lebron beats (or will beat by career end) MJ in every stat. He's also better in terms of VORP...26.68 to 22.85 in playoffs. 108.61 to 104.44 in regular season
Lebron is the best player of all time. Fact
Post edited by The Fixer on
0
Options
The Juggler
Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,315
And while players are more athletic now, the competition was much greater in Jordan's era. The league is way too watered down now and the rules have made the game much softer than it was back in the 80's and 90's.
My old man laughed at people who said Jordan was better chamberlain. I don't know if he is right or wrong but he thought it was a joke anyone would even compare them
My dad says the same shit. He also hated sam hinkie which makes him clueless. wilt played against guys who were my size.
lebron is the greatest player of all time. jordan may have been a better scorer but he couldn't do half of the shit lebron does.
last night was awesome. curry is such a little bitch
Yeah, but the same thing could be said for LeBron. Dude is a genetic beast.
I just can't stand LeBron because a guy that big shouldn't be a whiny bitch.
today's nba has more talented players than the league has ever had.
lebron is such a tank that I don't think he gets half of the calls he should get.
this series has been awesome -- really hope the cavs win on sunday (4.5 point dogs)
He probably doesn't, but he sure doesn't shut the fuck up about it. I have no dog in any fight LeBron is involved in, I just like to watch him whine and bitch as he "crab dribbles" to the net while plowing through guys half his size and then bitch that they slapped his wrist.
so fouls don't count if guys are bigger? I'm confused, never knew that rule
No, they do. Just doesn't look right when a man playing among children whines. Top 3 player of all time, yes, but watching a guy do what he should do doesn't make me marvel, it should be expected. Which, at the same time, weirdly, I had no problem with him crowning himself the best ever while he was still in high school.
My old man laughed at people who said Jordan was better chamberlain. I don't know if he is right or wrong but he thought it was a joke anyone would even compare them
My dad says the same shit. He also hated sam hinkie which makes him clueless. wilt played against guys who were my size.
lebron is the greatest player of all time. jordan may have been a better scorer but he couldn't do half of the shit lebron does.
last night was awesome. curry is such a little bitch
Yeah, but the same thing could be said for LeBron. Dude is a genetic beast.
I just can't stand LeBron because a guy that big shouldn't be a whiny bitch.
today's nba has more talented players than the league has ever had.
lebron is such a tank that I don't think he gets half of the calls he should get.
this series has been awesome -- really hope the cavs win on sunday (4.5 point dogs)
He probably doesn't, but he sure doesn't shut the fuck up about it. I have no dog in any fight LeBron is involved in, I just like to watch him whine and bitch as he "crab dribbles" to the net while plowing through guys half his size and then bitch that they slapped his wrist.
so fouls don't count if guys are bigger? I'm confused, never knew that rule
No, they do. Just doesn't look right when a man playing among children whines. Top 3 player of all time, yes, but watching a guy do what he should do doesn't make me marvel, it should be expected. Which, at the same time, weirdly, I had no problem with him crowning himself the best ever while he was still in high school.
if size is all that matters than someone like manute bol should be the greatest of all time right?
And while players are more athletic now, the competition was much greater in Jordan's era. The league is way too watered down now and the rules have made the game much softer than it was back in the 80's and 90's.
totally disagree. all of the international players now. guys are more athletic and train better. advanced stats come into play. video more advanced for scouting. can also play pseudo zone defense now
My old man laughed at people who said Jordan was better chamberlain. I don't know if he is right or wrong but he thought it was a joke anyone would even compare them
My dad says the same shit. He also hated sam hinkie which makes him clueless. wilt played against guys who were my size.
lebron is the greatest player of all time. jordan may have been a better scorer but he couldn't do half of the shit lebron does.
last night was awesome. curry is such a little bitch
Yeah, but the same thing could be said for LeBron. Dude is a genetic beast.
I just can't stand LeBron because a guy that big shouldn't be a whiny bitch.
today's nba has more talented players than the league has ever had.
lebron is such a tank that I don't think he gets half of the calls he should get.
this series has been awesome -- really hope the cavs win on sunday (4.5 point dogs)
He probably doesn't, but he sure doesn't shut the fuck up about it. I have no dog in any fight LeBron is involved in, I just like to watch him whine and bitch as he "crab dribbles" to the net while plowing through guys half his size and then bitch that they slapped his wrist.
so fouls don't count if guys are bigger? I'm confused, never knew that rule
No, they do. Just doesn't look right when a man playing among children whines. Top 3 player of all time, yes, but watching a guy do what he should do doesn't make me marvel, it should be expected. Which, at the same time, weirdly, I had no problem with him crowning himself the best ever while he was still in high school.
if size is all that matters than someone like manute bol should be the greatest of all time right?
Hey, he sucked but at least Manute didn't have a vagina for a mouth.
My old man laughed at people who said Jordan was better chamberlain. I don't know if he is right or wrong but he thought it was a joke anyone would even compare them
My dad says the same shit. He also hated sam hinkie which makes him clueless. wilt played against guys who were my size.
lebron is the greatest player of all time. jordan may have been a better scorer but he couldn't do half of the shit lebron does.
last night was awesome. curry is such a little bitch
Yeah, but the same thing could be said for LeBron. Dude is a genetic beast.
I just can't stand LeBron because a guy that big shouldn't be a whiny bitch.
today's nba has more talented players than the league has ever had.
lebron is such a tank that I don't think he gets half of the calls he should get.
this series has been awesome -- really hope the cavs win on sunday (4.5 point dogs)
He probably doesn't, but he sure doesn't shut the fuck up about it. I have no dog in any fight LeBron is involved in, I just like to watch him whine and bitch as he "crab dribbles" to the net while plowing through guys half his size and then bitch that they slapped his wrist.
so fouls don't count if guys are bigger? I'm confused, never knew that rule
No, they do. Just doesn't look right when a man playing among children whines. Top 3 player of all time, yes, but watching a guy do what he should do doesn't make me marvel, it should be expected. Which, at the same time, weirdly, I had no problem with him crowning himself the best ever while he was still in high school.
if size is all that matters than someone like manute bol should be the greatest of all time right?
Hey, he sucked but at least Manute didn't have a vagina for a mouth.
all the guys cry in the nba these days. flopping and complaining is part of the game. tim duncan was the biggest crybaby in sports history
My old man laughed at people who said Jordan was better chamberlain. I don't know if he is right or wrong but he thought it was a joke anyone would even compare them
My dad says the same shit. He also hated sam hinkie which makes him clueless. wilt played against guys who were my size.
lebron is the greatest player of all time. jordan may have been a better scorer but he couldn't do half of the shit lebron does.
last night was awesome. curry is such a little bitch
Yeah, but the same thing could be said for LeBron. Dude is a genetic beast.
I just can't stand LeBron because a guy that big shouldn't be a whiny bitch.
today's nba has more talented players than the league has ever had.
lebron is such a tank that I don't think he gets half of the calls he should get.
this series has been awesome -- really hope the cavs win on sunday (4.5 point dogs)
He probably doesn't, but he sure doesn't shut the fuck up about it. I have no dog in any fight LeBron is involved in, I just like to watch him whine and bitch as he "crab dribbles" to the net while plowing through guys half his size and then bitch that they slapped his wrist.
so fouls don't count if guys are bigger? I'm confused, never knew that rule
No, they do. Just doesn't look right when a man playing among children whines. Top 3 player of all time, yes, but watching a guy do what he should do doesn't make me marvel, it should be expected. Which, at the same time, weirdly, I had no problem with him crowning himself the best ever while he was still in high school.
if size is all that matters than someone like manute bol should be the greatest of all time right?
Hey, he sucked but at least Manute didn't have a vagina for a mouth.
all the guys cry in the nba these days. flopping and complaining is part of the game. tim duncan was the biggest crybaby in sports history
Which, to some degree - and the fact that the Sixers have blown for the majority of my life - has kept me from being a bigger fan. My old man rant of the day - Lebron should shut up and there should be a diving foul.
My old man laughed at people who said Jordan was better chamberlain. I don't know if he is right or wrong but he thought it was a joke anyone would even compare them
My dad says the same shit. He also hated sam hinkie which makes him clueless. wilt played against guys who were my size.
lebron is the greatest player of all time. jordan may have been a better scorer but he couldn't do half of the shit lebron does.
last night was awesome. curry is such a little bitch
Yeah, but the same thing could be said for LeBron. Dude is a genetic beast.
I just can't stand LeBron because a guy that big shouldn't be a whiny bitch.
today's nba has more talented players than the league has ever had.
lebron is such a tank that I don't think he gets half of the calls he should get.
this series has been awesome -- really hope the cavs win on sunday (4.5 point dogs)
He probably doesn't, but he sure doesn't shut the fuck up about it. I have no dog in any fight LeBron is involved in, I just like to watch him whine and bitch as he "crab dribbles" to the net while plowing through guys half his size and then bitch that they slapped his wrist.
so fouls don't count if guys are bigger? I'm confused, never knew that rule
No, they do. Just doesn't look right when a man playing among children whines. Top 3 player of all time, yes, but watching a guy do what he should do doesn't make me marvel, it should be expected. Which, at the same time, weirdly, I had no problem with him crowning himself the best ever while he was still in high school.
if size is all that matters than someone like manute bol should be the greatest of all time right?
Hey, he sucked but at least Manute didn't have a vagina for a mouth.
all the guys cry in the nba these days. flopping and complaining is part of the game. tim duncan was the biggest crybaby in sports history
Which, to some degree - and the fact that the Sixers have blown for the majority of my life - has kept me from being a bigger fan. My old man rant of the day - Lebron should shut up and there should be a diving foul.
it's the soccer influence. guys act like they got shot half the time. it's embarrassing.
And while players are more athletic now, the competition was much greater in Jordan's era. The league is way too watered down now and the rules have made the game much softer than it was back in the 80's and 90's.
Well, LeBron James would've had no problem playing in that era of the 80's & 90's(or any other era). He's a 6' 8" 250LB locomotive.
Sure. He also would've bitched and complain even more than he does now because not everything was a foul back then.
However you can also say Jordan's numbers would've been even more impressive in today's NBA because of the weaker competition and softer nature of the game.
Well, LeBron James would've had no problem playing in that era of the 80's & 90's(or any other era). He's a 6' 8" 250LB locomotive.
Sure. He also would've bitched and complain even more than he does now because not everything was a foul back then.
However you can also say Jordan's numbers would've been even more impressive in today's NBA because of the weaker competition and softer nature of the game.
both guys would have done just fine in any era (lebron just would have done better since he is the better player)
lebron has never lost in the first round of the playoffs. how many times did that happen to jordan? MJ couldn't do shit in the playoffs until he had a loaded team (he was never the underdog in the finals -- I think lebron was the favorite once in the finals). lebron carried a bunch of scrubs to the finals. Look at this roster -- it's hilarious
Roster Glossary · SHARE · Embed · CSV · Export · PRE · LINK · ? No. Player Pos Ht Wt Birth Date Exp College 6 Shannon Brown SG 6-4 205 November 29, 1985 R Michigan State University 1 Daniel Gibson PG 6-2 190 February 27, 1986 R University of Texas at Austin 90 Drew Gooden PF 6-10 250 September 24, 1981 4 University of Kansas 32 Larry Hughes SG 6-5 184 January 23, 1979 8 Saint Louis University 11 Zydrunas Ilgauskas C 7-3 238 June 5, 1975 8 23 LeBron James SF 6-8 250 December 30, 1984 3 19 Damon Jones PG 6-3 185 August 25, 1976 8 University of Houston 27 Dwayne Jones PF 6-11 250 June 9, 1983 1 Saint Joseph's University 24 Donyell Marshall PF 6-9 218 May 18, 1973 12 University of Connecticut 14 Ira Newble SF 6-7 220 January 20, 1975 6 Miami University 3 Sasha Pavlovic SG 6-8 220 November 15, 1983 3 31 Scot Pollard C 6-11 265 February 12, 1975 9 University of Kansas 20 Eric Snow PG 6-3 190 April 24, 1973 11 Michigan State University 17 Anderson Varejao C 6-10 273 September 28, 1982 2 4 David Wesley SG 6-0 190 November 14, 1970 13 Baylor University
Post edited by The Fixer on
0
Options
The Juggler
Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,315
And while players are more athletic now, the competition was much greater in Jordan's era. The league is way too watered down now and the rules have made the game much softer than it was back in the 80's and 90's.
totally disagree. all of the international players now. guys are more athletic and train better. advanced stats come into play. video more advanced for scouting. can also play pseudo zone defense now
also, lebron has a higher career FG% than MJ
It's a fun debate and it's great for the NBA, which needs it. But, at this point in his career, to say LBJ is better than MJ is kind of funny to me.
Few things:
Your counting numbers from earlier are irrelevant. I'd be surprised if Lebron doesn't pass MJ in a lot of those categories at some point because he had a few years head start by not going to college. Plus MJ took a year off at the height of his career.
Their avg stats, overall, are relatively close. MJ was a much better scorer (30ppg vs 25ppg) while Lebron dished out more assists, (6.4 vs 5.4) as he handled the ball as point forward for much of his career. LBJ was a slightly better rebounder (6.6 to 6.3)--I'm surprised this wasn't a bigger margin. FG% is a wash (49.7-MJ/49.8-LBJ) but if you take out the 2 geriatric seasons with the Wizards, MJ was at 50.5%. Also, don't make it out like fg% is the determining factor on who is the better shooter. Shaq shot 60%. Lebron was one of the worst outside shooter's in the league this year: http://www.foxsports.com/nba/story/cavaliers-lebron-motivated-graphic-nba-worst-shooter-kobe-011116 . He got better as the season went on, but this was never something that was an issue for Jordan, especially in his prime. I'd expect his fg% to decline as he gets older too. 3pt%.LBJ currently has slight advantage while MJ was a much better free throw shooter, while averaging more steals and turning the ball over a lot less.
MJ owns the playoffs though and this is a big reason why most give him the nod--- averaging 5 more ppg, more steals/game, 9% better from the line, better from 3pt range, turned the ball over less, and shot the ball better. LBJ's assists and rebound numbers were better. Oh.....and Jordan won 6 titles.
Regarding you thinking the NBA is better now than it was in the 80's and 90's. Other than the league now having more foreign players, I don't see much more of an argument. Okay, guys are more athletic and they can prepare better with updated technology/training/advanced stats. Still doesn't take away from the fact that most players entering the league are waaaay less prepared than they were back in the day when they spent a few years in college. There's a reason why guys like Charles Barkley, one of the league's best ambassadors at this point, constantly harps on how terrible the league is compared to when he played. Players were much more fundamentally sound back then because they had more seasoning leading up to entering the league. I'll take the star players from back then over today's stars any day of the week plus. MJ was going up against hall of famers on a nightly basis.
Also contrary to what you said, teams were much more deeper back then they are now. You said something like Jordan played in an "expansion era." For the first 5 years of MJ's career, there were only 24 teams in the league. The Heat and Hornets were added in '88 with the Magic and Timberpuppies coming in a year later. Then they really screwed things up at the end of his career by adding two more teams. BUT---Lebron has played his entire career in this watered down version of the NBA. Expansion has watered down the talent pool in all pro sports leagues, including this one.
You also mentioned VORP. While it is true Lebron overtook him a few months ago in this stat, Kevin Garnet is 4th all time. Gotta take that stat with a big heaping grain of sea salt. Regarding win shares/game, MJ is #1 while LBJ is 6th.
In 5 years from now, this could be a different story, but at this point, MJ is still the greatest player ever. Lebron is probably 2--especially if the Cavs pull it out tomorrow night.
US Open and and Game 7 tomorrow night. Helluva day for sports.
0
Options
The Juggler
Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,315
edited June 2016
Also, goes without saying that the conference Lebron has played his entire career in has been utter and complete garbage since he entered the league.
You mentioned taking the Cavs to the Finals in 07. Great accomplishment, no doubt. You know who they beat to get there though?
1st round -- Wizards (lol) 41-41 2nd round- Nets (lol) 41-41 Then they beat the Pistons. Legitimate win there. But a cake walk against shit teams in the first two rounds though. I'd guess one of the easiest paths to the finals ever, really.
Well, LeBron James would've had no problem playing in that era of the 80's & 90's(or any other era). He's a 6' 8" 250LB locomotive.
Sure. He also would've bitched and complain even more than he does now because not everything was a foul back then.
However you can also say Jordan's numbers would've been even more impressive in today's NBA because of the weaker competition and softer nature of the game.
Hey!>Ther basketball players: they all cry foul>LOL!!!
Will the Sixers make a trade on draft day/ night, to get another high pick this year?
Lebron leads the only team in NBA history back from a 3-1 deficit to win the finals. did it with two road wins in the last three games. against the best team in nba history. only player to lead a playoff series in each of the following stats - points, rebounds, assists, steals, and blocks.
He is the best player of all time. Guy does everything on the court. No way in hell Jordan blocks iguodalas' shot at the end of the game. GOAT
in other news, steph curry is the most overrated player in nba history. it was a historic series folks
And while players are more athletic now, the competition was much greater in Jordan's era. The league is way too watered down now and the rules have made the game much softer than it was back in the 80's and 90's.
totally disagree. all of the international players now. guys are more athletic and train better. advanced stats come into play. video more advanced for scouting. can also play pseudo zone defense now
also, lebron has a higher career FG% than MJ
It's a fun debate and it's great for the NBA, which needs it. But, at this point in his career, to say LBJ is better than MJ is kind of funny to me.
Few things:
Your counting numbers from earlier are irrelevant. I'd be surprised if Lebron doesn't pass MJ in a lot of those categories at some point because he had a few years head start by not going to college. Plus MJ took a year off at the height of his career.
Their avg stats, overall, are relatively close. MJ was a much better scorer (30ppg vs 25ppg) while Lebron dished out more assists, (6.4 vs 5.4) as he handled the ball as point forward for much of his career. LBJ was a slightly better rebounder (6.6 to 6.3)--I'm surprised this wasn't a bigger margin. FG% is a wash (49.7-MJ/49.8-LBJ) but if you take out the 2 geriatric seasons with the Wizards, MJ was at 50.5%. Also, don't make it out like fg% is the determining factor on who is the better shooter. Shaq shot 60%. Lebron was one of the worst outside shooter's in the league this year: http://www.foxsports.com/nba/story/cavaliers-lebron-motivated-graphic-nba-worst-shooter-kobe-011116 . He got better as the season went on, but this was never something that was an issue for Jordan, especially in his prime. I'd expect his fg% to decline as he gets older too. 3pt%.LBJ currently has slight advantage while MJ was a much better free throw shooter, while averaging more steals and turning the ball over a lot less.
MJ owns the playoffs though and this is a big reason why most give him the nod--- averaging 5 more ppg, more steals/game, 9% better from the line, better from 3pt range, turned the ball over less, and shot the ball better. LBJ's assists and rebound numbers were better. Oh.....and Jordan won 6 titles.
Regarding you thinking the NBA is better now than it was in the 80's and 90's. Other than the league now having more foreign players, I don't see much more of an argument. Okay, guys are more athletic and they can prepare better with updated technology/training/advanced stats. Still doesn't take away from the fact that most players entering the league are waaaay less prepared than they were back in the day when they spent a few years in college. There's a reason why guys like Charles Barkley, one of the league's best ambassadors at this point, constantly harps on how terrible the league is compared to when he played. Players were much more fundamentally sound back then because they had more seasoning leading up to entering the league. I'll take the star players from back then over today's stars any day of the week plus. MJ was going up against hall of famers on a nightly basis.
Also contrary to what you said, teams were much more deeper back then they are now. You said something like Jordan played in an "expansion era." For the first 5 years of MJ's career, there were only 24 teams in the league. The Heat and Hornets were added in '88 with the Magic and Timberpuppies coming in a year later. Then they really screwed things up at the end of his career by adding two more teams. BUT---Lebron has played his entire career in this watered down version of the NBA. Expansion has watered down the talent pool in all pro sports leagues, including this one.
You also mentioned VORP. While it is true Lebron overtook him a few months ago in this stat, Kevin Garnet is 4th all time. Gotta take that stat with a big heaping grain of sea salt. Regarding win shares/game, MJ is #1 while LBJ is 6th.
In 5 years from now, this could be a different story, but at this point, MJ is still the greatest player ever. Lebron is probably 2--especially if the Cavs pull it out tomorrow night.
US Open and and Game 7 tomorrow night. Helluva day for sports.
jordan would have played more playoff games if he didn't lose early in the playoffs so frequently (until he was handed some of the most talented rosters of all time). don't hold jordan's lack of success against lebron.
does anyone listen to charles barkley anymore? that guys says nonsensical, outlandish shit all the time. I didn't think anyone cared (they shouldn't)
I also love the stat cherry picking. why don't jordan's wizards numbers count?
at the end of the day it's simple. lebron is only 31 and he's already proven to be a better all around player than jordan was. he's won (or at least gotten to the finals) with much less talented teams than jordan played on. jordan was a degenerate who got kicked out of the league and may have gotten his father murdered. I don't know why people continually overlook these things.
the best part is that we could get to watch 10 more years of lebron accomplishments. He's not done yet. He's a pleasure to watch
Jordan will always be considered the greatest because he showed up and won all 6 titles.
Lebron is up there as far as greatness. I love Lebron. Huge fan. He's not the best of all time though. I know he brought a lesser team this year to the promised land and Jordan never did that.
if i had the first pick in an nba draft that featured all the players in their prime ... i would pick LBJ ... is he the GOAT!? ... i'm not too sure ... what makes LBJ great is he is by far the most athletic person to ever play the game ... i do think in a different era - that would be neutralized a bit because teams would have fouled him hard and he's the kind of guy that likes to dish out the punishment but not take it ...
if i had the first pick in an nba draft that featured all the players in their prime ... i would pick LBJ ... is he the GOAT!? ... i'm not too sure ... what makes LBJ great is he is by far the most athletic person to ever play the game ... i do think in a different era - that would be neutralized a bit because teams would have fouled him hard and he's the kind of guy that likes to dish out the punishment but not take it ...
he's the best all around basketball player to ever walk the earth
if i had the first pick in an nba draft that featured all the players in their prime ... i would pick LBJ ... is he the GOAT!? ... i'm not too sure ... what makes LBJ great is he is by far the most athletic person to ever play the game ... i do think in a different era - that would be neutralized a bit because teams would have fouled him hard and he's the kind of guy that likes to dish out the punishment but not take it ...
he's the best all around basketball player to ever walk the earth
how can you say that!? ... the guy is not an elite shooter ...
I do find it funny that people choose to nitpick at Lebron rather than enjoy his greatness. His last three finals games were unreal
he played great but you called him the greatest all around basketball player ... not sure how you can say that when his shooting stats aren't in the elite category ...
Comments
points - 11th
assists - 18th
steals - 24th
rebounds - 109th
playoff rankings
points - 9th
assists - 3rd
steals - 4th
rebounds - 9th
blocks - 24th
lebron beats (or will beat by career end) MJ in every stat. He's also better in terms of VORP...26.68 to 22.85 in playoffs. 108.61 to 104.44 in regular season
Lebron is the best player of all time. Fact
And while players are more athletic now, the competition was much greater in Jordan's era. The league is way too watered down now and the rules have made the game much softer than it was back in the 80's and 90's.
also, lebron has a higher career FG% than MJ
However you can also say Jordan's numbers would've been even more impressive in today's NBA because of the weaker competition and softer nature of the game.
lebron has never lost in the first round of the playoffs. how many times did that happen to jordan? MJ couldn't do shit in the playoffs until he had a loaded team (he was never the underdog in the finals -- I think lebron was the favorite once in the finals). lebron carried a bunch of scrubs to the finals. Look at this roster -- it's hilarious
Roster Glossary · SHARE · Embed · CSV · Export · PRE · LINK · ?
No. Player Pos Ht Wt Birth Date Exp College
6 Shannon Brown SG 6-4 205 November 29, 1985 R Michigan State University
1 Daniel Gibson PG 6-2 190 February 27, 1986 R University of Texas at Austin
90 Drew Gooden PF 6-10 250 September 24, 1981 4 University of Kansas
32 Larry Hughes SG 6-5 184 January 23, 1979 8 Saint Louis University
11 Zydrunas Ilgauskas C 7-3 238 June 5, 1975 8
23 LeBron James SF 6-8 250 December 30, 1984 3
19 Damon Jones PG 6-3 185 August 25, 1976 8 University of Houston
27 Dwayne Jones PF 6-11 250 June 9, 1983 1 Saint Joseph's University
24 Donyell Marshall PF 6-9 218 May 18, 1973 12 University of Connecticut
14 Ira Newble SF 6-7 220 January 20, 1975 6 Miami University
3 Sasha Pavlovic SG 6-8 220 November 15, 1983 3
31 Scot Pollard C 6-11 265 February 12, 1975 9 University of Kansas
20 Eric Snow PG 6-3 190 April 24, 1973 11 Michigan State University
17 Anderson Varejao C 6-10 273 September 28, 1982 2
4 David Wesley SG 6-0 190 November 14, 1970 13 Baylor University
Few things:
Your counting numbers from earlier are irrelevant. I'd be surprised if Lebron doesn't pass MJ in a lot of those categories at some point because he had a few years head start by not going to college. Plus MJ took a year off at the height of his career.
Their avg stats, overall, are relatively close. MJ was a much better scorer (30ppg vs 25ppg) while Lebron dished out more assists, (6.4 vs 5.4) as he handled the ball as point forward for much of his career. LBJ was a slightly better rebounder (6.6 to 6.3)--I'm surprised this wasn't a bigger margin.
FG% is a wash (49.7-MJ/49.8-LBJ) but if you take out the 2 geriatric seasons with the Wizards, MJ was at 50.5%. Also, don't make it out like fg% is the determining factor on who is the better shooter. Shaq shot 60%. Lebron was one of the worst outside shooter's in the league this year: http://www.foxsports.com/nba/story/cavaliers-lebron-motivated-graphic-nba-worst-shooter-kobe-011116 . He got better as the season went on, but this was never something that was an issue for Jordan, especially in his prime. I'd expect his fg% to decline as he gets older too.
3pt%.LBJ currently has slight advantage while MJ was a much better free throw shooter, while averaging more steals and turning the ball over a lot less.
MJ owns the playoffs though and this is a big reason why most give him the nod--- averaging 5 more ppg, more steals/game, 9% better from the line, better from 3pt range, turned the ball over less, and shot the ball better. LBJ's assists and rebound numbers were better. Oh.....and Jordan won 6 titles.
Regarding you thinking the NBA is better now than it was in the 80's and 90's. Other than the league now having more foreign players, I don't see much more of an argument. Okay, guys are more athletic and they can prepare better with updated technology/training/advanced stats. Still doesn't take away from the fact that most players entering the league are waaaay less prepared than they were back in the day when they spent a few years in college. There's a reason why guys like Charles Barkley, one of the league's best ambassadors at this point, constantly harps on how terrible the league is compared to when he played. Players were much more fundamentally sound back then because they had more seasoning leading up to entering the league.
I'll take the star players from back then over today's stars any day of the week plus. MJ was going up against hall of famers on a nightly basis.
Also contrary to what you said, teams were much more deeper back then they are now. You said something like Jordan played in an "expansion era." For the first 5 years of MJ's career, there were only 24 teams in the league. The Heat and Hornets were added in '88 with the Magic and Timberpuppies coming in a year later. Then they really screwed things up at the end of his career by adding two more teams. BUT---Lebron has played his entire career in this watered down version of the NBA. Expansion has watered down the talent pool in all pro sports leagues, including this one.
You also mentioned VORP. While it is true Lebron overtook him a few months ago in this stat, Kevin Garnet is 4th all time. Gotta take that stat with a big heaping grain of sea salt. Regarding win shares/game, MJ is #1 while LBJ is 6th.
In 5 years from now, this could be a different story, but at this point, MJ is still the greatest player ever. Lebron is probably 2--especially if the Cavs pull it out tomorrow night.
US Open and and Game 7 tomorrow night. Helluva day for sports.
You mentioned taking the Cavs to the Finals in 07. Great accomplishment, no doubt. You know who they beat to get there though?
1st round -- Wizards (lol) 41-41
2nd round- Nets (lol) 41-41
Then they beat the Pistons. Legitimate win there. But a cake walk against shit teams in the first two rounds though. I'd guess one of the easiest paths to the finals ever, really.
Will the Sixers make a trade on draft day/ night, to get another high pick this year?
He is the best player of all time. Guy does everything on the court. No way in hell Jordan blocks iguodalas' shot at the end of the game. GOAT
in other news, steph curry is the most overrated player in nba history. it was a historic series folks
does anyone listen to charles barkley anymore? that guys says nonsensical, outlandish shit all the time. I didn't think anyone cared (they shouldn't)
I also love the stat cherry picking. why don't jordan's wizards numbers count?
at the end of the day it's simple. lebron is only 31 and he's already proven to be a better all around player than jordan was. he's won (or at least gotten to the finals) with much less talented teams than jordan played on. jordan was a degenerate who got kicked out of the league and may have gotten his father murdered. I don't know why people continually overlook these things.
the best part is that we could get to watch 10 more years of lebron accomplishments. He's not done yet. He's a pleasure to watch
Lebron is up there as far as greatness. I love Lebron. Huge fan. He's not the best of all time though. I know he brought a lesser team this year to the promised land and Jordan never did that.
Give lebron a few more years and let's see.
Tom O.
"I never had any friends later on like the ones I had when I was twelve. Jesus, does anyone?"
-The Writer
umm, no
I do find it funny that people choose to nitpick at Lebron rather than enjoy his greatness. His last three finals games were unreal