PJ Joins Campaign to close Gitmo

Smellyman

elle74 wrote:

This is stupid. These are low life ANIMALS and we feel BAD for them :?: I don't get the liberal agenda at all. Funny how Mr. Prez. B.O. has been promising to close the place but cannot... And how the other countries are too self righteous to take any prisoners? Thanks Guys....if it wasn't for America, many countries would be drastically different today. These guys are going to get off scott-free and get back into the world of global terror all because of circumstantial evidence. Way to go everyone....good job. Wait till we get reamed in the ass again....then we'll see how everyone's tune changes.

Who are all these animals?

JR8805

LloydChristmas wrote:

Lets close it down. We mistreated those prisoners. Its not like they decapitate our soldiers or anything.

We should close it down, and we have mistreated those prisoners. The guilty and the just unlucky to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. I am really against bad treatment of others because it is beyond stupid. If we are seen as torturers, nothing in the world is going to protect us when we get caught ourselves. Just as it's stupid for the school bully to hit little Johnny and take his money, it's really, really stupid of little Johnny to get a desk and bash the bully's head in against a wall in order to teach the bully to stop his bullying. The bully gets martyred and little Johnny ends up getting three consecutive life sentences. And the bully's friends hate all of little Johnny's friends and want to make them pay for what little Johnny did. And they could spend the rest of their lives doing it...and what you have is a gang war writ large. When it comes to violence, people are stupid. The brain goes off and the knee jerks. There's gotta be a high road and someone who takes it. People on the moral high road always hold respect, and respect gets you power. Being equal to a terrorist gets you derision, not sympathy. I truly don't understand the debasement of self and of nation to get a moment's satisfaction that you're "doing something," except that it all came from the Bush II administration, an administration headed by the biggest baby ever to "serve" in the office of the presidency.

I'm not religious, but I can't help but note that the Bible's Jesus is no idiot. Jesus countered the Old Testament's eye for an eye policy because it was stupid. Turn the other cheek doesn't necessarily mean pacifism--it means you've bothered to think things through.

curmudgeoness

It's not about being "nice" to criminals. It's about respecting international laws as well as the values and ideas on which this country was founded.

A fundamental concept in the American legal system is that a person is considered innocent until proven guilty. I do not think any of us is able to offer proof to support the guilt (or innocence) of any person currently being held in Guantanamo.

I support our government's efforts to track down terrorists and to prevent terrorist attacks -- although our laws and rights must be respected in the process. I do not support rounding up people who may or may not be guilty, torturing them, and then throwing them in a hole and forgetting about them for years. That is unjustifiable behavior, and it is contrary to everything for which this country does -- or should -- stand.

Close Guantanamo, move the prisoners to maximum security prisons on domestic soil, give them fair and "speedy" (silly word at this point) trials, throw the book at the individuals found guilty, and free the innocent. How can we justify any other course of action??

Yes, I signed the petition.

supersonicyears

Where are they going to be moving the prisoners? I feel really bad for the families of the people who have been killed by terrorists. It's like the terrorists are getting a small victory.

Veddernarian

"You can't handle the truth! Son, we live in a world that has walls. And those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago and you curse the Marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives...You don't want the truth. Because deep down, in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall. You need me on that wall.We use words like honor, code, loyalty...we use these words as the backbone to a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide, then questions the manner in which I provide it! I'd rather you just said thank you and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand to post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to!"

Colonel Nathan Jessup in "A Few Good Men"

Paul Andrews

Congratulations to these bands for standing up. I fully support you - and I lost friends in the Bali bombings (both of them). If places like GITMO are allowed - the terrorists have won. We should not stoop to conquer.

pickupyourwill

bosshogg18 wrote:

boooooooooooo. If people want Gitmo closed then that is their opinion and the bands opinion. I for one don't see anything wrong with the way "terrorists" are treated. How do these "terrorists" treat people? Bomb and kill thousands of innocent people. Sounds like we should give them a tempra-pedic bed and a plasma screen in their cells so they are comfortable.

you obviously never saw that movie with Jake Gyllenhal and Reese Witherspoon, based on a true story, where an innocent Arab-American man was wrongfully tortured because of wrong information. If its happened once, it can happen again, and probably has many times in the past there. damn I wish I could remember the name. will post it later.

got the cause posted on my facebook.

pickupyourwill

Veddernarian wrote:

"You can't handle the truth! Son, we live in a world that has walls. And those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago and you curse the Marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives...You don't want the truth. Because deep down, in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall. You need me on that wall.We use words like honor, code, loyalty...we use these words as the backbone to a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide, then questions the manner in which I provide it! I'd rather you just said thank you and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand to post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to!"

Colonel Nathan Jessup in "A Few Good Men"

great movie. great example.

The Juggler

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :arrow: :roll:

JV130312

The only thing wrong with torturing terrorists is that it doesn't kill them. F' them... :twisted:

Paul Andrews

JV130312 wrote:

The only thing wrong with torturing terrorists is that it doesn't kill them. F' them... :twisted:

The problem is, the majority of people who have been through that hell hole were not terrorists. Fighting for the Taliban (or whatever regional army they were with) against and invading army (no matter what the rights or wrongs are of that invasion) does not make you a terrorist. Most of these guys were defending their country, the same as I would do if a hostile force invaded Australia.

pickupyourwill

JV130312 wrote:

The only thing wrong with torturing terrorists is that it doesn't kill them. F' them... :twisted:

watch the movie Rendition.

Paul Andrews

pickupyourwill wrote:

bosshogg18 wrote:

boooooooooooo. If people want Gitmo closed then that is their opinion and the bands opinion. I for one don't see anything wrong with the way "terrorists" are treated. How do these "terrorists" treat people? Bomb and kill thousands of innocent people. Sounds like we should give them a tempra-pedic bed and a plasma screen in their cells so they are comfortable.

you obviously never saw that movie with Jake Gyllenhal and Reese Witherspoon, based on a true story, where an innocent Arab-American man was wrongfully tortured because of wrong information. If its happened once, it can happen again, and probably has many times in the past there. damn I wish I could remember the name. will post it later.

got the cause posted on my facebook.

Add to this those who were killed in secret prisons elsewhere. How many were unjustly detained because people were paid to turn over terrorists and then turned over their enemies, rivals or randoms for the money.

Pol Pot said he'd happily see ten innocent men executed than let one guilty man go free. I would have thought we were better than this. If you embrace freedom and justice, you must also embrace it for your enemies. I have no issue with locking away for life a terrorist and in no way support their actions, but to lower ourselves to their level makes us little better than them. Only through justice and compassion for all - even those who would wish evil on us, do we rise to a higher plane. I am no Christian, but I believe Christian teachings embrace such ethics.

cincybearcat

Well hell, why didn't the rock stars say something sooner...I'm sure it'll happen tomorrow now as everyone was just waiting to see where they stood.
:twisted:

joe2468

i hate shit like this....HEY ED DONT RUIN next weeks shows with this banter bullshit.....

KILL EM ALL...rip there toes off and feed them to sharks.........

lost 5 friends to 911
lost 7 friends in the war.....

Paul Andrews

joe2468 wrote:

i hate shit like this....HEY ED DONT RUIN next weeks shows with this banter bullshit.....

KILL EM ALL...rip there toes off and feed them to sharks.........

lost 5 friends to 911
lost 7 friends in the war.....

So this excuses locking up and torturing a large number of innocent people in GITMO does it?

I lost two friends to Bali bombing #1
I lost one student i was teaching in Bali Boming #2

What about the thousands of innocents includiong women and children killed in IRAQ and Afghanistan - do they count in your eyes? What about the children in Israel or Palestine or Dafour or any other war torn land.

Torture is NEVER acceptable, neither is locking up of innocent people or the death penalty for that matter. There are better ways yet the Bush (and dickwit Howard in Australia) administrations were too fucking stupid and bloodyminded to see it and have helped spawn a new generation of terrorists who want to get us. They played the politics of fear and bigotry and you have signed up to their cause. I bet you believe everything on Fox News too. You probably booed Pearl Jam after Bu$hleaguer

Flying planes into buildings, bombing subway trains, blowing up restaurants and nightclubs, firing rockets into civilian areas, kidnapping, beheading and other atrocities are not acceptable either and cannot be excused. I am in no way supporting these actions nor making excuses for them - this is humanity at its fucking worst - bit so is GITMO. But you can only hold the high moral ground if you hold onto your morals. When we give away the freedoms and compassion we believe in in the name of revenge - are we then no better than those we deem evil???

At the end of the day it is the innocent that suffer so those with hate and greed can have their way all over the world. Maybe it is time we all saw this and stood up to the real evil doers rather than allow cultures and people to be scapegoated.

Maybe if we the people began asking the qurestion of WHY these things happened and looked at the world with eyes other than those our greedy leaders and corporate masters wanted, we'd have greater understanding and compassion.

Smellyman

joe2468 wrote:

i hate shit like this....HEY ED DONT RUIN next weeks shows with this banter bullshit.....

KILL EM ALL...rip there toes off and feed them to sharks.........

lost 5 friends to 911
lost 7 friends in the war.....

YEEEEEHHHHAAAAAAWWWWWW...

lets go kill us some turrorists....

joe2468

Paul Andrews wrote:

joe2468 wrote:

i hate shit like this....HEY ED DONT RUIN next weeks shows with this banter bullshit.....

KILL EM ALL...rip there toes off and feed them to sharks.........

lost 5 friends to 911
lost 7 friends in the war.....

So this excuses locking up and torturing a large number of innocent people in GITMO does it?

I lost two friends to Bali bombing #1
I lost one student i was teaching in Bali Boming #2

What about the thousands of innocents includiong women and children killed in IRAQ and Afghanistan - do they count in your eyes? What about the children in Israel or Palestine or Dafour or any other war torn land.

Torture is NEVER acceptable, neither is locking up of innocent people or the death penalty for that matter. There are better ways yet the Bush (and dickwit Howard in Australia) administrations were too fucking stupid and bloodyminded to see it and have helped spawn a new generation of terrorists who want to get us. They played the politics of fear and bigotry and you have signed up to their cause. I bet you believe everything on Fox News too. You probably booed Pearl Jam after Bu$hleaguer

At the end of the day it is the innocent that suffer so those with hate and greed can have their way all over the world. Maybe it is time we all saw this and stood up to the real evil doers rather than allow cultures and people to be scapegoated.

Maybe if we the people began asking the qurestion of WHY these things happened and looked at the world with eyes other than those our greedy leaders and corporate masters wanted, we'd have greater understanding and compassion.

listen im not going to argue with you.. i dont disagree with anything your saying either..... and for the record i was one of the people in a post about the NASSAU long island show thread ...that I THOUGHT ED GOT THE WRONG IDEA....i booed cause i hate bush... i booed cause i never liked bush since day one NOT CAUSE ED HATES HIM... i speak for myself...

and yes i might have come down a little harsh on what i said... but at the same time ... ITS A "WAR" kill or be killed.... there shouldnt be ANY RULES IN WAR... PRISONERS should have no writes....... just like our justice system .... its a joke a man can kill someone in cold blood...sit in jail for a few years and walk out....REALLY.... EYE FOR AN EYE

force-10

Hey Sea! You should have started this thread in ALL ENCOMPASSING TRIP. What the fuck were you thinking :?: :!:

People pay for their mistakes here in this world. If not them, their family for generations and generations to come. The "terrorists", USA, the World, the fuck who came up with barney.... everybody´s ass is up for whoever wants to throw a fucking rock in the air.

Paul Andrews

joe2468 wrote:

Paul Andrews wrote:

joe2468 wrote:

i hate shit like this....HEY ED DONT RUIN next weeks shows with this banter bullshit.....

KILL EM ALL...rip there toes off and feed them to sharks.........

lost 5 friends to 911
lost 7 friends in the war.....

So this excuses locking up and torturing a large number of innocent people in GITMO does it?

I lost two friends to Bali bombing #1
I lost one student i was teaching in Bali Boming #2

What about the thousands of innocents includiong women and children killed in IRAQ and Afghanistan - do they count in your eyes? What about the children in Israel or Palestine or Dafour or any other war torn land.

Torture is NEVER acceptable, neither is locking up of innocent people or the death penalty for that matter. There are better ways yet the Bush (and dickwit Howard in Australia) administrations were too fucking stupid and bloodyminded to see it and have helped spawn a new generation of terrorists who want to get us. They played the politics of fear and bigotry and you have signed up to their cause. I bet you believe everything on Fox News too. You probably booed Pearl Jam after Bu$hleaguer

At the end of the day it is the innocent that suffer so those with hate and greed can have their way all over the world. Maybe it is time we all saw this and stood up to the real evil doers rather than allow cultures and people to be scapegoated.

Maybe if we the people began asking the qurestion of WHY these things happened and looked at the world with eyes other than those our greedy leaders and corporate masters wanted, we'd have greater understanding and compassion.

listen im not going to argue with you.. i dont disagree with anything your saying either..... and for the record i was one of the people in a post about the NASSAU long island show thread ...that I THOUGHT ED GOT THE WRONG IDEA....i booed cause i hate bush... i booed cause i never liked bush since day one NOT CAUSE ED HATES HIM... i speak for myself...

and yes i might have come down a little harsh on what i said... but at the same time ... ITS A "WAR" kill or be killed.... there shouldnt be ANY RULES IN WAR... PRISONERS should have no writes....... just like our justice system .... its a joke a man can kill someone in cold blood...sit in jail for a few years and walk out....REALLY.... EYE FOR AN EYE

Thanks Joe, sorry to go so hard.

I agree - you kill someone in cold blood you should never be released, no problem with that, but most wars are fought for greed which the chicken hawks who design and run them sit safe in their towers, immune from the pain and suffering the ordinary people experience. IRAQ is a war crime. I have no malice for the soldiers - they serve with bravery and make the ultimate sacrafice. I do not mean to demean or discredit them at all. BUt those who profit and gain from wars, those who unjustly send our sons and daughters into harms way need to be brought to justice - on both sides.

But prisoners have rights. I am digusted at what happened to Danny Pearl and the other capitves at the hands of al qaeda and the other terrorists - their rights were ignored, but by that same standard, I must be disgusted at what goes on in GITMO, the Iraq prisons and those we've never heard of in Afghanistan, Egypt and other places. Some of the documentaries and youtube footage I have seen saddens me beyond belief. To hear stories of innocent people bashed to death, people whos legs are broken so many times they are just jelly, people whose rib cages are completely shattered, people tortured for no gain - we're better than that don't you think.

As a parent, to see an Iraqi man, tears streaming from his eyes as he carries the bloody remains of his child through the streets of Bahgdad distresses me more than you can ever imagine. To see bodies of children blown apart by either US or THEM is terrible. But there is no us or them, we are but one race - the human race - we all want the same out of life - peace, security and to live out lives in happiness. Jew Muslim, Christian, Hindu, Athiest (me), and every other denomination need to learn how to live together for the benefit of us all.

In the 2000s we need to find a way to settle differences that does not include blowing each other appart. The term collateral Damage needs to be removed from the dictionary - let's call it what it is - the indescriiminate killing of the innocent - and there are lots of them. The majority of people responsible for these wars (including Bin Ladin, Omar, Bush, Cheney, et al) are all still sleeping happily in their beds. How many US servicemen and women are dead, maimed and psychologically scarred thanks to these wars? How many innocents are dead? How many more must die? I

If we put the resources currently allocated to the war industries into solving poverty, into providing clean water for all, into education, into humanitarian projects, why would be need wars? When we examine who benefits from war, it is frightening - it is an industry - those who control that industry get very wealthy form the blood spilt on both sides.

To use the old quote.. It would be a really nice day when the local school got all the funds it needed and the airforce had to hold a cake stall to purchase a new bomber.