hey... you anti-huge corporation people who are freaking out

PissBottleMan

slightofjeff wrote:

Somebody said it earlier:

It seems like there are several people here who are more in love with the "image" of Pearl Jam than the "music" of Pearl Jam.

That's important that fact is reiterated. However, it's not entirely the fans fault for falling in love with that image. I hope some will, at the very least, concede that.

PBM

Jeanwah

PissBottleMan wrote:

Jeanwah wrote:

It's all a trade up, it just depends where your values are.

Maybe their values are reaching a broader audience and influencing others to make a difference.

And again, I can't believe I'm arguing against you because I get where you're coming from.

PBM

You and I weren't arguing...I thought. :?

PissBottleMan

Jeanwah wrote:

PissBottleMan wrote:

Jeanwah wrote:

It's all a trade up, it just depends where your values are.

Maybe their values are reaching a broader audience and influencing others to make a difference.

And again, I can't believe I'm arguing against you because I get where you're coming from.

PBM

You and I weren't arguing...I thought. :?

Sorry...wrong choice of words...discussing from opposite viewpoints...devil's advocate...if you will.

redrock

Jeanwah wrote:

It's not a luxury, it's defining your priorities. If expenses are difficult (and they are to a lot of people these days) you prioritize what you can live without. You've decided you don't want to live without cable or your daughter's music lessons. I've given up cable and we bought an old beater as a second car so we can keep our house but support local businesses, because I refuse to support businesses with sketchy business practices. It's all a trade up, it just depends where your values are.

You're saying my values are shit then? Do you have children? Do you have a healthy husband who can contribute to your family? My choices are based on the fact that I want my daughter to have a life as normal as possible. Your values seem to be different to mine. Sorry, but my daughter comes before people's perception of shops like Target.

dunkman

Jeanwah wrote:

redrock wrote:

NothingIsEverything. wrote:

i'm not saying people aren't in trouble... i'm just saying... there ARE people who could cancel their deluxe cable or eat out less, or any number of things... and use that cash to make ends meet in a socially-conscious way...

It's a choice. My family circumstances have changed in the past year and I now only have 35% of the money that I used to have coming in. I still have cable, my daughter still has her violin/piano/saxophone lessons, we still have the car (though at the moment it's just sitting outside therefore not using up gas!)... The reason I don't 'cancel' those? Because as long as I can keep a roof over the heads of my family and feed them a proper diet, I wish my daughter to not have to deal with a 'lack of money' on top of other things. I shop at a Target type shop. I got her uniform blouses at a similar place and not the local uniform shop because there it is twice the price...

I am quite militant (though you wouldn't be able to tell with these posts), but I am also very realistic..... No longer wide-eyed...

Being 'properly' socially aware (as you call it) is a luxury for many.

It's not a luxury, it's defining your priorities. If expenses are difficult (and they are to a lot of people these days) you prioritize what you can live without. You've decided you don't want to live without cable or your daughter's music lessons. I've given up cable and we bought an old beater as a second car so we can keep our house but support local businesses, because I refuse to support businesses with sketchy business practices. It's all a trade up, it just depends where your values are.

so altruism cost you money..

that old beater of a second car by the way... mucho polluto...

local businesses are sometimes more unscrupulous than a big corp... i live in a town of 30,000 people... we've had at least 5 immigration raids and fraud investigiations on the local restaurateurs... they employ people without the proper paperwork.. they steal credit card details... they have been closed down due to improper health practices.

oh and at least 11 taxi companies were investigated.. or at least their staff were.

my major supermarket stores have never been investigated..

dunkman

redrock wrote:

Jeanwah wrote:

It's not a luxury, it's defining your priorities. If expenses are difficult (and they are to a lot of people these days) you prioritize what you can live without. You've decided you don't want to live without cable or your daughter's music lessons. I've given up cable and we bought an old beater as a second car so we can keep our house but support local businesses, because I refuse to support businesses with sketchy business practices. It's all a trade up, it just depends where your values are.

You're saying my values are shit then? Do you have children? Do you have a healthy husband who can contribute to your family? My choices are based on the fact that I want my daughter to have a life as normal as possible. Your values seem to be different to mine. Sorry, but my daughter comes before people's perception of shops like Target.

damn fucking right it does... as it should

redrock

dunkman wrote:

i still donate to Save The Children... .

Jeanwah is going to shit on my values again, because I CANCELLED all my donations (several charities) so I can keep up my daughters lessons.....

What does that say about me now?

slightofjeff

PissBottleMan wrote:

slightofjeff wrote:

Somebody said it earlier:

It seems like there are several people here who are more in love with the "image" of Pearl Jam than the "music" of Pearl Jam.

That's important that fact is reiterated. However, it's not entirely the fans fault for falling in love with that image. I hope some will, at the very least, concede that.

PBM

I can sort of agree with that. It was an image that was sold pretty hard a decade ago, when that kind of approach to the business was probably more neccessary (and, frankly, viable) than it is today.

I just think we have to realize that as time passes, people generally become a little less militant about these sort of things. You can only bang your head against the Ticketmaster/MTV/anti-corporate wall for so long, before I'd think it would become too exhausting.

At some point, I think a band would just want to make music and play music and not be such a hard-ass about every little thing anymore. I think it's natural for most people, as we age, to start picking our battles a little bit more, instead of being anti-anti all the time.

dunkman

redrock wrote:

dunkman wrote:

i still donate to Save The Children... .

Jeanwah is going to shit on my values again, because I CANCELLED all my donations (several charities) so I can keep up my daughters lessons.....

What does that say about me now?

as i know your situation... i'd do the same.

my family is more important to me than anything

as is yours

redrock

dunkman wrote:

redrock wrote:

dunkman wrote:

i still donate to Save The Children... .

Jeanwah is going to shit on my values again, because I CANCELLED all my donations (several charities) so I can keep up my daughters lessons.....

What does that say about me now?

as i know your situation... i'd do the same.

my family is more important to me than anything

as is yours

And on these words, I am going to bed. 11pm here and I have to get up at 5.00am to go to work for a corporation so I can continue to make my CHOICES.

dunkman

redrock wrote:

dunkman wrote:

redrock wrote:

Jeanwah is going to shit on my values again, because I CANCELLED all my donations (several charities) so I can keep up my daughters lessons.....

What does that say about me now?

as i know your situation... i'd do the same.

my family is more important to me than anything

as is yours

And on these words, I am going to bed. 11pm here and I have to get up at 5.00am to go to work for a corporation so I can continue to make my CHOICES.

hey.. i work for the government... the biggest corporation there is... i dont have to get up at 5am... ergo i feel your pain.

U R A Crazy Breed

dunkman wrote:

hey.. i work for the government

so....that explains it.

PearlJain

PJBuckeye wrote:

U R A Crazy Breed wrote:

You have quite the amount of arrogance. I love how you lecture us on how we all are sheep. You tru;ly believe that you are smarter than everybody else. I will bah when I watch Billy Oh tonight.

JeanWah - did I spell it right?
I swore to myself to just READ - as I don't want involved. I still DON'T want involved (while I continue to insert myself into this tyraid) as people continue to argue over Pearl Jam's business decision-making skills. You appear to be an "idealist." Me, too. I've learned to just pick and choose my battles - the ones that affect me the most. Not to just argue for the sake of arguing. As long as I can enjoy Pearl Jam music, I'm happy. Pearl Jam still supports their time and money to so many causes. This speaks VOLUMES about them - therefore - their reputation and image remains untarnished as far as I'm concerned. If I could take on the world I would. It's simply just too big. I do what I can - when I can. I think we all need to learn to adapt, adjust as well as overcome so that we can function in society. Did I lecture just now? OMG - I've become my mother! Such is life.

Jeanwah

redrock wrote:

Jeanwah wrote:

It's not a luxury, it's defining your priorities. If expenses are difficult (and they are to a lot of people these days) you prioritize what you can live without. You've decided you don't want to live without cable or your daughter's music lessons. I've given up cable and we bought an old beater as a second car so we can keep our house but support local businesses, because I refuse to support businesses with sketchy business practices. It's all a trade up, it just depends where your values are.

You're saying my values are shit then? Do you have children? Do you have a healthy husband who can contribute to your family? My choices are based on the fact that I want my daughter to have a life as normal as possible. Your values seem to be different to mine. Sorry, but my daughter comes before people's perception of shops like Target.

Did I say anything about judging you? No. I have a daughter with special needs, a husband and I've been out of work for a few months, for your information. I want the same thing for my daughter, I just go about it differently, I have added challenges and I'm no better than anyone else. I don't have it easy, but I do live by my values. If there's a will, there's a way. To each their own.

Jeanwah

PearlJain wrote:

JeanWah - did I spell it right?
I swore to myself to just READ - as I don't want involved. I still DON'T want involved (while I continue to insert myself into this tyraid) as people continue to argue over Pearl Jam's business decision-making skills. You appear to be an "idealist." Me, too. I've learned to just pick and choose my battles - the ones that affect me the most. Not to just argue for the sake of arguing. As long as I can enjoy Pearl Jam music, I'm happy. Pearl Jam still supports their time and money to so many causes. This speaks VOLUMES about them - therefore - their reputation and image remains untarnished as far as I'm concerned. If I could take on the world I would. It's simply just too big. I do what I can - when I can. I think we all need to learn to adapt, adjust as well as overcome so that we can function in society. Did I lecture just now? OMG - I've become my mother! Such is life.

Mom, er, I mean, PearlJain.
I know being an idealist gets me into trouble with status quo minded folks. (I don't seem to mind) Deep down, I still love the music, I'll buy it. But I'll tell you. PJ inspired me. I do look up to them as idealists, and yeah, to see them sell out, pretty much sucks. Yes, they do still support their various causes, all fantastic. Just a bit disappointed that money appears to appeal to them just a bit more than it used to. That's all. It is my fault for looking up to them, but after all, they are just regular people like you and me. I'll still love them, just trying to prove my point, is all.

PearlJain

I don't think this is about Pearl Jam. Why do you need to prove anything to anybody? You believe what you believe. It's all good. If ya want - you can PM me. If not - take care.

Gary Carter

Cause she wants to be above us status quo people. Seriously what kinda bs is that. You're no different then any of us. Jenwah you bring up very good points but you come off very holier then thou when you say status quo people and people will lose respect for you. No I'm not patronizing you, if I wanted to do that I'd call you a dumbass for beleiving the crap pj says

PearlJain wrote:

I don't think this is about Pearl Jam. Why do you need to prove anything to anybody? You believe what you believe. It's all good. If ya want - you can PM me. If not - take care.

quelquefois

metsfan wrote:

Cause she wants to be above us status quo people. Seriously what kinda bs is that. You're no different then any of us. Jenwah you bring up very good points but you come off very holier then thou when you say status quo people and people will lose respect for you. No I'm not patronizing you, if I wanted to do that I'd call you a dumbass for beleiving the crap pj says

whoa... i know things are heated, but there isn't really any need to write posts just for the sake of attacking someone... obviously jeanwah doesn't need me to stand up for her, but calling her a dumbass just makes you look like a... well... something.

JordyWordy

Everybody be cool, mmkay? We all have obstacles & we all have parameters we set ourselves.

Like them or loathe them, remember, its only Target. No biggie. The beauty of this deal is you can buy the CD at independent stores if you want. Thats right - have your cake AND eat it too.

PearlJain

Many people (especially on this particular web- sight) have said some very harsh things about me -in the past -without even knowing very much about me. We all have something in common here that brings us together. Let's not flame people for their opposing points of view. OMG - I'm getting old. You "youngsters" are giving me a headache! Where's the Tylenol?