God... Christ... The Bible

markin ball

Johnny Sitar wrote:

TheBeach wrote:

this isn't meant for you directly haffajappa. I just don't plan on spending anymore time on this thread.
I see the atheists on this board love to mock and attack.

I'm a Christian. I think for myself and have questioned my religion. I have always believed in God but have followed different paths in the past. When I really started looking at other religions and Christianity I came to the conclusion that Believing in God and knowing that the only way to God is through Jesus. It is the only way.

Maybe athiests need to start thinking outside the box instead of believing everthing just appeared out of nowhere for no reason. Then some theory will come along stating how it all began and then it will be found that it was inaccurate then another theory will form.
Please just take the time to look into it instead of mocking it.
Like I said before. It's up to you to have faith. God gives everyone free will. No one is telling you that you have to believe.

What's the worse thing that can happen to me if I'm wrong. I would die and nothing.
But if you die and you come face to face with God, well then.....................

I'm not mocking you at all. Never have. What you call mocking and attacking is what we call defense of condescension and arrogance. And I'm pretty sure atheists (and agnostics, like me) are the ones thinking outside the box. That would entail going against the grain of "truth" that has beaten into our heads for the last thousand years by the religious masses. Science is what is thinking outside the box. Constantly looking for new ideas and theories of how the earth came to be and evolved over time. How is that stagnant thinking? Religion stays inside the box, and won't ever leave. A book was written 2000 years ago and will never change. And that's FINE, if that's what you need in your life.

But your last point is what strikes me the most: it states to me that you don't truly believe in God or anything else, you have accepted him as a "just in case". I don't plan to live my life in fear of anything. That makes me truly free and happy.

"M.Y.T.H is belief in the game controls that keeps us in a box of fear..."

Gern Blansten

TheBeach wrote:

Maybe athiests need to start thinking outside the box instead of believing everthing just appeared out of nowhere for no reason. Then some theory will come along stating how it all began and then it will be found that it was inaccurate then another theory will form.
Please just take the time to look into it instead of mocking it.
Like I said before. It's up to you to have faith. God gives everyone free will. No one is telling you that you have to believe.

What's the worse thing that can happen to me if I'm wrong. I would die and nothing.
But if you die and you come face to face with God, well then.....................

excuse me but I think "the box" is faith. We do think outside "the box".

and yes, just like Johnny said...why live life in fear? I refuse to believe in a god that would require that of me.

You have offered your opinion above....that's all it is...just like I have offered my opinion

haffajappa

"There may not even be a God... so stop worrying and enjoy your life"
says a banner that hangs outside the university library...

its kind of true... theres one thing to have beliefs and another to use them to harm others or make yourself feel pressure.

keeponrockin

Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

EddieLedBetter

Gern Blansten wrote:

TheBeach wrote:

Maybe athiests need to start thinking outside the box instead of believing everthing just appeared out of nowhere for no reason. Then some theory will come along stating how it all began and then it will be found that it was inaccurate then another theory will form.
Please just take the time to look into it instead of mocking it.
Like I said before. It's up to you to have faith. God gives everyone free will. No one is telling you that you have to believe.

What's the worse thing that can happen to me if I'm wrong. I would die and nothing.
But if you die and you come face to face with God, well then.....................

excuse me but I think "the box" is faith. We do think outside "the box".

and yes, just like Johnny said...why live life in fear? I refuse to believe in a god that would require that of me.

You have offered your opinion above....that's all it is...just like I have offered my opinion

I think he meant "the box" as being everything in the universe. God is outside the box. Science and the world thinks and searches inside the box; what you can touch, see, feel. If God is real and the bible is true then he is most definitely outside the box. This is where we are thinking.

As for the other guys comments of "people still believing a book written 2000 years ago" I think that is the absolute beauty in it. Something from so long ago was finished and still upholds so many truths for a select group of people is truly amazing. We believe God has spoken and is judging and preparing eternity as we speak. For Christians eternity starts at the instance of salvation. The bible is our instruction manual for how God expects us to carry out our lives to have a successful life here and in the next. This teaching includes sharing its truth with nonbelievers.

Atheist should always remember that being a Christian and becoming saved doesn’t stop a human from being a sinner. That stops when they are glorified in death and separated from their human form. Lots of Christians, I being a former one of them, are lackadaisical once they get saved. They feel they have their ticket into heaven so their work is finished. This isn’t biblical. Lots of Christians take it overboard, I being one of them, in spreading the message of Christ’s teaching. This is also not biblical. We are human. Just as you don’t want to believe that what Christ taught was biblical I don’t want to believe that you will be in eternal torment because of my God if you don’t follow him. This is the case and the reason so many Christians are adamant about spreading this news. We only care for your wellbeing. I get that you don’t need this care. If you don’t want the message we offer that is fine. Just remember our message of existence is full and complete, science and the world's version is always changing. So trying to disprove ours is simple. You think you have all the right points to disprove it because your judgments are based on what can’t be seen. If theories of science are disproven the world just comes up with new ones. Its constant recourse, sometimes life don’t need you at all.

Please excuse me for living and wanting for you a life with eternal purpose.

Gern Blansten

so since the code of Hammurabi predates the bible.......?????

FiveB247x

I get the whole notion of faith and the mindset of living for an eternal life.. but with that stated, it's a leap beyond reason, logic and fact for which we as humans have factually debunked over the centuries through research in the sciences. No we haven't figured it all out yet, but the vast puzzle has been mostly figured out and over time, we will piece together that for which we do not currently know. This is something any person of faith or religion can not do - all they can say is "i believe", which is fine, but is no different from saying you saw big foot last week or a leprechaun the week before or a unicorn next week.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

Gern Blansten wrote:

so since the code of Hammurabi predates the bible.......?????

I especially like this one:

"If a man takes a woman to wife, but has no intercourse with her, this woman is no wife to him"

I'll have to let my wife know about that one.

I find it interesting that one of the codes is pretty explicit in the "eye for an eye" idea. It actually literally states that if one man takes the eye of another, his eye shall also be taken. So I guess the Ten Commandments was a forgery.

Gern Blansten

Johnny Sitar wrote:

Gern Blansten wrote:

so since the code of Hammurabi predates the bible.......?????

I especially like this one:

"If a man takes a woman to wife, but has no intercourse with her, this woman is no wife to him"

I'll have to let my wife know about that one.

I find it interesting that one of the codes is pretty explicit in the "eye for an eye" idea. It actually literally states that if one man takes the eye of another, his eye shall also be taken. So I guess the Ten Commandments was a forgery.

yes it was....except most of the 10C is related to god's ego

EddieLedBetter

Gern Blansten wrote:

so since the code of Hammurabi predates the bible.......?????

did the writer of these laws claim themselves a mere tool for God to bring these laws? There were lots of areas living under laws similar to these. That doesnt change that God moved in an idividuals life and set His law.

does this answer your ?????
http://www.wcg.org/lit/bible/law/steal10.htm

EddieLedBetter

FiveB247x wrote:

I get the whole notion of faith and the mindset of living for an eternal life.. but with that stated, it's a leap beyond reason, logic and fact for which we as humans have factually debunked over the centuries through research in the sciences. No we haven't figured it all out yet, but the vast puzzle has been mostly figured out and over time, we will piece together that for which we do not currently know. This is something any person of faith or religion can not do - all they can say is "i believe", which is fine, but is no different from saying you saw big foot last week or a leprechaun the week before or a unicorn next week.

You walking this earth being able to make decisions and change things in your environment aren’t outside of logic and reason? Existence in itself is completely illogical if you think about it. What is reason if we didn’t exist?

markin ball

EddieLedBetter wrote:

FiveB247x wrote:

I get the whole notion of faith and the mindset of living for an eternal life.. but with that stated, it's a leap beyond reason, logic and fact for which we as humans have factually debunked over the centuries through research in the sciences. No we haven't figured it all out yet, but the vast puzzle has been mostly figured out and over time, we will piece together that for which we do not currently know. This is something any person of faith or religion can not do - all they can say is "i believe", which is fine, but is no different from saying you saw big foot last week or a leprechaun the week before or a unicorn next week.

You walking this earth being able to make decisions and change things in your environment aren’t outside of logic and reason? Existence in itself is completely illogical if you think about it. What is reason if we didn’t exist?

That's a great point, actually. And I think we can extend that to say existence without purpose is illogical. However that would mean that god's existence would have to have a purpose and then that would mean there is something greater than god. It always comes back to "it's turtles all the way down." So, okay, god is illogical. So maybe we can agree not to try to use logic from now on to argue the existence of god.

Gern Blansten

EddieLedBetter wrote:

Gern Blansten wrote:

so since the code of Hammurabi predates the bible.......?????

did the writer of these laws claim themselves a mere tool for God to bring these laws? There were lots of areas living under laws similar to these. That doesnt change that God moved in an idividuals life and set His law.

does this answer your ?????
http://www.wcg.org/lit/bible/law/steal10.htm

from the world church?.....no

Hugh Freaking Dillon

markin ball wrote:

EddieLedBetter wrote:

FiveB247x wrote:

I get the whole notion of faith and the mindset of living for an eternal life.. but with that stated, it's a leap beyond reason, logic and fact for which we as humans have factually debunked over the centuries through research in the sciences. No we haven't figured it all out yet, but the vast puzzle has been mostly figured out and over time, we will piece together that for which we do not currently know. This is something any person of faith or religion can not do - all they can say is "i believe", which is fine, but is no different from saying you saw big foot last week or a leprechaun the week before or a unicorn next week.

You walking this earth being able to make decisions and change things in your environment aren’t outside of logic and reason? Existence in itself is completely illogical if you think about it. What is reason if we didn’t exist?

That's a great point, actually. And I think we can extend that to say existence without purpose is illogical. However that would mean that god's existence would have to have a purpose and then that would mean there is something greater than god. It always comes back to "it's turtles all the way down." So, okay, god is illogical. So maybe we can agree not to try to use logic from now on to argue the existence of god.

to be fair, ELB stated long ago that god is beyond the realm of logic, or something similar, since logic is a human tool that cannot comprehend the idea of what god actually is.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

EddieLedBetter wrote:

FiveB247x wrote:

I get the whole notion of faith and the mindset of living for an eternal life.. but with that stated, it's a leap beyond reason, logic and fact for which we as humans have factually debunked over the centuries through research in the sciences. No we haven't figured it all out yet, but the vast puzzle has been mostly figured out and over time, we will piece together that for which we do not currently know. This is something any person of faith or religion can not do - all they can say is "i believe", which is fine, but is no different from saying you saw big foot last week or a leprechaun the week before or a unicorn next week.

You walking this earth being able to make decisions and change things in your environment aren’t outside of logic and reason? Existence in itself is completely illogical if you think about it. What is reason if we didn’t exist?

I personally don't understand why people say our existence is illogical. Can someone please explain this idea to me?

FiveB247x

These are not illogical if you look at the science behind them. Perhaps you don't believe the actual odds of these things occurring are likely, but as you look at the subject in a scientific nature, it's all very logical, ordered and sequential. Billions of years of evolution (a religious persons dirty word) and changes/small steps over time have brought us to where we are now. The development of the smallest thing to the largest, we are filling in all the details scientifically over time. The simple fact that you can't find a purpose, meaning for life or existence otherwise, does not mean there has to be some god or creator, that is your mere hypothesis or opinion. And this in lies a religious persons mantra - for all we do not yet know or have not yet answered, it must mean there is a god. This is faulty logic and holds no place in science, reality or logic. There is a lot more science, fact and reason behind the notion of no god compared to existence of one. You're belief/faith leads you assume otherwise. You make that leap, ignoring tons of science, logic and rational. It is your right and choice to do so, but please do not sit here and tell us that religion is logical...that is simply nonsense.

EddieLedBetter wrote:

You walking this earth being able to make decisions and change things in your environment aren’t outside of logic and reason? Existence in itself is completely illogical if you think about it. What is reason if we didn’t exist?

redrock

Johnny Sitar wrote:

I personally don't understand why people say our existence is illogical. Can someone please explain this idea to me?

They obviously haven't read the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy which gives all the answers.

markin ball

Johnny Sitar wrote:

EddieLedBetter wrote:

FiveB247x wrote:

I get the whole notion of faith and the mindset of living for an eternal life.. but with that stated, it's a leap beyond reason, logic and fact for which we as humans have factually debunked over the centuries through research in the sciences. No we haven't figured it all out yet, but the vast puzzle has been mostly figured out and over time, we will piece together that for which we do not currently know. This is something any person of faith or religion can not do - all they can say is "i believe", which is fine, but is no different from saying you saw big foot last week or a leprechaun the week before or a unicorn next week.

You walking this earth being able to make decisions and change things in your environment aren’t outside of logic and reason? Existence in itself is completely illogical if you think about it. What is reason if we didn’t exist?

I personally don't understand why people say our existence is illogical. Can someone please explain this idea to me?

I took his question to mean that it would be illogical to be in existence without a purpose, which I think is a fair question but to be competely fair you have to apply the same thinking to god's existence.

EddieLedBetter

markin ball wrote:

EddieLedBetter wrote:

FiveB247x wrote:

I get the whole notion of faith and the mindset of living for an eternal life.. but with that stated, it's a leap beyond reason, logic and fact for which we as humans have factually debunked over the centuries through research in the sciences. No we haven't figured it all out yet, but the vast puzzle has been mostly figured out and over time, we will piece together that for which we do not currently know. This is something any person of faith or religion can not do - all they can say is "i believe", which is fine, but is no different from saying you saw big foot last week or a leprechaun the week before or a unicorn next week.

You walking this earth being able to make decisions and change things in your environment aren’t outside of logic and reason? Existence in itself is completely illogical if you think about it. What is reason if we didn’t exist?

That's a great point, actually. And I think we can extend that to say existence without purpose is illogical. However that would mean that god's existence would have to have a purpose and then that would mean there is something greater than god. It always comes back to "it's turtles all the way down." So, okay, god is illogical. So maybe we can agree not to try to use logic from now on to argue the existence of god.

Maybe there is something greater than God. Maybe there isn't. We are something looking at things under the microscope while we are under the microscope being looked at by something. Who knows. I know what my God told me about my life not Its life. He says I Am the Great I Am.

Also maybe we can agree to not use logic to discover the existence of our very being. Its illogical to think that life exists without purpose. Nothing science can test exists without purpose.

FiveB247x

Firstly, there's tons of different religions. Some have loosely connected beliefs, traditions or origins, but most do not. Most are inherently telling the believer that their religion is the only correct way, path or belief system. What does this mean? It means there's tons of religious people who are wrong - and that's even if there is one creator/god in existence. Perhaps some feel that varying religions all point to the same creator in nature/idea, but the vast majority of religious people in the world do not believe or think this - they believe they are correct. No different from saying blue is my favorite color and everyone else is wrong... this can't be proven or dis-proven, it just is. This is the same reason you can't disprove me if I believe big foot is walking the earth and lives with pink unicorns and green leprechauns. I think most would laugh or chuckle at this last comment, but it is no different from religion - its something that can't be proven but we would hope fact, logic and rational would prevail.

Secondly, the notion that humankind or the things on the Earth or in our Universe have to amount to something is a man-made notion. We feel it should mean something greater and represent something significant, so we elaborate on them in such ways to reiterate that. If you look at the history of the Earth through billions of years of formations, changes and cycles, we learn how the things got to be the way they are now. Most religious people like to say the things we don't have answers for, god is responsible for... kind of a fill in the blank response. I find that rather silly to be honest. The only thing a religious person should say in these discussions is one thing - I have faith and these are my beliefs because it's the only thing you can say. There's no arguing that. But if you start arguing fact, logic, reason, history and science there is a much greater empty void for which god, religion and belief are unexplained compared to the other half.

Lastly, I'm sure you can tell I'm far from a religious person, but I would say this much, many of the tenets of religions are mere moral codes to live by - ways to be a good person in life.. .at-least those worth adhering too. Perhaps that's more of a humanist view, but it's the only part of religion, spirituality or belief I can relate.

EddieLedBetter wrote:

Maybe there is something greater than God. Maybe there isn't. We are something looking at things under the microscope while we are under the microscope being looked at by something. Who knows. I know what my God told me about my life not Its life. He says I Am the Great I Am.

Also maybe we can agree to not use logic to discover the existence of our very being. Its illogical to think that life exists without purpose. Nothing science can test exists without purpose.