Another abortion thread

decides2dream

ksacco_06 wrote:

I guess we have to agree to disagree. It has been interesting have this conversation on this post. Pretty much what is expected.

To touch on a few points before closing, I would like to say how disgusting your comment is on "just because it is alive doesn't mean it has a right to life". It's really cold and bitter.

I do not believe in FORCING but RIGHT TO LIFE at every stage of development and under any circumstance. My heart isn't hard towards struggling women but very much open. The only difference is my heart is also open for the small growing life inside her.

As for my stats they are not BS as you so crudely put it, but instead solid and researched facts.

The only thing I am trying to bring is some clarity and light on a dark and deadly subject.

Blessings : )

absolutely.

they may be 'disgusting' to you, and perhaps others....but obviosuly i disagree. i am a compassionate person, just not perhaps in regards to this topic or life you deem important. i don't consider a spider's life important, i regularly will squash bugs if they are in my home/in my way....definitely have it in for mosquitos......i am a meat eater/wear leather, etc, etc. and we as species don't seem to have much respect for life in general, and most especially towards other creatures in general. so in regards to 'rights to life' i just simply do not see life in that light, period, no matter the species. we have no more right to be born than any other creature on this earth...and again, a woman's body 'makes the decision to abort' naturally, aka miscarriage, all on it's own, so i wonder where the 'right to life' is there? life and death ARE.


and i guess it was just misrepresentation of your view then when you stated quite clearly, even underlined, you are pro-life under all circumstances, which i inferred to mean....you want the fetus to take precedence, always. to me that means, woman's life is in danger? too bad. been raped? still have that baby. your baby will be born dead? well, you can still carry it to term and give birth. all of that seems pretty cold and heartless to me towards the mother, but differing perspectives...


and the only stats i called "BS" on was that every aborted fetus would actully have a welcome home if it were not destroyed.....and i still will say that. it's easy for some to say oh yes..i want a baby...i'd adopt. however, when the reality may well be a child that is not exactly what they want...it could well be an enirely different story. beyond which, many might say they'd like to adopt, be willing to adopt...but when it comes down to it, don't meet the criteria - which is pretty stringent - to become adoptive parents. bottomline, as i said, imo, makes no difference what someone else desires. tis the woman's body, her choice.

sorry if i don't see any 'clarity and light" being added....and the only thing i see as dark and deadly is when a woman is not allowed to make her own choices, especially for her own body, her own life and said risks to her life.


certainly...all the best to you too tho.

_

ksacco_06 wrote:

1) So you are wondering why I take time to research information. Well, if you are passionate about something you want to learn more. It's like every member in the 10club. People are passionate about Pearl Jam and want to know more and more about their lives and music. There is nothing wrong with being passionate for pro-life. As a woman and a Christian it is a big deal to me.

I'm not wondering why you take time to research information. I am wondering why someone's sole purpose in researching information would be to debate people with alternate opinions, which is what I read in your statement. I agree that if when people are passionate about something they want to learn more, which is why it seemed odd to me that that didn't seem to be your purpose.

ksacco_06 wrote:

2)I have't taken time to read the issue around the abortion ban.

It's interesting reading, and I'd be interested to know your opinion about it if you get the chance.

ksacco_06 wrote:

3)There is no excuse for a mother (working mother) to have an abortion. I do not believe that social reasons are valid. It's an inconvenience . . . and that's all. The revelance of a working mother means she has the means to support a child.

What about a mother who's not working? What if she's working for minimum wage and already has other kids to support? Just trying to clarify your position here.

ksacco_06 wrote:

4)Aborting a baby because of a disability/illness is the height of prejudice. We don't cure the illness by killing the patient. The worth of that unborn baby means absolutely nothing if it is aborted because of poor health.

What if they are incurable illnesses? Again, just trying to pinpoint your position.

5) Please don't twist my words around to mean something different. It means exactly what I intended to say. Every human being has the right to live! [/quote]

Didn't mean to twist your words. Let me try again. Plenty of people have rights they choose not to exercise. For instance, I have the right to bear arms but feel that it would not be in the best interest of me or my community to do so, so I choose not to. A right is not a mandate. A right just means someone can have/use something if they want to, right?

_

ksacco_06 wrote:

scb wrote:

ksacco_06 wrote:

First, call it what you want, but when it truly truly comes down to it the "blastocyst" or "embryo" is a baby. Those are scientific terms for baby. According to science, from the moment of fertilization the woman is holding a growing human. Most abortions are not performed until about 9 weeks of gestation. By then the heart is beating and brain waves are detectable.
You said. . . "if someone wants to terminate something living within their own bodies". . . so then you must agree to some degree that a fetus, if you will, is living. And it is! A woman who carries a child has the privilege to help it grow! It certainly is forming on it's own. The mother is only providing a safe haven and nutrients. It's amazing.

In what context are you claiming that most abortions are not performed until 9 weeks?

I say that most abortions are not performed until about 9 weeks of pregnancy because that means by then there is a heartbeat and brainwaves. For those who do not believe life begins at conception would argue that if there is no heartbeat there is not life.

I think my statement is pretty clear. : )

Maybe my question wasn't clear. When I asked the context of your statistic, I meant: Are you referring to abortions in the U.S. or in the world? Is this recent data?

I ask because, in the United States as of a 2007 report (using 2004 data), 63% of abortions were performed at less than 9 weeks. So, in fact, MOST abortions are performed before 9 weeks of pregnancy.

_

ksacco_06 wrote:

I don't even know where to begin with your comment : ) I'm going to be brief.

You say most abortions are performed before 12 weeks. I agree. However, in the time between 6-12 (when most abortions take place) there is a heartbeat, detectable brainwaves and fingers/toes (yay!!).

For that 7% of women who are confronted with difficulties need to be treated with compassion, support and nurturing. Forcing is a strong word which I'm not suggesting. For babies that have a detectable medical problem there is no reason to have an abortion. Aborting a baby because of an abnormality is nothing less than blatant discrimination against the disabled.

For women struggling with rape/incest (rare) need to be handled with care and professional guidance. Instead of aborting a baby that has done nothing wrong the woman should consider other options. One act of violence against the woman is enough.

I read once in a journal that there are more than enough willing families to adopt babies being aborted. How about that awesome statement?? I love stuff like that.

How is compelling/requiring/whateverf a woman to have a baby she does not want to have not forcing? It is a strong word - and people who want this to happen should own that.

I agree that one act of violence against a woman (rape victim) is enough - and many would consider being forced into pregnancy and childbirth to be another act of violence against her.

Please provide your source for the statement that there are more than enough willing families to adopt babies being aborted. I simply don't believe that's true.

GTFLYGIRL

ksacco_06 wrote:

I read once in a journal that there are more than enough willing families to adopt babies being aborted. How about that awesome statement?? I love stuff like that.

well that sure is and awesome and precious statement

i've worked in foster care for 18 years

it's not reality... maybe awesome and prercious... but certainly NOT reality

even with abortion being legal there are so so so so so many unwanted children.

i work in group homes now... mostly kids that have been adopted and thrown back in the system again and have NO familes

what a fucking mess they are and the entire foster care system is... partially because we already have too many unwanted children in the world

it's very fucking sad.

A satellite forever orbiting

GTFLYGIRL wrote:

there are so so so so so many unwanted children.

i work in group homes now... mostly kids that have been adopted and thrown back in the system again and have NO familes

what a fucking mess they are and the entire foster care system is... partially because we already have too many unwanted children in the world

it's very fucking sad.

i never post in this forum, but fuck...when i read the part about unwanted children...NO family. shit...that made me really upset.

pandora

I am Pro-Choice as I have posted previously
this because I believe we are here on this earth to learn and love, to understand compassion, to experience the good and bad from our decisions - to grow- to look back on a life when we leave this world and realize it ALL.

A Gov or another's beliefs can not dictate the experiences of our lives. We must make those decisions ourselves. I can not imagine a world where a woman is FORCED to carry an unwanted child. Forced to experience that.
It must be a choice there is no going back to before 1/22/73.

I do not like the pro choice argument though about fetus not being a child or when exactly it is etc- it seems weak and ridiculous to me. I think we all know that left to grow that will be a child. For me the only argument is Choice. A woman must have a choice.

With this thought I am also grateful for the pro life advocates. Their view point we need to learn compassion for the unborn child. They speak for the unborn.A woman, because of this debate, may think of giving up of herself to give Life.

decides2dream

GTFLYGIRL wrote:

ksacco_06 wrote:

I read once in a journal that there are more than enough willing families to adopt babies being aborted. How about that awesome statement?? I love stuff like that.

well that sure is and awesome and precious statement

i've worked in foster care for 18 years

it's not reality... maybe awesome and prercious... but certainly NOT reality

even with abortion being legal there are so so so so so many unwanted children.

i work in group homes now... mostly kids that have been adopted and thrown back in the system again and have NO familes

what a fucking mess they are and the entire foster care system is... partially because we already have too many unwanted children in the world

it's very fucking sad.

oh well, cmon now....ksacco is only referring to babies! and doesn't everyone want babies! they're like puppies....we all want one!



seriously, thank you. that's the point, isn't it? if sooo many people would be willing to adopt all these unwanted babies, well WHY do we have so many unwanted children in the foster care system, including babies? perhaps b/c they are not the 'right' color, or in perfect health, etc.....not the *ideal* that most who want to adopt a child do desire. and again, many who say they would like to adopt, those 'willing families' may well be denied. there's just no way to say so simply 'every aborted baby would have a home'....


and as ever

scb wrote:

I ask because, in the United States as of a 2007 report (using 2004 data), 63% of abortions were performed at less than 9 weeks. So, in fact, MOST abortions are performed before 9 weeks of pregnancy.

thanks for the stats. 63% under 9 weeks, 89% under 12 weeks - all without central nervous systems....so that leaves only 11% beyond that. i have no stats as to the 'whys' of the later dates, but i would imagine a good # of that percentage would also be apart of the 7% mentioned earlier....most escpecially, the medically necessary abortion (when the mother's life is in danger)....and also when it is deemed the fetus will be stillborn.




btw - in regards to the career women having the most abortions ( a claim i will neither agree or disagree with b/c i honestly just don't know).....but even if true, so what? what exactly does that prove? that women with careers are aware of their legal options and choose to utilize them? they have access to doctors and clinics and choose to go? a woman with a career means nothing more than she is employed. i know plenty of 'career women'.....well-educated women....who in no way could afford to support a child, especially on their own, and yes....who will care for their baby while they are at work? just b/c one earns a paycheck doesn't mean they make a lot of $$$, nor does it mean they have any support network in place either. and even if she can afford it, you think being able to afford a child is the only reason one choose to have, or not have, a baby? there's so much more to it. besides which, thankfully, women have the legal option to make a choice for themselves of what they truly want. either way, it's her choice.

_

decides2dream wrote:

btw - in regards to the career women having the most abortions ( a claim i will neither agree or disagree with b/c i honestly just don't know).....but even if true, so what? what exactly does that prove? that women with careers are aware of their legal options and choose to utilize them? they have access to doctors and clinics and choose to go? a woman with a career means nothing more than she is employed. i know plenty of 'career women'.....well-educated women....who in no way could afford to support a child, especially on their own, and yes....who will care for their baby while they are at work? just b/c one earns a paycheck doesn't mean they make a lot of $$$, nor does it mean they have any support network in place either. and even if she can afford it, you think being able to afford a child is the only reason one choose to have, or not have, a baby? there's so much more to it. besides which, thankfully, women have the legal option to make a choice for themselves of what they truly want. either way, it's her choice.

Exactly. I think it's especially significant that:

1. There is a huge and increasing disparity in unintended pregnancy based on income, with unintended pregnancy increasing by 29% among poor women in the United States from 1994 to 2001.

2. MOST women (73%) having abortions in the U.S. cited inability to afford a baby right then as one of the reasons for choosing abortion.

3. MOST women (74%) having abortion in the U.S. cited concern for and/or responisibility to other individuals (such as their existing children) as one of the reasons for choosing abortion. MOST women (61%) having abortions are mothers.

4. MOST women (57%) having abortion in the U.S. are living at less than 200% of the poverty level ($28,300 gross for a family of three). The abortion rate is increasingly higher as income decreases (10 per 1,000 women of reproductive age for those who live at or above 300% of the poverty level compared to 44 per 1,000 for those who live at less than 100%).

So, although I don't know whether or not it's true that most women who have abortions are employed (I would guess that "career women" is a stretch though), I think it's obvious that employment itself does not make one financially able to care for a child.

I would love for some people who are so concerned about abortion to actually see the bigger picture and maybe even address these issues.

And that's just the income factor. Don't even get me started on how maternal mortality is still the leading cause of death among women worldwide, and the death rates due to abortion in countries where it is illegal.....

GTFLYGIRL

Speaking on the cost of a child... this is an aisde... and lends itself to another HUGE problem is the US

Ok... It costs approximately $17,000 a year to send your child to a SUNY school (State University of New York) that is an estimate from their website and incudes room and board and books.

You know what is costs to send a 2 year old to full time day care on Long Island? OVER 16,000 a year!

Average is between $285-$310 a week. Theres is a "summer camp differential" and/or a seperate tuition at most for the months of July and August. And an annual enrollment fee each September.

I was paying $290... then he moved to "preschool" which is $10 less... but now we have our $35 summer camp differential! AND... all the school runs the same way. You must pay by the week... because they are holding your child's spot. SO if your child is sick... or does someting like two years olds sometimes do... scratches or bites or something and can't go to school... it's $10 an hour IF YOU ARE LUCKY ENOUGH TO FIND A DECENT BABYSITTER!!!!!!! There were about two months were i had an average of about 6 missed days a month... that's an extra $350 a month!!!

Financially, I can barely afford to keep my kid in a decent daycare .... and i have a masters degree!! Granted they dont pay me much to help care for all the unwanted children (already) roaming the planet... but still...

Before anyone says that "career women" (LOL) have the means to care for a child ... EVEN IF YOU CAN AFFORD IT..... there are also a lot of other factors... like familial supports and the ability to provide the child with a loving, stable, nurturing environment. At times this can be quite a feat.

decides2dream

GTFLYGIRL wrote:

Speaking on the cost of a child... this is an aisde... and lends itself to another HUGE problem is the US

Ok... It costs approximately $17,000 a year to send your child to a SUNY school (State University of New York) that is an estimate from their website and incudes room and board and books.

You know what is costs to send a 2 year old to full time day care on Long Island? OVER 16,000 a year!

Average is between $285-$310 a week. Theres is a "summer camp differential" and/or a seperate tuition at most for the months of July and August. And an annual enrollment fee each September.

I was paying $290... then he moved to "preschool" which is $10 less... but now we have our $35 summer camp differential! AND... all the school runs the same way. You must pay by the week... because they are holding your child's spot. SO if your child is sick... or does someting like two years olds sometimes do... scratches or bites or something and can't go to school... it's $10 an hour IF YOU ARE LUCKY ENOUGH TO FIND A DECENT BABYSITTER!!!!!!! There were about two months were i had an average of about 6 missed days a month... that's an extra $350 a month!!!

Financially, I can barely afford to keep my kid in a decent daycare .... and i have a masters degree!! Granted they dont pay me much to help care for all the unwanted children (already) roaming the planet... but still...

Before anyone says that "career women" (LOL) have the means to care for a child ... EVEN IF YOU CAN AFFORD IT..... there are also a lot of other factors... like familial supports and the ability to provide the child with a loving, stable, nurturing environment. At times this can be quite a feat.

REALLY well-stated, and exactly what i was alluding to. i am really tired of the 'judgements' for what others may perceive as the reasons for women choosing as they do. shirking responsibility, choosing career over the child, convenience, etc. there are a whole host of reasons why a woman may choose abortion as opposed to following thru with a pregnancy......and they are HER reasons. she does not owe anyone an explanation, and i think it is 'horrible and bitter' to borrow words from another post...for so many to lay down judgements on people and actions they have NO idea why they were chosen! and beyond all the reasons.....it's still her CHOICE.

decides2dream

scb wrote:

decides2dream wrote:

btw - in regards to the career women having the most abortions ( a claim i will neither agree or disagree with b/c i honestly just don't know).....but even if true, so what? what exactly does that prove? that women with careers are aware of their legal options and choose to utilize them? they have access to doctors and clinics and choose to go? a woman with a career means nothing more than she is employed. i know plenty of 'career women'.....well-educated women....who in no way could afford to support a child, especially on their own, and yes....who will care for their baby while they are at work? just b/c one earns a paycheck doesn't mean they make a lot of $$$, nor does it mean they have any support network in place either. and even if she can afford it, you think being able to afford a child is the only reason one choose to have, or not have, a baby? there's so much more to it. besides which, thankfully, women have the legal option to make a choice for themselves of what they truly want. either way, it's her choice.

Exactly. I think it's especially significant that:

1. There is a huge and increasing disparity in unintended pregnancy based on income, with unintended pregnancy increasing by 29% among poor women in the United States from 1994 to 2001.

2. MOST women (73%) having abortions in the U.S. cited inability to afford a baby right then as one of the reasons for choosing abortion.

3. MOST women (74%) having abortion in the U.S. cited concern for and/or responisibility to other individuals (such as their existing children) as one of the reasons for choosing abortion. MOST women (61%) having abortions are mothers.

4. MOST women (57%) having abortion in the U.S. are living at less than 200% of the poverty level ($28,300 gross for a family of three). The abortion rate is increasingly higher as income decreases (10 per 1,000 women of reproductive age for those who live at or above 300% of the poverty level compared to 44 per 1,000 for those who live at less than 100%).

So, although I don't know whether or not it's true that most women who have abortions are employed (I would guess that "career women" is a stretch though), I think it's obvious that employment itself does not make one financially able to care for a child.

I would love for some people who are so concerned about abortion to actually see the bigger picture and maybe even address these issues.

And that's just the income factor. Don't even get me started on how maternal mortality is still the leading cause of death among women worldwide, and the death rates due to abortion in countries where it is illegal.....

WOW. to all of it, but especially the parts i bolded. i did not know this. perhaps if BC were cheaper, especially BC such as the BC pill...and/or.....all had health insurance WITH prescriptions covered....it just might help some with the poverty correlation. and obviously, a woman already a mother with other mouths to feed and care for....making a decision that she thinks best aides her entire FAMILY, not just herself.


thanks once more for all the stats.

_

GTFLYGIRL wrote:

Speaking on the cost of a child... this is an aisde... and lends itself to another HUGE problem is the US

Ok... It costs approximately $17,000 a year to send your child to a SUNY school (State University of New York) that is an estimate from their website and incudes room and board and books.

You know what is costs to send a 2 year old to full time day care on Long Island? OVER 16,000 a year!

Average is between $285-$310 a week. Theres is a "summer camp differential" and/or a seperate tuition at most for the months of July and August. And an annual enrollment fee each September.

I was paying $290... then he moved to "preschool" which is $10 less... but now we have our $35 summer camp differential! AND... all the school runs the same way. You must pay by the week... because they are holding your child's spot. SO if your child is sick... or does someting like two years olds sometimes do... scratches or bites or something and can't go to school... it's $10 an hour IF YOU ARE LUCKY ENOUGH TO FIND A DECENT BABYSITTER!!!!!!! There were about two months were i had an average of about 6 missed days a month... that's an extra $350 a month!!!

Financially, I can barely afford to keep my kid in a decent daycare .... and i have a masters degree!! Granted they dont pay me much to help care for all the unwanted children (already) roaming the planet... but still...

Before anyone says that "career women" (LOL) have the means to care for a child ... EVEN IF YOU CAN AFFORD IT..... there are also a lot of other factors... like familial supports and the ability to provide the child with a loving, stable, nurturing environment. At times this can be quite a feat.

Wow - thanks for that insight! And that cost doesn't even include room and board and books! I think so many people pass judgement about what other people can afford when they really have no experience trying to afford a kid or even knowledge of what things cost.

_

decides2dream wrote:

REALLY well-stated, and exactly what i was alluding to. i am really tired of the 'judgements' for what others may perceive as the reasons for women choosing as they do. shirking responsibility, choosing career over the child, convenience, etc. there are a whole host of reasons why a woman may choose abortion as opposed to following thru with a pregnancy......and they are HER reasons. she does not owe anyone an explanation, and i think it is 'horrible and bitter' to borrow words from another post...for so many to lay down judgements on people and actions they have NO idea why they were chosen! and beyond all the reasons.....it's still her CHOICE.

What's that saying I've read somewhere? Judge not lest ye be judged? Never judge a person 'til you walk a mile in her shoes? Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones?

I think it's important to note the difference between judging someone's actions (at which point, you still need not impose your belief system upon them) and judging someone's intentions/heart/circumstances/etc. (of which no one else can really have any knowledge).

_

cincybearcat wrote:

scb - so much going on in your last post...

1) Why is it all of a sudden a problem for you that someone researces a topic for debate? Seems very reasonable and appropriate.

2) Social reasons can't be valid? You have to ask that question to someone that believes that human life begins at conception? (which is what I thin he/she believes)

And, now you are going to suggest that there are "unborn fetuses" that don't want to live? Seriously? Wow, just wow.

I was just thinking some more about this post so I decided to re-reply.

1) Why do you keep attaching value judgements to my questions? That's really irritating, and a misrepresentation of what I'm saying. Also, when she said "I have researched for several years on abortion to debate people who are for it," it made me wonder if she was in one of those groups whose sole purpose is to debate people who are pro-choice. Again, this was a simple question. (I also suspected this because she hasn't provided any real sources for all her "research" and the data she presented is inaccurate. Interestingly, she never did answer my question.)

2) Again, a neutral question. And your suggestion that I should presume that anyone who believes human life begins at conception necessarily believes social reasons can't be valid is ignorant. I, myself, believe human life begins at conception and I think social reasons are totally valid.

3) I have never suggested that unborn fetuses want to NOT live. I just don't think it follows from "everyone has the right to life" that no one should ever have an abortion. We need to recognize that a) rights are not mandates, and b) those who believe that are projecting their own beliefs onto the fetus.

_

GTFLYGIRL wrote:

Speaking on the cost of a child... this is an aisde... and lends itself to another HUGE problem is the US

Ok... It costs approximately $17,000 a year to send your child to a SUNY school (State University of New York) that is an estimate from their website and incudes room and board and books.

You know what is costs to send a 2 year old to full time day care on Long Island? OVER 16,000 a year!

Average is between $285-$310 a week. Theres is a "summer camp differential" and/or a seperate tuition at most for the months of July and August. And an annual enrollment fee each September.

I was paying $290... then he moved to "preschool" which is $10 less... but now we have our $35 summer camp differential! AND... all the school runs the same way. You must pay by the week... because they are holding your child's spot. SO if your child is sick... or does someting like two years olds sometimes do... scratches or bites or something and can't go to school... it's $10 an hour IF YOU ARE LUCKY ENOUGH TO FIND A DECENT BABYSITTER!!!!!!! There were about two months were i had an average of about 6 missed days a month... that's an extra $350 a month!!!

Financially, I can barely afford to keep my kid in a decent daycare .... and i have a masters degree!! Granted they dont pay me much to help care for all the unwanted children (already) roaming the planet... but still...

Before anyone says that "career women" (LOL) have the means to care for a child ... EVEN IF YOU CAN AFFORD IT..... there are also a lot of other factors... like familial supports and the ability to provide the child with a loving, stable, nurturing environment. At times this can be quite a feat.

Let’s do some math…

So, as I pointed out earlier, 57% of women having abortion in the United States live at less than 200% of the federal poverty level – which (at the time of the study) was $28,300 for a family of 3 (before taxes). How much money is left over to support said family once daycare expenses are paid? For the sake of argument, let’s even assume that this family of 3 consists of two parents (married, of course) and one (non-bastard) child of theirs. So….

$28,300
- $16,000

---

$12,300

So that’s $12,300 left to support two adults and one child for a full year. That’s $1,025 per month to pay for rent, utilities, food, diapers, clothes, transportation, healthcare, etc. for 3 people.

Are there really people here who still think EVERY woman with a job can afford to have a baby? Can people still not understand how someone might not be able to afford reliable contraception? (God forbid it was a single woman with 2 children, or the next pregnancy resulted in twins!)

GTFLYGIRL

scb wrote:

Let’s do some math…

So, as I pointed out earlier, 57% of women having abortion in the United States live at less than 200% of the federal poverty level – which (at the time of the study) was $28,300 for a family of 3 (before taxes). How much money is left over to support said family once daycare expenses are paid? For the sake of argument, let’s even assume that this family of 3 consists of two parents (married, of course) and one (non-bastard) child of theirs. So….

$28,300
- $16,000

---

$12,300

So that’s $12,300 left to support two adults and one child for a full year. That’s $1,025 per month to pay for rent, utilities, food, diapers, clothes, transportation, healthcare, etc. for 3 people.

Are there really people here who still think EVERY woman with a job can afford to have a baby? Can people still not understand how someone might not be able to afford reliable contraception? (God forbid it was a single woman with 2 children, or the next pregnancy resulted in twins!)

BTW...... Isn't that 28,300 BEFORE taxes?

catefrances

why do you all care what a woman does with her body anyways?????

cincybearcat

catefrances wrote:

why do you all care what a woman does with her body anyways?????

I don't. I'm worried about what she is doing to the baby's body inside of her.

catefrances

cincybearcat wrote:

catefrances wrote:

why do you all care what a woman does with her body anyways?????

I don't. I'm worried about what she is doing to the baby's body inside of her.

well you know what? if youre not prepared to raise the foetus once it becomes a child because i cant cope with its being, then you all need to just worry about yourself. it aggravates me no end that people think they have the right to say what it is i can and cant do with my body. having an abortion is not an easy decision to make. it can lead to all sorts of problems. the opinion i hold as to my ability to raise a child i am illprepared for far outweighs any supposed moral objection strangers have.