hey... you anti-huge corporation people who are freaking out

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  • slightofjeff
    slightofjeff Posts: 7,762
    NothingIsEverything. wrote:
    people are losing their jobs?

    i wonder if that has anything to do with the shady and predatory practices of big corporations? as for being stuck in a job that doesn't pay enough to live... Wal-Mart is MORE THAN HAPPY to help their employees fill out applications for social services such as food stamps, since they are well aware they don't pay a living wage.

    i'm not saying people aren't in trouble... i'm just saying... there ARE people who could cancel their deluxe cable or eat out less, or any number of things... and use that cash to make ends meet in a socially-conscious way...

    And I'm saying I understand that. I agree with you. But there are also tons of people who are out of work, and that has very little to do with the Wal-Mart boogeyman.

    The economic meltdown started in the housing sector, and last I checked, Wal-Mart was not in the business of giving out sketchy loans. Maybe that was in aisle 18.
    everybody wants the most they can possibly get
    for the least they could possibly do
  • redrock
    redrock Posts: 18,341
    NothingIsEverything. wrote:
    i'm not saying people aren't in trouble... i'm just saying... there ARE people who could cancel their deluxe cable or eat out less, or any number of things... and use that cash to make ends meet in a socially-conscious way...

    It's a choice. My family circumstances have changed in the past year and I now only have 35% of the money that I used to have coming in. I still have cable, my daughter still has her violin/piano/saxophone lessons, we still have the car (though at the moment it's just sitting outside therefore not using up gas!)... The reason I don't 'cancel' those? Because as long as I can keep a roof over the heads of my family and feed them a proper diet, I wish my daughter to not have to deal with a 'lack of money' on top of other things. I shop at a Target type shop. I got her uniform blouses at a similar place and not the local uniform shop because there it is twice the price...

    I am quite militant (though you wouldn't be able to tell with these posts), but I am also very realistic..... No longer wide-eyed...

    Being 'properly' socially aware (as you call it) is a luxury for many.
  • quelquefois
    quelquefois Posts: 209
    slightofjeff wrote:
    NothingIsEverything. wrote:
    people are losing their jobs?

    i wonder if that has anything to do with the shady and predatory practices of big corporations? as for being stuck in a job that doesn't pay enough to live... Wal-Mart is MORE THAN HAPPY to help their employees fill out applications for social services such as food stamps, since they are well aware they don't pay a living wage.

    i'm not saying people aren't in trouble... i'm just saying... there ARE people who could cancel their deluxe cable or eat out less, or any number of things... and use that cash to make ends meet in a socially-conscious way...

    And I'm saying I understand that. I agree with you. But there are also tons of people who are out of work, and that has very little to do with the Wal-Mart boogeyman.

    The economic meltdown started in the housing sector, and last I checked, Wal-Mart was not in the business of giving out sketchy loans. Maybe that was in aisle 18.

    it has to do with GREED in general... greed for things we can't afford... greed to make the most money possible off the backs of the cheapest laborers... greed to accumulate as much as possible for the cheapest price. i see it as all part of the same sickness... a sickness that Wal-Mart certainly contributed to in the collective consciousness. Convenient, then, that they also have the antidote, no?
  • Jeanwah
    Jeanwah Posts: 6,363
    PissBottleMan wrote:
    Jeanwah...I really want to be on your side here, but the fact of the matter is that this group has always been about turning a profit.

    They were on a major label, made videos for MTV, they were in Singles, appeared on VH1 Storytellers, etc.

    It's perception versus reality.

    I think we would like them to be like Fugazi and conduct a "do it yourself" attitude, but that's not the case. The difference is that they're deciding how they turn a profit now.

    Perception versus reality.

    PBM
    No, you're right, they wouldn't be in the business if it wasn't about making money. See their social causes. The list on their activism page, and we all know about their stance politically and socially. They did what they could to make a statement while also making money. And now they're going one step more to making more money by partnering with Target.
  • redrock
    redrock Posts: 18,341
    Jeanwah wrote:
    And now they're going one step more to making more money by partnering with Target.

    And giving more to their causes?
  • dunkman
    dunkman Posts: 19,646
    Jeanwah wrote:
    dunkman wrote:
    slightofjeff wrote:
    I think what he was referring to is that some people can't afford to shop anywhere but Wal-Mart. It's easy to pay more to shop at Mom and Pop when you have the means to do so.

    Some people don't have that option. They have to go to Wal-Mart because it is the only way to get sufficient food on the table, and they can't worry about whether Wal-Mart is a big, evil corporation that eats children.

    Jean Valjean stole bread to feed his family.
    I'm not sure that shopping at Wal-Mart is much worse.

    thats what i meant

    nice Les Miserables reference in there as well 8-)
    And you guys are telling me that you are one of these people? So you don't have the money to go to any EV or PJ shows in the near future then?
    I do understand those who can't afford it. But many people can.

    its about my choice... i go to a place called Tesco... they are so huge its reckoned 1 of every £7 spent in the Uk is spent at a Tesco store.... but Tesco are also one of the UK's biggest charitable contributors... millions upon millions is spent each year in giving schools FREE equipment.

    i can get everything i need there... i have a family of 4... their fresh veg and fruit is cheap.. i could drive into town... pay for parking... and go to 3 different butchers/grocers/newsagents/etc...

    i WANT the convenience... i want to save money so i CAN go to shows, take my kids to the cinema... buy music.

    i could go to a tiny corner shop and spend my hard earned money on his socially aware pasta... but ichoose not to... why? because i know the owner of the Italian deli just up the road from me and they live in a beautiful big house, drive a Merc and he plans to send his kids to private school.

    the manager of my local tesco earns a good wage and his kids go to the same school as my kids... he drives a Ford and goes one holiday per year... he's much more socially aware.
    oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
  • slightofjeff
    slightofjeff Posts: 7,762
    NothingIsEverything. wrote:
    slightofjeff wrote:
    NothingIsEverything. wrote:
    people are losing their jobs?

    i wonder if that has anything to do with the shady and predatory practices of big corporations? as for being stuck in a job that doesn't pay enough to live... Wal-Mart is MORE THAN HAPPY to help their employees fill out applications for social services such as food stamps, since they are well aware they don't pay a living wage.

    i'm not saying people aren't in trouble... i'm just saying... there ARE people who could cancel their deluxe cable or eat out less, or any number of things... and use that cash to make ends meet in a socially-conscious way...

    And I'm saying I understand that. I agree with you. But there are also tons of people who are out of work, and that has very little to do with the Wal-Mart boogeyman.

    The economic meltdown started in the housing sector, and last I checked, Wal-Mart was not in the business of giving out sketchy loans. Maybe that was in aisle 18.

    it has to do with GREED in general... greed for things we can't afford... greed to make the most money possible off the backs of the cheapest laborers... greed to accumulate as much as possible for the cheapest price. i see it as all part of the same sickness... a sickness that Wal-Mart certainly contributed to in the collective consciousness. Convenient, then, that they also have the antidote, no?

    Yes, yes. It's all Wal-Mart's fault. It says here on Page 43 of my "Militant Liberal Handbook."
    everybody wants the most they can possibly get
    for the least they could possibly do
  • slightofjeff
    slightofjeff Posts: 7,762
    redrock wrote:
    Jeanwah wrote:
    And now they're going one step more to making more money by partnering with Target.

    And giving more to their causes?

    I'd be willing to bet my next Exxon dividend check that Pearl Jam is making less money under Target than they were under Sony.
    everybody wants the most they can possibly get
    for the least they could possibly do
  • quelquefois
    quelquefois Posts: 209
    redrock wrote:
    NothingIsEverything. wrote:
    i'm not saying people aren't in trouble... i'm just saying... there ARE people who could cancel their deluxe cable or eat out less, or any number of things... and use that cash to make ends meet in a socially-conscious way...

    It's a choice. My family circumstances have changed in the past year and I now only have 35% of the money that I used to have coming in. I still have cable, my daughter still has her violin/piano/saxophone lessons, we still have the car (though at the moment it's just sitting outside therefore not using up gas!)... The reason I don't 'cancel' those? Because as long as I can keep a roof over the heads of my family and feed them a proper diet, I wish my daughter to not have to deal with a 'lack of money' on top of other things. I shop at a Target type shop. I got her uniform blouses at a similar place and not the local uniform shop because there it is twice the price...

    I am quite militant (though you wouldn't be able to tell with these posts), but I am also very realistic..... No longer wide-eyed...

    Being 'properly' socially aware (as you call it) is a luxury for many.

    No, i totally respect that... and i said in another post that i recognize my point of view is a privileged one... i didn't mean to imply that i was somehow more "properly" socially aware... i really didn't! i am just saying that we should do what we can when we are able to do it, and not forget that our choices are political ones... i don't think we should make our families suffer in the name of good conscience...
  • PissBottleMan
    PissBottleMan Union City, TN Posts: 4,155
    Jeanwah wrote:
    And now they're going one step more to making more money by partnering with Target.

    And this surprises you? I understand your mindset, but this band was never a starving-artist independent group. We may have bought into that idea, but they were doing what they had to do to get by. Now, they're taking it one step further...and, hopefully, making change as they go along.

    PBM
    "We paced ourselves and we didn't rush through it and we tried to be as creative as our collective minds would let us be over some course of time instead of just trying to rush through a record"

    Wishlist Foundation: http://wishlistfoundation.org
  • quelquefois
    quelquefois Posts: 209
    slightofjeff wrote:
    NothingIsEverything. wrote:

    it has to do with GREED in general... greed for things we can't afford... greed to make the most money possible off the backs of the cheapest laborers... greed to accumulate as much as possible for the cheapest price. i see it as all part of the same sickness... a sickness that Wal-Mart certainly contributed to in the collective consciousness. Convenient, then, that they also have the antidote, no?

    Yes, yes. It's all Wal-Mart's fault. It says here on Page 43 of my "Militant Liberal Handbook."

    that's not at all what i said, but i appreciate your stunning rhetorical skills.
  • slightofjeff
    slightofjeff Posts: 7,762
    NothingIsEverything. wrote:
    slightofjeff wrote:
    NothingIsEverything. wrote:

    it has to do with GREED in general... greed for things we can't afford... greed to make the most money possible off the backs of the cheapest laborers... greed to accumulate as much as possible for the cheapest price. i see it as all part of the same sickness... a sickness that Wal-Mart certainly contributed to in the collective consciousness. Convenient, then, that they also have the antidote, no?

    Yes, yes. It's all Wal-Mart's fault. It says here on Page 43 of my "Militant Liberal Handbook."

    that's not at all what i said, but i appreciate your stunning rhetorical skills.

    Why thank you. I studied at Cambridge.
    everybody wants the most they can possibly get
    for the least they could possibly do
  • Jeanwah
    Jeanwah Posts: 6,363
    edited June 2009
    redrock wrote:
    NothingIsEverything. wrote:
    i'm not saying people aren't in trouble... i'm just saying... there ARE people who could cancel their deluxe cable or eat out less, or any number of things... and use that cash to make ends meet in a socially-conscious way...

    It's a choice. My family circumstances have changed in the past year and I now only have 35% of the money that I used to have coming in. I still have cable, my daughter still has her violin/piano/saxophone lessons, we still have the car (though at the moment it's just sitting outside therefore not using up gas!)... The reason I don't 'cancel' those? Because as long as I can keep a roof over the heads of my family and feed them a proper diet, I wish my daughter to not have to deal with a 'lack of money' on top of other things. I shop at a Target type shop. I got her uniform blouses at a similar place and not the local uniform shop because there it is twice the price...

    I am quite militant (though you wouldn't be able to tell with these posts), but I am also very realistic..... No longer wide-eyed...

    Being 'properly' socially aware (as you call it) is a luxury for many.
    It's not a luxury, it's defining your priorities. If expenses are difficult (and they are to a lot of people these days) you prioritize what you can live without. You've decided you don't want to live without cable or your daughter's music lessons. I've given up cable and we bought an old beater as a second car so we can keep our house but support local businesses, because I refuse to support businesses with sketchy business practices. It's all a trade up, it just depends where your values are.
    Post edited by Jeanwah on
  • cindbri
    cindbri Posts: 89
    slightofjeff wrote:
    redrock wrote:
    Jeanwah wrote:
    And now they're going one step more to making more money by partnering with Target.

    And giving more to their causes?

    I'd be willing to bet my next Exxon dividend check that Pearl Jam is making less money under Target than they were under Sony.


    ...i've been enjoying this string all afternoon. That one actually prompted me to login, that's fucking funny. :lol: NIce points all the way btw slightofjeff.
  • slightofjeff
    slightofjeff Posts: 7,762
    PissBottleMan wrote:
    Jeanwah wrote:
    And now they're going one step more to making more money by partnering with Target.

    And this surprises you? I understand your mindset, but this band was never a starving-artist independent group. We may have bought into that idea, but they were doing what they had to do to get by. Now, they're taking it one step further...and, hopefully, making change as they go along.

    PBM

    Somebody said it earlier:

    It seems like there are several people here who are more in love with the "image" of Pearl Jam than the "music" of Pearl Jam.
    everybody wants the most they can possibly get
    for the least they could possibly do
  • PissBottleMan
    PissBottleMan Union City, TN Posts: 4,155
    Jeanwah wrote:
    It's all a trade up, it just depends where your values are.

    Maybe their values are reaching a broader audience and influencing others to make a difference.

    And again, I can't believe I'm arguing against you because I get where you're coming from.

    PBM
    "We paced ourselves and we didn't rush through it and we tried to be as creative as our collective minds would let us be over some course of time instead of just trying to rush through a record"

    Wishlist Foundation: http://wishlistfoundation.org
  • dunkman
    dunkman Posts: 19,646
    redrock wrote:
    NothingIsEverything. wrote:
    i'm not saying people aren't in trouble... i'm just saying... there ARE people who could cancel their deluxe cable or eat out less, or any number of things... and use that cash to make ends meet in a socially-conscious way...

    It's a choice. My family circumstances have changed in the past year and I now only have 35% of the money that I used to have coming in. I still have cable, my daughter still has her violin/piano/saxophone lessons, we still have the car (though at the moment it's just sitting outside therefore not using up gas!)... The reason I don't 'cancel' those? Because as long as I can keep a roof over the heads of my family and feed them a proper diet, I wish my daughter to not have to deal with a 'lack of money' on top of other things. I shop at a Target type shop. I got her uniform blouses at a similar place and not the local uniform shop because there it is twice the price...

    I am quite militant (though you wouldn't be able to tell with these posts), but I am also very realistic..... No longer wide-eyed...

    Being 'properly' socially aware (as you call it) is a luxury for many.

    exactly Red... if money became tight in my house i could choose to cancel my satelitte subscription/magazine subscriptions/my daughters karate classes/swimming lessons/school trips to Roman forts/Brownies/internet/etc etc etc..

    i choose to keep those luxuries as they enhance mine... and most importantly.. my daughters life experiences... thats why i buy my kids Tesco's own brand cereal at £1 a box instead of sourcing hand-rolled oatmeal from Guatemala at £5 a pound...

    i still donate to Save The Children... my wife raises thousands for Kids Charities and i mean thousands!... we even bought a smaller car... we recycle... we do WHAT WE CAN... but i'll be fucked if i have to drive 47 miles to another town just to buy the new Pearl Jam cd from an indie retailer... fuck that.
    oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
  • slightofjeff
    slightofjeff Posts: 7,762
    cindbri wrote:
    ...i've been enjoying this string all afternoon. That one actually prompted me to login, that's fucking funny. :lol: NIce points all the way btw slightofjeff.

    I got some if you need it.




    :):):):)


    That one was for you d2d.
    everybody wants the most they can possibly get
    for the least they could possibly do
  • redrock
    redrock Posts: 18,341
    NothingIsEverything. wrote:
    i am just saying that we should do what we can when we are able to do it, and not forget that our choices are political ones... .

    There are many ways to 'influence' or be aware. My daughter was writing to the prime minister when she was four... she started early. Not accepting 'evolution' is being blind. I'm not saying put your arms down regarding big corporations... don't get me started on globalisation - one needs to work with what there is.
  • Jeanwah
    Jeanwah Posts: 6,363
    slightofjeff wrote:
    PissBottleMan wrote:
    Jeanwah wrote:
    And now they're going one step more to making more money by partnering with Target.

    And this surprises you? I understand your mindset, but this band was never a starving-artist independent group. We may have bought into that idea, but they were doing what they had to do to get by. Now, they're taking it one step further...and, hopefully, making change as they go along.

    PBM

    Somebody said it earlier:

    It seems like there are several people here who are more in love with the "image" of Pearl Jam than the "music" of Pearl Jam.
    And someone corrected you that it has to do with integrity and not image.

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