I don't think turner fits with this group of players. namely thad and holiday. he has to have the ball more often than he does to be effective. and his play will never justify his salary because of where they picked him.
also, he's one of the few guys on this roster who would bring anything back via trade.
would be nice to still have vucevic. he's been killing it this year. I said I liked him last year. Never understood why collins buried him on the bench...especially when you consider that guys like tony battie were playing instead of him :roll:
I think collins needs to go too. Does this team even have an offensive system? or set plays? I would say no. I think during timeouts, collins just says, ok jrue bring the ball up and find an open shooter. if no one is open just create your own shot. this is especially evident at the end of close games. I'd love a guy like scott skiles
I don't think turner fits with this group of players. namely thad and holiday. he has to have the ball more often than he does to be effective. and his play will never justify his salary because of where they picked him.
also, he's one of the few guys on this roster who would bring anything back via trade.
would be nice to still have vucevic. he's been killing it this year. I said I liked him last year. Never understood why collins buried him on the bench...especially when you consider that guys like tony battie were playing instead of him :roll:
I think collins needs to go too. Does this team even have an offensive system? or set plays? I would say no. I think during timeouts, collins just says, ok jrue bring the ball up and find an open shooter. if no one is open just create your own shot. this is especially evident at the end of close games. I'd love a guy like scott skiles
i think turner and jrue have done okay with sharing some of the ball handling responsibilities this year. the key has been turner developing his sweet spot in the corner.
lavoy allen outplayed vuc last year down the stretch and was really good in the playoffs. i like vuc too, but nobody really saw this coming. and, again, if andrew bynum was healthy, we wouldn't really be missing him.
collins got the max out of this team the last couple years. this year, again--i can't quite fault him for riding jrue as much as he has. this team just cannot win without a low post presence.
I don't think turner fits with this group of players. namely thad and holiday. he has to have the ball more often than he does to be effective. and his play will never justify his salary because of where they picked him.
also, he's one of the few guys on this roster who would bring anything back via trade.
would be nice to still have vucevic. he's been killing it this year. I said I liked him last year. Never understood why collins buried him on the bench...especially when you consider that guys like tony battie were playing instead of him :roll:
I think collins needs to go too. Does this team even have an offensive system? or set plays? I would say no. I think during timeouts, collins just says, ok jrue bring the ball up and find an open shooter. if no one is open just create your own shot. this is especially evident at the end of close games. I'd love a guy like scott skiles
i think turner and jrue have done okay with sharing some of the ball handling responsibilities this year. the key has been turner developing his sweet spot in the corner.
lavoy allen outplayed vuc last year down the stretch and was really good in the playoffs. i like vuc too, but nobody really saw this coming. and, again, if andrew bynum was healthy, we wouldn't really be missing him.
collins got the max out of this team the last couple years. this year, again--i can't quite fault him for riding jrue as much as he has. this team just cannot win without a low post presence.
yeah, but I don't think turner can play the 2 consistently. they can get by with him playing there for brief stretches, but he isn't a 2. I'd trade him tonight.
No one saw Vucevic breaking out because no one got to see him play. Tony Battie...seriously. And to say they wouldn't miss him is funny. How can you say that? have you seen this frontcourt??? Kwame Brown makes more money than Vucevic...which one would you rather have?
Like I said many times before. This team's core was overrated and Collins isn't good enough. I even alluded to the burnout that would happen in year three of collins' tenure. He's practically begging guys to listen to him at this point. He's run his course here. Beat it
turner doesn't play the 2. he's the 3 on this team. iguadala's old spot.
vuc was part of the trade to bring bynum here. again, if bynum is healthy, he's the best center in the eastern conference. so would rather have that, or vucevic?
and vucevic played himself out of meaningful minutes last year. he was shooting 35% in the 2nd half of the season. he was hot early on but played really poorly as the season dragged on. still averaged 16 minutes a game.
everyone has alluded to the doug collins burnout because it's happened everywhere he has been. again- if bynum was healthy, i don't think this would be brought up as much as the team would be much better.
i like the core more than you i guess. we now have an all star and 2 of the best young players in the league. throw bynum or another big in the mix, and you're a much better team.
turner doesn't play the 2. he's the 3 on this team. iguadala's old spot.
vuc was part of the trade to bring bynum here. again, if bynum is healthy, he's the best center in the eastern conference. so would rather have that, or vucevic?
and vucevic played himself out of meaningful minutes last year. he was shooting 35% in the 2nd half of the season. he was hot early on but played really poorly as the season dragged on. still averaged 16 minutes a game.
everyone has alluded to the doug collins burnout because it's happened everywhere he has been. again- if bynum was healthy, i don't think this would be brought up as much as the team would be much better.
i like the core more than you i guess. we now have an all star and 2 of the best young players in the league. throw bynum or another big in the mix, and you're a much better team.
I meant that turner isn't going to play the point with holiday here. he can't play the 2. and by having him primarily at the 3 it's not utilizing him to the best of his abilities. This is why I don't think he's a great fit.
You keep saying 'healthy bynum'. might as well talk about unicorns and leprechauns
I like thad young, but he's pretty inconsistent. Doesn't really have a position or an outside game.
I definitely don't like them as much as you. But that's not breaking news...we have been having this discussion since turner got drafted.
Like I said before...getting rid of the iggy/brand salaries was the easy part. The tough part is adding the right pieces. Even with some cap space (like you said, for a change), they're still in a shitty spot. Bynum is gonna be a lose-lose scenario due to his health and the amount of money he's going to command. And they are likely going to have to overpay for any big ticket FA they try to sign. There is so little room for error with FAs. There will be a tremendous amount of pressure to hit on their signings. last thing we want is another brand/webber/geiger like bust, which will again set them back for the duration of said contract.
The way I see it, they have one piece in holiday. The rest is crap. I wouldn't give bynum the amount of money it's going to take to sign him, which makes that trade a colossal failure (again, I think either way they end up losing that trade since they can't depend on bynum being on the court). so they need a frontcourt, a shooting guard, a bench, and a coach.
but you ignore the fact that turner has played well at the 3 this year. his numbers have gone up across the board. again, there are not many players in the league putting up 14 points, 7 boards, and 4 assists per game while shooting 41% from 3pt range. this is mostly coming from the small forward position. those are igualdala-ish numbers, albeit, without the elite level defense. but throw a low post presence into the mix and he's a decent 3rd option.
i keep saying "healthy bynum" because that is what this team was built around. he's obviously not healthy. but you keep ignoring this huge white elephant every time you say "same old sixers." you fail to acknowledge that they did what you wanted them to do. the guy is just injured--and that is the one humungous reason for this disastrous season. gotta be rational about things fixer.
getting rid of iguadala for the right deal was certainly not easy. that's why it took so long. i don't think anyone said it would be...then again, you wanted to trade him for monte ellis, who is garbage...
--the trade was made under the assumption that bynum would be healthy or at least give you 65 games a year like he did in LA. you get that and boom--there is your piece to go along with jrue and thad and turner. that's the team that vegas had winning 48 games this year and would only improve in the subsequent years as holiday improved and they added more pieces. the injury throws a huge monkey wrench into the situation obviously. and obviously there is a huge amount of pressure with what to do now. at least they have some money to make a move. and at least ed stefanski isn't the one making that decision. it's not an easy decision to make.
no other team has 2 of the best players under 25. the sixers do. and one of them just became the youngest sixer ever to make an all star game. kid's going to be a star for the next decade. it's been15 years since this team has had that kind of young talent. i don't know what to do with bynum at this point. but all they need is either him or another legitimate big and they're instantly a much better team and close to contending. dominant center/all star point guard--that's a pretty nice combo that most teams do not have.
i think the sixers are doing as well as they can be under the circumstances ... not easy to be a championship contender in the most corrupt league out there ... bynum would for sure make a difference but the guy does have a history of injuries and being a bit of a head case, both of which have been exhibited since becoming a sixer ... so, high risk, high reward ... thing is - the eastern conference is riddled with teams like the sixers ... if the knicks lose melo - they are mediocre ... deron for the nets ... rondo for the celts ... even the heat look shit this year (relatively speaking) ... doesn't take a whole lot to get to the conference finals in the east ... sixers with bynum and his head put on straight has as good a shot as any other team ... beating the heat obviously much harder ...
i would say giving your team a shot at the eastern conference finals is good enough ... if you want to be a championship contender ... well, you'll need to either be able to lure free agents, get lucky in the draft or have the league conspire for you ...
i think the sixers are doing as well as they can be under the circumstances ... not easy to be a championship contender in the most corrupt league out there ... bynum would for sure make a difference but the guy does have a history of injuries and being a bit of a head case, both of which have been exhibited since becoming a sixer ... so, high risk, high reward ... thing is - the eastern conference is riddled with teams like the sixers ... if the knicks lose melo - they are mediocre ... deron for the nets ... rondo for the celts ... even the heat look shit this year (relatively speaking) ... doesn't take a whole lot to get to the conference finals in the east ... sixers with bynum and his head put on straight has as good a shot as any other team ... beating the heat obviously much harder ...
i would say giving your team a shot at the eastern conference finals is good enough ... if you want to be a championship contender ... well, you'll need to either be able to lure free agents, get lucky in the draft or have the league conspire for you ...
agreed.
...but how do we get the league to conspire for us?
but you ignore the fact that turner has played well at the 3 this year. his numbers have gone up across the board. again, there are not many players in the league putting up 14 points, 7 boards, and 4 assists per game while shooting 41% from 3pt range. this is mostly coming from the small forward position. those are igualdala-ish numbers, albeit, without the elite level defense. but throw a low post presence into the mix and he's a decent 3rd option.
i keep saying "healthy bynum" because that is what this team was built around. he's obviously not healthy. but you keep ignoring this huge white elephant every time you say "same old sixers." you fail to acknowledge that they did what you wanted them to do. the guy is just injured--and that is the one humungous reason for this disastrous season. gotta be rational about things fixer.
getting rid of iguadala for the right deal was certainly not easy. that's why it took so long. i don't think anyone said it would be...then again, you wanted to trade him for monte ellis, who is garbage...
--the trade was made under the assumption that bynum would be healthy or at least give you 65 games a year like he did in LA. you get that and boom--there is your piece to go along with jrue and thad and turner. that's the team that vegas had winning 48 games this year and would only improve in the subsequent years as holiday improved and they added more pieces. the injury throws a huge monkey wrench into the situation obviously. and obviously there is a huge amount of pressure with what to do now. at least they have some money to make a move. and at least ed stefanski isn't the one making that decision. it's not an easy decision to make.
no other team has 2 of the best players under 25. the sixers do. and one of them just became the youngest sixer ever to make an all star game. kid's going to be a star for the next decade. it's been15 years since this team has had that kind of young talent. i don't know what to do with bynum at this point. but all they need is either him or another legitimate big and they're instantly a much better team and close to contending. dominant center/all star point guard--that's a pretty nice combo that most teams do not have.
dude, I never said I wanted monte ellis. you have me confused with someone else. I said ellis is exciting to watch, but he is not someone I want on a team I like. He's too much like iverson...not condusive to winning.
I never wanted iguodala run out of town either. I liked him more than most here. He was miscast and overpaid because the sixers can't manage a poker game, but I liked what he brought to the team.
turner may be shooting 3's better because he just stands in the corner, but his overall FG % is down 15 points this year. At best the dude is average offensively (and I think that's a stretch). On a good team he is a fringe starter/role player...if he's your third option then your team isn't good. as we have seen. I just don't see him the same way you do. I'd trade his ass in a heartbeat.
bynum has played 65+ games 2 times in 7 seasons (not including this year, which will make it 2 for 8). why would you suddenly expect him to play that many games? if anything as guys age, they become more injury prone, not less. talk about needing to be rational :roll:
I think you're overrated the two players under 25 thing. thad young is a solid player, but I don't think he's anything special. I like him but let's not get carried away. You're basing this premise of them having two of the top 25 players under 25 years old on a stupid internet power ranking list. Would you take any of these players over thad young? Wall, Drummond, Favors, Gallinari, MKG. Yep, I would too...and none of them are ranked in this stupid top 25 list.
The way you defend this franchise is funny. Like Casey Anthony's parents. As usual this team is going nowhere fast.
i remember you saying something about traiding iguadala for ellis last year. maybe i'm wrong.
always liked iguadala too but he had to be moved in order for them to acquire a star like bynum. he got paid market price though. on par with lual deng that summer. still far too much. thank you ed stefanski :roll:
turner's fg% is down .015% this year. hardly a difference from last year. with a healthy bynum, you have a good team here.-- then you'd have bynum as the 1st option, jrue, and then i guess either thad or evan. so a 3rd or 4th option. that's certainly a role he fits in. but i'd trade him too, if it makes sense.
yeah bynum has averaged 56 games a year. i said 65 so, yeah, i was off a bit. but that has nothing to do with being rational or not. i'm as rational as it gets, especially compared to most of you guys in here.
so now the list is stupid. classic move, fixer. i think thad young is a solid player who will only be that much better with a competent center. he's played real well this year.
casey anthony's parents? yeah that makes sense.
what polaris said above makes a lot of sense. the bynum injury has completely crippled this team. they'd be a 48-50 win team with him. without him, there's not much to get excited about except jrue playing at an elite level at the ripe old age of 22.
i remember you saying something about traiding iguadala for ellis last year. maybe i'm wrong.
always liked iguadala too but he had to be moved in order for them to acquire a star like bynum. he got paid market price though. on par with lual deng that summer. still far too much. thank you ed stefanski :roll:
turner's fg% is down .015% this year. hardly a difference from last year. with a healthy bynum, you have a good team here.-- then you'd have bynum as the 1st option, jrue, and then i guess either thad or evan. so a 3rd or 4th option. that's certainly a role he fits in. but i'd trade him too, if it makes sense.
yeah bynum has averaged 56 games a year. i said 65 so, yeah, i was off a bit. but that has nothing to do with being rational or not. i'm as rational as it gets, especially compared to most of you guys in here.
so now the list is stupid. classic move, fixer. i think thad young is a solid player who will only be that much better with a competent center. he's played real well this year.
casey anthony's parents? yeah that makes sense.
what polaris said above makes a lot of sense. the bynum injury has completely crippled this team. they'd be a 48-50 win team with him. without him, there's not much to get excited about except jrue playing at an elite level at the ripe old age of 22.
1 - yes, wrong...just like you are wrong to be optimistic about this abortion of a franchise
2 - iguodala was def overpaid. agree
3 - there's 'healthy bynum' again. telling you, that's a figment of your imagination. would you give him a new contract?
4 - you're irrational brother (healthy bynum). you have been on board with the direction of this team since collins and turner got here. that hasn't really worked out so well....and there's no end in sight to this endless cycle of mediocrity
5 - was the bynum injury really a surprise to you? I don't see how it possibly could be
6 - yes, the list is stupid. you brought it up. not sure why since it's pointless
and yes, holiday is a beast. just sucks that he's all they've got
fixer ... here's the question ... how many teams in the eastern conference would you swap rosters with right now short of miami? ... factoring in existing contracts ...
fixer ... here's the question ... how many teams in the eastern conference would you swap rosters with right now short of miami? ... factoring in existing contracts ...
I am not going to pretend to know all teams contract situations. And I'm too lazy to look this up.
Off top of my head...I like the brooklyn squad a lot. Indiana. Cleveland looks like they're in a nice spot with Irving, cap space, and high picks coming (believe they have 2 1's in the upcoming draft).
A better question is this...as a sixers fan, (other than holiday) what is there to be optimistic about? All I want is for this team to have a plan for a change. I'm sick of watching guys like tony battie, spencer hawes, nick young, royal ivey (who collins inexplicably gives minutes to in close games down the stretch...his inbounds pass vs SA was arguably the play of the game in that choke job the other night), kwame brown, andres nocioni, etc.
I am not going to pretend to know all teams contract situations. And I'm too lazy to look this up.
Off top of my head...I like the brooklyn squad a lot. Indiana. Cleveland looks like they're in a nice spot with Irving, cap space, and high picks coming (believe they have 2 1's in the upcoming draft).
A better question is this...as a sixers fan, (other than holiday) what is there to be optimistic about? All I want is for this team to have a plan for a change. I'm sick of watching guys like tony battie, spencer hawes, nick young, royal ivey (who collins inexplicably gives minutes to in close games down the stretch...his inbounds pass vs SA was arguably the play of the game in that choke job the other night), kwame brown, andres nocioni, etc.
indiana is playing well, specifically george but they have long term health issues with granger and they just signed hibbert to a monster deal and he hasn't shown he deserves it ... that situation could go pear shaped ... brooklyn is playing well recently but their status hinges on the health of a big man who pretty much missed all last season and has missed 1/5 of this season's games already ... cleveland could be alright as kyrie is a stud but do they have enough pieces now or coming up to sustain anything and/or move to championship contention? ... hard to say ...
my primary point is simply that in the eastern conference ... you don't need a whole lot to compete and that building a championship contending team requires a bunch of shit to go your way (like 3 all stars conspiring to play in one place) ... and that the current makeup of the squad has at least one major building lock and serviceable players without a burden of a huge bad contract ... if bynum isn't going to work long term in philly - you at least have that cap space ... and really - you're not that far off from being a significantly better team ...
i remember you saying something about traiding iguadala for ellis last year. maybe i'm wrong.
always liked iguadala too but he had to be moved in order for them to acquire a star like bynum. he got paid market price though. on par with lual deng that summer. still far too much. thank you ed stefanski :roll:
turner's fg% is down .015% this year. hardly a difference from last year. with a healthy bynum, you have a good team here.-- then you'd have bynum as the 1st option, jrue, and then i guess either thad or evan. so a 3rd or 4th option. that's certainly a role he fits in. but i'd trade him too, if it makes sense.
yeah bynum has averaged 56 games a year. i said 65 so, yeah, i was off a bit. but that has nothing to do with being rational or not. i'm as rational as it gets, especially compared to most of you guys in here.
so now the list is stupid. classic move, fixer. i think thad young is a solid player who will only be that much better with a competent center. he's played real well this year.
casey anthony's parents? yeah that makes sense.
what polaris said above makes a lot of sense. the bynum injury has completely crippled this team. they'd be a 48-50 win team with him. without him, there's not much to get excited about except jrue playing at an elite level at the ripe old age of 22.
1 - yes, wrong...just like you are wrong to be optimistic about this abortion of a franchise
2 - iguodala was def overpaid. agree
3 - there's 'healthy bynum' again. telling you, that's a figment of your imagination. would you give him a new contract?
4 - you're irrational brother (healthy bynum). you have been on board with the direction of this team since collins and turner got here. that hasn't really worked out so well....and there's no end in sight to this endless cycle of mediocrity
5 - was the bynum injury really a surprise to you? I don't see how it possibly could be
and yes, holiday is a beast. just sucks that he's all they've got
1. i looked it up. you did mention a trade proposal with ellis. you were hesitant about it, i was flat out against it. he stinks.
2. :thumbup:
3. i keep mentioning that because they were anticipating him being HEALTHY when they made the trade. you irrationally act like the team is just garbage and fail to acknowledge that they are garbage because the guy they are built around is injuried.
4. yeah i have been on board with this team since they got here. correct. this is year 3. they improved in years 1 and 2 and would be a team that could win 48-50 games if bynum was healthy. franchise was dead for a decade before the new regime got here. i think rationally and don't expect a team to improve overnight.
5. yes. i think it was a surprise to everyone that he has not played one second of basketball this year. he was supposed to be ready to go from day 1. never expected him to play 82 games though.
6. giant leap forward for jrue this year. thank god.
I am not going to pretend to know all teams contract situations. And I'm too lazy to look this up.
Off top of my head...I like the brooklyn squad a lot. Indiana. Cleveland looks like they're in a nice spot with Irving, cap space, and high picks coming (believe they have 2 1's in the upcoming draft).
A better question is this...as a sixers fan, (other than holiday) what is there to be optimistic about? All I want is for this team to have a plan for a change. I'm sick of watching guys like tony battie, spencer hawes, nick young, royal ivey (who collins inexplicably gives minutes to in close games down the stretch...his inbounds pass vs SA was arguably the play of the game in that choke job the other night), kwame brown, andres nocioni, etc.
indiana is playing well, specifically george but they have long term health issues with granger and they just signed hibbert to a monster deal and he hasn't shown he deserves it ... that situation could go pear shaped ... brooklyn is playing well recently but their status hinges on the health of a big man who pretty much missed all last season and has missed 1/5 of this season's games already ... cleveland could be alright as kyrie is a stud but do they have enough pieces now or coming up to sustain anything and/or move to championship contention? ... hard to say ...
my primary point is simply that in the eastern conference ... you don't need a whole lot to compete and that building a championship contending team requires a bunch of shit to go your way (like 3 all stars conspiring to play in one place) ... and that the current makeup of the squad has at least one major building lock and serviceable players without a burden of a huge bad contract ... if bynum isn't going to work long term in philly - you at least have that cap space ... and really - you're not that far off from being a significantly better team ...
I am not going to pretend to know all teams contract situations. And I'm too lazy to look this up.
Off top of my head...I like the brooklyn squad a lot. Indiana. Cleveland looks like they're in a nice spot with Irving, cap space, and high picks coming (believe they have 2 1's in the upcoming draft).
A better question is this...as a sixers fan, (other than holiday) what is there to be optimistic about? All I want is for this team to have a plan for a change. I'm sick of watching guys like tony battie, spencer hawes, nick young, royal ivey (who collins inexplicably gives minutes to in close games down the stretch...his inbounds pass vs SA was arguably the play of the game in that choke job the other night), kwame brown, andres nocioni, etc.
indiana is playing well, specifically george but they have long term health issues with granger and they just signed hibbert to a monster deal and he hasn't shown he deserves it ... that situation could go pear shaped ... brooklyn is playing well recently but their status hinges on the health of a big man who pretty much missed all last season and has missed 1/5 of this season's games already ... cleveland could be alright as kyrie is a stud but do they have enough pieces now or coming up to sustain anything and/or move to championship contention? ... hard to say ...
my primary point is simply that in the eastern conference ... you don't need a whole lot to compete and that building a championship contending team requires a bunch of shit to go your way (like 3 all stars conspiring to play in one place) ... and that the current makeup of the squad has at least one major building lock and serviceable players without a burden of a huge bad contract ... if bynum isn't going to work long term in philly - you at least have that cap space ... and really - you're not that far off from being a significantly better team ...
I think brooklyn will give the heat all they can handle. miami is really soft and lopez, wallace, humphries can pound them down low. Really like the way the nets roster is put together.
I mentioned earlier in the thread that even if they don't re-sign bynum (which they shouldn't, but prob will...because they're the sixers), there are still 8 other teams who will have more cap money than the sixers this offseason. Look at their roster and tell me how that is possible. Like I said, they will have so little room for error with their FA acquisitions that I think it's far fetched to envision this team pulling all the right strings to get to where they need to be. You know how the nba works...you need to be terrible in order to get good. They were a bit unlucky the year they landed the 2 overall pick. Turner is not what you want there (cousins or favors paired with holiday would be nice right about now).
they will have around 16 million to spend if they don't resign bynum. and now they have an all star point guard to make them more of an attraction. it's not nearly as dire a situation as you make it sound man.
i remember you saying something about traiding iguadala for ellis last year. maybe i'm wrong.
always liked iguadala too but he had to be moved in order for them to acquire a star like bynum. he got paid market price though. on par with lual deng that summer. still far too much. thank you ed stefanski :roll:
turner's fg% is down .015% this year. hardly a difference from last year. with a healthy bynum, you have a good team here.-- then you'd have bynum as the 1st option, jrue, and then i guess either thad or evan. so a 3rd or 4th option. that's certainly a role he fits in. but i'd trade him too, if it makes sense.
yeah bynum has averaged 56 games a year. i said 65 so, yeah, i was off a bit. but that has nothing to do with being rational or not. i'm as rational as it gets, especially compared to most of you guys in here.
so now the list is stupid. classic move, fixer. i think thad young is a solid player who will only be that much better with a competent center. he's played real well this year.
casey anthony's parents? yeah that makes sense.
what polaris said above makes a lot of sense. the bynum injury has completely crippled this team. they'd be a 48-50 win team with him. without him, there's not much to get excited about except jrue playing at an elite level at the ripe old age of 22.
1 - yes, wrong...just like you are wrong to be optimistic about this abortion of a franchise
2 - iguodala was def overpaid. agree
3 - there's 'healthy bynum' again. telling you, that's a figment of your imagination. would you give him a new contract?
4 - you're irrational brother (healthy bynum). you have been on board with the direction of this team since collins and turner got here. that hasn't really worked out so well....and there's no end in sight to this endless cycle of mediocrity
5 - was the bynum injury really a surprise to you? I don't see how it possibly could be
and yes, holiday is a beast. just sucks that he's all they've got
1. i looked it up. you did mention a trade proposal with ellis. you were hesitant about it, i was flat out against it. he stinks.
2. :thumbup:
3. i keep mentioning that because they were anticipating him being HEALTHY when they made the trade. you irrationally act like the team is just garbage and fail to acknowledge that they are garbage because the guy they are built around is injuried.
4. yeah i have been on board with this team since they got here. correct. this is year 3. they improved in years 1 and 2 and would be a team that could win 48-50 games if bynum was healthy. franchise was dead for a decade before the new regime got here. i think rationally and don't expect a team to improve overnight.
5. yes. i think it was a surprise to everyone that he has not played one second of basketball this year. he was supposed to be ready to go from day 1. never expected him to play 82 games though.
6. giant leap forward for jrue this year. thank god.
I said that ellis isn't conducive to winning. Been steadfast with that opinion. He's AI lite.
Point #3 is the biggie here. Anticipating a guy with a history of injuries being healthy probably isn't the smartest idea. Now they will have to scramble for recourse, which probably doesn't exist.
would you bring bynum back? would you bring collins back?
1 - yes, wrong...just like you are wrong to be optimistic about this abortion of a franchise
2 - iguodala was def overpaid. agree
3 - there's 'healthy bynum' again. telling you, that's a figment of your imagination. would you give him a new contract?
4 - you're irrational brother (healthy bynum). you have been on board with the direction of this team since collins and turner got here. that hasn't really worked out so well....and there's no end in sight to this endless cycle of mediocrity
5 - was the bynum injury really a surprise to you? I don't see how it possibly could be
and yes, holiday is a beast. just sucks that he's all they've got
1. i looked it up. you did mention a trade proposal with ellis. you were hesitant about it, i was flat out against it. he stinks.
2. :thumbup:
3. i keep mentioning that because they were anticipating him being HEALTHY when they made the trade. you irrationally act like the team is just garbage and fail to acknowledge that they are garbage because the guy they are built around is injuried.
4. yeah i have been on board with this team since they got here. correct. this is year 3. they improved in years 1 and 2 and would be a team that could win 48-50 games if bynum was healthy. franchise was dead for a decade before the new regime got here. i think rationally and don't expect a team to improve overnight.
5. yes. i think it was a surprise to everyone that he has not played one second of basketball this year. he was supposed to be ready to go from day 1. never expected him to play 82 games though.
6. giant leap forward for jrue this year. thank god.
I said that ellis isn't conducive to winning. Been steadfast with that opinion. He's AI lite.
Point #3 is the biggie here. Anticipating a guy with a history of injuries being healthy probably isn't the smartest idea. Now they will have to scramble for recourse, which probably doesn't exist.
would you bring bynum back? would you bring collins back?
the risk was absolutely worth the reward. everyone, including you, agreed at the time. you shed yourself of iguadala's contract and bring in a guy who did play every game last year (lockout shortened, sure) that would be considered the best center in the eastern conference. again-nobody expected him to be healthy for 82 games. but if you got the 56 or so games he averaged in la, i would take that.
when you look at all of the other trade rumors iguadala was associated with, this was far and above better than anything else...especially since his contract is up this summer.
i would absolutely bring collins back. i don't know what to do with bynum at this point. gotta wait and see what he looks like on the court as well what the free agent market looks like this summer. it's clearly not an easy decision.
risky move with bynum's injury history and contract situation, but if they can get him signed I'm cool with this deal. I think they gave up a lot. Gonna hurt not having 2 ones to trade/draft, but bynum immediately becomes their best player.
still think they have a ways to go to become a contender, but I like this move (assuming they get bynum inked)
I hope the lakers lose every game next year. kobe and howard on same team??....ugh, dbag squad
I said I liked the deal if they re-upped bynum. Even mentioned that I thought they gave up a lot and incurred a ton of risk
After further review, I don't think they should sign him...which means the trade is a loss. and a bad one at that.
not sure what this all means, other than they are still in the same position as the last 20 years
risky move with bynum's injury history and contract situation, but if they can get him signed I'm cool with this deal. I think they gave up a lot. Gonna hurt not having 2 ones to trade/draft, but bynum immediately becomes their best player.
still think they have a ways to go to become a contender, but I like this move (assuming they get bynum inked)
I hope the lakers lose every game next year. kobe and howard on same team??....ugh, dbag squad
I said I liked the deal if they re-upped bynum. Even mentioned that I thought they gave up a lot and incurred a ton of risk
After further review, I don't think they should sign him...which means the trade is a loss. and a bad one at that.
not sure what this all means, other than they are still in the same position as the last 20 years
so you liked it
i think me and jearlpam said, back then, that we'd like it even if they don't resign him because of the cap space. i still agree with that...but again, i don't know what i would do at this point.
huge difference between this regime and the dreck we had in the post larry brown years.
does anyone in your family have their own business? an IT, telecom type thing.
I was at the doc with the wife a couple of weeks ago in bryn mawr...I parked next to a work van that had your name on it. I thought you might have been stalking me
risky move with bynum's injury history and contract situation, but if they can get him signed I'm cool with this deal. I think they gave up a lot. Gonna hurt not having 2 ones to trade/draft, but bynum immediately becomes their best player.
still think they have a ways to go to become a contender, but I like this move (assuming they get bynum inked)
I hope the lakers lose every game next year. kobe and howard on same team??....ugh, dbag squad
I said I liked the deal if they re-upped bynum. Even mentioned that I thought they gave up a lot and incurred a ton of risk
After further review, I don't think they should sign him...which means the trade is a loss. and a bad one at that.
not sure what this all means, other than they are still in the same position as the last 20 years
so you liked it
i think me and jearlpam said, back then, that we'd like it even if they don't resign him because of the cap space. i still agree with that...but again, i don't know what i would do at this point.
huge difference between this regime and the dreck we had in the post larry brown years.
I was apprenhensive. I liked it conditionally. not assured those conditions are going to come to fruition...and now I hope they don't, which would mean I didn't like it.
I don't think him showing anything this year helps them. Probably best if he sits out the year...that will keep his price tag down and their draft pick up. I know he's gonna try to play, but it's prob not in their best interest at this point
does anyone in your family have their own business? an IT, telecom type thing.
I was at the doc with the wife a couple of weeks ago in bryn mawr...I parked next to a work van that had your name on it. I thought you might have been stalking me
I said I liked the deal if they re-upped bynum. Even mentioned that I thought they gave up a lot and incurred a ton of risk
After further review, I don't think they should sign him...which means the trade is a loss. and a bad one at that.
not sure what this all means, other than they are still in the same position as the last 20 years
so you liked it
i think me and jearlpam said, back then, that we'd like it even if they don't resign him because of the cap space. i still agree with that...but again, i don't know what i would do at this point.
huge difference between this regime and the dreck we had in the post larry brown years.
I was apprenhensive. I liked it conditionally. not assured those conditions are going to come to fruition...and now I hope they don't, which would mean I didn't like it.
I don't think him showing anything this year helps them. Probably best if he sits out the year...that will keep his price tag down and their draft pick up. I know he's gonna try to play, but it's prob not in their best interest at this point
see now, with the how the season has played out so far, i might be inclined to agree with that. especially since the pick is protected.
but they can't prohibit him from playing if he's healthy.
Comments
also, he's one of the few guys on this roster who would bring anything back via trade.
would be nice to still have vucevic. he's been killing it this year. I said I liked him last year. Never understood why collins buried him on the bench...especially when you consider that guys like tony battie were playing instead of him :roll:
I think collins needs to go too. Does this team even have an offensive system? or set plays? I would say no. I think during timeouts, collins just says, ok jrue bring the ball up and find an open shooter. if no one is open just create your own shot. this is especially evident at the end of close games. I'd love a guy like scott skiles
lakers suck also....but jeez
the sixers are the same as they always are. not good enough to win anything...not bad enough to put themselves in a position to get better.
it's a joke
i think turner and jrue have done okay with sharing some of the ball handling responsibilities this year. the key has been turner developing his sweet spot in the corner.
lavoy allen outplayed vuc last year down the stretch and was really good in the playoffs. i like vuc too, but nobody really saw this coming. and, again, if andrew bynum was healthy, we wouldn't really be missing him.
collins got the max out of this team the last couple years. this year, again--i can't quite fault him for riding jrue as much as he has. this team just cannot win without a low post presence.
love watching the lakers play as poorly as the sixers have this year.
really though, you think the sixers don't have a shot at winning the east this year? what makes you think that.
yeah, but I don't think turner can play the 2 consistently. they can get by with him playing there for brief stretches, but he isn't a 2. I'd trade him tonight.
No one saw Vucevic breaking out because no one got to see him play. Tony Battie...seriously. And to say they wouldn't miss him is funny. How can you say that? have you seen this frontcourt??? Kwame Brown makes more money than Vucevic...which one would you rather have?
Like I said many times before. This team's core was overrated and Collins isn't good enough. I even alluded to the burnout that would happen in year three of collins' tenure. He's practically begging guys to listen to him at this point. He's run his course here. Beat it
vuc was part of the trade to bring bynum here. again, if bynum is healthy, he's the best center in the eastern conference. so would rather have that, or vucevic?
and vucevic played himself out of meaningful minutes last year. he was shooting 35% in the 2nd half of the season. he was hot early on but played really poorly as the season dragged on. still averaged 16 minutes a game.
everyone has alluded to the doug collins burnout because it's happened everywhere he has been. again- if bynum was healthy, i don't think this would be brought up as much as the team would be much better.
i like the core more than you i guess. we now have an all star and 2 of the best young players in the league. throw bynum or another big in the mix, and you're a much better team.
I meant that turner isn't going to play the point with holiday here. he can't play the 2. and by having him primarily at the 3 it's not utilizing him to the best of his abilities. This is why I don't think he's a great fit.
You keep saying 'healthy bynum'. might as well talk about unicorns and leprechauns
I like thad young, but he's pretty inconsistent. Doesn't really have a position or an outside game.
I definitely don't like them as much as you. But that's not breaking news...we have been having this discussion since turner got drafted.
Like I said before...getting rid of the iggy/brand salaries was the easy part. The tough part is adding the right pieces. Even with some cap space (like you said, for a change), they're still in a shitty spot. Bynum is gonna be a lose-lose scenario due to his health and the amount of money he's going to command. And they are likely going to have to overpay for any big ticket FA they try to sign. There is so little room for error with FAs. There will be a tremendous amount of pressure to hit on their signings. last thing we want is another brand/webber/geiger like bust, which will again set them back for the duration of said contract.
The way I see it, they have one piece in holiday. The rest is crap. I wouldn't give bynum the amount of money it's going to take to sign him, which makes that trade a colossal failure (again, I think either way they end up losing that trade since they can't depend on bynum being on the court). so they need a frontcourt, a shooting guard, a bench, and a coach.
thank god for the flyers
i keep saying "healthy bynum" because that is what this team was built around. he's obviously not healthy. but you keep ignoring this huge white elephant every time you say "same old sixers." you fail to acknowledge that they did what you wanted them to do. the guy is just injured--and that is the one humungous reason for this disastrous season. gotta be rational about things fixer.
getting rid of iguadala for the right deal was certainly not easy. that's why it took so long. i don't think anyone said it would be...then again, you wanted to trade him for monte ellis, who is garbage...
--the trade was made under the assumption that bynum would be healthy or at least give you 65 games a year like he did in LA. you get that and boom--there is your piece to go along with jrue and thad and turner. that's the team that vegas had winning 48 games this year and would only improve in the subsequent years as holiday improved and they added more pieces. the injury throws a huge monkey wrench into the situation obviously. and obviously there is a huge amount of pressure with what to do now. at least they have some money to make a move. and at least ed stefanski isn't the one making that decision. it's not an easy decision to make.
no other team has 2 of the best players under 25. the sixers do. and one of them just became the youngest sixer ever to make an all star game. kid's going to be a star for the next decade. it's been15 years since this team has had that kind of young talent. i don't know what to do with bynum at this point. but all they need is either him or another legitimate big and they're instantly a much better team and close to contending. dominant center/all star point guard--that's a pretty nice combo that most teams do not have.
i would say giving your team a shot at the eastern conference finals is good enough ... if you want to be a championship contender ... well, you'll need to either be able to lure free agents, get lucky in the draft or have the league conspire for you ...
agreed.
...but how do we get the league to conspire for us?
dude, I never said I wanted monte ellis. you have me confused with someone else. I said ellis is exciting to watch, but he is not someone I want on a team I like. He's too much like iverson...not condusive to winning.
I never wanted iguodala run out of town either. I liked him more than most here. He was miscast and overpaid because the sixers can't manage a poker game, but I liked what he brought to the team.
turner may be shooting 3's better because he just stands in the corner, but his overall FG % is down 15 points this year. At best the dude is average offensively (and I think that's a stretch). On a good team he is a fringe starter/role player...if he's your third option then your team isn't good. as we have seen. I just don't see him the same way you do. I'd trade his ass in a heartbeat.
bynum has played 65+ games 2 times in 7 seasons (not including this year, which will make it 2 for 8). why would you suddenly expect him to play that many games? if anything as guys age, they become more injury prone, not less. talk about needing to be rational :roll:
I think you're overrated the two players under 25 thing. thad young is a solid player, but I don't think he's anything special. I like him but let's not get carried away. You're basing this premise of them having two of the top 25 players under 25 years old on a stupid internet power ranking list. Would you take any of these players over thad young? Wall, Drummond, Favors, Gallinari, MKG. Yep, I would too...and none of them are ranked in this stupid top 25 list.
The way you defend this franchise is funny. Like Casey Anthony's parents. As usual this team is going nowhere fast.
always liked iguadala too but he had to be moved in order for them to acquire a star like bynum. he got paid market price though. on par with lual deng that summer. still far too much. thank you ed stefanski :roll:
turner's fg% is down .015% this year. hardly a difference from last year. with a healthy bynum, you have a good team here.-- then you'd have bynum as the 1st option, jrue, and then i guess either thad or evan. so a 3rd or 4th option. that's certainly a role he fits in. but i'd trade him too, if it makes sense.
yeah bynum has averaged 56 games a year. i said 65 so, yeah, i was off a bit. but that has nothing to do with being rational or not. i'm as rational as it gets, especially compared to most of you guys in here.
so now the list is stupid.
casey anthony's parents? yeah that makes sense.
what polaris said above makes a lot of sense. the bynum injury has completely crippled this team. they'd be a 48-50 win team with him. without him, there's not much to get excited about except jrue playing at an elite level at the ripe old age of 22.
1 - yes, wrong...just like you are wrong to be optimistic about this abortion of a franchise
2 - iguodala was def overpaid. agree
3 - there's 'healthy bynum' again. telling you, that's a figment of your imagination. would you give him a new contract?
4 - you're irrational brother (healthy bynum). you have been on board with the direction of this team since collins and turner got here. that hasn't really worked out so well....and there's no end in sight to this endless cycle of mediocrity
5 - was the bynum injury really a surprise to you? I don't see how it possibly could be
6 - yes, the list is stupid. you brought it up. not sure why since it's pointless
and yes, holiday is a beast. just sucks that he's all they've got
I am not going to pretend to know all teams contract situations. And I'm too lazy to look this up.
Off top of my head...I like the brooklyn squad a lot. Indiana. Cleveland looks like they're in a nice spot with Irving, cap space, and high picks coming (believe they have 2 1's in the upcoming draft).
A better question is this...as a sixers fan, (other than holiday) what is there to be optimistic about? All I want is for this team to have a plan for a change. I'm sick of watching guys like tony battie, spencer hawes, nick young, royal ivey (who collins inexplicably gives minutes to in close games down the stretch...his inbounds pass vs SA was arguably the play of the game in that choke job the other night), kwame brown, andres nocioni, etc.
indiana is playing well, specifically george but they have long term health issues with granger and they just signed hibbert to a monster deal and he hasn't shown he deserves it ... that situation could go pear shaped ... brooklyn is playing well recently but their status hinges on the health of a big man who pretty much missed all last season and has missed 1/5 of this season's games already ... cleveland could be alright as kyrie is a stud but do they have enough pieces now or coming up to sustain anything and/or move to championship contention? ... hard to say ...
my primary point is simply that in the eastern conference ... you don't need a whole lot to compete and that building a championship contending team requires a bunch of shit to go your way (like 3 all stars conspiring to play in one place) ... and that the current makeup of the squad has at least one major building lock and serviceable players without a burden of a huge bad contract ... if bynum isn't going to work long term in philly - you at least have that cap space ... and really - you're not that far off from being a significantly better team ...
1. i looked it up. you did mention a trade proposal with ellis. you were hesitant about it, i was flat out against it. he stinks.
2. :thumbup:
3. i keep mentioning that because they were anticipating him being HEALTHY when they made the trade. you irrationally act like the team is just garbage and fail to acknowledge that they are garbage because the guy they are built around is injuried.
4. yeah i have been on board with this team since they got here. correct. this is year 3. they improved in years 1 and 2 and would be a team that could win 48-50 games if bynum was healthy. franchise was dead for a decade before the new regime got here. i think rationally and don't expect a team to improve overnight.
5. yes. i think it was a surprise to everyone that he has not played one second of basketball this year. he was supposed to be ready to go from day 1. never expected him to play 82 games though.
6. giant leap forward for jrue this year. thank god.
thank you.
I think brooklyn will give the heat all they can handle. miami is really soft and lopez, wallace, humphries can pound them down low. Really like the way the nets roster is put together.
I mentioned earlier in the thread that even if they don't re-sign bynum (which they shouldn't, but prob will...because they're the sixers), there are still 8 other teams who will have more cap money than the sixers this offseason. Look at their roster and tell me how that is possible. Like I said, they will have so little room for error with their FA acquisitions that I think it's far fetched to envision this team pulling all the right strings to get to where they need to be. You know how the nba works...you need to be terrible in order to get good. They were a bit unlucky the year they landed the 2 overall pick. Turner is not what you want there (cousins or favors paired with holiday would be nice right about now).
Just call them the Philly 7 or 6 seeds
I said that ellis isn't conducive to winning. Been steadfast with that opinion. He's AI lite.
Point #3 is the biggie here. Anticipating a guy with a history of injuries being healthy probably isn't the smartest idea. Now they will have to scramble for recourse, which probably doesn't exist.
would you bring bynum back? would you bring collins back?
the risk was absolutely worth the reward. everyone, including you, agreed at the time. you shed yourself of iguadala's contract and bring in a guy who did play every game last year (lockout shortened, sure) that would be considered the best center in the eastern conference. again-nobody expected him to be healthy for 82 games. but if you got the 56 or so games he averaged in la, i would take that.
when you look at all of the other trade rumors iguadala was associated with, this was far and above better than anything else...especially since his contract is up this summer.
i would absolutely bring collins back. i don't know what to do with bynum at this point. gotta wait and see what he looks like on the court as well what the free agent market looks like this summer. it's clearly not an easy decision.
geez, hindsight is 20/20 huh?
I said I liked the deal if they re-upped bynum. Even mentioned that I thought they gave up a lot and incurred a ton of risk
After further review, I don't think they should sign him...which means the trade is a loss. and a bad one at that.
not sure what this all means, other than they are still in the same position as the last 20 years
so you liked it
i think me and jearlpam said, back then, that we'd like it even if they don't resign him because of the cap space. i still agree with that...but again, i don't know what i would do at this point.
huge difference between this regime and the dreck we had in the post larry brown years.
does anyone in your family have their own business? an IT, telecom type thing.
I was at the doc with the wife a couple of weeks ago in bryn mawr...I parked next to a work van that had your name on it. I thought you might have been stalking me
I was apprenhensive. I liked it conditionally. not assured those conditions are going to come to fruition...and now I hope they don't, which would mean I didn't like it.
I don't think him showing anything this year helps them. Probably best if he sits out the year...that will keep his price tag down and their draft pick up. I know he's gonna try to play, but it's prob not in their best interest at this point
haha...was it blue?
see now, with the how the season has played out so far, i might be inclined to agree with that. especially since the pick is protected.
but they can't prohibit him from playing if he's healthy.