God... Christ... The Bible

haffajappa

Pepe Silvia wrote:

i asked this same thing when i went to sunday school. supposedly god knows us before we are ever born and knows everything we will ever do, and if god creates us then why create someone he KNOWS will do bad things??

my question was directed more at why does god allow kids to be molested and my teacher told me how do i know that by this 1 kid being molested it doesn't save 10 or even 100 kids from being molested?? when i asked why god needs to let ANY kids get molested i was told it is not our place to question god.... :roll:

Ugh. Or you either get the "god is testing us" answer.
Why can't people just accept the fact that we don't know all the questions in the universe? you can't just plug in God as the reason.
How'd the universe start? God made it.
Why did my grandfather get cancer? God is testing him.
Why can't penguins fly? God decided not to make them that way.

Maybe some things we JUST DON'T KNOW!
And then you're told not to question it...

supersonicyears

he still stands wrote:

Pepe Silvia wrote:

he still stands wrote:

my version of god is as follows: whatever "it" is cannot be explained by our little advanced-primate minds. Using words to describe god is like using a screwdriver to slice roast beef. "god" does not control people's actions or "evil"... people do. I think god is in everything... in you and me... in every living thing. god is the infinite, the timeless, the cosmic energy, the pleasure and pain, everything in some sense and NOTHING in some sense too. People have sensed a "presence" and all tribes and cultures have a different story to tell about god or gods... but most of the stories share a same message when broken down.

I also have a weird feeling that god is a prankster.

just my opinion, and I am probably (like 99.9999999%) wrong.

what i don't get is if god is supposedly everything how can god be a male? and i agree, we can't comprehend what 'it' is. i always thought religions were basically the same with the same overall messages with the difference coming from their different cultures.

i think it is ridiculous to think of "god" as a male. God is not an old man in the clouds... I don't think god has gender... if there is a god.

I don't know but I would be VERY surprised if I die and meet god at "pearly gates" and he is an old man.

Genesis 1 >>
King James Bible

---

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. 3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. 5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. 7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. 8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so. 10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good. 11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. 12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good. 13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.

14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: 15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. 16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. 17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, 18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. 19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven. 21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good. 22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth. 23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so. 25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. 28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. 29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. 30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so. 31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

---

Wilds

TheBeach wrote:

---

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. 3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. 5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. 7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. 8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so. 10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good. 11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. 12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good. 13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.

14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: 15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. 16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. 17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, 18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. 19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven. 21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good. 22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth. 23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so. 25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. 28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. 29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. 30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so. 31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

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Is this from the Onion?



Those guys are good.

Gern Blansten

the moon is a light?

silly silly god

Hugh Freaking Dillon

Gern Blansten wrote:

the moon is a light?

silly silly god

he still stands

TheBeach wrote:

Genesis 1 >>
King James Bible

---

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. 3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. 5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. 7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. 8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so. 10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good. 11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. 12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good. 13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.

14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: 15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. 16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. 17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, 18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. 19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven. 21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good. 22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth. 23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so. 25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. 28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. 29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. 30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so. 31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

---

This just supports my contention that when dogmas enter the brain, all intellectual activity ceases.

EddieLedBetter

haffajappa wrote:

like what I mean is, why worship something that apparently lets bad things happen to good people and good things happen to bad people? sounds like an asshole to me. but if he's all good then are all those things good? and if he's all powerful then how come he can't get rid of the bad? if the man can make an entire universe in 6 days how come he can't get rid of cancer in people?

you know, the old, can God make a soup so hot he can't eat it?

Its like a parent not being able to just let their kid get away with doing something wrong. Punishment and suffering are needed to see the fault in ones ways. He can and will get rid of the bad... someday.

Science shows that the making of the universe didnt take six days. How do you know how long a day is to God compared to us? He isnt a man he is a deity. Cancer is a result of the fallen world which goes back to the parent just letting the kid off the hook for disobedience. He didnt originally make us to live in this fallen world. We chose to have this.

Who knows what God actually is we are told to look at him as a Father just as a father looks at his created offspring. The love we are supposed to have for our children reflect his love for us. This is where "father" comes from.

OutOfBreath

EddieLedBetter wrote:

[Its like a parent not being able to just let their kid get away with doing something wrong. Punishment and suffering are needed to see the fault in ones ways. He can and will get rid of the bad... someday.

The parent/kid analogy doesnt work for one reason. Unlike parents God KNOWS exactly everything that will happen if he is really omniscient. If he isn't, than the analogy can make some sort of sense. But is he then God?

Science shows that the making of the universe didnt take six days. How do you know how long a day is to God compared to us? He isnt a man he is a deity. Cancer is a result of the fallen world which goes back to the parent just letting the kid off the hook for disobedience. He didnt originally make us to live in this fallen world. We chose to have this.

Or rather Eve apparently "decided" to have that. God made the punishment. He didn't outline beforehand other than "dont do that". The harshness of the punishment and for countless generations to come, well that's anger issues if you ask me. Or, this God image has it's roots in the hebrew paternalistic tradition where harsh heads of family ruled with an iron fist dishing out extreme punishment for disobedience to their elders... Obviously when God then is displeased he is MIGHTILY displeased, since he is the father of the fathers, the patriarch +1.

Who knows what God actually is we are told to look at him as a Father just as a father looks at his created offspring. The love we are supposed to have for our children reflect his love for us. This is where "father" comes from.

Again, unlike fathers he has full knowledge, and absolutely full power in determining events. Seeing as he knows how different people will act, why does he place them in situations where they will go against his will? There can't be any element of surprise for the one true god. Why then does he punish? Evrything does as he intends them to. Unless he isnt omnipotent after all.

This god-image does not at all correspond to what made the universe and everything. "God" must then be the underling of the real god. since he apparently can be surprised, things can happen against his will which he punishes after the fact. Punishment is the real example of essentially lack of power/control. You punish because there is nothing else you can do. As in the damage is done, you can't go back, but you can show your wrath as a deterrence for others who think of doing the same. When can god possibly have nothing left to do?

My conclusion is that the creating God is something different completely than the biblical one, or that God isn't all that he's made out to be lacking both omnipotence and omniscience. I prefer that God is something else.

Peace
Dan

haffajappa

EddieLedBetter wrote:

haffajappa wrote:

like what I mean is, why worship something that apparently lets bad things happen to good people and good things happen to bad people? sounds like an asshole to me. but if he's all good then are all those things good? and if he's all powerful then how come he can't get rid of the bad? if the man can make an entire universe in 6 days how come he can't get rid of cancer in people?

you know, the old, can God make a soup so hot he can't eat it?

Its like a parent not being able to just let their kid get away with doing something wrong. Punishment and suffering are needed to see the fault in ones ways. He can and will get rid of the bad... someday.

Science shows that the making of the universe didnt take six days. How do you know how long a day is to God compared to us? He isnt a man he is a deity. Cancer is a result of the fallen world which goes back to the parent just letting the kid off the hook for disobedience. He didnt originally make us to live in this fallen world. We chose to have this.

Who knows what God actually is we are told to look at him as a Father just as a father looks at his created offspring. The love we are supposed to have for our children reflect his love for us. This is where "father" comes from.

Ok so what about Haiti? They are a very religious country... what did the hundreds of thousands of people do to deserve "God"'s punishment?

Cosmo

Questions...
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
God created men and women and told them to be fruitful and multiply. So, what's the deal with Eve? Why was she created from Adam's rib?
...
And if God is perfect and know the beginning and the end and everything in between... why the heck did He place the Tree of the fruit of knowledge in the middle of Eden??? If the fruit was forbidden.. why did He make it... and moreover, why didn't He plant it in the middle of the amazon forrest, an ocean away from Eden?
This makes it sound like God just wants to fuck with us... so He can kick our asses. Sounds kind of like an asshole, to me.
I ain't buying it. I don't believe God is the prick the Bible paints Him as... He is better than that.

Cosmo

he still stands wrote:

This just supports my contention that when dogmas enter the brain, all intellectual activity ceases.

...
Or maybe the arguement is, 'See... it's right here in the Bible.' thinking you are going to respond with, 'Yes, it is. You are right... end of debate."

EddieLedBetter

haffajappa wrote:

Ok so what about Haiti? They are a very religious country... what did the hundreds of thousands of people do to deserve "God"'s punishment?

Earthquakes are natural occurrences that are necessary to the homeostasis of our planet. How about not focusing on the bad, or why or what? Dont overlook all the good that has come from this event. Awareness of hurting people, the reaching out of the world toward this country. Bad things happen in a fallen world. God uses the things that happen for his greater good.

Jesus was a very religious person and look what the world did to him. What did he do to deserve it?

EddieLedBetter

Cosmo wrote:

Questions...
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
God created men and women and told them to be fruitful and multiply. So, what's the deal with Eve? Why was she created from Adam's rib?
...
And if God is perfect and know the beginning and the end and everything in between... why the heck did He place the Tree of the fruit of knowledge in the middle of Eden??? If the fruit was forbidden.. why did He make it... and moreover, why didn't He plant it in the middle of the amazon forrest, an ocean away from Eden?
This makes it sound like God just wants to fuck with us... so He can kick our asses. Sounds kind of like an asshole, to me.
I ain't buying it. I don't believe God is the prick the Bible paints Him as... He is better than that.

God wants you to love and come to know him by free will. There is plenty of knowledge in the bible if one would open it to learn instead of to pick it apart and find flaws.

Cosmo

EddieLedBetter wrote:

Jesus was a very religious person and look what the world did to him. What did he do to deserve it?

...
Jesus questioned the interpretations being made by the established religion.

Cosmo

EddieLedBetter wrote:

Cosmo wrote:

Questions...
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
God created men and women and told them to be fruitful and multiply. So, what's the deal with Eve? Why was she created from Adam's rib?
...
And if God is perfect and know the beginning and the end and everything in between... why the heck did He place the Tree of the fruit of knowledge in the middle of Eden??? If the fruit was forbidden.. why did He make it... and moreover, why didn't He plant it in the middle of the amazon forrest, an ocean away from Eden?
This makes it sound like God just wants to fuck with us... so He can kick our asses. Sounds kind of like an asshole, to me.
I ain't buying it. I don't believe God is the prick the Bible paints Him as... He is better than that.

God wants you to love and come to know him by free will. There is plenty of knowledge in the bible if one would open it to learn instead of to pick it apart and find flaws.

...
God wants us to love Him... so, those 'God Fearing Christians'... what's the deal with them? You even said, yourself, "Its like a parent not being able to just let their kid get away with doing something wrong. Punishment and suffering are needed to see the fault in ones ways. He can and will get rid of the bad... someday."
God is to be feared... does that mean our fear of His punishment is what makes us behave?
...
Knowledge... or spiritality are found in the Bible? Give me some actual 'Knowledge' in the Bible? And actually... I am picking apart the so-called logical thinking used by those whom claim to know the truth for all.
...
P.S. Are you raising your kids with the constant threat of punishment and suffering if they do not obey you?

mysticweed

Simple - We are in the universe and the universe is in us. "God" is everwhere. The Bible is a whole other story. Emphasis on story. The Bible is a string of rules and legends written by old Hebrew men. As for Christ; to be Christian you have to believe in the virgin birth and the resurection. To believe in the teachings of Jesus Christ does not seem to matter.
"Vanity of vanities
The whole thing is a vain parade
It has no meaning . . ."

Gern Blansten

EddieLedBetter wrote:

haffajappa wrote:

like what I mean is, why worship something that apparently lets bad things happen to good people and good things happen to bad people? sounds like an asshole to me. but if he's all good then are all those things good? and if he's all powerful then how come he can't get rid of the bad? if the man can make an entire universe in 6 days how come he can't get rid of cancer in people?

you know, the old, can God make a soup so hot he can't eat it?

Its like a parent not being able to just let their kid get away with doing something wrong. Punishment and suffering are needed to see the fault in ones ways. He can and will get rid of the bad... someday.

Science shows that the making of the universe didnt take six days. How do you know how long a day is to God compared to us? He isnt a man he is a deity. Cancer is a result of the fallen world which goes back to the parent just letting the kid off the hook for disobedience. He didnt originally make us to live in this fallen world. We chose to have this.

Who knows what God actually is we are told to look at him as a Father just as a father looks at his created offspring. The love we are supposed to have for our children reflect his love for us. This is where "father" comes from.

he's a shitty father....lots of his children left unfed and unattended

haffajappa

Gern Blansten wrote:

he's a shitty father....lots of his children left unfed and unattended

good point, actually. if he were here in human form he'd be imprisoned for neglect.

and i don't believe in anyone who has to "kill" hundreds of thousands of people in an earthquake to show there is good in the world.

its called a natural disaster because thats what it was, a disaster caused by nature.

supersonicyears

lettinggo wrote:

Simple - We are in the universe and the universe is in us. "God" is everwhere. The Bible is a whole other story. Emphasis on story. The Bible is a string of rules and legends written by old Hebrew men. As for Christ; to be Christian you have to believe in the virgin birth and the resurection. To believe in the teachings of Jesus Christ does not seem to matter.
"Vanity of vanities
The whole thing is a vain parade
It has no meaning . . ."

The teachings of Jesus Christ are the only true word, because Jesus is God.
The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

lettinggo wrote:

The Bible is a whole other story. Emphasis on story. The Bible is a string of rules and legends written by old Hebrew men.

2 Peter 1:20-21
20Knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is any private interpretation,
21for prophecy never came by will of man, but Holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.

supersonicyears

haffajappa wrote:

Gern Blansten wrote:

he's a shitty father....lots of his children left unfed and unattended

good point, actually. if he were here in human form he'd be imprisoned for neglect.

and i don't believe in anyone who has to "kill" hundreds of thousands of people in an earthquake to show there is good in the world.

its called a natural disaster because thats what it was, a disaster caused by nature.

Blame Satan