The dollars on the surface are terrible but it looks like the Yankees don't give a fuck about money. Already reports that this isn't going to stop them from potentially signing cano, although not at $200 mil, and they haven't even started with pitching yet
Dude does get hurt and his power has been down but he is a legit center fielder.
I always fucking hated him. Damon part 2
Hopefully not as clumsy as Damon.
Shows: 6.27.08 Hartford, CT/5.15.10 Hartford, CT/6.18.2011 Hartford, CT (EV Solo)/10.19.13 Brooklyn/10.25.13 Hartford
"Becoming a Bruce fan is like hitting puberty as a musical fan. It's inevitable." - dcfaithful
The dollars on the surface are terrible but it looks like the Yankees don't give a fuck about money. Already reports that this isn't going to stop them from potentially signing cano, although not at $200 mil, and they haven't even started with pitching yet
Dude does get hurt and his power has been down but he is a legit center fielder.
I don't think he sucked. He had a bad year. But there were a lot of big contracts this offseason. NYS killed him.
I like Hughes as much as anyone, really wanted him to do well and hope he does well with the Twins, but he sucked. All pitchers have to deal with YS and yeah it hurt him, but everyone is playing on the same field in that stadium.
This from RAB over the weekend
In his four years as a starter (since 2010) Hughes has averaged under 150 innings per year, and he failed to eclipse that mark in his walk year. Of the 96 pitchers who have recorded at least 500 innings since 2010, Hughes’s 4.65 ERA ranks 89th. In that time he has produced 3.1 bWAR*, which ranks 80th.
Still 8 million a year is a good deal for the Twins. Especially when other pitchers with similar stats and older got more money.
Like I said, I think it just indicates they are back to not giving a shit about money. It is clearly an overpay and would be a bad deal for 28 other teams. If arod and the rest of his contract isn't holding the Yankees back from making moves like this and overpaying players they want, then ellsbury in 5 or 6 years sure as hell won't be either
As long as it doesn't stop them from making other moves, which it doesn't seem like it will, then I'm down.
The dollars on the surface are terrible but it looks like the Yankees don't give a fuck about money.
obviously :fp:
If I had known then what I know now...
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
Read a good point, can't remember which article it was. The Yankees just don't get hampered by bad contracts. Arod (obviously),CC, Tex, and Burnett were all bad contracts, and now they are making big splashes to make up for the decline in production in some of those bad contracts, in 4 years from now they will make more big splashes to make up for the decline in Ellsbury, McCann, etc.
The Yankees are the Yankees and they know Ellsbury isn't going to be worth what he is getting paid over the course of the contract, but they just don't give a shit.
They have to sign Cano though, and they will. Loved the Sherman article from today.
Hey guys, has there been any word on Tex, Granderson, and Jeter as far as their condition to play in 2014?
Granderson might leave?
Tex will be cleared for full games in early March, so he'll get a little late start on Spring Training but should be good for the regular season. They need some insurance on him though, same injury that almost made Ortiz retire.
Jeter they say is healthy and has been lifting weights. He'll be good to go from day 1.
Granderson is good as gone. Mets may give him 4 years. Keep in mind he is 33, so it is basically the back half of the Ellsbury contract.
Hey guys, has there been any word on Tex, Granderson, and Jeter as far as their condition to play in 2014?
Granderson might leave?
Tex will be cleared for full games in early March, so he'll get a little late start on Spring Training but should be good for the regular season. They need some insurance on him though, same injury that almost made Ortiz retire.
Jeter they say is healthy and has been lifting weights. He'll be good to go from day 1.
Granderson is good as gone. Mets may give him 4 years. Keep in mind he is 33, so it is basically the back half of the Ellsbury contract.
Cool, thanks Cliffy.
Things might be OK...if some pitching comes through. I said "might."
Hey guys, has there been any word on Tex, Granderson, and Jeter as far as their condition to play in 2014?
Granderson might leave?
Tex will be cleared for full games in early March, so he'll get a little late start on Spring Training but should be good for the regular season. They need some insurance on him though, same injury that almost made Ortiz retire.
Jeter they say is healthy and has been lifting weights. He'll be good to go from day 1.
Granderson is good as gone. Mets may give him 4 years. Keep in mind he is 33, so it is basically the back half of the Ellsbury contract.
Cool, thanks Cliffy.
Things might be OK...if some pitching comes through. I said "might."
Yeah, man. I just feel good that for the first time in a couple years, they aren't pinching pennies.
The pitching situation is scary right now. It would be huge if they could get both Kuroda and Tanaka. That would be a top 4 of CC, Kuroda, Nova, Tanaka, Pineda/Nuno/Warren. Not great, and certainly some huge question marks, but I think that's the best case scenario. They also seem to have some trade chips, so who knows who is on the block. This offseason has been pretty insane so far.
Ellsbury - another great signing. Folks get too hung up on the Monopoly money thrown around it pro sports, especially baseball. And figuring out how much they are paying in year 7 of a contract is silly. All contracts are based on current value and paid out as an annuity (in effect). No club signs a 7 year deal thinking the 7th year will be value for value.
As for the $189M threshhold - I think they aren't waiting for the A-Rod decision, but it's pretty clear he's getting something. Whether it's half year, full year, 50 games, whatever - that's $ off the books. They don't care, and they can afford it, so what the hell.
I think it also puts Cano on notice that he can go play for Seattle for an extra sum that he and his kids will never get to spend, or he can stay and compete for WS and become the main homegrown cog in the Yankees' return to glory.
Also proves they think what I've been saying all along - Gardner is not an everyday player. I know right now he will be, but in an OF with Ells and Sori, who cares who your LF is. Batting 9th and playing LF - Gardner.
EDIT: Forgot about Ichiro in RF. Sori will be DH/LF, so Gardner will not be everyday player (nor will Ichiro) as he shouldn't be anyway.
Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
Ellsbury - another great signing. Folks get too hung up on the Monopoly money thrown around it pro sports, especially baseball. And figuring out how much they are paying in year 7 of a contract is silly. All contracts are based on current value and paid out as an annuity (in effect). No club signs a 7 year deal thinking the 7th year will be value for value.
As for the $189M threshhold - I think they aren't waiting for the A-Rod decision, but it's pretty clear he's getting something. Whether it's half year, full year, 50 games, whatever - that's $ off the books. They don't care, and they can afford it, so what the hell.
I think it also puts Cano on notice that he can go play for Seattle for an extra sum that he and his kids will never get to spend, or he can stay and compete for WS and become the main homegrown cog in the Yankees' return to glory.
Also proves they think what I've been saying all along - Gardner is not an everyday player. I know right now he will be, but in an OF with Ells and Sori, who cares who your LF is. Batting 9th and playing LF - Gardner.
EDIT: Forgot about Ichiro in RF. Sori will be DH/LF, so Gardner will not be everyday player (nor will Ichiro) as he shouldn't be anyway.
In 2013 Gardner had more walks and more extra base hits than Jacoby.
Jacoby had an ops of .781 to gardner's .759.
Considering you paid Gardner 2.8 mil last year and now just signed a very similar player to a 153 mil.
Sure another great signing!!!!!
In 2013 Gardner had more walks and more extra base hits than Jacoby.
Jacoby had an ops of .781 to gardner's .759.
Considering you paid Gardner 2.8 mil last year and now just signed a very similar player to a 153 mil.
Sure another great signing!!!!!
Fun with statistics!!! Ok. Let's go.
.298 BA with .355 OBP vs. .273 and .344
Who cares who has more walks? Totally irrelevant stat when you hit 25 points lower (and BTW that avg is still -slightly - above your career mark vs the other guy being spot on his career mark).
52 vs 24 SB with 4 CS vs 9 CS when the latter's sole calling card is stealing bases
172 Hits to 147 Hits - I'll take the 25 extra hits over the 5 extra Walks (and the 35 extra K's)
And even though they are better for Ells, ignore the stats - anyone who thinks they are equivalent players doesn't really watch baseball.
Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
In 2013 Gardner had more walks and more extra base hits than Jacoby.
Jacoby had an ops of .781 to gardner's .759.
Considering you paid Gardner 2.8 mil last year and now just signed a very similar player to a 153 mil.
Sure another great signing!!!!!
Fun with statistics!!! Ok. Let's go.
.298 BA with .355 OBP vs. .273 and .344
Who cares who has more walks? Totally irrelevant stat when you hit 25 points lower (and BTW that avg is still -slightly - above your career mark vs the other guy being spot on his career mark).
52 vs 24 SB with 4 CS vs 9 CS when the latter's sole calling card is stealing bases
172 Hits to 147 Hits - I'll take the 25 extra hits over the 5 extra Walks (and the 35 extra K's)
And even though they are better for Ells, ignore the stats - anyone who thinks they are equivalent players doesn't really watch baseball.
I think the only argument here is: is Ellsbury worth $153,000,000 for numbers like that? No need to answer.
In 2013 Gardner had more walks and more extra base hits than Jacoby.
Jacoby had an ops of .781 to gardner's .759.
Considering you paid Gardner 2.8 mil last year and now just signed a very similar player to a 153 mil.
Sure another great signing!!!!!
Fun with statistics!!! Ok. Let's go.
.298 BA with .355 OBP vs. .273 and .344
Who cares who has more walks? Totally irrelevant stat when you hit 25 points lower (and BTW that avg is still -slightly - above your career mark vs the other guy being spot on his career mark).
52 vs 24 SB with 4 CS vs 9 CS when the latter's sole calling card is stealing bases
172 Hits to 147 Hits - I'll take the 25 extra hits over the 5 extra Walks (and the 35 extra K's)
And even though they are better for Ells, ignore the stats - anyone who thinks they are equivalent players doesn't really watch baseball.
I think the only argument here is: is Ellsbury worth $153,000,000 for numbers like that? No need to answer.
Salary numbers are silly. In the scheme of the MLB pay scale - yes. You win with elite players. The mediocre (Gardner) are a dime a dozen. You can replace him easily, and yet he would still get $8-$10 million on the open market. I mean is Phil Hughes worth $24 million? Is Scott Kazmir worth $11 mil a year? It's stupid. Jim Johnson $10 million a year? Those guys are throw away guys. So, yes. Ellsbury is worth $17 or $18 mill. He's more than twice the player of those guys.
EDIT: It's "easy" to get to average. It's that last little bit to stuff like a .300 BA (not all that prevalent in MLB), and 50SB and fielding, etc. that you pay a premium for.
Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
In 2013 Gardner had more walks and more extra base hits than Jacoby.
Jacoby had an ops of .781 to gardner's .759.
Considering you paid Gardner 2.8 mil last year and now just signed a very similar player to a 153 mil.
Sure another great signing!!!!!
Fun with statistics!!! Ok. Let's go.
.298 BA with .355 OBP vs. .273 and .344
Who cares who has more walks? Totally irrelevant stat when you hit 25 points lower (and BTW that avg is still -slightly - above your career mark vs the other guy being spot on his career mark).
52 vs 24 SB with 4 CS vs 9 CS when the latter's sole calling card is stealing bases
172 Hits to 147 Hits - I'll take the 25 extra hits over the 5 extra Walks (and the 35 extra K's)
And even though they are better for Ells, ignore the stats - anyone who thinks they are equivalent players doesn't really watch baseball.
the only thing i'll say about this is don't undermind a player's OBP (similar numbers between these two players). in my opinion a player's BA is slightly over rated. it's all about OBP, and should always be mentioned before their BA. it's a baseball player's job to get on base. especially a player like gardner. eat pitches, inflate the pitcher's pitch count, take first, try and swipe some bags, go from first to third on a single. so comparing the .355 vs .344 is a little more fair in my eyes.
remember when giambi was at the end of his yankee career and had a batting average of .179? he was still in the lineup on a regular basis because his OBP was around the .400 mark. dude drew a shitload of walks, got on base, successful at bat.
In 2013 Gardner had more walks and more extra base hits than Jacoby.
Jacoby had an ops of .781 to gardner's .759.
Considering you paid Gardner 2.8 mil last year and now just signed a very similar player to a 153 mil.
Sure another great signing!!!!!
Fun with statistics!!! Ok. Let's go.
.298 BA with .355 OBP vs. .273 and .344
Who cares who has more walks? Totally irrelevant stat when you hit 25 points lower (and BTW that avg is still -slightly - above your career mark vs the other guy being spot on his career mark).
52 vs 24 SB with 4 CS vs 9 CS when the latter's sole calling card is stealing bases
172 Hits to 147 Hits - I'll take the 25 extra hits over the 5 extra Walks (and the 35 extra K's)
And even though they are better for Ells, ignore the stats - anyone who thinks they are equivalent players doesn't really watch baseball.
I think the only argument here is: is Ellsbury worth $153,000,000 for numbers like that? No need to answer.
Lets just say I'm very glad the Red Sox didn't sign him to THAT contract!
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Who cares who has more walks? Totally irrelevant stat when you hit 25 points lower (and BTW that avg is still -slightly - above your career mark vs the other guy being spot on his career mark).
52 vs 24 SB with 4 CS vs 9 CS when the latter's sole calling card is stealing bases
172 Hits to 147 Hits - I'll take the 25 extra hits over the 5 extra Walks (and the 35 extra K's)
And even though they are better for Ells, ignore the stats - anyone who thinks they are equivalent players doesn't really watch baseball.
I think the only argument here is: is Ellsbury worth $153,000,000 for numbers like that? No need to answer.
Salary numbers are silly. In the scheme of the MLB pay scale - yes. You win with elite players. The mediocre (Gardner) are a dime a dozen. You can replace him easily, and yet he would still get $8-$10 million on the open market. I mean is Phil Hughes worth $24 million? Is Scott Kazmir worth $11 mil a year? It's stupid. Jim Johnson $10 million a year? Those guys are throw away guys. So, yes. Ellsbury is worth $17 or $18 mill. He's more than twice the player of those guys.
EDIT: It's "easy" to get to average. It's that last little bit to stuff like a .300 BA (not all that prevalent in MLB), and 50SB and fielding, etc. that you pay a premium for.
Yeah, there are some bad deals out there for sure, but I thought Ells contract was for 7 years. Wouldnt that mean nearly 22,000,000 per year? I think I read that its like the third or fourth highest contract? ridiculous.
I think maybe he's worth 12-15m, if he's 100% healthy.
Yeah, there are some bad deals out there for sure, but I thought Ells contract was for 7 years. Wouldnt that mean nearly 22,000,000 per year? I think I read that its like the third or fourth highest contract? ridiculous.
I think maybe he's worth 12-15m, if he's 100% healthy.
The thing is - what does it matter? You are right I got the number wrong. But, $22 Mill, $15 mill - what does it matter? But, having a top leadoff guy to build a line up around is critical. Should the Yankees lose him over $3 million a year? Does it really matter?
Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
Yeah, there are some bad deals out there for sure, but I thought Ells contract was for 7 years. Wouldnt that mean nearly 22,000,000 per year? I think I read that its like the third or fourth highest contract? ridiculous.
I think maybe he's worth 12-15m, if he's 100% healthy.
The thing is - what does it matter? You are right I got the number wrong. But, $22 Mill, $15 mill - what does it matter? But, having a top leadoff guy to build a line up around is critical. Should the Yankees lose him over $3 million a year? Does it really matter?
It depends on what you mean by "does it matter." If salary doesnt reflect play on the field, then NO, none of it matters. Of course not. But we're discussing the Yankees and their practices on and off the field. Its just something to discuss because its interesting. I think it matters because it makes me hate baseball. If the Yankees want to over pay for slightly better than average players, fine. Do they raise their ticket prices to pay for this? Is the park sold out most of the time? Things that i'm curious about.
Another point is, would anyone be talking about this if there was some kind of way to put a dollar value on a players skills and what they bring to a team when 100% healthy? Few people will question Jeter or Cabrera. I flipped out when I heard they were going to pay 12 million to Youklis last year. How'd that work out?
Bottom line is, Ellsbury is not worth that much. Not even close. just my opinion. Maybe he'll prove me wrong. We'll see.
Comments
My thoughts exactly
"Becoming a Bruce fan is like hitting puberty as a musical fan. It's inevitable." - dcfaithful
Ha he may be at the end of it
good grief. thats just ridiculous. At least he isnt singed until hes' 43 year old I guess. :fp:
Still 8 million a year is a good deal for the Twins. Especially when other pitchers with similar stats and older got more money.
As long as it doesn't stop them from making other moves, which it doesn't seem like it will, then I'm down.
http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/ ... s-for-now/
Cano will be back, unless he signs for over $200 mil
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/yankees- ... ging-well/
obviously :fp:
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
Well, after Hal and co shoving plan $189 million down our throats for the last 2 years, seeing them go all out already is a little surprising
The better question is who's going to pitch?
The Yankees are the Yankees and they know Ellsbury isn't going to be worth what he is getting paid over the course of the contract, but they just don't give a shit.
They have to sign Cano though, and they will. Loved the Sherman article from today.
http://nypost.com/2013/12/03/taking-mar ... cost-cano/
Granderson might leave?
Tex will be cleared for full games in early March, so he'll get a little late start on Spring Training but should be good for the regular season. They need some insurance on him though, same injury that almost made Ortiz retire.
Jeter they say is healthy and has been lifting weights. He'll be good to go from day 1.
Granderson is good as gone. Mets may give him 4 years. Keep in mind he is 33, so it is basically the back half of the Ellsbury contract.
Cool, thanks Cliffy.
Things might be OK...if some pitching comes through. I said "might."
Yeah, man. I just feel good that for the first time in a couple years, they aren't pinching pennies.
The pitching situation is scary right now. It would be huge if they could get both Kuroda and Tanaka. That would be a top 4 of CC, Kuroda, Nova, Tanaka, Pineda/Nuno/Warren. Not great, and certainly some huge question marks, but I think that's the best case scenario. They also seem to have some trade chips, so who knows who is on the block. This offseason has been pretty insane so far.
As for the $189M threshhold - I think they aren't waiting for the A-Rod decision, but it's pretty clear he's getting something. Whether it's half year, full year, 50 games, whatever - that's $ off the books. They don't care, and they can afford it, so what the hell.
I think it also puts Cano on notice that he can go play for Seattle for an extra sum that he and his kids will never get to spend, or he can stay and compete for WS and become the main homegrown cog in the Yankees' return to glory.
Also proves they think what I've been saying all along - Gardner is not an everyday player. I know right now he will be, but in an OF with Ells and Sori, who cares who your LF is. Batting 9th and playing LF - Gardner.
EDIT: Forgot about Ichiro in RF. Sori will be DH/LF, so Gardner will not be everyday player (nor will Ichiro) as he shouldn't be anyway.
In 2013 Gardner had more walks and more extra base hits than Jacoby.
Jacoby had an ops of .781 to gardner's .759.
Considering you paid Gardner 2.8 mil last year and now just signed a very similar player to a 153 mil.
Sure another great signing!!!!!
Fun with statistics!!! Ok. Let's go.
.298 BA with .355 OBP vs. .273 and .344
Who cares who has more walks? Totally irrelevant stat when you hit 25 points lower (and BTW that avg is still -slightly - above your career mark vs the other guy being spot on his career mark).
52 vs 24 SB with 4 CS vs 9 CS when the latter's sole calling card is stealing bases
172 Hits to 147 Hits - I'll take the 25 extra hits over the 5 extra Walks (and the 35 extra K's)
And even though they are better for Ells, ignore the stats - anyone who thinks they are equivalent players doesn't really watch baseball.
I think the only argument here is: is Ellsbury worth $153,000,000 for numbers like that? No need to answer.
Salary numbers are silly. In the scheme of the MLB pay scale - yes. You win with elite players. The mediocre (Gardner) are a dime a dozen. You can replace him easily, and yet he would still get $8-$10 million on the open market. I mean is Phil Hughes worth $24 million? Is Scott Kazmir worth $11 mil a year? It's stupid. Jim Johnson $10 million a year? Those guys are throw away guys. So, yes. Ellsbury is worth $17 or $18 mill. He's more than twice the player of those guys.
EDIT: It's "easy" to get to average. It's that last little bit to stuff like a .300 BA (not all that prevalent in MLB), and 50SB and fielding, etc. that you pay a premium for.
the only thing i'll say about this is don't undermind a player's OBP (similar numbers between these two players). in my opinion a player's BA is slightly over rated. it's all about OBP, and should always be mentioned before their BA. it's a baseball player's job to get on base. especially a player like gardner. eat pitches, inflate the pitcher's pitch count, take first, try and swipe some bags, go from first to third on a single. so comparing the .355 vs .344 is a little more fair in my eyes.
remember when giambi was at the end of his yankee career and had a batting average of .179? he was still in the lineup on a regular basis because his OBP was around the .400 mark. dude drew a shitload of walks, got on base, successful at bat.
Lets just say I'm very glad the Red Sox didn't sign him to THAT contract!
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Yeah, there are some bad deals out there for sure, but I thought Ells contract was for 7 years. Wouldnt that mean nearly 22,000,000 per year? I think I read that its like the third or fourth highest contract? ridiculous.
I think maybe he's worth 12-15m, if he's 100% healthy.
The thing is - what does it matter? You are right I got the number wrong. But, $22 Mill, $15 mill - what does it matter? But, having a top leadoff guy to build a line up around is critical. Should the Yankees lose him over $3 million a year? Does it really matter?
It depends on what you mean by "does it matter." If salary doesnt reflect play on the field, then NO, none of it matters. Of course not. But we're discussing the Yankees and their practices on and off the field. Its just something to discuss because its interesting. I think it matters because it makes me hate baseball. If the Yankees want to over pay for slightly better than average players, fine. Do they raise their ticket prices to pay for this? Is the park sold out most of the time? Things that i'm curious about.
Another point is, would anyone be talking about this if there was some kind of way to put a dollar value on a players skills and what they bring to a team when 100% healthy? Few people will question Jeter or Cabrera. I flipped out when I heard they were going to pay 12 million to Youklis last year. How'd that work out?
Bottom line is, Ellsbury is not worth that much. Not even close. just my opinion. Maybe he'll prove me wrong. We'll see.