One thing I can't understand is that if physician assisted abortion is allowed, why isn't physician assisted suicide?
Well, I don't think they are the same...but, strangely enough, I am ok with physician assisted suicide.
Interesting. I think they're almost exactly the same. We've probably discussed this before, but remind me, please, of why you think they're necessarily different. Do you think they're even sometimes the same?
[....and i get tired of people referring as such. of course, it makes for a more sensational/emotional arguement, but the fact remains...not a baby. then, sure.
And I get tired of people referring to what will most undoubtably be born a baby as something else to make them feel better abotu their choice. It's not growing to become an apple.
But it's not a baby YET, especially at the gestational age at which most abortions occur.
On a related note (context)..... I just read that 220,000 children wordwide lose their mothers every year because of deaths due to unsafe/illegal abortions.
That is terrible...as is this...
"Number of abortions per year: Approximately 42 Million"
Does anyone have a better number from a potentially better source? Most of the ones I found were anti-abortion websites and I know some sensationilze the subject matter...I'd just like the facts.
Yes, that's accurate as of the most recent data (2003). It's down from 46 million in 1995.
Perhaps they're both terrible. I'm just trying to give some context. People can say abortion should be illegal because it's terrible to "kill unborn babies", but they need to also consider what happens to the born children when abortion is illegal. Is that what they want - orphaned children? They'll say that's not what they want & they're just trying to protect the unborn babies. But then those of us who are pro-choice should point out that we are trying to protect the born children. Therey's no one side that's evil or immoral. It sickens me when people think their "pro-life" stance has no consequence except to get them into Heaven.
or that is simply ends with 'saving babies'....b/c as much has been discussed, many of these babies are hardly 'saved'. sure, they may get to live, or not. they may still get aborted, by illegal and dangerous means...they may survive a botched abortion done by unskilled hands....they may be abused, thrown out in the trash....they may end up addicted to drugs or alcohol, health issues....they may end up forever within the foster care system......they may glive in utter poverty....and of course, they may be 'saved' and have a wonderful family life with their birth mother...or they may be adopted into a wonderful home. point is, to think that the last 2 scenarios are the norm of what will happen to this baby, is foolhardy at best. beyond which, some of us simply believe it is the mother's choice to decide what she wants for herself.
One thing I can't understand is that if physician assisted abortion is allowed, why isn't physician assisted suicide?
Well, I don't think they are the same...but, strangely enough, I am ok with physician assisted suicide.
Interesting. I think they're almost exactly the same. We've probably discussed this before, but remind me, please, of why you think they're necessarily different. Do you think they're even sometimes the same?
Sometimes the same...after thinking, yes, when the health/life of the mother is at risk, it is very similar.
I think they are different because in assisted suicide, the person is making the decision themselves and it effects themself. In abortion, the decision is made by 1 person and it effects a different person (my point of view).
Interesting. I think they're almost exactly the same. We've probably discussed this before, but remind me, please, of why you think they're necessarily different. Do you think they're even sometimes the same?
Sometimes the same...after thinking, yes, when the health/life of the mother is at risk, it is very similar.
I think they are different because in assisted suicide, the person is making the decision themselves and it effects themself. In abortion, the decision is made by 1 person and it effects a different person (my point of view).
Yes, good point. I guess I was thinking more of "pulling the plug" on someone. Do you think that can be the same as abortion?
Just to confirm (since I don't have a medical manual handy, and I can't find it easily on google), a "fetus" is not a "baby" even 1 hour before they are born, correct? And thus, inducing an abortion at that time does not abort a baby - so even at that late of a date, since the name is not a "baby", no harm no foul? Do I have it right?
i knew someone would go there.
and yes, you are right...of course not. imo, once a fetus has sensory perception, there should be no right to abortion except in absolute extreme circumstances.....as in, medical necessity for the health of the mother. and even there, absolutely tragic, b/c we all know this fetus can feel pain, and what a difficult decision....but i still would put the life of the mother before the fetus.
i should know better, and be much more specific in my words.
'technically' though.... it would still be a fetus. but NO where did i state that one can kill a fetus at ANY time. i merely stated the fact that a fetus is a fetus and not a baby. obviously, right at birth....even an hoiur before...in the birthing process. if you want me to pinpoint that magical, exact moment that a fetus becomes a baby, i cannot. however, for all practical purposes....especially given that 89% of abortions occur before this time....i am mostly referring to fetuses at 12 weeks gestation or less. definitely NOT a baby.
I think this whole thread is about going there.
And I wasn't trying to pull one over on you. You made a clear statement that was basing abortion on the name we call the living-thing, rather than the developmental stage it's at.
My GF who has her masters in marine biology and is a high school life sciences teacher says a fetus/baby/whatever-name-fits-your-agenda isn't "alive" until it takes it's first breath. I asked her the same question, what about a day before birth, and she said again "not until it takes it's first breath". And I said "what if there is a problem with it's lungs, so in the womb doctors stick tubes in it's veins which will oxygenate the blood without breathing. The "thing" could be 2 years old and still not "alive" because it hasn't taken it's first breath, right? ...she did not enjoy me using her own logic against her, but I still stand by the point.
One of my nieces was a premie and needed to be in one of those protective cases for a few weeks. I'm sure abortions have occurred at a later date than her birth, but in one case it's a "fetus" and ok for abortion, yet in another case it's a "baby" and illegal to kill. Which one is right? Are both right? If so, how can that be?
Post edited by CJMST3K on
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I think they are different because in assisted suicide, the person is making the decision themselves and it effects themself. In abortion, the decision is made by 1 person and it effects a different person (my point of view).
i actually agree with you here. i do think they are different, for the exact reasons you state (tho on a technicality, i disagree with the use of the term 'person').
no matter my personal beliefs in regards to abortion, i fully accept the fact that ending the life of an embryo or fetus is ending a seperate (albeit entirely dependent/not fully developed) life from the mother.
CJM..i know you weren't trying to 'pull one over on me'....and i admit my wording was shoddy and lacking for what i truly meant to express. you can certainly 'go there'....but for me, as i do not advocate late-term abortions for anything outside of medical necessity, when exactly the fetus becomes a baby isn't such a great concern of mine....except to see that when i do fully support the right to abortion (outside of the above mentioned) it is not a baby. it is not fully formed, it cannot exist outside of the mother's womb....not a baby. i guess i would say once a fetus is to the point of full formation and could survive outside the mother's womb, that then would be a baby. when is that exactly...i am unsure....5 or 6 months at the earliest?
btw - a blastocyst is 'alive'...i fully agree the point of conception that life begins. two live cells join, a sperm cell and an egg.....both alive.....and they form a new, merged life. ad i know people get offended when i say such things, and i mean no offense by the comparison...but a germ cell is alive, an amoeba, a paramecium, every cell in my body, etc. every cell in my body is a human cell, but human cells, alone, even with unique DNA, do not make A human being, merely they are human.
embryos/fetuses have a parasitic relationship with their mothers, as long as they are dependent on that mother to live, cannot survive outside the womb, imo, they are embryos/fetuses......not babies.
edit - as to your preemie story, i have one too. one of my nephews was a preemie. however, obviously, they could survive outside the womb. with assistance, but still, could survive. and again, idk enough about when or how many late-term abortions there are, but they are not preformed as a matter of 'convenience' so i really don't see the comparison at all. and sure, they are both 'right'......b/c the fetus is still inside the woman's body, needing her to live...whereas the other is a born baby, can live on outside the body. 'personhood' as a legal term, does not begin until birth.
0.08% of abortion in the U.S. are performed when the fetus may be viable (24 weeks). (I'm sure far fewer are performed at the gestational ages of the premies most of us know.)
Gov. Palin dragged her daughter, Bristol into the fray with her opinions on 'abstinence only' sex education in the public school systems. If an upper class, all-American, God Fearing Christian family raises a teenaged daughter in an abstinence only sex education environment... and ended up with a pregnant, un-wed teenaged daughter... what chances do middle or lower class single parent families living in large metropolitan cities have?
and yes, i realize she did choose to have her baby....which is also a big part of the "choice" portion i am so "pro" for. things is though, she also has a lot of familial, and financial help......many, many others do not. also why i am a huge supporter of REAL sex education AND access to BC.
Gov. Palin dragged her daughter, Bristol into the fray with her opinions on 'abstinence only' sex education in the public school systems. If an upper class, all-American, God Fearing Christian family raises a teenaged daughter in an abstinence only sex education environment... and ended up with a pregnant, un-wed teenaged daughter... what chances do middle or lower class single parent families living in large metropolitan cities have?
and yes, i realize she did choose to have her baby....which is also a big part of the "choice" portion i am so "pro" for. things is though, she also has a lot of familial, and financial help......many, many others do not. also why i am a huge supporter of REAL sex education AND access to BC.
Cosmo wrote:
Gov. Palin dragged her daughter, Bristol into the fray with her opinions on 'abstinence only' sex education in the public school systems. If an upper class, all-American, God Fearing Christian family raises a teenaged daughter in an abstinence only sex education environment... and ended up with a pregnant, un-wed teenaged daughter... what chances do middle or lower class single parent families living in large metropolitan cities have?
This one really takes the cake for one I think it's pretty obvious that none of the posters on here have kids or teenagers.How many kids did you know that had a dad or knew somebody that had a dad that was a Minister or heavily involved in the church and they were total hell raisers.
What do you mean what chances do they have ?? :? They have the same choices every other family has.
Cosmo wrote:
Gov. Palin dragged her daughter, Bristol into the fray with her opinions on 'abstinence only' sex education in the public school systems. If an upper class, all-American, God Fearing Christian family raises a teenaged daughter in an abstinence only sex education environment... and ended up with a pregnant, un-wed teenaged daughter... what chances do middle or lower class single parent families living in large metropolitan cities have?
This one really takes the cake for one I think it's pretty obvious that none of the posters on here have kids or teenagers.How many kids did you know that had a dad or knew somebody that had a dad that was a Minister or heavily involved in the church and they were total hell raisers.
What do you mean what chances do they have ?? :? They have the same choices every other family has.
...
Once again... you COMPLETELY MISS THE POINT.
The point is... ABSTINENCE ONLY sex education DOES NOT WORK. It did not work in the Palin household... how is it supposed to work in a single parent home in urban America?
...
If i'm wrong here... tell me. I am willing to listen to opposing viewpoints... as long as they STAY ON POINT.
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Cosmo wrote:
Gov. Palin dragged her daughter, Bristol into the fray with her opinions on 'abstinence only' sex education in the public school systems. If an upper class, all-American, God Fearing Christian family raises a teenaged daughter in an abstinence only sex education environment... and ended up with a pregnant, un-wed teenaged daughter... what chances do middle or lower class single parent families living in large metropolitan cities have?
This one really takes the cake for one I think it's pretty obvious that none of the posters on here have kids or teenagers.How many kids did you know that had a dad or knew somebody that had a dad that was a Minister or heavily involved in the church and they were total hell raisers.
What do you mean what chances do they have ?? :? They have the same choices every other family has.
you sure about that?
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My GF who has her masters in marine biology and is a high school life sciences teacher says a fetus/baby/whatever-name-fits-your-agenda isn't "alive" until it takes it's first breath. I asked her the same question, what about a day before birth, and she said again "not until it takes it's first breath". And I said "what if there is a problem with it's lungs, so in the womb doctors stick tubes in it's veins which will oxygenate the blood without breathing. The "thing" could be 2 years old and still not "alive" because it hasn't taken it's first breath, right? ...she did not enjoy me using her own logic against her, but I still stand by the point.
That's not using her logic against her, that's Frankenstein type shit. That's not a person, it's a science experiment.
Cosmo wrote:
Gov. Palin dragged her daughter, Bristol into the fray with her opinions on 'abstinence only' sex education in the public school systems. If an upper class, all-American, God Fearing Christian family raises a teenaged daughter in an abstinence only sex education environment... and ended up with a pregnant, un-wed teenaged daughter... what chances do middle or lower class single parent families living in large metropolitan cities have?
This one really takes the cake for one I think it's pretty obvious that none of the posters on here have kids or teenagers.How many kids did you know that had a dad or knew somebody that had a dad that was a Minister or heavily involved in the church and they were total hell raisers.
What do you mean what chances do they have ?? :? They have the same choices every other family has.
...
Once again... you COMPLETELY MISS THE POINT.
The point is... ABSTINENCE ONLY sex education DOES NOT WORK. It did not work in the Palin household... how is it supposed to work in a single parent home in urban America?
...
If i'm wrong here... tell me. I am willing to listen to opposing viewpoints... as long as they STAY ON POINT.
yeah I'll agree with you abstinince and sex ed may not work all the time but how do you know it doesn't work with some kids. the facts are it does work with some. I went to school with severa l girls that waited untill they got married. And what about the lead singer of KOL isn't he still a virgin maybe Im wrong but I think I read it somewhere and his dad is a preacher
My GF who has her masters in marine biology and is a high school life sciences teacher says a fetus/baby/whatever-name-fits-your-agenda isn't "alive" until it takes it's first breath. I asked her the same question, what about a day before birth, and she said again "not until it takes it's first breath". And I said "what if there is a problem with it's lungs, so in the womb doctors stick tubes in it's veins which will oxygenate the blood without breathing. The "thing" could be 2 years old and still not "alive" because it hasn't taken it's first breath, right? ...she did not enjoy me using her own logic against her, but I still stand by the point.
That's not using her logic against her, that's Frankenstein type shit. That's not a person, it's a science experiment.
So, I assume you would say that all babies who are born with major defects are "Frankenstein type shit"? ...we should just kill 'em to make sure they don't stomp on us, eh?
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yeah I'll agree with you abstinince and sex ed may not work all the time but how do you know it doesn't work with some kids. the facts are it does work with some. I went to school with severa l girls that waited untill they got married. And what about the lead singer of KOL isn't he still a virgin maybe Im wrong but I think I read it somewhere and his dad is a preacher
I remember reading this really great interview with Caleb some time ago where he talked about his dad and his life growing up. He also mentions hookers, so i doubt he is a virgin. That part of his life is his business though, and i have no opinion on that. I'm not posting for that reason, i just thought you might be interested in the article.
yeah I'll agree with you abstinince and sex ed may not work all the time but how do you know it doesn't work with some kids. the facts are it does work with some. I went to school with severa l girls that waited untill they got married. And what about the lead singer of KOL isn't he still a virgin maybe Im wrong but I think I read it somewhere and his dad is a preacher
You really have no idea whether those girls you went to school with - or anyone else for that matter - really waited until they got married. Actually, one of the reasons some girls choose abortion over adoption is so everyone will still think they were virgins.
Even so, just because abstinence-only education may work for a few people doesn't mean it works on a population level. Abstinence itself is just like any other form of birth control - it must be used consistently in order to be effective. And - just like other forms of birth control - it's not used consistently. It's a lso not a good long-term method of contraception, since most everyone will have sex eventually.
As to the original post asking what chance the poor inner-city kids have (or something like that), I think that's a valid question considering that unintended pregnancy rates are higher among people who are poor or minorities.
My GF who has her masters in marine biology and is a high school life sciences teacher says a fetus/baby/whatever-name-fits-your-agenda isn't "alive" until it takes it's first breath. I asked her the same question, what about a day before birth, and she said again "not until it takes it's first breath". And I said "what if there is a problem with it's lungs, so in the womb doctors stick tubes in it's veins which will oxygenate the blood without breathing. The "thing" could be 2 years old and still not "alive" because it hasn't taken it's first breath, right? ...she did not enjoy me using her own logic against her, but I still stand by the point.
That's not using her logic against her, that's Frankenstein type shit. That's not a person, it's a science experiment.
So, I assume you would say that all babies who are born with major defects are "Frankenstein type shit"? ...we should just kill 'em to make sure they don't stomp on us, eh?
No, I'm saying that breathing is still a legitimate standard and the fact that medical science allows you to pump shit into one's body does not mean that failing to do so is equivalent to killing something.
yeah I'll agree with you abstinince and sex ed may not work all the time but how do you know it doesn't work with some kids. the facts are it does work with some. I went to school with severa l girls that waited untill they got married. And what about the lead singer of KOL isn't he still a virgin maybe Im wrong but I think I read it somewhere and his dad is a preacher
You really have no idea whether those girls you went to school with - or anyone else for that matter - really waited until they got married. Actually, one of the reasons some girls choose abortion over adoption is so everyone will still think they were virgins.
Even so, just because abstinence-only education may work for a few people doesn't mean it works on a population level. Abstinence itself is just like any other form of birth control - it must be used consistently in order to be effective. And - just like other forms of birth control - it's not used consistently. It's a lso not a good long-term method of contraception, since most everyone will have sex eventually.
As to the original post asking what chance the poor inner-city kids have (or something like that), I think that's a valid question considering that unintended pregnancy rates are higher among people who are poor or minorities.
exactly.
and ALL of it makes me wonder, are people TRULY concerned with eradicating abortion, or in simply dictating other's sex lives due to their own morality. i look at the LACK of understanding about how BC 'works'....even amongst those who support it, probably use it....smart people....and then wonder why others with less access, perhaps education, coupled with religious/familial pressure.....don't utilize BC all the time, if at all. if we truly do want to make abortion #s go down, we would focus on ease of access to BC, education about BC, how it works, what it entails - especially so people will stop, incorrectly, assuming the morning after pill is some evil abortion method rather than a high-dose of BC pills as it is in actuality - remove stigmas against the use of BC and yea...perhaps we'd see a positive correlation in the #s of abortions dropping off. that is why more and more i think it is less and less about abortion and a helluva lot more about regulating sex. so much for seperation of church and state and land of the free...
yeah I'll agree with you abstinince and sex ed may not work all the time but how do you know it doesn't work with some kids. the facts are it does work with some. I went to school with severa l girls that waited untill they got married. And what about the lead singer of KOL isn't he still a virgin maybe Im wrong but I think I read it somewhere and his dad is a preacher
caleb followill a virgin??????????? bwahahahahaha. i highly doubt that.
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Comments
Interesting. I think they're almost exactly the same. We've probably discussed this before, but remind me, please, of why you think they're necessarily different. Do you think they're even sometimes the same?
But it's not a baby YET, especially at the gestational age at which most abortions occur.
or that is simply ends with 'saving babies'....b/c as much has been discussed, many of these babies are hardly 'saved'. sure, they may get to live, or not. they may still get aborted, by illegal and dangerous means...they may survive a botched abortion done by unskilled hands....they may be abused, thrown out in the trash....they may end up addicted to drugs or alcohol, health issues....they may end up forever within the foster care system......they may glive in utter poverty....and of course, they may be 'saved' and have a wonderful family life with their birth mother...or they may be adopted into a wonderful home. point is, to think that the last 2 scenarios are the norm of what will happen to this baby, is foolhardy at best. beyond which, some of us simply believe it is the mother's choice to decide what she wants for herself.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
Sometimes the same...after thinking, yes, when the health/life of the mother is at risk, it is very similar.
I think they are different because in assisted suicide, the person is making the decision themselves and it effects themself. In abortion, the decision is made by 1 person and it effects a different person (my point of view).
Yes, good point. I guess I was thinking more of "pulling the plug" on someone. Do you think that can be the same as abortion?
I think this whole thread is about going there.
And I wasn't trying to pull one over on you. You made a clear statement that was basing abortion on the name we call the living-thing, rather than the developmental stage it's at.
My GF who has her masters in marine biology and is a high school life sciences teacher says a fetus/baby/whatever-name-fits-your-agenda isn't "alive" until it takes it's first breath. I asked her the same question, what about a day before birth, and she said again "not until it takes it's first breath". And I said "what if there is a problem with it's lungs, so in the womb doctors stick tubes in it's veins which will oxygenate the blood without breathing. The "thing" could be 2 years old and still not "alive" because it hasn't taken it's first breath, right? ...she did not enjoy me using her own logic against her, but I still stand by the point.
One of my nieces was a premie and needed to be in one of those protective cases for a few weeks. I'm sure abortions have occurred at a later date than her birth, but in one case it's a "fetus" and ok for abortion, yet in another case it's a "baby" and illegal to kill. Which one is right? Are both right? If so, how can that be?
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i actually agree with you here. i do think they are different, for the exact reasons you state (tho on a technicality, i disagree with the use of the term 'person').
no matter my personal beliefs in regards to abortion, i fully accept the fact that ending the life of an embryo or fetus is ending a seperate (albeit entirely dependent/not fully developed) life from the mother.
CJM..i know you weren't trying to 'pull one over on me'....and i admit my wording was shoddy and lacking for what i truly meant to express. you can certainly 'go there'....but for me, as i do not advocate late-term abortions for anything outside of medical necessity, when exactly the fetus becomes a baby isn't such a great concern of mine....except to see that when i do fully support the right to abortion (outside of the above mentioned) it is not a baby. it is not fully formed, it cannot exist outside of the mother's womb....not a baby. i guess i would say once a fetus is to the point of full formation and could survive outside the mother's womb, that then would be a baby. when is that exactly...i am unsure....5 or 6 months at the earliest?
btw - a blastocyst is 'alive'...i fully agree the point of conception that life begins. two live cells join, a sperm cell and an egg.....both alive.....and they form a new, merged life. ad i know people get offended when i say such things, and i mean no offense by the comparison...but a germ cell is alive, an amoeba, a paramecium, every cell in my body, etc. every cell in my body is a human cell, but human cells, alone, even with unique DNA, do not make A human being, merely they are human.
embryos/fetuses have a parasitic relationship with their mothers, as long as they are dependent on that mother to live, cannot survive outside the womb, imo, they are embryos/fetuses......not babies.
edit - as to your preemie story, i have one too. one of my nephews was a preemie. however, obviously, they could survive outside the womb. with assistance, but still, could survive. and again, idk enough about when or how many late-term abortions there are, but they are not preformed as a matter of 'convenience' so i really don't see the comparison at all. and sure, they are both 'right'......b/c the fetus is still inside the woman's body, needing her to live...whereas the other is a born baby, can live on outside the body. 'personhood' as a legal term, does not begin until birth.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
and yes, i realize she did choose to have her baby....which is also a big part of the "choice" portion i am so "pro" for. things is though, she also has a lot of familial, and financial help......many, many others do not. also why i am a huge supporter of REAL sex education AND access to BC.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
Well then, we agree on 2/3rds.
This one really takes the cake for one I think it's pretty obvious that none of the posters on here have kids or teenagers.How many kids did you know that had a dad or knew somebody that had a dad that was a Minister or heavily involved in the church and they were total hell raisers.
What do you mean what chances do they have ?? :? They have the same choices every other family has.
Once again... you COMPLETELY MISS THE POINT.
The point is... ABSTINENCE ONLY sex education DOES NOT WORK. It did not work in the Palin household... how is it supposed to work in a single parent home in urban America?
...
If i'm wrong here... tell me. I am willing to listen to opposing viewpoints... as long as they STAY ON POINT.
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you sure about that?
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That's not using her logic against her, that's Frankenstein type shit. That's not a person, it's a science experiment.
yeah I'll agree with you abstinince and sex ed may not work all the time but how do you know it doesn't work with some kids. the facts are it does work with some. I went to school with severa l girls that waited untill they got married. And what about the lead singer of KOL isn't he still a virgin maybe Im wrong but I think I read it somewhere and his dad is a preacher
So, I assume you would say that all babies who are born with major defects are "Frankenstein type shit"? ...we should just kill 'em to make sure they don't stomp on us, eh?
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*MSG 9/10/98 (backstage) *MSG 9/11/98 (backstage)
*Jones Beach 8/23/00 *Jones Beach 8/24/00 *Jones Beach 8/25/00
*Mansfield 8/29/00 *Mansfield 8/30/00 *Nassau 4/30/03 *Nissan VA 7/1/03
*Borgata 10/1/05 *Camden 5/27/06 *Camden 5/28/06 *DC 5/30/06
*VA Beach 6/17/08 *DC 6/22/08 *MSG 6/24/08 (backstage) *MSG 6/25/08
*EV DC 8/17/08 *EV Baltimore 6/15/09 *Philly 10/31/09
*Bristow VA 5/13/10 *MSG 5/20/10 *MSG 5/21/10
http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20034325,00.html
You really have no idea whether those girls you went to school with - or anyone else for that matter - really waited until they got married. Actually, one of the reasons some girls choose abortion over adoption is so everyone will still think they were virgins.
Even so, just because abstinence-only education may work for a few people doesn't mean it works on a population level. Abstinence itself is just like any other form of birth control - it must be used consistently in order to be effective. And - just like other forms of birth control - it's not used consistently. It's a lso not a good long-term method of contraception, since most everyone will have sex eventually.
As to the original post asking what chance the poor inner-city kids have (or something like that), I think that's a valid question considering that unintended pregnancy rates are higher among people who are poor or minorities.
No, I'm saying that breathing is still a legitimate standard and the fact that medical science allows you to pump shit into one's body does not mean that failing to do so is equivalent to killing something.
exactly.
and ALL of it makes me wonder, are people TRULY concerned with eradicating abortion, or in simply dictating other's sex lives due to their own morality. i look at the LACK of understanding about how BC 'works'....even amongst those who support it, probably use it....smart people....and then wonder why others with less access, perhaps education, coupled with religious/familial pressure.....don't utilize BC all the time, if at all. if we truly do want to make abortion #s go down, we would focus on ease of access to BC, education about BC, how it works, what it entails - especially so people will stop, incorrectly, assuming the morning after pill is some evil abortion method rather than a high-dose of BC pills as it is in actuality - remove stigmas against the use of BC and yea...perhaps we'd see a positive correlation in the #s of abortions dropping off. that is why more and more i think it is less and less about abortion and a helluva lot more about regulating sex. so much for seperation of church and state and land of the free...
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
caleb followill a virgin??????????? bwahahahahaha. i highly doubt that.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say