Ten club pairs at the shows- observation

Lauri

mrpink90 wrote:

Songburst wrote:

Lauri wrote:

This begs the question then, why are the guys going through all this to bring this girl to a show? Why don't they bring a friend who at least values a good rock show, or sell the ticket to another fan? Why are the guys so needy that they feel they have to bring their girlfriend along with them to everything and will go to lengths of bribery to do so? What is the benefit of that? Hell, going to a PJ show is expensive enough, I'd never buy a $500 piece of crap on top of it. Can some guy explain this to me? If your girlfriend is the type of person that demands a coach purse as retribution for getting to go to an awesome show, you know you're never going to "convert" her, so what is the point? I really want to understand this, because these mopey girls really bring down the vibe.

I have a female friend who has claimed in the past to "love" certain musicians or bands, but then will say, "I wish I could see them live." My response is, "so...buy a ticket next time they come to town?" And that's just beyond her comprehension. This girl has a lot of money, travels all the time, and lives in a big city. She has no problem spending money on anything else really, but for some reason she doesn't seem to realize that you can just buy a ticket and go to a show. I don't know, it's extremely weird.

Because we are inherently stupid and easy to manipulate and we end up giving in to a woman's demands (no matter how petty it ends up being).

And we wanna get laid after the show.


the chicks ive dated have always enjoyed going to shows, whether they were pearl jam fans or not. I seriously doubt women say "ill go if you buy me this" or whatever, but who knows. Id never bring my gf to a show if she had absolutely zero interest in going. I think it just comes down to most couples do things together, whether its going out to eat or the movies or a concert.

I don't see how dragging a girl to something she doesn't want to go to increases your chances of that...(unless you're traveling to the show, and then why doesn't she just go do something on her own while you're at the show?)

Never been into that "couples do stuff together" thing. Sure, I've gone to stuff that my boyfriend wanted to do and I really had no opinion either way on and vice versa, but I've never relied on a boyfriend to be a default companion for stuff...once when I had a boyfriend I bought a single ticket to something and the day of the show I was like "hey I'm going to this show tonight" and he was like, "who are you going with?" and I was like, "myself" and he was like, "I would have gone to that! I like that band!" Didn't even cross my mind. Guess I'm just used to independence!

Minou

mrpink90 wrote:

and most women are crazy, they'd rather go to the show and be miserable then let the guy go with his friend and have a blast, its got nothing to do with the guy dragging the girl! shes dragging herself! and drags him and her and the entire vibe of the concert down!!!



ohhhh this should be good

I see that kind of thing all the time. It's just a form of manipulation and "hi, notice me being miserable" blah blah blah. It's obviously the wrong relationship when that's going on. So boring! Why not choose to have fun instead of always making yourself the center of attention?

Songburst

Lauri wrote:

Songburst wrote:

Lauri wrote:

but the woman/girl isn't "demanding" to go to the show, she doesn't want to! So what I'm saying is, why is it so important to the guys to have her there that they'll drag her against her will or bribe her with presents?

Ah -- but it's quite the trip to drive to Chicago from here (11 hours or so) and to get permission from her to go to Chicago for the show, he had to take her to Chicago and buy her a $500 plastic bag -- otherwise no PJ show for him.

Ok, I just don't buy this story anymore, it's gone over the top .

Sad, but true.

Songburst

Evergreen85024 wrote:

Minou wrote:

Getting "permission" from a partner-- hugely annoying structure in a relationship. 'Tried that and don't recommend it. I mean, think about how ridiculous it is to have to justify, explain and ask for permission to do things? It's like being 6 years old again.

That is sooooo fucking true. You should NEVER have to ask permission. If you do, you're not with your soulmate. Gotta respect each other and your partner's passions and interests and then make sure you help them keep those passions and intersts. Remeber who you fell in love with in the first place, you know. You have the key to keep that fire burning within their soul.

To a point. Since we got married, I always ask my wife if I can go to see hockey games / concerts / whatever with the guys (she's gone to Audioslave/PJ with my friends on her own as well -- lol). It's a courtesy (since those events are always out of town). Throw 2 small kids (now yrs old) in the mix now and you are asking for permission to do anything. It's BS with the boyfriend/girlfriend thing but married with small kids = permission needed to galavant.

decides2dream

Songburst wrote:

Evergreen85024 wrote:

Minou wrote:

Getting "permission" from a partner-- hugely annoying structure in a relationship. 'Tried that and don't recommend it. I mean, think about how ridiculous it is to have to justify, explain and ask for permission to do things? It's like being 6 years old again.

That is sooooo fucking true. You should NEVER have to ask permission. If you do, you're not with your soulmate. Gotta respect each other and your partner's passions and interests and then make sure you help them keep those passions and intersts. Remeber who you fell in love with in the first place, you know. You have the key to keep that fire burning within their soul.

To a point. Since we got married, I always ask my wife if I can go to see hockey games / concerts / whatever with the guys (she's gone to Audioslave/PJ with my friends on her own as well -- lol). It's a courtesy (since those events are always out of town). Throw 2 small kids (now yrs old) in the mix now and you are asking for permission to do anything. It's BS with the boyfriend/girlfriend thing but married with small kids = permission needed to galavant.

exactly.
it is not 'permission'...it is courtesy, and it is also is simply smart to do....especilly if you utilize joint funds for seperate excursions. my husband and i do a lot together, and a lot seperately.....whatever we enjoy. to me, it's a no brainer that of course i ask my husband if he minds if i go off for a concert, on a trip, buy whatever, etc....and vice versa. you're a couple! it's simply joint decision making about finances and time. and my husband is always free to go off with his friends to do things on his own, i am granted the same....and then we share the things we enjoy together. it really is quite simple.

norm

very enjoyable thread peeps!!

i love strong, independent women!!

Backspacer_Backer

yep, same here. i didn't really have to ask "permission" until the 2 kids arrived on the scene. it's not just me asking - she has to as well - and it's not permission really, it's that you have the responsibility of carrying your weight in the marriage - and just taking off to concerts on a whim without clearing it first is a nice freedom of youth, but it's not good for a healthy marriage, especially with kids involved.

Evergreen

Songburst wrote:

Evergreen85024 wrote:

Minou wrote:

Getting "permission" from a partner-- hugely annoying structure in a relationship. 'Tried that and don't recommend it. I mean, think about how ridiculous it is to have to justify, explain and ask for permission to do things? It's like being 6 years old again.

That is sooooo fucking true. You should NEVER have to ask permission. If you do, you're not with your soulmate. Gotta respect each other and your partner's passions and interests and then make sure you help them keep those passions and intersts. Remeber who you fell in love with in the first place, you know. You have the key to keep that fire burning within their soul.

To a point. Since we got married, I always ask my wife if I can go to see hockey games / concerts / whatever with the guys (she's gone to Audioslave/PJ with my friends on her own as well -- lol). It's a courtesy (since those events are always out of town). Throw 2 small kids (now yrs old) in the mix now and you are asking for permission to do anything. It's BS with the boyfriend/girlfriend thing but married with small kids = permission needed to galavant.

Ok...I am going to piss you off...

I have been married FOREVER and have a kid and am still married. I would NEVER expect my husband to ask out of courtesy. Yes, TELL me to make sure I am going to be home to take care of the dog, and if not, we need to draw straws on who gets to go, but if he "asked", I'd probably tell him to grow some balls. *hides*

He does what he wants, I do what I want, he buys what he wants, and so do I. We are still happy and have fun together after 20 years. It has worked fantastically for years. We don't own or control each other.

There is just a big difference in ASKING permission and saying "Hey babe, I am going to the hockey game tonight".

I damn sure don't want an asker...nor do I want to be expected to do the same.

Not For You

hinx wrote:

I noticed this in Toronto too. I had never really considered it before because I usually go with my friend (male) who has a super low number. But this time I took a friend of mine and I think I saw maybe one other pair of women at the show.

It really is a sausage party at these things, haha.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Wl_uQOABxg

Backspacer_Backer

Ok...I am going to piss you off...

I have been married FOREVER and have a kid and am still married. I would NEVER expect my husband to ask out of courtesy. Yes, TELL me to make sure I am going to be home to take care of the dog, and if not, we need to draw straws on who gets to go, but if he "asked", I'd probably tell him to grow some balls. *hides*

He does what he wants, I do what I want, he buys what he wants, and so do I. We are still happy and have fun together after 20 years. It has worked fantastically for years. We don't own or control each other.

There is just a big difference in ASKING permission and saying "Hey babe, I am going to the hockey game tonight".

I damn sure don't want an asker...nor do I want to be expected to do the same.

so you have an actual human child or just a dog? tell me you're not one of those people who thinks it's the same. also, do you both work full time jobs? it's nice to have an arrangement like that, but if it starts to be too one sided (ie, one person is always going out and having fun while the other is stuck home babysitting), it can be a problem. i see no problem with saying "since we don't have anything going on next Tuesday, I'm going to happy hour with work people - does that work for you?" 99% if the time, it's fine - but it's more respectful and courteous than just assuming that it's not burdening or inconveniencing the other person.

Evergreen

csickels wrote:

Ok...I am going to piss you off...

I have been married FOREVER and have a kid and am still married. I would NEVER expect my husband to ask out of courtesy. Yes, TELL me to make sure I am going to be home to take care of the dog, and if not, we need to draw straws on who gets to go, but if he "asked", I'd probably tell him to grow some balls. *hides*

He does what he wants, I do what I want, he buys what he wants, and so do I. We are still happy and have fun together after 20 years. It has worked fantastically for years. We don't own or control each other.

There is just a big difference in ASKING permission and saying "Hey babe, I am going to the hockey game tonight".

I damn sure don't want an asker...nor do I want to be expected to do the same.

so you have an actual human child or just a dog? tell me you're not one of those people who thinks it's the same. also, do you both work full time jobs? it's nice to have an arrangement like that, but if it starts to be too one sided (ie, one person is always going out and having fun while the other is stuck home babysitting), it can be a problem. i see no problem with saying "since we don't have anything going on next Tuesday, I'm going to happy hour with work people - does that work for you?" 99% if the time, it's fine - but it's more respectful and courteous than just assuming that it's not burdening or inconveniencing the other person.

Yep, human child is 20 and lives in either Vail or New Zealand.
We both work full time, always have, and have never had a problem with the "balance" at all. That is a respect issue. Over the years, you kinda know what the other is gonna do, like when PJ releases tour dates, he knows I will be gone, as I know with him and hockey games and if they manage to make the playoffs. He knows I take a week off with my girlfriends every year also. That many years, you just know each other to know what to expect.

Lauri

csickels wrote:

yep, same here. i didn't really have to ask "permission" until the 2 kids arrived on the scene. it's not just me asking - she has to as well - and it's not permission really, it's that you have the responsibility of carrying your weight in the marriage - and just taking off to concerts on a whim without clearing it first is a nice freedom of youth, but it's not good for a healthy marriage, especially with kids involved.

What is "permission" though? Why would your wife OR husband care if you did something like go to a Pearl Jam show? I get the courtesy thing, but I wouldn't call that obtaining "permission." Mutually clearing schedules is one thing (like you'd have to make sure she's not counting on you to watch the kids that night because there's something she has planned), but otherwise...I wouldn't be with someone who withheld me from doing things I love to do just to spite me. In the case of what we are discussing (back on topic) someone said a reason that guys drag girlfriends/wives to shows is because the women won't let them go otherwise. How much water does this reason hold? Does it happen to a lot of people? Does it happen to women- anyone here have a boyfriend or husband who doesn't let them take off for a show (or only with conditions)?

But here's my question on clearing schedules- what if you get the email from the ten club that the ticket presale is NOW and you have no time to get in touch to check if it's ok. Do you go ahead and order them any way?

I think has really diverged from the original question of the lack of women who are at shows because they want to be there, but it's gotten at some interesting things. Maybe the women who do go alone or bring friends to the show aren't just a minority of rock fans, or unusually independent, but they have unusually open relationships as well...

decides2dream

Lauri wrote:

csickels wrote:

yep, same here. i didn't really have to ask "permission" until the 2 kids arrived on the scene. it's not just me asking - she has to as well - and it's not permission really, it's that you have the responsibility of carrying your weight in the marriage - and just taking off to concerts on a whim without clearing it first is a nice freedom of youth, but it's not good for a healthy marriage, especially with kids involved.

What is "permission" though? Why would your wife OR husband care if you did something like go to a Pearl Jam show? I get the courtesy thing, but I wouldn't call that obtaining "permission." Mutually clearing schedules is one thing (like you'd have to make sure she's not counting on you to watch the kids that night because there's something she has planned), but otherwise...I wouldn't be with someone who withheld me from doing things I love to do just to spite me. In the case of what we are discussing (back on topic) someone said a reason that guys drag girlfriends/wives to shows is because the women won't let them go otherwise. How much water does this reason hold? Does it happen to a lot of people? Does it happen to women- anyone here have a boyfriend or husband who doesn't let them take off for a show (or only with conditions)?

But here's my question on clearing schedules- what if you get the email from the ten club that the ticket presale is NOW and you have no time to get in touch to check if it's ok. Do you go ahead and order them any way?
I think has really diverged from the original question of the lack of women who are at shows because they want to be there, but it's gotten at some interesting things. Maybe the women who do go alone or bring friends to the show aren't just a minority of rock fans, or unusually independent, but they have unusually open relationships as well...

you betcha - order!
b/c sure, amongst the 'courtesy' is also knowing/understanding your partner. my husband knows me, my interests, what i like to do, etc....and vice versa. now, would i go and order tix to the oz shows on a whim? no. b/c that involves a LOT more than just a weekend away, and also a big drain on the finances. i did ask my husband if he minded if i went to oz for the sydney show on my bday....and he, w/o hesitation, was a-ok with it. in the end, *I* chose not to go for a myriad of reasons, but mostly b/c i felt in the end it was too selfish of me to visit oz on my own, be away from my bday and thanksgiving, and to utlize so much of our funds all on myself. hoping the hawaii dates will work with our planned december vacation and we BOTH will go, problem solved.


and certainly, not 'pissed off' with how someone else chooses to live their life, have their marriage, etc. it's all so individual. what works for one couple doesn't for another. the trick is finding what works for you both and makes you both happy. imo, it's all 'semantics to a certaibn extent. there may well be some couple who truly must ask permission....for most i assume it's simply scheduling/courtesy...and for others it's just pure understanding of each other and thus, no need.


as to your last statement...i honestly never thought i had some odd relationship, but the longer i am married, and how we choose to live our lives, i DO realize we do have a very open relationship, and a lot of freedom...and sure, i wouldn't have it any other way. i lived/studied abroad for 6 weeks a few years ago, have traveled all over, etc.....all on my own. my husband has myriad outside interests as well. we also LOVe being together. it works for us and we are ahppy, what more is there?

Evergreen

I have total free rein when it comes to PJ and that has been the understanding since we saw them in 91 together and he did not get it like I did.

He just knows. If I get an email, I buy and figure it all out later. End of story.

Oh, and he knows EV is officially on "the list" too, and it's ok.

Songburst

I think that you guys may have misinterpreted my "permission" post. Any major events for us are a 6-hour drive (or a plane ride) and usually a 2 day commitment at a minimum. Anything in town is fair game pretty much with no notice, no questions asked for either of us. If I want to go to see an NHL game in Minny or Chicago or Ottawa, I am required to ask. If my wife wants to go see Chris Cornell with her buddies in Toronto -- she's asking.

I can't see how a marriage with kids (especially little gaffers like I have) would last longer than one unannounced 5 day trip to Philadelphia to see 4 PJ shows. I guess we'll see.

Evergreen

Songburst wrote:

I think that you guys may have misinterpreted my "permission" post. Any major events for us are a 6-hour drive (or a plane ride) and usually a 2 day commitment at a minimum. Anything in town is fair game pretty much with no notice, no questions asked for either of us. If I want to go to see an NHL game in Minny or Chicago or Ottawa, I am required to ask. If my wife wants to go see Chris Cornell with her buddies in Toronto -- she's asking.

I can't see how a marriage with kids (especially little gaffers like I have) would last longer than one unannounced 5 day trip to Philadelphia to see 4 PJ shows. I guess we'll see.

I didn't misinterpret. Yes, I tell him, but I don't ask and likewise him to me. That includes wacky travel plans. In fact, I just told him that we are flying back early from visiting family in Austin (yes, I arranged it for ACL) so I could hop in a car to drive by myself to San Diego to be able to meet my best friend flying in from Memphis and I can take her to her first PJ concert. Yes, I had to change all of our airline tickets. When I was in San Francisco in December for a Black Crowes 5 night Fillmore run, I purchased my tickets to go to Woodstock to see them record in Febrary without saying anything until I was home. It has been this way for years. If we don't have anything else on the schedule that we are suppose to be doing together...then whatever.

He, in turn, has done the same on the drop of a dime. He has taken off for some Stanley cup finals...actually with one, he called me and left like in an hour...I didn't even see him off. AND, on a funny note, just a bit ago, he said he was taking off for the weekend for some mine exploring and 4 wheeling in Jerome, AZ. No big deal...

Songburst

Evergreen85024 wrote:

I didn't misinterpret. Yes, I tell him, but I don't ask and likewise him to me. That includes wacky travel plans. In fact, I just told him that we are flying back early from visiting family in Austin (yes, I arranged it for ACL) so I could hop in a car to drive by myself to San Diego to be able to meet my best friend flying in from Memphis and I can take her to her first PJ concert. Yes, I had to change all of our airline tickets. When I was in San Francisco in December for a Black Crowes 5 night Fillmore run, I purchased my tickets to go to Woodstock to see them record in Febrary without saying anything until I was home. It has been this way for years. If we don't have anything else on the schedule that we are suppose to be doing together...then whatever.

He, in turn, has done the same on the drop of a dime. He has taken off for some Stanley cup finals...actually with one, he called me and left like in an hour...I didn't even see him off. AND, on a funny note, just a bit ago, he said he was taking off for the weekend for some mine exploring and 4 wheeling in Jerome, AZ. No big deal...

Well -- that's cool. That kind of spontaneity wouldn't fly around here I'm sure.

decides2dream

Evergreen85024 wrote:

I have total free rein when it comes to PJ and that has been the understanding since we saw them in 91 together and he did not get it like I did.

He just knows. If I get an email, I buy and figure it all out later. End of story.

Oh, and he knows EV is officially on "the list" too, and it's ok.

and that's awesome for you!
others just conduct their marriages a wee bit differently, and as long as everyone is happy, win-win! there is no one right way to live, and certainly no one right way to be happy in a relationship.


i just would never even think of say planning a trip to oz for a 2 weeks without talking about it first with my husband. and i know he feels, and acts, the same way for his own wants and plans. we still give each other pretty much free reign to do as we choose....we simply prefer to consult with one another first. this works for us, your way works for your relationship...others have different ways, and so it goes....

Minou

Having to ask for "permission" to do things and calmly discussing, as two adults, what you want to do are two completely different things. As long as both parties are equal adults in a relationship, it's good.

But when you get into the child-parent dynamic, it's intolerable and can quickly descend into abuse. I've been the "6-year-old girl" asking for permission in a relationship and it's just plain sick. It's a control issue in the end- don't try to control people! It's horrible. :?

decides2dream

Minou wrote:

Having to ask for "permission" to do things and calmly discussing, as two adults, what you want to do are two completely different things. As long as both parties are equal adults in a relationship, it's good.

But when you get into the child-parent dynamic, it's intolerable and can quickly descend into abuse. I've been the "6-year-old girl" asking for permission in a relationship and it's just plain sick. It's a control issue in the end- don't try to control people! It's horrible. :?

of course it is, i think most of us did differentiate the two. however, some used the shorthand of calling it 'permission'....but sure, it's simply about discussion.

i don't think anyone here was even remotely suggesting a parent/child dynamic within a marriage, and certainly none would ever suggest that as being healthy. obviously there are extreme/abusive relationships, but i don't imagine anyone here was at all discussing their own relationships in such a light. i would think at the very least, we all were/am discussing healthy and happy marriages....and how even amongst them all, how very much they can vary. a relationship/marriage is going to vary as greatly as individuals vary....which is to say, a lot.

getting back to the heart of the matter, i DO know of quite a few women, myself included...who travel to shows solo, have gone to shows solo....and go to an equal amount of shows with friends, female and male.....and/or my husband. i think if nothing else, this thread illustrates that even if female fans of pj are a minority, we certainly are an independent-minded bunch, and involved with equally respectful and independent men. tis all good.