It's not unbelievable but it is unprovable, illogical and contradictory to reason at just about every level. There is no way to get to "God exists" without stepping over logic or making an exception somewhere. So, believe anything you want but just stop trying to rationalize it.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win ."
True you didnt choose. You were born into it as your nature. Pretty powerful fiction if you ask me. As a child you couldn't choose not to be jealous when another child took your toy, you just were.
No offense, but this is a pretty weak argument. I can't help being jealous as a kid when another kid steals my toy because jealousy is human nature. Thinking that a single human being thousands of years ago ate an apple that a snake baited him into eating, which in turn doomed the rest of humanity until the end of time into an existence of sin and repentance. I am simply astounded that anyone would actually still believe this. It seems so obviously fictitious and archaic.
Any “God” that would be so evil as to surround his precious being with temptations and then not let the creature indulge in them is not a God I want to meet in the afterlife anyway. What an absolutely cruel concept. Add to that the fact that I want no part in a God that would only allow certain believers in and not others, and yet let them make up their owns minds in the hopes that they are right because there is no true way to know.
Life is freewill. Freewill has no omnipresent deity. It can’t happen.
Bright eyed kid: "Wow Typo Man, you're the best!"
Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
Well... from reading through this, i have learned several things:
God likes to fuck with us. I mean, He created us to bring joy to Him... like we are nothing more than pets to Him. Don't get me wrong, I love my pets... nothing wrong with love. But, i don't expcet them to love me back and punish them if they don't. That would make me... well, kind of an asshole if I did that, doncha think?
I also learned that 'Some Christians' get to choose which Christians are 'Real Christians'. That most Christians don't get it... and they won't get to know the truth. only the ones that see life through their own eyes seem to be able to tell.
Another thing I learned... in order to learn... we have to be punished... or go through suffering. i don't know about that... last time I remember.... learning was difficult, but it did not involve lashes of the whip or the suffering pain of losing a loved one to heart failure. Yet, God doles these thing out on a regular basis because He want to teach us. In fact, if you close your eyes and concentrate... you may hear God utter the words, "I am going to teach you a lesson"... then, gives us cancer of the dick.
And miracles. What fucking miracles? Miracles like Capt. Sullivan landing that jet in the Hudson? If God didn't shove that goose into the port engine... there wouldn't have been a need for that landing. And even when He did... give Capt. Sullivan some credit. His lifelong experience in flying... the thousands of flight hours under his belt, the trainning he recieves on a continual basis for all sorts of scenarios, his knowledge of the flight characteristics of the airliner and his knowledge of georgaphy all may have been the contributing factors. Miracle? Nope. Science, knowledge, logic.
Then there's Usama Bin Laden. Evil. But, according to who? Of course he is evil... he is not one of us. But try to think of it from the other side of the gun. He could be portrayed as their David to our Goliath, couldn't he. If the Bible was still open to be written to... how would those authors portray us? All depends on whether the authors are on their side or our, right? The same could be said for Hitler (a devout Catholic) who believed he was carrying out God's will by ridding the whole of Europe of the 'Jewish scourge'. and according to Christian belief... if he accepted Jesus as his personal savior and asked forgivness for his sins... he (Hitler) is in Heaven... while the 6 million jews, gypsies, slavs, russians, non-aryan that were murdered by his policies are cast into the lake of fire. How does that work?
**
NOTE TO ASSHOLES: I am NOT endorsing, commending or sympathetic to Usama Bin Laden, al qeada or The Taliban. I am just trying to make a point that there are always two sides to a story... listening to only one side will NOT get you to the Truth. So, in a pre-emptive move I am saying, "Fuck you and put your head up your ass" if you are going to try that Usama lover busllshit on me.
**
Finally... the truth. I have found that anyone who claims to know the truth (other than those truths found in places, such as mathematics) is either ignorant... or a liar. They may believe they know the truth... but, they don't. Theirs is a relative truth, not the one and only absolute truth.
...
Well, here's a relative truth... my relative truth. I believe religion in not a conduit between me and God... it is a barrier between us. A barrier that is built with doctrinre and dogma of 1400 years of political power grabs within the corridors of power. I prescribe to no religion because no religion believes in me. i'm on my own out here... but, you know... i'm doing just fine.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
In one hand you ask why someone is only critical of Christianity, yet follow your comment with a comment warranting that kind of response. There's been thousands of religions throughout the history of the world, and if a persons' stance is to believe theirs' is the right way and everyone has that decision to make and think on their own, so be it and leave it at that, but don't be so brazen to say yours is a proven, more right or somehow the only way. For me personally, this is why I hate religion, because it is not kept to thy-self, it's spoken as fact or knowledge when it is nothing of the sort. I can believe pink unicorns walk the earth today and say I wholeheartedly belive this and anyone who doesn't is wrong. If you disagree, you can't 100% disprove my statement, but we both know from science, fact and knowledge, that it is in fact untrue. And that's religion compared to science. I can't sit here and say 100% that a god/creator doesn't exist although we have plenty of fact and science to disprove that one does.. perhaps it's close to proven, but not 100%. But you can't prove any percent that your particular religion or thought is fact other than that it is what you believe things to be.
What about Muslims, Hindus and so on? What about about what they teach? Can you stand them?
Some people have no problem bashing Christians or denying Jesus, it's a shame. I feel sorry for you.
There is only one way and thats throught Jesus.
[/quote]
That factual science is the same as the factual science that believed the world to be flat or that everything revolved around the earth. Its only what man has been so lucky enough to prove up to this point. One puting their faith in that is just as silly as me putting my faith in the intangible. Thousands of years from now if God came down and said I am the way the the truth and life in human form, again for that matter, people would still not be able to believe. The truth is what we cant see and cant prove.[/quote]
There is no 100% factual science. There are just leading theories of the time such as "the earth is flat" or the "big bang theory". These, and all theories can be thrown out or modified when better ideas or testable information comes along or is discovered. Science doesn't claim to have all the answers pinned down for all time. It is the search for answers based on evidence and all hypotheses, theories and experiments should be open to ultimate scrutiny and criticism. A real scientist should welcome this criticism and be the head criticizer of his own work.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win ."
True you didnt choose. You were born into it as your nature. Pretty powerful fiction if you ask me. As a child you couldn't choose not to be jealous when another child took your toy, you just were.
No offense, but this is a pretty weak argument. I can't help being jealous as a kid when another kid steals my toy because jealousy is human nature. Thinking that a single human being thousands of years ago ate an apple that a snake baited him into eating, which in turn doomed the rest of humanity until the end of time into an existence of sin and repentance. I am simply astounded that anyone would actually still believe this. It seems so obviously fictitious and archaic.
Any “God” that would be so evil as to surround his precious being with temptations and then not let the creature indulge in them is not a God I want to meet in the afterlife anyway. What an absolutely cruel concept. Add to that the fact that I want no part in a God that would only allow certain believers in and not others, and yet let them make up their owns minds in the hopes that they are right because there is no true way to know.
Life is freewill. Freewill has no omnipresent deity. It can’t happen.
You know maybe that wasnt the way it went down. Maybe it was put in that perspective because our weak lower being human minds cant even begin to grasp the vastness of God. Thats not for me to decided. It wasnt one mans fault it was all men. We are all the same in nature. Sinful. Maybe your sin isnt as bad as Osama but you still are sinful and cant help being sinful at times.
Again God didnt create evil. It existed along side God. The balance, the ying and yang. Thats why there was the barrier of protection in "the Garden". Dinosaurs, earthquakes, tornados, cancer death and destruction plagued the world around them but God loved his NEW creation. All those other things existed long before man came correct? He gave man free will. The snake represents temptation and free will. The tree of life is the knowlage of this evil that God didnt want us to have. Like LSD is opening doors to things humans arent supposed to know because it blows our weak little human minds.
Well... from reading through this, i have learned several things:
God likes to fuck with us. I mean, He created us to bring joy to Him... like we are nothing more than pets to Him. Don't get me wrong, I love my pets... nothing wrong with love. But, i don't expcet them to love me back and punish them if they don't. That would make me... well, kind of an asshole if I did that, doncha think?
How do you get that out of what I'm saying? He didnt create evil. It already exists, not by his creation, and he is an all powerful parent that wants to nurture you and make you learn from our own sinful nature by showing us what the world is like when we are in charge. So when your dog pisses all over your house you dont disciplen them. Man I dont want to come to your house either. Equate that to God and his house.
I also learned that 'Some Christians' get to choose which Christians are 'Real Christians'. That most Christians don't get it... and they won't get to know the truth. only the ones that see life through their own eyes seem to be able to tell.
I'm not choosing which are wrong or right, merely stating that there are some who have it wrong and lead others astray because of the way they live their lives. Judging and pointing out others faults when they dont see their own faults in that. I know from experience, these are the types of people that pushed me away from God. I only stated this to warn of these people so you dont base your judgement of God soley on them which is what a lot of people do.
Another thing I learned... in order to learn... we have to be punished... or go through suffering. i don't know about that... last time I remember.... learning was difficult, but it did not involve lashes of the whip or the suffering pain of losing a loved one to heart failure. Yet, God doles these thing out on a regular basis because He want to teach us. In fact, if you close your eyes and concentrate... you may hear God utter the words, "I am going to teach you a lesson"... then, gives us cancer of the dick.
Back to your dog. In order for your dog not to piss and shit all over your house you just let him continue to do it I'm guessing. Your kid steals something from a store and you just turn your head because he doesnt need to be punished to learn that he cant steal. Do you hear how rediculous that sounds? "For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord" (Romans 6:23).
And miracles. What fucking miracles? Miracles like Capt. Sullivan landing that jet in the Hudson? If God didn't shove that goose into the port engine... there wouldn't have been a need for that landing. And even when He did... give Capt. Sullivan some credit. His lifelong experience in flying... the thousands of flight hours under his belt, the trainning he recieves on a continual basis for all sorts of scenarios, his knowledge of the flight characteristics of the airliner and his knowledge of georgaphy all may have been the contributing factors. Miracle? Nope. Science, knowledge, logic.
Miracles like a man walking on water. Rasing the dead. The 7 plagues of Moses. Casting out demons. God didnt want man in the natural world where that goose would fly into the engine. He wanted us in the security of the garden but he also wanted us to decide if we wanted to be there with him. Just like he now wants you to decide if you want to be born again in spirit for all eternity when you part. You think the world has beauty in it. Look at the heavens. What do you think those other galaxies and creations are? Satan is the ruler of this world if you are pissed about the way it is take it up with him.
Then there's Usama Bin Laden. Evil. But, according to who? Of course he is evil... he is not one of us. But try to think of it from the other side of the gun. He could be portrayed as their David to our Goliath, couldn't he. If the Bible was still open to be written to... how would those authors portray us? All depends on whether the authors are on their side or our, right? The same could be said for Hitler (a devout Catholic) who believed he was carrying out God's will by ridding the whole of Europe of the 'Jewish scourge'. and according to Christian belief... if he accepted Jesus as his personal savior and asked forgivness for his sins... he (Hitler) is in Heaven... while the 6 million jews, gypsies, slavs, russians, non-aryan that were murdered by his policies are cast into the lake of fire. How does that work?
**
If you knew the teachings of Jesus you would know that HE is the only way to the Father. By accepting him. So the god that Osama follows is Satan. A tool of satan used to tempt people away from god. Into believing the lie just as he did when he tempted us humans into believing that we should know about this knowlege that god posseses in the tree of knowlage.
Finally... the truth. I have found that anyone who claims to know the truth (other than those truths found in places, such as mathematics) is either ignorant... or a liar. They may believe they know the truth... but, they don't. Theirs is a relative truth, not the one and only absolute truth.
...
Well, here's a relative truth... my relative truth. I believe religion in not a conduit between me and God... it is a barrier between us. A barrier that is built with doctrinre and dogma of 1400 years of political power grabs within the corridors of power. I prescribe to no religion because no religion believes in me. i'm on my own out here... but, you know... i'm doing just fine
This world will fade and pass, god never does. He is outside of time because time is a human invention. Thats why he knows what happened and will happen and can play off it. The thing he cant and wont do is make you believe and follow him. Its only up to you. So your truth is fading. It will fade with the swipe of a finger and the falling of an asteriod. Religion isnt a conduit. Jesus is. Man named the follow of Christ a religion. Man is a failure weak being compared to eternity and the vastness of the universe. So by you're belief we are a speck of dust stuck to a rock floating through space/time. You arent doing just fine. Happieness fades and there is only suffering for you forever if you fail to recognize God. Thats all he wants. A little freaking acknowlagement every once and a while for giving you this life.
The same could be said for Hitler (a devout Catholic) who believed he was carrying out God's will by ridding the whole of Europe of the 'Jewish scourge'. and according to Christian belief... if he accepted Jesus as his personal savior and asked forgivness for his sins... he (Hitler) is in Heaven... while the 6 million jews, gypsies, slavs, russians, non-aryan that were murdered by his policies are cast into the lake of fire. How does that work?
Hitler wasnt a devout catholic he was a devout meth head. You and I have no idea why that happened we cant. Its just as unexplainable as the beginning of the universe. It does remind me of, in Exodus, the Jews wondering through the desert for 40 years suffering after Moses extracted them from Pharaohs grips. They were made to wander and suffer all those years because they still failed to acknowlage Gods work in their lives and they couldnt yet receive the promised land because they werent ready. What happened when they began to except the law? They ransacked all of the most protected cities at the time in Israel and received Gods promise. Do the Jews still not acknowlage Jesus as the one true saviour? Thats just speculation on my part so dont take my word for it.
We suffer here a little while. A blink compared to eternity. If you heed Gods laws and accept Christs sacrifice you too can receive Gods promised land and no longer be under the power of Satan and sin.
dying for a cause speaking soley of Jesus an the apostles who were crucifiied and beheaded in such. Seemed like a certian father of lies was doing his best to snuff out christianity
ok, yes, in that instance, I think that Jesus was a great man (or the best con-artist the world has ever seen, either way, kudos to you, JC!).
when I read "dying for a cause", my back went up against the wall. When I read that sentence these days, I generally think of the word extremist.
No man could endure that pain without breaking or admitting to lying... unless of course that man was part God who stepped down from his perfect thrown to endure pain and suffering because he loved his creation.
um, I'm pretty sure there have been several people over the years that have stayed silent in order to further their cause, no matter what the pain. Many have suffered more than Jesus could have ever dreamed. He was on the cross 3 paltry days. People have been tortured without mercy for decades.
The crucifixion was a cakewalk.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Miracles like a man walking on water. Rasing the dead. The 7 plagues of Moses. Casting out demons. God didnt want man in the natural world where that goose would fly into the engine. He wanted us in the security of the garden but he also wanted us to decide if we wanted to be there with him. Just like he now wants you to decide if you want to be born again in spirit for all eternity when you part. You think the world has beauty in it. Look at the heavens. What do you think those other galaxies and creations are? Satan is the ruler of this world if you are pissed about the way it is take it up with him.
you speak of these events like you saw them with your own eyes. you admit in other posts that people take the bible too literally. is it not possible that all of the above are also metaphors for something explainable, something not so miraculous?
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
It's not a mental backup to cause some feeling it's faith in knowing that there is a devout plan if you submit your will to God. Those truths begin to manifest in your life when you do open yourself to the concept.
Personally I try not to go on feelings because emotions are bodily, I focus on the spiritual.
I can't see my families spirits so no I don't believe I will see them when I die. That's not what comforts the saved.
The only thing I claim to see that you can't is the truth to the lie that the devil birthed at the fall of man. The existance of God and his plan. Evil existed in the world before the fall of man. Why do you think god had his creation in a garden? What would be the purpose of secluding his creation in a garden?
I don't think anyone here is claiming that evil existed after the fall of man. I don't believe evil, as a black-hatted supreme being, exists anymore than I believe god exists. Man is evil. Man created evil. the struggle between good and evil exists within us, our imperfect, puny little minds. Not in heaven or in hell. No such thing.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Where is the promise land located exactly? Also, it is your hope and faith that tells you these things, yet there's no actual proof of such. No one has come back from death and said, "heaven/hell is great/awful". These are all concepts that men made up and wrote about (whether its from a god or not) and men followed there after.
I can sit here and accept the fact that the science of how everything began and everything that's occured since is still a work in progress and there's still some holes to fill in, but the tons we have found to be fact and correct, which is an overwhelming, is ridiculous to deny. The only "proof" a religious person can atest too is their faith in such... which is no different from me describing why I like my favorite sports team or color. There's no proof, science, fact or anything similar behind that.
We suffer here a little while. A blink compared to eternity. If you heed Gods laws and accept Christs sacrifice you too can receive Gods promised land and no longer be under the power of Satan and sin.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
He created perfect beings... We became imperfect when we chose to sin. In a loving way I ask that you'd please just seek the full teachings of Christ before you decide to disbeleive them
I did. I was like you many years ago. I spoke like you, I sounded just like you. But then I thought for myself and asked questions. The funny thing is people like you ADMIT to being a sheep in a flock.
Why not be your own shepherd for once?
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Well... from reading through this, i have learned several things:
God likes to fuck with us. I mean, He created us to bring joy to Him... like we are nothing more than pets to Him. Don't get me wrong, I love my pets... nothing wrong with love. But, i don't expcet them to love me back and punish them if they don't. That would make me... well, kind of an asshole if I did that, doncha think?
I also learned that 'Some Christians' get to choose which Christians are 'Real Christians'. That most Christians don't get it... and they won't get to know the truth. only the ones that see life through their own eyes seem to be able to tell.
Another thing I learned... in order to learn... we have to be punished... or go through suffering. i don't know about that... last time I remember.... learning was difficult, but it did not involve lashes of the whip or the suffering pain of losing a loved one to heart failure. Yet, God doles these thing out on a regular basis because He want to teach us. In fact, if you close your eyes and concentrate... you may hear God utter the words, "I am going to teach you a lesson"... then, gives us cancer of the dick.
And miracles. What fucking miracles? Miracles like Capt. Sullivan landing that jet in the Hudson? If God didn't shove that goose into the port engine... there wouldn't have been a need for that landing. And even when He did... give Capt. Sullivan some credit. His lifelong experience in flying... the thousands of flight hours under his belt, the trainning he recieves on a continual basis for all sorts of scenarios, his knowledge of the flight characteristics of the airliner and his knowledge of georgaphy all may have been the contributing factors. Miracle? Nope. Science, knowledge, logic.
Then there's Usama Bin Laden. Evil. But, according to who? Of course he is evil... he is not one of us. But try to think of it from the other side of the gun. He could be portrayed as their David to our Goliath, couldn't he. If the Bible was still open to be written to... how would those authors portray us? All depends on whether the authors are on their side or our, right? The same could be said for Hitler (a devout Catholic) who believed he was carrying out God's will by ridding the whole of Europe of the 'Jewish scourge'. and according to Christian belief... if he accepted Jesus as his personal savior and asked forgivness for his sins... he (Hitler) is in Heaven... while the 6 million jews, gypsies, slavs, russians, non-aryan that were murdered by his policies are cast into the lake of fire. How does that work?
**
NOTE TO ASSHOLES: I am NOT endorsing, commending or sympathetic to Usama Bin Laden, al qeada or The Taliban. I am just trying to make a point that there are always two sides to a story... listening to only one side will NOT get you to the Truth. So, in a pre-emptive move I am saying, "Fuck you and put your head up your ass" if you are going to try that Usama lover busllshit on me.
**
Finally... the truth. I have found that anyone who claims to know the truth (other than those truths found in places, such as mathematics) is either ignorant... or a liar. They may believe they know the truth... but, they don't. Theirs is a relative truth, not the one and only absolute truth.
...
Well, here's a relative truth... my relative truth. I believe religion in not a conduit between me and God... it is a barrier between us. A barrier that is built with doctrinre and dogma of 1400 years of political power grabs within the corridors of power. I prescribe to no religion because no religion believes in me. i'm on my own out here... but, you know... i'm doing just fine.
I have also used that bin Laden example before in my arguments against Islam-haters. And I have also been, um....crucified for it and been called a terrorist sympathizer. So I feel ya. When it all really depends, as you said, which side you're on. He's a hero to many, and I don't agree with it, obviously, the man is evil, but I can see why.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
The same could be said for Hitler (a devout Catholic) who believed he was carrying out God's will by ridding the whole of Europe of the 'Jewish scourge'. and according to Christian belief... if he accepted Jesus as his personal savior and asked forgivness for his sins... he (Hitler) is in Heaven... while the 6 million jews, gypsies, slavs, russians, non-aryan that were murdered by his policies are cast into the lake of fire. How does that work?
Hitler wasnt a devout catholic he was a devout meth head. You and I have no idea why that happened we cant. Its just as unexplainable as the beginning of the universe. It does remind me of, in Exodus, the Jews wondering through the desert for 40 years suffering after Moses extracted them from Pharaohs grips. They were made to wander and suffer all those years because they still failed to acknowlage Gods work in their lives and they couldnt yet receive the promised land because they werent ready. What happened when they began to except the law? They ransacked all of the most protected cities at the time in Israel and received Gods promise. Do the Jews still not acknowlage Jesus as the one true saviour? Thats just speculation on my part so dont take my word for it.
We suffer here a little while. A blink compared to eternity. If you heed Gods laws and accept Christs sacrifice you too can receive Gods promised land and no longer be under the power of Satan and sin.
so, all the jews suffering over the ages has been their own fault, then? because they won't accept jesus as their saviour? wow, that's a pretty nasty statement, and a pretty big jerk of a god you follow.
so you honestly believe that because I don't follow your belief system, that I'm under the spell of some red guy with horns who lives in a cave and waves a trident? is that really what you believe?
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
The same could be said for Hitler (a devout Catholic) who believed he was carrying out God's will by ridding the whole of Europe of the 'Jewish scourge'. and according to Christian belief... if he accepted Jesus as his personal savior and asked forgivness for his sins... he (Hitler) is in Heaven... while the 6 million jews, gypsies, slavs, russians, non-aryan that were murdered by his policies are cast into the lake of fire. How does that work?
Hitler wasnt a devout catholic he was a devout meth head. You and I have no idea why that happened we cant. Its just as unexplainable as the beginning of the universe. It does remind me of, in Exodus, the Jews wondering through the desert for 40 years suffering after Moses extracted them from Pharaohs grips. They were made to wander and suffer all those years because they still failed to acknowlage Gods work in their lives and they couldnt yet receive the promised land because they werent ready. What happened when they began to except the law? They ransacked all of the most protected cities at the time in Israel and received Gods promise. Do the Jews still not acknowlage Jesus as the one true saviour? Thats just speculation on my part so dont take my word for it.
We suffer here a little while. A blink compared to eternity. If you heed Gods laws and accept Christs sacrifice you too can receive Gods promised land and no longer be under the power of Satan and sin.
so, all the jews suffering over the ages has been their own fault, then? because they won't accept jesus as their saviour? wow, that's a pretty nasty statement, and a pretty big jerk of a god you follow.
so you honestly believe that because I don't follow your belief system, that I'm under the spell of some red guy with horns who lives in a cave and waves a trident? is that really what you believe?
Just like our suffering here on earth is our own fault. Our sinful natures fault.
The devil created that image of himself to be a nastly little guy with red horns and a trident to make it easier for your mind to not believe what he really is.
Its not my belief system. Its Gods. I follow God.
Check out C.S. Lewis' "The Screwtape Letters". Its a great read whether you believe what a believe or not. Its fiction but it paints a pretty real picture of Satan.
He created perfect beings... We became imperfect when we chose to sin. In a loving way I ask that you'd please just seek the full teachings of Christ before you decide to disbeleive them
I did. I was like you many years ago. I spoke like you, I sounded just like you. But then I thought for myself and asked questions. The funny thing is people like you ADMIT to being a sheep in a flock.
Why not be your own shepherd for once?
I constantly say Satan and refer to the devil because thats what we know him as but he is a real entity just like God is. Somewhere down the road the devil convinced you into believing that the self or "you" was more important than God. He won the battle. If you really believed the teachings you would have been prepared for this battle of the mind and will. Satan always uses the self as his greatest argument. Focus on the ME the MY the I. I deserve that promotion, i deserve to think for myself. When the fact is we are lower forms of life. We must acknowlage this. Remove ourselves in humbleness to God and others. Satan plays our emotions because he knows us just as well as God.
Satan has the easy role. He can tempt you to sin therefore furthering you from God. Its so easy for us to give into that because it is our nature. God cant make you not sin because he is just. He can guide you through recognization of beauty, wholeness and goodness but he cant make you not sin. You have to decide for yourself.
No man could endure that pain without breaking or admitting to lying... unless of course that man was part God who stepped down from his perfect thrown to endure pain and suffering because he loved his creation.
um, I'm pretty sure there have been several people over the years that have stayed silent in order to further their cause, no matter what the pain. Many have suffered more than Jesus could have ever dreamed. He was on the cross 3 paltry days. People have been tortured without mercy for decades.
The crucifixion was a cakewalk.[/quote]
This is an ignorant statement. Cursed by his own people, unbelief and doubted by his own earthly family until the ressurection, tormented, tortured naked in front of people, beaten. A crown of thorns jabbed into his skull crucified and left to drown in his own fluids and he did that without any guilt or sin. FOR YOU. Then for centuries have people like you curse everything he did.
Miracles like a man walking on water. Rasing the dead. The 7 plagues of Moses. Casting out demons. God didnt want man in the natural world where that goose would fly into the engine. He wanted us in the security of the garden but he also wanted us to decide if we wanted to be there with him. Just like he now wants you to decide if you want to be born again in spirit for all eternity when you part. You think the world has beauty in it. Look at the heavens. What do you think those other galaxies and creations are? Satan is the ruler of this world if you are pissed about the way it is take it up with him.
you speak of these events like you saw them with your own eyes. you admit in other posts that people take the bible too literally. is it not possible that all of the above are also metaphors for something explainable, something not so miraculous?
No these my friend were eyewitness accounts written and recorded. The guys that did write all these things were beheaded, crucified upside down and in numerous other terrible ways were put to death because of what they testified. So you hear a guy talking on the news about how he saw his trailor lifted up in the air by a tornado and you say nah. Hes a liar. Thats not true.
Because I see the world around me: through holes in science, evil, subjective experience with Gods work, and faith that I am a lesser being put here for a purpose. Lesser than my master with the staff to protect and voice to guide me to safety. I dont listen to the plea's of the devil (selfish temptation) telling me to stray away from the herd to find water at a drinking hole that is better than where my master will lead me. Only to be devoured by the wolves because I am separate from my master who will protect me.
I think for myself but I think in a way where I do my best to let God control my actions and journey. Do his will.
I deserve that promotion, i deserve to think for myself. When the fact is we are lower forms of life. We must acknowlage this. Remove ourselves in humbleness to God and others. Satan plays our emotions because he knows us just as well as God.
So god deserves that promotion at work I have been busting my ass for? God got my Masters degree? God took seminars to learn the latest technologies? God reads up on new trends and products to make sure my team is cutting edge? Just as much as it pisses me off when ball players first thank Jesus for winning the championship, this is just ridiculous in my mind. Jesus didn't practice for hours a day, years on end. YOU did, and damnit you deserve to feel good about the win without sounding all humble. You busted your ass and luckily got on a winning team: good for you! Enjoy it, just as I am enjoying my career and what I have built it up to at this point. I decided to go back to grad school to better myself. The only guidance I needed was myself, and a little bit of encouragement from my family, friends, and a few key managers.
You view this life as a small step in our existence. I view this life as the only step. I'm not going to deny myself enjoyment in this life in the hopes that eternity will reward me.
Bright eyed kid: "Wow Typo Man, you're the best!"
Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
I deserve that promotion, i deserve to think for myself. When the fact is we are lower forms of life. We must acknowlage this. Remove ourselves in humbleness to God and others. Satan plays our emotions because he knows us just as well as God.
So god deserves that promotion at work I have been busting my ass for? God got my Masters degree? God took seminars to learn the latest technologies? God reads up on new trends and products to make sure my team is cutting edge? Just as much as it pisses me off when ball players first thank Jesus for winning the championship, this is just ridiculous in my mind. Jesus didn't practice for hours a day, years on end. YOU did, and damnit you deserve to feel good about the win without sounding all humble. You busted your ass and luckily got on a winning team: good for you! Enjoy it, just as I am enjoying my career and what I have built it up to at this point. I decided to go back to grad school to better myself. The only guidance I needed was myself, and a little bit of encouragement from my family, friends, and a few key managers.
You view this life as a small step in our existence. I view this life as the only step. I'm not going to deny myself enjoyment in this life in the hopes that eternity will reward me.
No I used that as an example of how the devil uses jealousy to tempt us to sin.
God wants us to flourish and be successful the humbleness factor comes in when we thank him for the opportunity to be successfull. For life and our gifts and ability to attain these things and create just as he does.
I'm sorry you view life that way but take the cosmos for example. When a star dies and explodes that energy is recycled back into the universe. I'm sorry but whether you think it or not this life is not all your spirit will experience.
Alright, I'm bowing out of this thread. Anyone else who wants to continue: have fun. I could not be more different than this guy and I don't feel the need to get all worked up anymore. I think we're getting to the point where it has gone beyond a good natured debate and has turned perhaps a little nasty. It is hard for me to remain cool in threads like this, and I don't want to piss off anyone, let alone the mods.
Enjoy the debate, everyone. I'll still be stopping by and reading.
Bright eyed kid: "Wow Typo Man, you're the best!"
Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
No man could endure that pain without breaking or admitting to lying... unless of course that man was part God who stepped down from his perfect thrown to endure pain and suffering because he loved his creation.
um, I'm pretty sure there have been several people over the years that have stayed silent in order to further their cause, no matter what the pain. Many have suffered more than Jesus could have ever dreamed. He was on the cross 3 paltry days. People have been tortured without mercy for decades.
The crucifixion was a cakewalk.
This is an ignorant statement. Cursed by his own people, unbelief and doubted by his own earthly family until the ressurection, tormented, tortured naked in front of people, beaten. A crown of thorns jabbed into his skull crucified and left to drown in his own fluids and he did that without any guilt or sin. FOR YOU. Then for centuries have people like you curse everything he did.[/quote]
no, actually, it's not. you may not agree with it, but it's not ignorant. people have suffered way worse things than Christ did. many innocent people, also without guilt or sin. to make the last statement that you did is actually the ignorant one. I said a few pages ago that I believe he was a real man, and I thought he was a great man.
who curses what christ did?
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Alright, I'm bowing out of this thread. Anyone else who wants to continue: have fun. I could not be more different than this guy and I don't feel the need to get all worked up anymore. I think we're getting to the point where it has gone beyond a good natured debate and has turned perhaps a little nasty. It is hard for me to remain cool in threads like this, and I don't want to piss off anyone, let alone the mods.
Enjoy the debate, everyone. I'll still be stopping by and reading.
Your nature knows the truth. This is why you defy it so. I never sensed anything you said as nasty so I hope you dont think it that way on my part. Merely discussing two different beliefs. Like I said I respect where you are coming from because I like you used to disbelieve and oppose God.
No man could endure that pain without breaking or admitting to lying... unless of course that man was part God who stepped down from his perfect thrown to endure pain and suffering because he loved his creation.
um, I'm pretty sure there have been several people over the years that have stayed silent in order to further their cause, no matter what the pain. Many have suffered more than Jesus could have ever dreamed. He was on the cross 3 paltry days. People have been tortured without mercy for decades.
The crucifixion was a cakewalk.
no, actually, it's not. you may not agree with it, but it's not ignorant. people have suffered way worse things than Christ did. many innocent people, also without guilt or sin. to make the last statement that you did is actually the ignorant one. I said a few pages ago that I believe he was a real man, and I thought he was a great man.
who curses what christ did?
Thats not true. No man is without sin but Christ. He was man, but God in human form. I get the idea of a trinity is hard to grasp, just like God is. Read the works of Thallus pertaining to the events that transpired immediatley after Christ's death.
Alright, I'm bowing out of this thread. Anyone else who wants to continue: have fun. I could not be more different than this guy and I don't feel the need to get all worked up anymore. I think we're getting to the point where it has gone beyond a good natured debate and has turned perhaps a little nasty. It is hard for me to remain cool in threads like this, and I don't want to piss off anyone, let alone the mods.
Enjoy the debate, everyone. I'll still be stopping by and reading.
Your nature knows the truth. This is why you defy it so. I never sensed anything you said as nasty so I hope you dont think it that way on my part. Merely discussing two different beliefs. Like I said I respect where you are coming from because I like you used to disbelieve and oppose God.
people who respect other's beliefs don't talk down to them like they are all-knowing and need to enlighten the rest.
what boggles my mind is that people like you don't see the irony in the way you try to spread your message: it actually TURNS PEOPLE OFF. telling people they need to be saved, that they have let the devil win, that you see something we don't, etc, is condescension at its worst. Jesus never tried to spread his message in this way (as far as what is written in your book, anyway). And he would be ashamed of all that do.
I, personally, can understand your belief system. I can understand why people have needed that sort of comfort to get through life. I personally don't need that. I am happy, for you to tell people that they aren't truly happy without bowing before your god is insulting.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Thats not true. No man is without sin but Christ. He was man, but God in human form. I get the idea of a trinity is hard to grasp, just like God is. Read the works of Thallus pertaining to the events that transpired immediatley after Christ's death.
ok, fine, they weren't without sin. my point is some people are tortured for years and/or killed without being guilty of the crime they were accused of. that's much worse than a 3 day torture session that jesus endured.
the idea of the trinity is hard to grasp because it makes no sense. the church can't even explain it.
"I thought JC was the son of god?"
"he is, my son"
"but the bible says he IS god"
"he is, my son"
"how can someone be the son of themself?"
"he just is, my son"
"and he's also a ghost?"
"he is, my son"
"how?"
"he is, my son"
"??????"
That's how everything illogical about religion is explained. It all comes back to "you must have faith that the lord will provide that answer". Hogwash.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
If we are to believe that god is some being or figure of creation, and created the world and everything in it, where did god come from? Seems like a rather arbitrary question, yet very overlooked. Any answer?
there is no answer. it's the same old bs. I once asked this of the mother of a friend of mine, and it's the same old song and dance:
"where did god come from?"
"he's always been there"
"but when did he get there?"
"he's always been there"
"but you have to arrive at some point in time"
"he's always been there"
It's like she was programmed, and she actually believed what she was saying, without realizing how illogical it is. The answer always comes back to "you will find the answer in christ". No you won't. There is no answer.
At least scientists admit they can't explain where the universe started, what it's contained in, etc. It boggles the mind, and we can admit that. I have never met a christian like this guy who can admit that it's possible it doesn't exist. It's ridiculous.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Alright, I'm bowing out of this thread. Anyone else who wants to continue: have fun. I could not be more different than this guy and I don't feel the need to get all worked up anymore. I think we're getting to the point where it has gone beyond a good natured debate and has turned perhaps a little nasty. It is hard for me to remain cool in threads like this, and I don't want to piss off anyone, let alone the mods.
Enjoy the debate, everyone. I'll still be stopping by and reading.
Your nature knows the truth. This is why you defy it so. I never sensed anything you said as nasty so I hope you dont think it that way on my part. Merely discussing two different beliefs. Like I said I respect where you are coming from because I like you used to disbelieve and oppose God.
people who respect other's beliefs don't talk down to them like they are all-knowing and need to enlighten the rest.
what boggles my mind is that people like you don't see the irony in the way you try to spread your message: it actually TURNS PEOPLE OFF. telling people they need to be saved, that they have let the devil win, that you see something we don't, etc, is condescension at its worst. Jesus never tried to spread his message in this way (as far as what is written in your book, anyway). And he would be ashamed of all that do.
I, personally, can understand your belief system. I can understand why people have needed that sort of comfort to get through life. I personally don't need that. I am happy, for you to tell people that they aren't truly happy without bowing before your god is insulting.
Jesus didnt have tell people this because he lived a sinless life. You see how he witnessed by his message and the life he led. He did in fact say that no one may know the father without coming through him. Accepting his sacrifice and being washed in his blood.
You're assuming on me to things that I dont think of you. I'm merely sharing what I've learned. I dont claim to know everything but I am asking God to tell me what to write. These thoughts are flowing freely. I am a faulty man and I probably did lose some things in translation. Dont take my word for anything! I just want to bring the matter to light. We are all these things that I'm saying. I've learned a lot through this, and several things I didnt know as a result of having this discussion with all of you. It only seems like I'm talking down to you. Im just sharing what God told us. It is in no way my or any other persons fault if you take offense to it.
That is satan in your ear!
Please read "The Screwtape Letters" Give me your address and I will buy it for you Johnny. You can see where I am coming from on this satan fellow.
Comments
It's not unbelievable but it is unprovable, illogical and contradictory to reason at just about every level. There is no way to get to "God exists" without stepping over logic or making an exception somewhere. So, believe anything you want but just stop trying to rationalize it.
"With our thoughts we make the world"
No offense, but this is a pretty weak argument. I can't help being jealous as a kid when another kid steals my toy because jealousy is human nature. Thinking that a single human being thousands of years ago ate an apple that a snake baited him into eating, which in turn doomed the rest of humanity until the end of time into an existence of sin and repentance. I am simply astounded that anyone would actually still believe this. It seems so obviously fictitious and archaic.
Any “God” that would be so evil as to surround his precious being with temptations and then not let the creature indulge in them is not a God I want to meet in the afterlife anyway. What an absolutely cruel concept. Add to that the fact that I want no part in a God that would only allow certain believers in and not others, and yet let them make up their owns minds in the hopes that they are right because there is no true way to know.
Life is freewill. Freewill has no omnipresent deity. It can’t happen.
Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
God likes to fuck with us. I mean, He created us to bring joy to Him... like we are nothing more than pets to Him. Don't get me wrong, I love my pets... nothing wrong with love. But, i don't expcet them to love me back and punish them if they don't. That would make me... well, kind of an asshole if I did that, doncha think?
I also learned that 'Some Christians' get to choose which Christians are 'Real Christians'. That most Christians don't get it... and they won't get to know the truth. only the ones that see life through their own eyes seem to be able to tell.
Another thing I learned... in order to learn... we have to be punished... or go through suffering. i don't know about that... last time I remember.... learning was difficult, but it did not involve lashes of the whip or the suffering pain of losing a loved one to heart failure. Yet, God doles these thing out on a regular basis because He want to teach us. In fact, if you close your eyes and concentrate... you may hear God utter the words, "I am going to teach you a lesson"... then, gives us cancer of the dick.
And miracles. What fucking miracles? Miracles like Capt. Sullivan landing that jet in the Hudson? If God didn't shove that goose into the port engine... there wouldn't have been a need for that landing. And even when He did... give Capt. Sullivan some credit. His lifelong experience in flying... the thousands of flight hours under his belt, the trainning he recieves on a continual basis for all sorts of scenarios, his knowledge of the flight characteristics of the airliner and his knowledge of georgaphy all may have been the contributing factors. Miracle? Nope. Science, knowledge, logic.
Then there's Usama Bin Laden. Evil. But, according to who? Of course he is evil... he is not one of us. But try to think of it from the other side of the gun. He could be portrayed as their David to our Goliath, couldn't he. If the Bible was still open to be written to... how would those authors portray us? All depends on whether the authors are on their side or our, right? The same could be said for Hitler (a devout Catholic) who believed he was carrying out God's will by ridding the whole of Europe of the 'Jewish scourge'. and according to Christian belief... if he accepted Jesus as his personal savior and asked forgivness for his sins... he (Hitler) is in Heaven... while the 6 million jews, gypsies, slavs, russians, non-aryan that were murdered by his policies are cast into the lake of fire. How does that work?
**
NOTE TO ASSHOLES: I am NOT endorsing, commending or sympathetic to Usama Bin Laden, al qeada or The Taliban. I am just trying to make a point that there are always two sides to a story... listening to only one side will NOT get you to the Truth. So, in a pre-emptive move I am saying, "Fuck you and put your head up your ass" if you are going to try that Usama lover busllshit on me.
**
Finally... the truth. I have found that anyone who claims to know the truth (other than those truths found in places, such as mathematics) is either ignorant... or a liar. They may believe they know the truth... but, they don't. Theirs is a relative truth, not the one and only absolute truth.
...
Well, here's a relative truth... my relative truth. I believe religion in not a conduit between me and God... it is a barrier between us. A barrier that is built with doctrinre and dogma of 1400 years of political power grabs within the corridors of power. I prescribe to no religion because no religion believes in me. i'm on my own out here... but, you know... i'm doing just fine.
Hail, Hail!!!
That factual science is the same as the factual science that believed the world to be flat or that everything revolved around the earth. Its only what man has been so lucky enough to prove up to this point. One puting their faith in that is just as silly as me putting my faith in the intangible. Thousands of years from now if God came down and said I am the way the the truth and life in human form, again for that matter, people would still not be able to believe. The truth is what we cant see and cant prove.[/quote]
There is no 100% factual science. There are just leading theories of the time such as "the earth is flat" or the "big bang theory". These, and all theories can be thrown out or modified when better ideas or testable information comes along or is discovered. Science doesn't claim to have all the answers pinned down for all time. It is the search for answers based on evidence and all hypotheses, theories and experiments should be open to ultimate scrutiny and criticism. A real scientist should welcome this criticism and be the head criticizer of his own work.
"With our thoughts we make the world"
You know maybe that wasnt the way it went down. Maybe it was put in that perspective because our weak lower being human minds cant even begin to grasp the vastness of God. Thats not for me to decided. It wasnt one mans fault it was all men. We are all the same in nature. Sinful. Maybe your sin isnt as bad as Osama but you still are sinful and cant help being sinful at times.
Again God didnt create evil. It existed along side God. The balance, the ying and yang. Thats why there was the barrier of protection in "the Garden". Dinosaurs, earthquakes, tornados, cancer death and destruction plagued the world around them but God loved his NEW creation. All those other things existed long before man came correct? He gave man free will. The snake represents temptation and free will. The tree of life is the knowlage of this evil that God didnt want us to have. Like LSD is opening doors to things humans arent supposed to know because it blows our weak little human minds.
Miracles like a man walking on water. Rasing the dead. The 7 plagues of Moses. Casting out demons. God didnt want man in the natural world where that goose would fly into the engine. He wanted us in the security of the garden but he also wanted us to decide if we wanted to be there with him. Just like he now wants you to decide if you want to be born again in spirit for all eternity when you part. You think the world has beauty in it. Look at the heavens. What do you think those other galaxies and creations are? Satan is the ruler of this world if you are pissed about the way it is take it up with him.
If you knew the teachings of Jesus you would know that HE is the only way to the Father. By accepting him. So the god that Osama follows is Satan. A tool of satan used to tempt people away from god. Into believing the lie just as he did when he tempted us humans into believing that we should know about this knowlege that god posseses in the tree of knowlage.
This world will fade and pass, god never does. He is outside of time because time is a human invention. Thats why he knows what happened and will happen and can play off it. The thing he cant and wont do is make you believe and follow him. Its only up to you. So your truth is fading. It will fade with the swipe of a finger and the falling of an asteriod. Religion isnt a conduit. Jesus is. Man named the follow of Christ a religion. Man is a failure weak being compared to eternity and the vastness of the universe. So by you're belief we are a speck of dust stuck to a rock floating through space/time. You arent doing just fine. Happieness fades and there is only suffering for you forever if you fail to recognize God. Thats all he wants. A little freaking acknowlagement every once and a while for giving you this life.
Hitler wasnt a devout catholic he was a devout meth head. You and I have no idea why that happened we cant. Its just as unexplainable as the beginning of the universe. It does remind me of, in Exodus, the Jews wondering through the desert for 40 years suffering after Moses extracted them from Pharaohs grips. They were made to wander and suffer all those years because they still failed to acknowlage Gods work in their lives and they couldnt yet receive the promised land because they werent ready. What happened when they began to except the law? They ransacked all of the most protected cities at the time in Israel and received Gods promise. Do the Jews still not acknowlage Jesus as the one true saviour? Thats just speculation on my part so dont take my word for it.
We suffer here a little while. A blink compared to eternity. If you heed Gods laws and accept Christs sacrifice you too can receive Gods promised land and no longer be under the power of Satan and sin.
um, I'm pretty sure there have been several people over the years that have stayed silent in order to further their cause, no matter what the pain. Many have suffered more than Jesus could have ever dreamed. He was on the cross 3 paltry days. People have been tortured without mercy for decades.
The crucifixion was a cakewalk.
Fargo 2003
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Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
you speak of these events like you saw them with your own eyes. you admit in other posts that people take the bible too literally. is it not possible that all of the above are also metaphors for something explainable, something not so miraculous?
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I don't think anyone here is claiming that evil existed after the fall of man. I don't believe evil, as a black-hatted supreme being, exists anymore than I believe god exists. Man is evil. Man created evil. the struggle between good and evil exists within us, our imperfect, puny little minds. Not in heaven or in hell. No such thing.
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I can sit here and accept the fact that the science of how everything began and everything that's occured since is still a work in progress and there's still some holes to fill in, but the tons we have found to be fact and correct, which is an overwhelming, is ridiculous to deny. The only "proof" a religious person can atest too is their faith in such... which is no different from me describing why I like my favorite sports team or color. There's no proof, science, fact or anything similar behind that.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
I did. I was like you many years ago. I spoke like you, I sounded just like you. But then I thought for myself and asked questions. The funny thing is people like you ADMIT to being a sheep in a flock.
Why not be your own shepherd for once?
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I have also used that bin Laden example before in my arguments against Islam-haters. And I have also been, um....crucified for it and been called a terrorist sympathizer. So I feel ya. When it all really depends, as you said, which side you're on. He's a hero to many, and I don't agree with it, obviously, the man is evil, but I can see why.
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so, all the jews suffering over the ages has been their own fault, then? because they won't accept jesus as their saviour? wow, that's a pretty nasty statement, and a pretty big jerk of a god you follow.
so you honestly believe that because I don't follow your belief system, that I'm under the spell of some red guy with horns who lives in a cave and waves a trident? is that really what you believe?
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Just like our suffering here on earth is our own fault. Our sinful natures fault.
The devil created that image of himself to be a nastly little guy with red horns and a trident to make it easier for your mind to not believe what he really is.
Its not my belief system. Its Gods. I follow God.
Check out C.S. Lewis' "The Screwtape Letters". Its a great read whether you believe what a believe or not. Its fiction but it paints a pretty real picture of Satan.
I constantly say Satan and refer to the devil because thats what we know him as but he is a real entity just like God is. Somewhere down the road the devil convinced you into believing that the self or "you" was more important than God. He won the battle. If you really believed the teachings you would have been prepared for this battle of the mind and will. Satan always uses the self as his greatest argument. Focus on the ME the MY the I. I deserve that promotion, i deserve to think for myself. When the fact is we are lower forms of life. We must acknowlage this. Remove ourselves in humbleness to God and others. Satan plays our emotions because he knows us just as well as God.
Satan has the easy role. He can tempt you to sin therefore furthering you from God. Its so easy for us to give into that because it is our nature. God cant make you not sin because he is just. He can guide you through recognization of beauty, wholeness and goodness but he cant make you not sin. You have to decide for yourself.
um, I'm pretty sure there have been several people over the years that have stayed silent in order to further their cause, no matter what the pain. Many have suffered more than Jesus could have ever dreamed. He was on the cross 3 paltry days. People have been tortured without mercy for decades.
The crucifixion was a cakewalk.[/quote]
This is an ignorant statement. Cursed by his own people, unbelief and doubted by his own earthly family until the ressurection, tormented, tortured naked in front of people, beaten. A crown of thorns jabbed into his skull crucified and left to drown in his own fluids and he did that without any guilt or sin. FOR YOU. Then for centuries have people like you curse everything he did.
No these my friend were eyewitness accounts written and recorded. The guys that did write all these things were beheaded, crucified upside down and in numerous other terrible ways were put to death because of what they testified. So you hear a guy talking on the news about how he saw his trailor lifted up in the air by a tornado and you say nah. Hes a liar. Thats not true.
Because I see the world around me: through holes in science, evil, subjective experience with Gods work, and faith that I am a lesser being put here for a purpose. Lesser than my master with the staff to protect and voice to guide me to safety. I dont listen to the plea's of the devil (selfish temptation) telling me to stray away from the herd to find water at a drinking hole that is better than where my master will lead me. Only to be devoured by the wolves because I am separate from my master who will protect me.
I think for myself but I think in a way where I do my best to let God control my actions and journey. Do his will.
So god deserves that promotion at work I have been busting my ass for? God got my Masters degree? God took seminars to learn the latest technologies? God reads up on new trends and products to make sure my team is cutting edge? Just as much as it pisses me off when ball players first thank Jesus for winning the championship, this is just ridiculous in my mind. Jesus didn't practice for hours a day, years on end. YOU did, and damnit you deserve to feel good about the win without sounding all humble. You busted your ass and luckily got on a winning team: good for you! Enjoy it, just as I am enjoying my career and what I have built it up to at this point. I decided to go back to grad school to better myself. The only guidance I needed was myself, and a little bit of encouragement from my family, friends, and a few key managers.
You view this life as a small step in our existence. I view this life as the only step. I'm not going to deny myself enjoyment in this life in the hopes that eternity will reward me.
Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
No I used that as an example of how the devil uses jealousy to tempt us to sin.
God wants us to flourish and be successful the humbleness factor comes in when we thank him for the opportunity to be successfull. For life and our gifts and ability to attain these things and create just as he does.
I'm sorry you view life that way but take the cosmos for example. When a star dies and explodes that energy is recycled back into the universe. I'm sorry but whether you think it or not this life is not all your spirit will experience.
Alright, I'm bowing out of this thread. Anyone else who wants to continue: have fun. I could not be more different than this guy and I don't feel the need to get all worked up anymore. I think we're getting to the point where it has gone beyond a good natured debate and has turned perhaps a little nasty. It is hard for me to remain cool in threads like this, and I don't want to piss off anyone, let alone the mods.
Enjoy the debate, everyone. I'll still be stopping by and reading.
Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
This is an ignorant statement. Cursed by his own people, unbelief and doubted by his own earthly family until the ressurection, tormented, tortured naked in front of people, beaten. A crown of thorns jabbed into his skull crucified and left to drown in his own fluids and he did that without any guilt or sin. FOR YOU. Then for centuries have people like you curse everything he did.[/quote]
no, actually, it's not. you may not agree with it, but it's not ignorant. people have suffered way worse things than Christ did. many innocent people, also without guilt or sin. to make the last statement that you did is actually the ignorant one. I said a few pages ago that I believe he was a real man, and I thought he was a great man.
who curses what christ did?
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Your nature knows the truth. This is why you defy it so. I never sensed anything you said as nasty so I hope you dont think it that way on my part. Merely discussing two different beliefs. Like I said I respect where you are coming from because I like you used to disbelieve and oppose God.
Thats not true. No man is without sin but Christ. He was man, but God in human form. I get the idea of a trinity is hard to grasp, just like God is. Read the works of Thallus pertaining to the events that transpired immediatley after Christ's death.
people who respect other's beliefs don't talk down to them like they are all-knowing and need to enlighten the rest.
what boggles my mind is that people like you don't see the irony in the way you try to spread your message: it actually TURNS PEOPLE OFF. telling people they need to be saved, that they have let the devil win, that you see something we don't, etc, is condescension at its worst. Jesus never tried to spread his message in this way (as far as what is written in your book, anyway). And he would be ashamed of all that do.
I, personally, can understand your belief system. I can understand why people have needed that sort of comfort to get through life. I personally don't need that. I am happy, for you to tell people that they aren't truly happy without bowing before your god is insulting.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
ok, fine, they weren't without sin. my point is some people are tortured for years and/or killed without being guilty of the crime they were accused of. that's much worse than a 3 day torture session that jesus endured.
the idea of the trinity is hard to grasp because it makes no sense. the church can't even explain it.
"I thought JC was the son of god?"
"he is, my son"
"but the bible says he IS god"
"he is, my son"
"how can someone be the son of themself?"
"he just is, my son"
"and he's also a ghost?"
"he is, my son"
"how?"
"he is, my son"
"??????"
That's how everything illogical about religion is explained. It all comes back to "you must have faith that the lord will provide that answer". Hogwash.
Fargo 2003
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St. Paul 2014
there is no answer. it's the same old bs. I once asked this of the mother of a friend of mine, and it's the same old song and dance:
"where did god come from?"
"he's always been there"
"but when did he get there?"
"he's always been there"
"but you have to arrive at some point in time"
"he's always been there"
It's like she was programmed, and she actually believed what she was saying, without realizing how illogical it is. The answer always comes back to "you will find the answer in christ". No you won't. There is no answer.
At least scientists admit they can't explain where the universe started, what it's contained in, etc. It boggles the mind, and we can admit that. I have never met a christian like this guy who can admit that it's possible it doesn't exist. It's ridiculous.
Fargo 2003
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Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Jesus didnt have tell people this because he lived a sinless life. You see how he witnessed by his message and the life he led. He did in fact say that no one may know the father without coming through him. Accepting his sacrifice and being washed in his blood.
You're assuming on me to things that I dont think of you. I'm merely sharing what I've learned. I dont claim to know everything but I am asking God to tell me what to write. These thoughts are flowing freely. I am a faulty man and I probably did lose some things in translation. Dont take my word for anything! I just want to bring the matter to light. We are all these things that I'm saying. I've learned a lot through this, and several things I didnt know as a result of having this discussion with all of you. It only seems like I'm talking down to you. Im just sharing what God told us. It is in no way my or any other persons fault if you take offense to it.
That is satan in your ear!
Please read "The Screwtape Letters" Give me your address and I will buy it for you Johnny. You can see where I am coming from on this satan fellow.