You mean our Dear Leader Obama has not kept one of his campaign promises ?!
Oh wait. He didn't start to bring the troops home, either. Or give Congress (and we the public) five days to read new bills before they are voted on. Or refuse to raise taxes on citizens making under $125,000 per year.
They were all lies! He said whatever he needed to get elected, and then continued the policies of George Bush. Democrats and Republicans are the same. They are politicians, which mean they work for the banks and the oil companies and the corporations.
politicians=liars..always
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
PJ has the right to support what ever cause they choose, however this is a huge disappointment to me. There are so many other issues the band could focus on, it's sad to see their hatred of Bush take them over. I too was so sick of the crazy speeches during concerts, however I made the best of it and turned those 5 minute rants into bathroom breaks, because I sure as hell wasn't going to miss a song. Yes, I know a lot of their songs are political, but that's what I paid for, not Ed's speeches using soldiers coffins as his soapbox. I wish they could see it from a fans point of view and see what they are doing to their fans...one minute you're singing along, happy as can be, to be at a PJ show, sharing smiles and cheers with your fellow fans. Next thing you know Ed is foaming at the mouth and the unity the fans have goes to shit as the person next to you has a different opinion than you, and you spend the rest of the night giving shit looks to the ahole that keeps elbowing you while jumping up and down instead of the high fives you were giving 10 minutes before. I wish PJ would realize fame doesn't equal wisdom. Oh well, to each their own.
umm ... are you familiar with this band? nothing is any different since day 1. ed has always made "speeches" or done some antics onstage, in one form or another. it's part of ed ... it's part of pearl jam. i'm not trying to fuck with you. i just don't know why you're not used to it by now. also, whether or not you agree with what ed is saying or doing, how do you feel about the fact that he's actually willing to openly say or do that stuff? i admire his guts, even when i don't agree with him.
Yes I am familiar with the band, I've been a fan club member for 10+ years. Yes I know Ed has always used the stage to 'vent', however I'd much prefer to listen to him vent through his music. As far as Ed having guts to speak...ummm it's not like everyone is going to walk out and he knows it (some did a few years back and who ever those people are, I always think of them with a smile). What you call guts I call arrogance, for lack of better word. I know full and well what Ed's views are, but there is such thing as overkill. I used to listen to what he said, now it's all the same hate and anger, pretty ironic or even hypocritical from a guys who just wants peace. I love PJ"s songs, and I'm a loyal fan even through all of the politics, I just wish they would save it for the songs, because all his political speeches put together will never get more than a polite eye roll from me, Ive heard it too many times. Now a song...that's another story, PJ's songs will always move me and I will always be listening.
"Kat wrote:The fact of the matter is that Guantanamo hurts our troops and makes America less safe. It has created enemies, some of whom surely went on to harm or kill American troops."
you think that if Gitmo disappears that terrorist will be like "wow Gitmo is closed lets stop bombing and give peace a chance"
Im not surprised that there are so many 10c members being so naive or deathwishers. Naive, because this campaign, no where, did it express the release of "terrorists". Drug dealers from all latin america are taken to court IN THE USA. The same should be done with suspects of war crimes, like terrorist attacks. Not POW´s.
Deathwishers, "kill all the terrorists!". What kind of a lame ass expression is that? Are you willing to kill all of them yourself? A person like this, should never have a handgun in their hands. I don´t own one, cuase i have a very bad temper. If someone is to honk their horn at me in traffic, for sure I would kill that person during a burst of anger. I feel bad after killing a bug! Not to mention a human being.
I have a friend that "accepted jesus". I haven´t seen him since college, about 4 years ago. Inquiring on his thoughts on passages of the bible, he once told me that people that would not accept Jesus will go to hell. So I asked him about the people in asia and arabia and whatnot. He said to me that they are in the bible, and that THEY ARE ALL DOOMED TO HELL. It´s in here, in the bible, he told me. This is a dude, that an year earlier was fucking hookers, and did not even ask what religion these chicks were. He was not a bad person, as he is probably not a bad person now. But to think this way, reminds me of all the scums around the world that only wish death where ever they see fit.
Closing the gitmo will not put an end to war. Never. But I agree with this campaign regarding the music and closing of.
PJ has the right to support what ever cause they choose, however this is a huge disappointment to me. There are so many other issues the band could focus on, it's sad to see their hatred of Bush take them over. I too was so sick of the crazy speeches during concerts, however I made the best of it and turned those 5 minute rants into bathroom breaks, because I sure as hell wasn't going to miss a song. Yes, I know a lot of their songs are political, but that's what I paid for, not Ed's speeches using soldiers coffins as his soapbox. I wish they could see it from a fans point of view and see what they are doing to their fans...one minute you're singing along, happy as can be, to be at a PJ show, sharing smiles and cheers with your fellow fans. Next thing you know Ed is foaming at the mouth and the unity the fans have goes to shit as the person next to you has a different opinion than you, and you spend the rest of the night giving shit looks to the ahole that keeps elbowing you while jumping up and down instead of the high fives you were giving 10 minutes before. I wish PJ would realize fame doesn't equal wisdom. Oh well, to each their own.
umm ... are you familiar with this band? nothing is any different since day 1. ed has always made "speeches" or done some antics onstage, in one form or another. it's part of ed ... it's part of pearl jam. i'm not trying to fuck with you. i just don't know why you're not used to it by now. also, whether or not you agree with what ed is saying or doing, how do you feel about the fact that he's actually willing to openly say or do that stuff? i admire his guts, even when i don't agree with him.
Yes I am familiar with the band, I've been a fan club member for 10+ years. Yes I know Ed has always used the stage to 'vent', however I'd much prefer to listen to him vent through his music. As far as Ed having guts to speak...ummm it's not like everyone is going to walk out and he knows it (some did a few years back and who ever those people are, I always think of them with a smile). What you call guts I call arrogance, for lack of better word. I know full and well what Ed's views are, but there is such thing as overkill. I used to listen to what he said, now it's all the same hate and anger, pretty ironic or even hypocritical from a guys who just wants peace. I love PJ"s songs, and I'm a loyal fan even through all of the politics, I just wish they would save it for the songs, because all his political speeches put together will never get more than a polite eye roll from me, Ive heard it too many times. Now a song...that's another story, PJ's songs will always move me and I will always be listening.
ok ... that was well said, and i can respect what you're saying. but i guess my point remains the same: you're hoping that ed will suddenly reverse his position on speaking out at shows. you want him to stop doing something he's always done. and you want him to stop doing something that he clearly believes is the right thing to do. i don't think it's appropriate to ask him to do that. BUT ... i hear you. he might actually reach more people and lose fewer fans who disagree with his views if he just kept his political opinions in the songs. valid point.
sorry to drone on ... but one other thing. i don't see ed's "hate and anger" as hypocritical at all. even peaceful citizens can be expected to respond with outrage when they feel their country and their freedoms are being destroyed.
ok ... that was well said, and i can respect what you're saying. but i guess my point remains the same: you're hoping that ed will suddenly reverse his position on speaking out at shows. you want him to stop doing something he's always done. and you want him to stop doing something that he clearly believes is the right thing to do. i don't think it's appropriate to ask him to do that. BUT ... i hear you. he might actually reach more people and lose fewer fans who disagree with his views if he just kept his political opinions in the songs. valid point.
sorry to drone on ... but one other thing. i don't see ed's "hate and anger" as hypocritical at all. even peaceful citizens can be expected to respond with outrage when they feel their country and their freedoms are being destroyed.
No I don't want Ed to reverse his position or stop bringing up causes he supports at shows, as you said that's what he's always done, that's who he is. In all honesty what this really comes down to is where you stand politically, so I as a conservative tend to tire of the politcal rants. When Ed does start on politics, as mentioned before, I make the best of it and take a bathroom break (I know tmi ). To each their own. One really good thing that could come from this is PJ gets so angry they have to write a few songs
"Kat wrote:The fact of the matter is that Guantanamo hurts our troops and makes America less safe. It has created enemies, some of whom surely went on to harm or kill American troops."
you think that if Gitmo disappears that terrorist will be like "wow Gitmo is closed lets stop bombing and give peace a chance"
really where are your heads at on this?
I think the point is that we would have been better off if there never had been a Gitmo.
get the people in gitmo to a fair trial NOW. then close it, NOW. why has this taken so long?? the longer it stays open the more bad blood that gets spilled.
i support the band in wanting to close this down. it's all bad.
"Kat wrote:The fact of the matter is that Guantanamo hurts our troops and makes America less safe. It has created enemies, some of whom surely went on to harm or kill American troops."
you think that if Gitmo disappears that terrorist will be like "wow Gitmo is closed lets stop bombing and give peace a chance"
really where are your heads at on this?
yea those same "terrorists" that were on american payroll in the 80's. it's easy to forget bout facts when they don't fit your view.
if someone was using your art as weapon i really doubt you would just blow it off
it's the american way right :roll:
Ron: I just don't feel like going out tonight
Sammi: Wanna just break up?
"Kat wrote:The fact of the matter is that Guantanamo hurts our troops and makes America less safe. It has created enemies, some of whom surely went on to harm or kill American troops."
you think that if Gitmo disappears that terrorist will be like "wow Gitmo is closed lets stop bombing and give peace a chance"
really where are your heads at on this?
yea those same "terrorists" that were on american payroll in the 80's. it's easy to forget bout facts when they don't fit your view.
if someone was using your art as weapon i really doubt you would just blow it off
it's the american way right :roll:
this is so bad..really..discasting foto..no matter what uniform or nationality have the troops...
this is not the way to go with humans..shit i cant even think they way those people feel....
but im fuckin sure that some of them that wasnt "terrorist" if they ever go back home they will want revenge...
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
"Kat wrote:The fact of the matter is that Guantanamo hurts our troops and makes America less safe. It has created enemies, some of whom surely went on to harm or kill American troops."
you think that if Gitmo disappears that terrorist will be like "wow Gitmo is closed lets stop bombing and give peace a chance"
really where are your heads at on this?
yea those same "terrorists" that were on american payroll in the 80's. it's easy to forget bout facts when they don't fit your view.
if someone was using your art as weapon i really doubt you would just blow it off
it's the american way right :roll:
this is so bad..really..discasting foto..no matter what uniform or nationality have the troops...
this is not the way to go with humans..shit i cant even think they way those people feel....
but im fuckin sure that some of them that wasnt "terrorist" if they ever go back home they will want revenge...
I say these guys aren't doing so bad...they still have there heads attached!
I bet Americans treats there prisoners of war better than any other country in this world...
“We the people are the rightful masters of bothCongress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
I bet Americans treats there prisoners of war better than any other country in this world...
No offence intended Aerial, to you or to Americans in general (who i admire and respect - except Glen Beck and Sean Hanity- they're douche bags), but I'd like to take you up on that bet.
You probably need to qualify your remarks with "Before Bush, Rumsfeld and Cheney" Americans treat"ed" their prisoners of war better than any other country in this world...
Unfortunaley this War On Terror has seen us (Americans are not soley responsible for GITMO - all the allied Governments have agreed to it) lose a bit of what we hold dear in the name of 'freedom'.
There is a better way and we need to show the world that we are the best, most humane and also that we don't take shit.
I bet Americans treats there prisoners of war better than any other country in this world...
next time u see in CNN the next bomb,the next attack u will not be sure if the heads was of those people or their brothers or cousin....
the only way to end this is peace...blood bring blood,pain -pain..i really dont get how u dont understand this
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
I bet Americans treats there prisoners of war better than any other country in this world...
next time u see in CNN the next bomb,the next attack u will not be sure if the heads was of those people or their brothers or cousin....
the only way to end this is peace...blood bring blood,pain -pain..i really dont get how u dont understand this
I don't think you've put this too well and I'd not be surprised if you cop a fair bit of flack.
Let's all hope there is no next bomb attack - anywhere. A couple of hundred innocent civilians just lost their lives in Iraq thanks to murderers with bombs. I think those who would do such acts are hardly influenced by photos such as this - they've already got their mission in life. it takes more than a photo to influence these people.
America was complacent before 911 and the people in charge (CIA, FBI, admin) were obviously asleep at the wheel, as someone who has just travelled in and out of the USA (and has since the late 80s), that is no longer the case, security is taken very seriously. I think Pearl Harbour had a similar effect in waking up a sleeping tiger. By in large Americans are peace loving and have little interest in getting involved in other country's internal issues. This is why the people were so shocked when 911 happened.
But what I hope you are trying to say is hate breeds hate, violence breeds violence and somewhere we need to break this circle of violence.
next time u see in CNN the next bomb,the next attack u will not be sure if the heads was of those people or their brothers or cousin....
the only way to end this is peace...blood bring blood,pain -pain..i really dont get how u dont understand this
I don't think you've put this too well and I'd not be surprised if you cop a fair bit of flack.
Let's all hope there is no next bomb attack - anywhere. A couple of hundred innocent civilians just lost their lives in Iraq thanks to murderers with bombs. I think those who would do such acts are hardly influenced by photos such as this - they've already got their mission in life. it takes more than a photo to influence these people.
America was complacent before 911 and the people in charge (CIA, FBI, admin) were obviously asleep at the wheel, as someone who has just travelled in and out of the USA (and has since the late 80s), that is no longer the case, security is taken very seriously. I think Pearl Harbour had a similar effect in waking up a sleeping tiger. By in large Americans are peace loving and have little interest in getting involved in other country's internal issues. This is why the people were so shocked when 911 happened.
But what I hope you are trying to say is hate breeds hate, violence breeds violence and somewhere we need to break this circle of violence.
if u read all my post in this thread u can understand easily what i mean...
let me put it this way..how many times your country been attack by bombs in the center of syndey?or my country too..or Austria ,Argentina,Japan...from middle east countries..from "terrorist."from Muslims..zero....u can understand why i guess..there are to close to my country,but never attack us..its easy to get..
when someone lost his brother,mother ,want revenge..its easy to get it..eye for an eye never helps..never..
i hope will never be next bomb,but with Gitmo open,with the troops still in Iraq i m sure will one..
2 months ago in my base (im in Greek Airforce) we have some A-8 groups from USA Navy..we have some stuff to do and i was the connection if the want anything from my team....and all,,im mean ALL the people from the Usa navy didnt like all this shit and dont like the war..the only pro was that thay had to take the job,,They say to me that if they have another job in the States they will never join the Navy..
i bhope some day all this will be history and will never repeats
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
We've thwatted at least three attacks. Our last government did us no favours in world standing.
where u sent troops??
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
"Kat wrote:The fact of the matter is that Guantanamo hurts our troops and makes America less safe. It has created enemies, some of whom surely went on to harm or kill American troops."
you think that if Gitmo disappears that terrorist will be like "wow Gitmo is closed lets stop bombing and give peace a chance"
really where are your heads at on this?
Right, that would be like the scene in Family Guy when 'democracy just kicked in' and everything was fine. Our president is going all over the world apologizing for us and 19 more troops died in that last day so I don't think that's working. What a waste of time, how about joining a coalition of musicians in support of the troops and the mission they were sent to do and coming out against them being killed by insurgents? I feel so bad for these poor terrorists. :(
This is stupid. These are low life ANIMALS and we feel BAD for them :?: I don't get the liberal agenda at all. Funny how Mr. Prez. B.O. has been promising to close the place but cannot... And how the other countries are too self righteous to take any prisoners? Thanks Guys....if it wasn't for America, many countries would be drastically different today. These guys are going to get off scott-free and get back into the world of global terror all because of circumstantial evidence. Way to go everyone....good job. Wait till we get reamed in the ass again....then we'll see how everyone's tune changes.
Do you honestly think keeping GITMO open that you won't get "reemed in the ass again"? I think the with the US still in Iraq and Afghanistan that you are going to get "reemed in the ass" repeatedly for generations to come. It's not like one place has brought ill will to your nation it's a collection of things over decades of wrong doing.
You are correct though, without America, many countries would be drastically different! Many countries wouldn't feel bullied in order to "stay the course".
I have many American friends who are ashamed of the things their country is doing and I am ashamed of my country for feeling the need to tag along.
"By in large Americans are peace loving and have little interest in getting involved in other country's internal issues. This is why the people were so shocked when 911 happened"
Please tell me you aren't really this naive? I want you to travel the world and see if the words "peace loving" and "not getting involved in other countries internal issues" even comes close to the lips of those who you visit. American backpackers in Europe often sew flags of other nations to their backpacks in order to get treated respectfully.
Adolescence in essence is all about trust.
Leaving is for the answering machine.
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
We've thwatted at least three attacks. Our last government did us no favours in world standing.
where u sent troops??
These atacks were based on Australian soil aimed at landmarks inside Australia. One case is before the court system as we speak. However, the offenders are not in a military prison, they are in super max criminal prisons and have been tried in a court of law. As they should be as these are not really acts of war - but criminal acts planned and committed by mass murderers - not soldiers figthing under a national flag.
Australia has been targets in attacks in Indonesia - two rounds of bombing in Bali - I lost friends/associates in both the Sari Club (I'd been there many times) and Jimbaran Bay (I'd been there lots too). The Australian embasy in Jakata was bombed as well as hotels in Jakata frequented by Australians. Extremists in the region have no love for us. The Australian Embassy in Singapore was also targeted but the plot foiled. Jamah Islamiyah and Abu Sayef (sp??) have been active for a long time.
Our troups are everywhere (alsmost) US troups are and even some they are not. This includes our Army, SAS, Airforce and Navy. There is a treaty called the ANZUS pact where if you attack one, you attack both and both countries support each other as a first response (which I support).
At present were have troup in or have been in:
Afghanistan
Iraq (SAS were first on the ground pre invation and air attacks, Airforce in raids and nofly zone activities, Navy in Blockade)
Bosnia
East Timor (main force there)
Solomon Islands (main force there)
and many other places as peace keeprs.
We've thwatted at least three attacks. Our last government did us no favours in world standing.
where u sent troops??
These atacks were based on Australian soil aimed at landmarks inside Australia. Oncecase is before the court system as we speak. However, the offenders are not in a military prison, they are in super max criminal prisons and have been tried in a court of law.
Australia has been targets in attacks in Indonesia - two rounds of bombing in Bali - I lost friends/associates in both the Sari CLub (I'd been there many times) and Jimbaran Bay (I'd been there lots too). The Australian embasy in Jakata was bombed as well as hotels in Jakate frequented by Australians. Extremists in the region have no love for us.
Our troups are everywhere (alsmost) US troups are and even some they are not. This includes our Army, SAS, Airforce and Navy. There is a treaty called the ANZUS pact where if you attack one, you attack both and both countries support each other as a first response (which I support).
At present were have troup in or have been in:
Afghanistan
Iraq (SAS were first on the ground pre invation and air attacks, Airforce in raids and nofly zone activities, Navy in Blockade)
Bosnia
East Timor (main force there)
Solomon Islands (main force there)
and many other places as peace keeprs.
SHIT..TOO MANY BLEEDS TO COVER..
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
I understand where making people listen to Riot Act for 24 hours would be considered torture.....
You are insane, Riot Act is a great record.
As for people against closing GITMO, you do realize that these people would go to prison if found guilty right? Just like terrorist who blew up the Oklahoma City building in 95. It's not like they are going to get to go outside and play whiffle ball all day. I know conservatives don't watch MSNBC but they have this show on called Lock up on the weekends and if I had a choice of sitting around Cuba or going to a real U.S. prison, I'll take Cuba. You go to real prison they aren't going to give a shit about letting them pray 5 days daily and they better watch their backs when it's time to go into the yard. And before people start ripping on me saying how i'm a liberal, I could care less if they torture actual terrorist to get information. These people are fucked up and have no place in society. Certain people are just not equipped to function in a normal society. People who blow up buildings because their stupid religion, and that goes for the Christian terrorist like the Olympic bomber in Atlanta and the two guys who blew up Oklahoma City building, tells them so should not be allowed to function in society. Lock them up and throw away the key. And while we are at it child molesters and rapist should be put away for life as well.
OK, I read through the whole thread, and I feel like I have to add my perspective. I have been a lawyer for 20 years. Our legal system, flawed as it may be, and our Constitution is what we have to stand between the power of the state and the individual person who is subject to that power. It defines our basic principles of who we are: our country was founded on the idea that the individual human condition includes essential freedoms and basic dignity. When we start to say, well, those principles apply most of the time, but sometimes when (someone) decides its really important, we can throw it out the window, it makes me feel really insecure, and afraid, and pissed off. Really? We're going to compromise our core values, give up the things that make us what we are, because of this attack on us? Do we really think that unless we torture people, we'll be living in the reconstituted Ottoman Empire? And that if we do torture them, we'll avoid that? This why I agree with those who have said that when we torture, when we throw out or core values, the terrorists win, because we have then lost part of who we are.
What countries try detainees in kangaroo courts, outside of public view, without a reasonable chance to answer the charges or defend yourself? Hmmm...isn't that happening in Iran? North Korea? Do we want to join that club? Have we already? Changing your mind is proof that you have one.
The other really big question is, who gets to decide when we're going to chuck our founding principles out? And what if that person, flawed as we all are and he or she is bound to be, actually has some unrelated, personal motive (money? revenge? personal gain or glory? message from God?) that is the motive for this decision? Or, I know it's hard to believe, but what about inaccurate information? (you mean, he wasn't really a terrorist? oh, well, sorry, ...you're willing to say that to his kid?) Sorry, I can't do it.
In this country that I love, we don't hold people in jail without being charged or tried. We are entitled to know the evidence against us. We have public trials with rules of evidence and a right to defend yourself. That's what we do, no matter who we're talking about or how awful their charges. That's who we are.
In this country that I love, we don't hold people in jail without being charged or tried. We are entitled to know the evidence against us. We have public trials with rules of evidence and a right to defend yourself. That's what we do, no matter who we're talking about or how awful their charges. That's who we are.
Thanks for reading my rant.
I couldn't agree more - thank you for your contribution.
People just have to get over the fact that standing up for human rights and the ethics and values we hold dear does not ean we're on the side of the terrorists (whatever that means) I means we're on the side of good and decency and the values wehold dear that keep us rocking in the free world.
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
OK, I read through the whole thread, and I feel like I have to add my perspective. I have been a lawyer for 20 years. Our legal system, flawed as it may be, and our Constitution is what we have to stand between the power of the state and the individual person who is subject to that power. It defines our basic principles of who we are: our country was founded on the idea that the individual human condition includes essential freedoms and basic dignity. When we start to say, well, those principles apply most of the time, but sometimes when (someone) decides its really important, we can throw it out the window, it makes me feel really insecure, and afraid, and pissed off. Really? We're going to compromise our core values, give up the things that make us what we are, because of this attack on us? Do we really think that unless we torture people, we'll be living in the reconstituted Ottoman Empire? And that if we do torture them, we'll avoid that? This why I agree with those who have said that when we torture, when we throw out or core values, the terrorists win, because we have then lost part of who we are.
What countries try detainees in kangaroo courts, outside of public view, without a reasonable chance to answer the charges or defend yourself? Hmmm...isn't that happening in Iran? North Korea? Do we want to join that club? Have we already? Changing your mind is proof that you have one.
The other really big question is, who gets to decide when we're going to chuck our founding principles out? And what if that person, flawed as we all are and he or she is bound to be, actually has some unrelated, personal motive (money? revenge? personal gain or glory? message from God?) that is the motive for this decision? Or, I know it's hard to believe, but what about inaccurate information? (you mean, he wasn't really a terrorist? oh, well, sorry, ...you're willing to say that to his kid?) Sorry, I can't do it.
In this country that I love, we don't hold people in jail without being charged or tried. We are entitled to know the evidence against us. We have public trials with rules of evidence and a right to defend yourself. That's what we do, no matter who we're talking about or how awful their charges. That's who we are.
Why no talk from Ed in Philly regarding the band support of closing Gitmo?
Please tell me that this wasn't just a publicity stunt and they really do want it closed. I was just disappointed that there was no mention at ALL by Eddie during the last few shows. How UNLIKE him.
Why no talk from Ed in Philly regarding the band support of closing Gitmo?
Please tell me that this wasn't just a publicity stunt and they really do want it closed. I was just disappointed that there was no mention at ALL by Eddie during the last few shows. How UNLIKE him.
that was strange really
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
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"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
Yes I am familiar with the band, I've been a fan club member for 10+ years. Yes I know Ed has always used the stage to 'vent', however I'd much prefer to listen to him vent through his music. As far as Ed having guts to speak...ummm it's not like everyone is going to walk out and he knows it (some did a few years back and who ever those people are, I always think of them with a smile). What you call guts I call arrogance, for lack of better word. I know full and well what Ed's views are, but there is such thing as overkill. I used to listen to what he said, now it's all the same hate and anger, pretty ironic or even hypocritical from a guys who just wants peace. I love PJ"s songs, and I'm a loyal fan even through all of the politics, I just wish they would save it for the songs, because all his political speeches put together will never get more than a polite eye roll from me, Ive heard it too many times. Now a song...that's another story, PJ's songs will always move me and I will always be listening.
you think that if Gitmo disappears that terrorist will be like "wow Gitmo is closed lets stop bombing and give peace a chance"
really where are your heads at on this?
Deathwishers, "kill all the terrorists!". What kind of a lame ass expression is that? Are you willing to kill all of them yourself? A person like this, should never have a handgun in their hands. I don´t own one, cuase i have a very bad temper. If someone is to honk their horn at me in traffic, for sure I would kill that person during a burst of anger. I feel bad after killing a bug! Not to mention a human being.
I have a friend that "accepted jesus". I haven´t seen him since college, about 4 years ago. Inquiring on his thoughts on passages of the bible, he once told me that people that would not accept Jesus will go to hell. So I asked him about the people in asia and arabia and whatnot. He said to me that they are in the bible, and that THEY ARE ALL DOOMED TO HELL. It´s in here, in the bible, he told me. This is a dude, that an year earlier was fucking hookers, and did not even ask what religion these chicks were. He was not a bad person, as he is probably not a bad person now. But to think this way, reminds me of all the scums around the world that only wish death where ever they see fit.
Closing the gitmo will not put an end to war. Never. But I agree with this campaign regarding the music and closing of.
ok ... that was well said, and i can respect what you're saying. but i guess my point remains the same: you're hoping that ed will suddenly reverse his position on speaking out at shows. you want him to stop doing something he's always done. and you want him to stop doing something that he clearly believes is the right thing to do. i don't think it's appropriate to ask him to do that. BUT ... i hear you. he might actually reach more people and lose fewer fans who disagree with his views if he just kept his political opinions in the songs. valid point.
sorry to drone on ... but one other thing. i don't see ed's "hate and anger" as hypocritical at all. even peaceful citizens can be expected to respond with outrage when they feel their country and their freedoms are being destroyed.
No I don't want Ed to reverse his position or stop bringing up causes he supports at shows, as you said that's what he's always done, that's who he is. In all honesty what this really comes down to is where you stand politically, so I as a conservative tend to tire of the politcal rants. When Ed does start on politics, as mentioned before, I make the best of it and take a bathroom break (I know tmi
I think the point is that we would have been better off if there never had been a Gitmo.
i support the band in wanting to close this down. it's all bad.
if someone was using your art as weapon i really doubt you would just blow it off
it's the american way right :roll:
Sammi: Wanna just break up?
this is not the way to go with humans..shit i cant even think they way those people feel....
but im fuckin sure that some of them that wasnt "terrorist" if they ever go back home they will want revenge...
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
I bet Americans treats there prisoners of war better than any other country in this world...
No offence intended Aerial, to you or to Americans in general (who i admire and respect - except Glen Beck and Sean Hanity- they're douche bags), but I'd like to take you up on that bet.
You probably need to qualify your remarks with "Before Bush, Rumsfeld and Cheney" Americans treat"ed" their prisoners of war better than any other country in this world...
Unfortunaley this War On Terror has seen us (Americans are not soley responsible for GITMO - all the allied Governments have agreed to it) lose a bit of what we hold dear in the name of 'freedom'.
There is a better way and we need to show the world that we are the best, most humane and also that we don't take shit.
the only way to end this is peace...blood bring blood,pain -pain..i really dont get how u dont understand this
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
I don't think you've put this too well and I'd not be surprised if you cop a fair bit of flack.
Let's all hope there is no next bomb attack - anywhere. A couple of hundred innocent civilians just lost their lives in Iraq thanks to murderers with bombs. I think those who would do such acts are hardly influenced by photos such as this - they've already got their mission in life. it takes more than a photo to influence these people.
America was complacent before 911 and the people in charge (CIA, FBI, admin) were obviously asleep at the wheel, as someone who has just travelled in and out of the USA (and has since the late 80s), that is no longer the case, security is taken very seriously. I think Pearl Harbour had a similar effect in waking up a sleeping tiger. By in large Americans are peace loving and have little interest in getting involved in other country's internal issues. This is why the people were so shocked when 911 happened.
But what I hope you are trying to say is hate breeds hate, violence breeds violence and somewhere we need to break this circle of violence.
let me put it this way..how many times your country been attack by bombs in the center of syndey?or my country too..or Austria ,Argentina,Japan...from middle east countries..from "terrorist."from Muslims..zero....u can understand why i guess..there are to close to my country,but never attack us..its easy to get..
when someone lost his brother,mother ,want revenge..its easy to get it..eye for an eye never helps..never..
i hope will never be next bomb,but with Gitmo open,with the troops still in Iraq i m sure will one..
2 months ago in my base (im in Greek Airforce) we have some A-8 groups from USA Navy..we have some stuff to do and i was the connection if the want anything from my team....and all,,im mean ALL the people from the Usa navy didnt like all this shit and dont like the war..the only pro was that thay had to take the job,,They say to me that if they have another job in the States they will never join the Navy..
i bhope some day all this will be history and will never repeats
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
Right, that would be like the scene in Family Guy when 'democracy just kicked in' and everything was fine. Our president is going all over the world apologizing for us and 19 more troops died in that last day so I don't think that's working. What a waste of time, how about joining a coalition of musicians in support of the troops and the mission they were sent to do and coming out against them being killed by insurgents? I feel so bad for these poor terrorists. :(
Do you honestly think keeping GITMO open that you won't get "reemed in the ass again"? I think the with the US still in Iraq and Afghanistan that you are going to get "reemed in the ass" repeatedly for generations to come. It's not like one place has brought ill will to your nation it's a collection of things over decades of wrong doing.
You are correct though, without America, many countries would be drastically different! Many countries wouldn't feel bullied in order to "stay the course".
I have many American friends who are ashamed of the things their country is doing and I am ashamed of my country for feeling the need to tag along.
"By in large Americans are peace loving and have little interest in getting involved in other country's internal issues. This is why the people were so shocked when 911 happened"
Please tell me you aren't really this naive? I want you to travel the world and see if the words "peace loving" and "not getting involved in other countries internal issues" even comes close to the lips of those who you visit. American backpackers in Europe often sew flags of other nations to their backpacks in order to get treated respectfully.
Leaving is for the answering machine.
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
These atacks were based on Australian soil aimed at landmarks inside Australia. One case is before the court system as we speak. However, the offenders are not in a military prison, they are in super max criminal prisons and have been tried in a court of law. As they should be as these are not really acts of war - but criminal acts planned and committed by mass murderers - not soldiers figthing under a national flag.
Australia has been targets in attacks in Indonesia - two rounds of bombing in Bali - I lost friends/associates in both the Sari Club (I'd been there many times) and Jimbaran Bay (I'd been there lots too). The Australian embasy in Jakata was bombed as well as hotels in Jakata frequented by Australians. Extremists in the region have no love for us. The Australian Embassy in Singapore was also targeted but the plot foiled. Jamah Islamiyah and Abu Sayef (sp??) have been active for a long time.
Our troups are everywhere (alsmost) US troups are and even some they are not. This includes our Army, SAS, Airforce and Navy. There is a treaty called the ANZUS pact where if you attack one, you attack both and both countries support each other as a first response (which I support).
At present were have troup in or have been in:
Afghanistan
Iraq (SAS were first on the ground pre invation and air attacks, Airforce in raids and nofly zone activities, Navy in Blockade)
Bosnia
East Timor (main force there)
Solomon Islands (main force there)
and many other places as peace keeprs.
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
You are insane, Riot Act is a great record.
As for people against closing GITMO, you do realize that these people would go to prison if found guilty right? Just like terrorist who blew up the Oklahoma City building in 95. It's not like they are going to get to go outside and play whiffle ball all day. I know conservatives don't watch MSNBC but they have this show on called Lock up on the weekends and if I had a choice of sitting around Cuba or going to a real U.S. prison, I'll take Cuba. You go to real prison they aren't going to give a shit about letting them pray 5 days daily and they better watch their backs when it's time to go into the yard. And before people start ripping on me saying how i'm a liberal, I could care less if they torture actual terrorist to get information. These people are fucked up and have no place in society. Certain people are just not equipped to function in a normal society. People who blow up buildings because their stupid religion, and that goes for the Christian terrorist like the Olympic bomber in Atlanta and the two guys who blew up Oklahoma City building, tells them so should not be allowed to function in society. Lock them up and throw away the key. And while we are at it child molesters and rapist should be put away for life as well.
What countries try detainees in kangaroo courts, outside of public view, without a reasonable chance to answer the charges or defend yourself? Hmmm...isn't that happening in Iran? North Korea? Do we want to join that club? Have we already? Changing your mind is proof that you have one.
The other really big question is, who gets to decide when we're going to chuck our founding principles out? And what if that person, flawed as we all are and he or she is bound to be, actually has some unrelated, personal motive (money? revenge? personal gain or glory? message from God?) that is the motive for this decision? Or, I know it's hard to believe, but what about inaccurate information? (you mean, he wasn't really a terrorist? oh, well, sorry, ...you're willing to say that to his kid?) Sorry, I can't do it.
In this country that I love, we don't hold people in jail without being charged or tried. We are entitled to know the evidence against us. We have public trials with rules of evidence and a right to defend yourself. That's what we do, no matter who we're talking about or how awful their charges. That's who we are.
Thanks for reading my rant.
I couldn't agree more - thank you for your contribution.
People just have to get over the fact that standing up for human rights and the ethics and values we hold dear does not ean we're on the side of the terrorists (whatever that means) I means we're on the side of good and decency and the values wehold dear that keep us rocking in the free world.
Peace.
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"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
Please tell me that this wasn't just a publicity stunt and they really do want it closed. I was just disappointed that there was no mention at ALL by Eddie during the last few shows. How UNLIKE him.
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”