesh above the waistband of a tight pair of trousers
Yeah, Parcells who still won without Simms with Jeff friggin Hostetler at the gun, and Vinny Testaverde with the Jets.
And don't give Bernie Kosar that much credit. And he won a shit ton of games in KC with Steve Deberg, a washed up Montana, and Elvis Grbac.
Are we considering good coaches just coaches that won games and not Super Bowl's ?
Matt Cassel count in NE ?
The ONLY thing better than a glass of beer is tea with Miss McGill
A protuberance of flesh above the waistband of a tight pair of trousers
You said good to great. And I would say upon the notion that they've won a lot of games, and may have won a Super Bowl. That'd be consistent with good to great. Cassel I'll give you, but one season without Brady doesn't tell me anything. Especially when Moss wanted to play, and therefore made Welker a better receiver and so on. The latter years of the Pats have been built upon their reputation of those three Super Bowl wins. Drafting Tom Brady was the equivalent of winning the lottery. Extremely lucky.
his '03 team lead the league in points allowed per game at 14.9......14.9!
the '04 team was 2nd with 16.3 ppg.
the '01 team was 6th with 17 ppg
can't believe i have to defend bill belichick here...
those team's won with their defense as much as they did on the other side of the ball.
how have their latter years been based on reputation? they were in the super bowl 3 years ago. 2 years ago brady was out for the season and they still won 10 games. last year they were back in the playoffs. they'll be back again this year. and they have about 50 draft picks next april. do you expect them to win the super bowl every year?
never said that was all he did - just trying to make the point that circumstances for coaches differ so hard to say because A did this that he is necessarily greater than B. Yes I think Bellichek is a great coach but he did get fn lucky as hell that Tom Brady is one of the greatest QBs of all time and basically fell in his lap. Hell at least give Andy Reid credit for Drafting a long term damn good to great QB in McNabb over guys like Akili Smith and Cade McNown who people loved going into that draft - not to mention the Ricky Williams morons. My point is trying to say X is or is not a great coach because he hasn't won one extra game to me is a bit or a reach since circumstances are different for each coach and organization.
In closing on the Andy Reid argument let me say that I've seen a hell of a lot of coaches in Philly in my lifetime an he is at the top of the list with Mike Keenan (who never won a title in philly but still did an amazing job) - Billy Cunningham and Fred Shero were in my lifetime but really before i could judge them. To me those 2 guys (Keenan and Reid) on the professional level are heads and shoulders above all the rest (although I think Peter Laviolette will be joining those 2 soon, love him as a coach). Charlie Manual won a title and he is a moron so take winning a title with a grain of salt.
don't get why it bothers you so much that i consider him a good coach and not a great one. i've seen the same coaches over the last 30 years in philly and i agree he's one of the best. doesn't make him great though.
we went through the exercise. among coaches who have not won super bowls he's most comparable to levy and reeves. but both of them are 4-0 in championship games. reid is 1-4. case closed until reid finds a way over the hump.
doensn't bother me, you are entitled to your wrong opinion (ha ha) - just having a good sports argument is all. isn't that one of the fun things about sports - arguing about it at least rationally. I think these few pages on the Reid topic have at least been rational discussions unlike some of the phillies threads. I think there have been some good rational points made over these pages from both sides don't you think? good healthly discussion so far.
must win on monday. must win...
absolutely agree - need to win the division to have a legitimate shot of getting to the super bowl - and never thought i'd say that this year with this defense but the NFC sucks right now other than the giants. losing to a Redskins team that is one bad loss from imploding (boy is shanahan coming across as dick these days or what?) for the 2nd time would be a disaster. Gotta win this week and hopefully can split with the Giants. one at a time though, win this week and keep the weapons healthly as possible.
reid has won in the playoffs. I don't see how him winning one more game (the SB) turns him from good to great. the dude is a great coach. I think this year might be his best coaching job yet. Looks like this team is gonna find a way to win 10 games. yet again.
he's the most underappreciated figure in philly sports history. philly fans keep ripping him and he keeps winning games
shanahan blows
mcnabb blows
redskins blow
eagles are going to win by 20 points on monday.
it still looks funny seeing eagles fans talk about the super bowl this year. they aren't that good...luckily the NFC is a cesspool
calling him good, not great, is not ripping him. it is referring to him honestly, objectively, and accurately.
go.
birds.
wasn't accusing you of ripping...just speaking in general terms of the moron eagles fan base. I bet if you polled eagles fans more would choose to have buddy ryan as the current coach
no i don't believe that to be true. more people may say they enjoyed that era better. but, yes, you are an idiot if you think buddy ryan was a better head coach than reid. buddy was defensive genious who revolutionized the game on that side of the football....but as a head coach.....that conversation is moronic.
according to you, though, the entire philadelphia fanbase is moronic. eagles fans, phillies fans, etc etc etc...so who knows?
yet a good portion of the fan base wants him fired and someone else brought in. yet they fail to realize short of paying someone $10 million a year there is very little chance your next hire would be a better coach than Reid. We've had this discussion on here before when the fire Reid and Reid sucks faction comes out of the woodwork and no one ever comes up with a true viable candidate to replace him.
and not to agree with Fixer too much but at least 90% of the Eagles fan base is utterly moronic.
yep, that's accurate. philly fans have their reputation for a reason...it's not a huge conspiracy against the city
This is true, but nationally it's spearheaded by the media and what they choose to show - as the likes of WIP. The louder the better ratings.
This shit goes on everywhere.
I refuse to listen to any of the local sports talk radio. I'd rather be forced to listen to shitty music like dave matthews band
Well, these are the people who mostly call into the radio station. And this is what gets to the national media the most.
Actually, I don't know what would move someone to call into a radio station. Pretty insane.
The only thing more insane is posting on a message board maybe.... :think:
haha...well played
hypothetical question for you: how much longer are you willing to give andy reid? this team, we all seem to be in agreement on, appears to be moving in the right direction. but let's say we have 3 more years of playoffs but no championship. let's say they make it to another championship game and lose again. that will be 15 seasons in and no championshp to show for it. are you going to continue the status quo at that point too?
exactly.
like pjhawks said, what are the chances of his replacement doing a better job? I'd say less than 10%