- Group 1 leaves show early to start new line after night 1 - Group 1 is told to move to another area by security and are going to allow them to stay there until it is time to walk them up to the official line at 8:00am - Group 1 may or may not have used a list and may or may not have been in line the whole time - Group 2 comes in 24 hours later on Sunday night and claims the 8:00am spot that security told group 1 they were not allowed to be at - There is no security to tell group 2 that they are not allowed to be there. - Group 1 tells group 2 about the other line already started and about security moving them - Group 2 does not care about the other line and keeps their spot - Some of Group 1 acts like a bunch of idiots bullying and posting on social media. - Rain comes pouring down and both groups get a much needed wash
Oh you hung out on the sidewalk by murphy’s The last two days? That’s odd.
When I saw someone post that they left during YLB on night one to get in line for night two, I thought I misread it because imy brain couldn’t process that anyone would wait two full days. Insane.
- Night 1 ends and an unofficial line forms. Security moves them to a location that they are allowed to form the line and wait to be moved until 8:00am
- You guys show up, know that there is an unofficial line that was made long before you got there and you still push to get ahead of it knowing they camped out right after the show.
- Security comes, does not give a shit and moves on
I have a couple of questions. If you knew that people were there way before you, 8:00am lineup time or not, why did you feel the need to get ahead of them? I would never have done that myself official line or not. I am not defending them just find it ballsy to try and slip in like that. Yes 8:00am is the designated time but these people were moved to a section by security and told to wait there until they would all be moved to the official location. In the meantime you guys come in not waiting nearly as much as the others and take the front spot. I can understand how the other group would not be overjoyed by this but them using the list and confrontational attitude is ridiculous. I am not sure what 10 club thought would happen with the 8:00am but it seemed like they were ok with the unofficial line. Posting vids and pics on social media over this was unnecessary as well by them. To have your faces smeared on a page of over 60,000 people was not fair to you or your group. Fuck them for doing that.
Are you talking to ascahn? And if you are, how are you completely misreading what he wrote?
The first show, the Aussies were at the front of the line. The SECOND SHOW, ascahn and his buddies apparently showed up and started the line where the Aussies started it for the 1st show but this was BEFORE the Aussies showed up. So when the Aussies showed up and found someone had started the line before them, that is when all the chaos and - from what ascahn said - shockingly awful and verging on abusive behavior began and apparently continued through going into the venue the 1st time.
Where are you getting that the SECOND time, ascahn and his friends cut in front of the Aussies? How did you read ascahn's very detailed account and get your version out of it?
Hopefully you're not indicating that just because a group of fans started a line one way on one night, when they weren't there to start it the 2nd night somehow they still had a right to be in front because they started it early at the previous show? Because if that's what you're saying... that is all kinds of bizarre and wrong. And absurdly unfair.
- Night 1 ends and an unofficial line forms. Security moves them to a location that they are allowed to form the line and wait to be moved until 8:00am
- You guys show up, know that there is an unofficial line that was made long before you got there and you still push to get ahead of it knowing they camped out right after the show.
- Security comes, does not give a shit and moves on
I have a couple of questions. If you knew that people were there way before you, 8:00am lineup time or not, why did you feel the need to get ahead of them? I would never have done that myself official line or not. I am not defending them just find it ballsy to try and slip in like that. Yes 8:00am is the designated time but these people were moved to a section by security and told to wait there until they would all be moved to the official location. In the meantime you guys come in not waiting nearly as much as the others and take the front spot. I can understand how the other group would not be overjoyed by this but them using the list and confrontational attitude is ridiculous. I am not sure what 10 club thought would happen with the 8:00am but it seemed like they were ok with the unofficial line. Posting vids and pics on social media over this was unnecessary as well by them. To have your faces smeared on a page of over 60,000 people was not fair to you or your group. Fuck them for doing that.
IMO, the second that group created a list, they lost their right to that spot in their illegitimate line, as per 10C rules. Technically, all of them should have been sent to the back of the line.
Agree 100% @iwasthere did the list actually happen? Also the line may have been illegitimate but security made it legitimate imo when they moved it to an ok location and told them they would comeback to move them before 8:00am
I was 6th in line and was in middle of all of it. That's how it happened. I think ascahn has a right to be upset with many of the large group at 4am. But their group was 9 hours early showing up 11pm to participate in the unofficial line too. There was less than 20 at that time. We told them what was up. They should have been behind that group. They just didnt have anyone come tell them to move from that spot and we had been that morning.
So let me see if I understand this: When ascahn and his friends showed up and sat down, there was NO ONE sitting in front of them. You're saying there were others around, but who'd been told to move, so they were elsewhere, across the street? But not where ascahn sat.
Is that what you're saying? And if everyone was breaking the rules, why should ascahn have to get up and give up their seats to others who were around but not seated, regardless of why they weren't seated? At some point doesn't this whole Lord of the Flies scene amount to whoever is lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time "starts the line"?
Again, I don't even do GA, but the politics and psychology and rationales of all this is very interesting. And a bit troubling.
Why would I honor a line that starts before 8am if the official line up is not allowed until 8am? I can’t help what people chose to do and where with their time before 8am.
Oh you hung out on the sidewalk by murphy’s The last two days? That’s odd.
That’s the issue. The 8:00 am line isn’t official, that’s an external rule from the venue. What’s official is the informal line that starts however many days prior. If someone’s sleeping on the sidewalk for two days, hell yes they should have the rail.
Wouldn't the "official" line be whichever one is considered legitimate by the actual venue? External rules from the venue automatically supercede all else right?
Which is where the tension comes into play. What is “official”? To me, it would be fan determined because I think we should be able to regulate ourselves and I value rewarding those who put in the commitment. It’s kind of like in ye old days when people would camp out to buy tickets. Just because a venue doesn’t want the hassle of campers out front doesn’t determine norms around who has priority. I say we just view it as the line started away at a certain distance from the door. I think we can handle that.
The issue with fan determined is - what fans determine it? And what if other fans disagree?
That is why to me anything that isn't venue or 10C specified should be thrown out and not considered legitimate. As we have seen by the number queue debacle, letting fans who camp out make the "rules" of GA lines do not have a peaceful easygoing, agreed upon result. To me the last thing we should consider legitimate is fan-made rules over those of the venue.
Fans, no matter who got there first, do not have any authority over other fans. That is why venue rules and 10C supercede it, in order for all of this to work in the first place there needs to be order that does not come from the people in line. Fans are not the people to tell fans what to do in line, that is up to the venue and 10C
Good question about creating rules and who polices the rules. I’m coming at it from the angle of historical norms over time and also the fact that in GA, we’re policing ourselves by and large. If you’re in a mob of several thousand people, security is largly irrelevant (except on the edges). The group manages itself without outside intervention (unless Ed sees you being an aggressive ay hole!) I feel that this should carry over into rules and norms prior to the show. I don’t think I’m being weird. It’s pretty easy: people camped out, so they’re in the front of the line. I’m walking to the ga line at 4:50, I find the end of the line and get in it. We have cultural norms about cueing already, so I don’t I’m too far from that.
The 10c chiming in on numbered lists is fine, but I think that was largely determined to be bullshit already. Again, the 8:00 am line up rule is set by an outisde authority, why should that take precedent over the group established rule of whoever gets there first is first in line?
- Night 1 ends and an unofficial line forms. Security moves them to a location that they are allowed to form the line and wait to be moved until 8:00am
- You guys show up, know that there is an unofficial line that was made long before you got there and you still push to get ahead of it knowing they camped out right after the show.
- Security comes, does not give a shit and moves on
I have a couple of questions. If you knew that people were there way before you, 8:00am lineup time or not, why did you feel the need to get ahead of them? I would never have done that myself official line or not. I am not defending them just find it ballsy to try and slip in like that. Yes 8:00am is the designated time but these people were moved to a section by security and told to wait there until they would all be moved to the official location. In the meantime you guys come in not waiting nearly as much as the others and take the front spot. I can understand how the other group would not be overjoyed by this but them using the list and confrontational attitude is ridiculous. I am not sure what 10 club thought would happen with the 8:00am but it seemed like they were ok with the unofficial line. Posting vids and pics on social media over this was unnecessary as well by them. To have your faces smeared on a page of over 60,000 people was not fair to you or your group. Fuck them for doing that.
IMO, the second that group created a list, they lost their right to that spot in their illegitimate line, as per 10C rules. Technically, all of them should have been sent to the back of the line.
Agree 100% @iwasthere did the list actually happen? Also the line may have been illegitimate but security made it legitimate imo when they moved it to an ok location and told them they would comeback to move them before 8:00am
I was 6th in line and was in middle of all of it. That's how it happened. I think ascahn has a right to be upset with many of the large group at 4am. But their group was 9 hours early showing up 11pm to participate in the unofficial line too. There was less than 20 at that time. We told them what was up. They should have been behind that group. They just didnt have anyone come tell them to move from that spot and we had been that morning.
So let me see if I understand this: When ascahn and his friends showed up and sat down, there was NO ONE sitting in front of them. You're saying there were others around, but who'd been told to move, so they were elsewhere, across the street? But not where ascahn sat.
Is that what you're saying? And if everyone was breaking the rules, why should ascahn have to get up and give up their seats to others who were around but not seated, regardless of why they weren't seated? At some point doesn't this whole Lord of the Flies scene amount to whoever is lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time "starts the line"?
Again, I don't even do GA, but the politics and psychology and rationales of all this is very interesting. And a bit troubling.
No need to get all worked up. Security told the other group to move so they went to a spot they were allowed to be. Ascahn group came in and went to the same spot the first group was told to move and stayed there knowing the other group was told to move and that there was another group already there. Choose sides pick a team do whatever you want to do. We all knew an 8:00am starting time for the line was going to cause problems. This is one of them and luckily it did not end in any violence.
Again, the 8:00 am line up rule is set by an outisde authority, why should that take precedent over the group established rule of whoever gets there first is first in line?
I guess for me, personally all in all I don't see venue rules and policy as "outside authority", I see it as THE authority, so to speak. And if their line and whoever gets there first is the only line they consider official, the people who get to that line first, in this case ascahn, their place in line is (IMO) as legitimate as anything else
During the rain delay, there was a bald headed bearded man wearing shorts and black boots that got funneled to where I was at. He was a pretty good size guy (plenty bigger than me at 6' 215lbs). He was a rail rat and up pretty close initially (within 3 rows). He made it a point of yelling around during the delay on where he was and how he WILL be back there after it is over. Included by:
•pointing to 5-7 people around him saying they were up there with him and would be back up there with him. They could vouch for one another. Creating a mob mentality.
•threatening physical harm - "I'll beat the shit out of people that try to stop us"
•using his size and accomplishing his task. About 2-3 back front center.
This behavior is inexcusable, barbaric and bullyish. Unfortunately, it wasn't worth a trip to the hospital for me. He is the kind of person I love to hate. Yes, hate. It does not good not just for a concert, but for society as a whole to have people acting this way.
"A smart monkey doesn't monkey around with another monkey's monkey" - Darwin's Theory
So we could say the outside authority creating the 8:00 rule created the initial problem. If you let people camp right at the entry, then this would’ve been avoided, no?
Again, the 8:00 am line up rule is set by an outisde authority, why should that take precedent over the group established rule of whoever gets there first is first in line?
I guess for me, personally all in all I don't see venue rules and policy as "outside authority", I see it as THE authority, so to speak. And if their line and whoever gets there first is the only line they consider official, the people who get to that line first, in this case ascahn, their place in line is (IMO) as legitimate as anything else
I have no clue why I am still talking about this but they were not the first in that line. The first in that line was moved by THE authority to another designated spot. 24 hours later his group claims that spot that was not allowed by group #1 but no security is there to move them. Are they lucky to get it and no authority is moving them or are they dicks for knowing others were in that spot but got moved. This is a question that will haunt us for years to come.
During the rain delay, there was a bald headed bearded man wearing shorts and black boots that got funneled to where I was at. He was a pretty good size guy (plenty bigger than me at 6' 215lbs). He was a rail rat and up pretty close initially (within 3 rows). He made it a point of yelling around during the delay on where he was and how he WILL be back there after it is over. Included by:
•pointing to 5-7 people around him saying they were up there with him and would be back up there with him. They could vouch for one another. Creating a mob mentality.
•threatening physical harm - "I'll beat the shit out of people that try to stop us"
•using his size and accomplishing his task. About 2-3 back front center.
This behavior is inexcusable, barbaric and bullyish. Unfortunately, it wasn't worth a trip to the hospital for me. He is the kind of person I love to hate. Yes, hate. It does not good not just for a concert, but for society as a whole to have people acting this way.
Why would I honor a line that starts before 8am if the official line up is not allowed until 8am? I can’t help what people chose to do and where with their time before 8am.
Oh you hung out on the sidewalk by murphy’s The last two days? That’s odd.
That’s the issue. The 8:00 am line isn’t official, that’s an external rule from the venue. What’s official is the informal line that starts however many days prior. If someone’s sleeping on the sidewalk for two days, hell yes they should have the rail.
Wouldn't the "official" line be whichever one is considered legitimate by the actual venue? External rules from the venue automatically supercede all else right?
Which is where the tension comes into play. What is “official”? To me, it would be fan determined because I think we should be able to regulate ourselves and I value rewarding those who put in the commitment. It’s kind of like in ye old days when people would camp out to buy tickets. Just because a venue doesn’t want the hassle of campers out front doesn’t determine norms around who has priority. I say we just view it as the line started away at a certain distance from the door. I think we can handle that.
The issue with fan determined is - what fans determine it? And what if other fans disagree?
That is why to me anything that isn't venue or 10C specified should be thrown out and not considered legitimate. As we have seen by the number queue debacle, letting fans who camp out make the "rules" of GA lines do not have a peaceful easygoing, agreed upon result. To me the last thing we should consider legitimate is fan-made rules over those of the venue.
Fans, no matter who got there first, do not have any authority over other fans. That is why venue rules and 10C supercede it, in order for all of this to work in the first place there needs to be order that does not come from the people in line. Fans are not the people to tell fans what to do in line, that is up to the venue and 10C
Good question about creating rules and who polices the rules. I’m coming at it from the angle of historical norms over time and also the fact that in GA, we’re policing ourselves by and large. If you’re in a mob of several thousand people, security is largly irrelevant (except on the edges). The group manages itself without outside intervention (unless Ed sees you being an aggressive ay hole!) I feel that this should carry over into rules and norms prior to the show. I don’t think I’m being weird. It’s pretty easy: people camped out, so they’re in the front of the line. I’m walking to the ga line at 4:50, I find the end of the line and get in it. We have cultural norms about cueing already, so I don’t I’m too far from that.
The 10c chiming in on numbered lists is fine, but I think that was largely determined to be bullshit already. Again, the 8:00 am line up rule is set by an outisde authority, why should that take precedent over the group established rule of whoever gets there first is first in line?
I hope communication between venues and Ten Club can be stronger in effort to enforce and eliminate the unauthorized lines, garbage numbering system, and all the other negativity that comes with the GA line.
i have witnessed some performances. i have soaked up a lot of memories.
Again, the 8:00 am line up rule is set by an outisde authority, why should that take precedent over the group established rule of whoever gets there first is first in line?
I guess for me, personally all in all I don't see venue rules and policy as "outside authority", I see it as THE authority, so to speak. And if their line and whoever gets there first is the only line they consider official, the people who get to that line first, in this case ascahn, their place in line is (IMO) as legitimate as anything else
I have no clue why I am still talking about this but they were not the first in that line. The first in that line was moved by THE authority to another designated spot. 24 hours later his group claims that spot that was not allowed by group #1 but no security is there to move them. Are they lucky to get it and no authority is moving them or are they dicks for knowing others were in that spot but got moved. This is a question that will haunt us for years to come.
Side question is @PJNB Jeff, with the rain delay were you able to get on your original flight? We were delayed the next day by a few hours. Talked to a few people who said tons of flights were canceled the night of the show.
Again, the 8:00 am line up rule is set by an outisde authority, why should that take precedent over the group established rule of whoever gets there first is first in line?
I guess for me, personally all in all I don't see venue rules and policy as "outside authority", I see it as THE authority, so to speak. And if their line and whoever gets there first is the only line they consider official, the people who get to that line first, in this case ascahn, their place in line is (IMO) as legitimate as anything else
I have no clue why I am still talking about this but they were not the first in that line. The first in that line was moved by THE authority to another designated spot. 24 hours later his group claims that spot that was not allowed by group #1 but no security is there to move them. Are they lucky to get it and no authority is moving them or are they dicks for knowing others were in that spot but got moved. This is a question that will haunt us for years to come.
Did the venue specifically tell them "hey you guys are the first in line but we are moving you here" or did they go "we are moving you guys here because there technically is no line until 8am, but you guys are welcome to camp out over here for the chance to be first when the line starts"?
To me, based on the information given, the line did not start until 8am, and whoever physically is first in that 8am line when 8am starts, is first in line, right?
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buck502000
Birthplace of GIBSON guitar Posts: 8,951
Again, the 8:00 am line up rule is set by an outisde authority, why should that take precedent over the group established rule of whoever gets there first is first in line?
I guess for me, personally all in all I don't see venue rules and policy as "outside authority", I see it as THE authority, so to speak. And if their line and whoever gets there first is the only line they consider official, the people who get to that line first, in this case ascahn, their place in line is (IMO) as legitimate as anything else
I have no clue why I am still talking about this but they were not the first in that line. The first in that line was moved by THE authority to another designated spot. 24 hours later his group claims that spot that was not allowed by group #1 but no security is there to move them. Are they lucky to get it and no authority is moving them or are they dicks for knowing others were in that spot but got moved. This is a question that will haunt us for years to come.
Did the venue specifically tell them "hey you guys are the first in line but we are moving you here" or did they go "we are moving you guys here because there technically is no line until 8am, but you guys are welcome to camp out over here for the chance to be first when the line starts"?
To me, based on the information given, the line did not start until 8am, and whoever physically is first in that 8am line when 8am starts, is first in line.
I agree with that actually. If security did not kick them out then all the power to them. I on the other hand would never have done that myself knowing there was another line that started 24 hours before me. To each their own I guess.
- Night 1 ends and an unofficial line forms. Security moves them to a location that they are allowed to form the line and wait to be moved until 8:00am
- You guys show up, know that there is an unofficial line that was made long before you got there and you still push to get ahead of it knowing they camped out right after the show.
- Security comes, does not give a shit and moves on
I have a couple of questions. If you knew that people were there way before you, 8:00am lineup time or not, why did you feel the need to get ahead of them? I would never have done that myself official line or not. I am not defending them just find it ballsy to try and slip in like that. Yes 8:00am is the designated time but these people were moved to a section by security and told to wait there until they would all be moved to the official location. In the meantime you guys come in not waiting nearly as much as the others and take the front spot. I can understand how the other group would not be overjoyed by this but them using the list and confrontational attitude is ridiculous. I am not sure what 10 club thought would happen with the 8:00am but it seemed like they were ok with the unofficial line. Posting vids and pics on social media over this was unnecessary as well by them. To have your faces smeared on a page of over 60,000 people was not fair to you or your group. Fuck them for doing that.
IMO, the second that group created a list, they lost their right to that spot in their illegitimate line, as per 10C rules. Technically, all of them should have been sent to the back of the line.
Agree 100% @iwasthere did the list actually happen? Also the line may have been illegitimate but security made it legitimate imo when they moved it to an ok location and told them they would comeback to move them before 8:00am
I was 6th in line and was in middle of all of it. That's how it happened. I think ascahn has a right to be upset with many of the large group at 4am. But their group was 9 hours early showing up 11pm to participate in the unofficial line too. There was less than 20 at that time. We told them what was up. They should have been behind that group. They just didnt have anyone come tell them to move from that spot and we had been that morning.
So let me see if I understand this: When ascahn and his friends showed up and sat down, there was NO ONE sitting in front of them. You're saying there were others around, but who'd been told to move, so they were elsewhere, across the street? But not where ascahn sat.
Is that what you're saying? And if everyone was breaking the rules, why should ascahn have to get up and give up their seats to others who were around but not seated, regardless of why they weren't seated? At some point doesn't this whole Lord of the Flies scene amount to whoever is lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time "starts the line"?
Again, I don't even do GA, but the politics and psychology and rationales of all this is very interesting. And a bit troubling.
No need to get all worked up. Security told the other group to move so they went to a spot they were allowed to be. Ascahn group came in and went to the same spot the first group was told to move and stayed there knowing the other group was told to move and that there was another group already there. Choose sides pick a team do whatever you want to do. We all knew an 8:00am starting time for the line was going to cause problems. This is one of them and luckily it did not end in any violence.
As someone too short to even put in lottery requests for GA tix, trust me, I'm not worked up! But I am fascinated and fairly shocked by the Lord of the Flies / "The rules that benefit me are the ones we'll go by" way this whole thing sounds like it unfolded.
The idea that one group breaking the rules and then told to move is super offended and feels very wronged when a 2nd group comes up, sits where they'd seen the line start the night before, security doesn't move them, and they feel they have a right to be there, it's kind of stunning that the group that was asked to move is THAT CERTAIN that they had the right and that this group who - by all your accounts - did NOT actually cut in front of anyone but sat down where no one else was sitting at the time they arrived and sat down to start waiting, that so many feel this was unfair and wrong.
The main "he said/she said" part seems to be whether and where the "Group 1" folks were when "Group 2" (who ended up in front of the line and abused by the big Group 3) where Group 1 was when Group 2 arrived. But you all seem to agree/acknowledge that when Group 2 sat down where they did, no one else was there, hence, no "cutting the line" because in that moment, they were the front of the line. Their luck in not being moved by security and staying in those spots seems like as good a reason as any to consider that the start of the line, because who can really say who is in front if the alleged Group 1 were milling around elsewhere across the street? And to be clear, I don't know ANY of you. I don't have a stake in this, just going by all that I've read.
Anyway, this is my last post on this. Talk about First World Problems indeed... I'm sure homeless people in every one of these show cities are like "Wow, what we'd do to swap problems with you guys!"
Ever hear the phrase "Live by the sword, die by the sword"? It means that if you follow a set of rules or break a set of rules, you can't get all twisted when others break the same rules and you don't like the outcome. You also can't be selective about who the rules or non-rules do and don't apply to.
As for those that lined up prior to 8am for either show, the 10C could have very easily monitored who arrived 1st at 8am. Then let a line build to around noon. At this point, told everyone in front of the first arriving person from 8am that they are being moved to the rear of the current 12 o'clock line. Behind the people who followed instructions and lined up when the were supposed.
Yes, this may sound extreme to some, but a line must be drawn and an example set. Should such a thing occur, what grounds would these rail rats have a valid argument? They wouldn't.
Yet, I understand such a thing will not occur. Thus, my belief that they (the band) enjoy the heck out of the rail rats and allow this to happen. And shower them with camera times in a DVD. Hand them Rizzo jerseys, etc...
All aside, I'll still go to the shows...we all will. And the band knows that. So, why really change anything?
"A smart monkey doesn't monkey around with another monkey's monkey" - Darwin's Theory
There is no line before 8am. Leaving N1 mid-last song to get in line for N2!?!?! No sleep/showering for two days! Stuck scrambling between approved standing locations, a list/no list, for like 48 hours. Rail riders, Aussie mafia, Even Bros, this made me doubly glad I didn’t have GA in the first place. #notforthefaintofheart. #PJcult. #2eachtheirown I enjoyed the world class offerings of Chicago between shows and hung with the guy who introduced me to PJ in the first place as well as was with me on my first and now last (currently speaking) shows with another along the way. #reservedalltheway. #choices. #goodbefore&afterthedelay. #nostress
Again, the 8:00 am line up rule is set by an outisde authority, why should that take precedent over the group established rule of whoever gets there first is first in line?
I guess for me, personally all in all I don't see venue rules and policy as "outside authority", I see it as THE authority, so to speak. And if their line and whoever gets there first is the only line they consider official, the people who get to that line first, in this case ascahn, their place in line is (IMO) as legitimate as anything else
I have no clue why I am still talking about this but they were not the first in that line. The first in that line was moved by THE authority to another designated spot. 24 hours later his group claims that spot that was not allowed by group #1 but no security is there to move them. Are they lucky to get it and no authority is moving them or are they dicks for knowing others were in that spot but got moved. This is a question that will haunt us for years to come.
Easy answer. They’re dicks for knowing that others were there before they were and then didn’t move in behind the first group. Sounds like the first group didn’t respond well though.
Again, the 8:00 am line up rule is set by an outisde authority, why should that take precedent over the group established rule of whoever gets there first is first in line?
I guess for me, personally all in all I don't see venue rules and policy as "outside authority", I see it as THE authority, so to speak. And if their line and whoever gets there first is the only line they consider official, the people who get to that line first, in this case ascahn, their place in line is (IMO) as legitimate as anything else
I have no clue why I am still talking about this but they were not the first in that line. The first in that line was moved by THE authority to another designated spot. 24 hours later his group claims that spot that was not allowed by group #1 but no security is there to move them. Are they lucky to get it and no authority is moving them or are they dicks for knowing others were in that spot but got moved. This is a question that will haunt us for years to come.
Side question Jeff, with the rain delay were you able to get on your original flight? We were delayed the next day by a few hours. Talked to a few people who said tons of flights were canceled the night of the show.
No issues thankfully. We had an 6:10am flight and I am still recovering from the lack of sleep. Stayed up later then I wanted to last night to get the Thomas poster too. Going to make up for it tonight and the boys are going to daycare tomorrow thank god lol. At least yours was not cancelled. Glad we got to have a chat in before we moved into the venue! You guys seem like a great couple. Next time hopefully more time to hang out!
No queuing no camping, get to enjoy beautiful cities like Chicago show up in the afternoon randomly get a number which dictates where in line you are...completely random
No queuing no camping, get to enjoy beautiful cities like Chicago show up in the afternoon randomly get a number which dictates where in line you are...completely random
So, in order to get the rail...you not only need to be in line anywhere from 10-48 hours in advance, but also need to immediately run to the rail, and then spend the next 5-6 hours there without eating or going to the bathroom, all while elbowing out people who are trying to push up?
1994 - Bridge School Benefit, Shoreline Mountain View CA *** 1995 - 2015 High School, College, Broke, Having Kids*** 2016 - Temple of the Dog, Bill Graham Civic Center Auditorium, San Francisco CA 2017 - Eddie Vedder, Bourbon and Beyond, Louisville KY 2018 - The Home Shows, Show 2, Seattle WA 2019 - Eddie Vedder, Ohana Fest, Dana Point CA 2020- Oakland Nights 1 and 2 2020 - Ohana Fest 2021 - Ohana Fest 2022 - Oakland 1 and 2
"Watch out for music. It should come with a health warning. It can be dangerous. It can make you feel so alive, so connected to the people around you, and connected to what you really are inside. And it can make you think that the world should, and could, be a much better place. And just occasionally, it can make you very, very happy." -Peter Gabriel
No queuing no camping, get to enjoy beautiful cities like Chicago show up in the afternoon randomly get a number which dictates where in line you are...completely random
Sounds cool to me.
i have witnessed some performances. i have soaked up a lot of memories.
Again, the 8:00 am line up rule is set by an outisde authority, why should that take precedent over the group established rule of whoever gets there first is first in line?
I guess for me, personally all in all I don't see venue rules and policy as "outside authority", I see it as THE authority, so to speak. And if their line and whoever gets there first is the only line they consider official, the people who get to that line first, in this case ascahn, their place in line is (IMO) as legitimate as anything else
I have no clue why I am still talking about this but they were not the first in that line. The first in that line was moved by THE authority to another designated spot. 24 hours later his group claims that spot that was not allowed by group #1 but no security is there to move them. Are they lucky to get it and no authority is moving them or are they dicks for knowing others were in that spot but got moved. This is a question that will haunt us for years to come.
Did the venue specifically tell them "hey you guys are the first in line but we are moving you here" or did they go "we are moving you guys here because there technically is no line until 8am, but you guys are welcome to camp out over here for the chance to be first when the line starts"?
To me, based on the information given, the line did not start until 8am, and whoever physically is first in that 8am line when 8am starts, is first in line, right?
That just perpetuates the current problem because people will always arrive before 8:00. What I’m hearing is that if the 10c announced “the official line starts where the campers are” then people will follow that directive. What I’m saying is that we don’t need to wait for the 10c to declare that. Instead we do that ourselves.
Again, the 8:00 am line up rule is set by an outisde authority, why should that take precedent over the group established rule of whoever gets there first is first in line?
I guess for me, personally all in all I don't see venue rules and policy as "outside authority", I see it as THE authority, so to speak. And if their line and whoever gets there first is the only line they consider official, the people who get to that line first, in this case ascahn, their place in line is (IMO) as legitimate as anything else
I have no clue why I am still talking about this but they were not the first in that line. The first in that line was moved by THE authority to another designated spot. 24 hours later his group claims that spot that was not allowed by group #1 but no security is there to move them. Are they lucky to get it and no authority is moving them or are they dicks for knowing others were in that spot but got moved. This is a question that will haunt us for years to come.
Side question Jeff, with the rain delay were you able to get on your original flight? We were delayed the next day by a few hours. Talked to a few people who said tons of flights were canceled the night of the show.
No issues thankfully. We had an 6:10am flight and I am still recovering from the lack of sleep. Stayed up later then I wanted to last night to get the Thomas poster too. Going to make up for it tonight and the boys are going to daycare tomorrow thank god lol. At least yours was not cancelled. Glad we got to have a chat in before we moved into the venue! You guys seem like a great couple. Next time hopefully more time to hang out!
Yeah definitely got to get some beers next time. You and Jess reminded me of me and wife. Juggling kids around just to get away lol. Unfortunately couldn’t connect with @darwinstheory but did get to meet @bbiggs
Comments
Is that what you're saying? And if everyone was breaking the rules, why should ascahn have to get up and give up their seats to others who were around but not seated, regardless of why they weren't seated? At some point doesn't this whole Lord of the Flies scene amount to whoever is lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time "starts the line"?
Again, I don't even do GA, but the politics and psychology and rationales of all this is very interesting. And a bit troubling.
The 10c chiming in on numbered lists is
fine, but I think that was largely determined to be bullshit already. Again, the 8:00 am line up rule is set by an outisde authority, why should that take precedent over the group established rule of whoever gets there first is first in line?
•pointing to 5-7 people around him saying they were up there with him and would be back up there with him. They could vouch for one another. Creating a mob mentality.
•threatening physical harm - "I'll beat the shit out of people that try to stop us"
•using his size and accomplishing his task. About 2-3 back front center.
This behavior is inexcusable, barbaric and bullyish. Unfortunately, it wasn't worth a trip to the hospital for me. He is the kind of person I love to hate. Yes, hate. It does not good not just for a concert, but for society as a whole to have people acting this way.
To me, based on the information given, the line did not start until 8am, and whoever physically is first in that 8am line when 8am starts, is first in line, right?
The idea that one group breaking the rules and then told to move is super offended and feels very wronged when a 2nd group comes up, sits where they'd seen the line start the night before, security doesn't move them, and they feel they have a right to be there, it's kind of stunning that the group that was asked to move is THAT CERTAIN that they had the right and that this group who - by all your accounts - did NOT actually cut in front of anyone but sat down where no one else was sitting at the time they arrived and sat down to start waiting, that so many feel this was unfair and wrong.
The main "he said/she said" part seems to be whether and where the "Group 1" folks were when "Group 2" (who ended up in front of the line and abused by the big Group 3) where Group 1 was when Group 2 arrived. But you all seem to agree/acknowledge that when Group 2 sat down where they did, no one else was there, hence, no "cutting the line" because in that moment, they were the front of the line. Their luck in not being moved by security and staying in those spots seems like as good a reason as any to consider that the start of the line, because who can really say who is in front if the alleged Group 1 were milling around elsewhere across the street? And to be clear, I don't know ANY of you. I don't have a stake in this, just going by all that I've read.
Anyway, this is my last post on this. Talk about First World Problems indeed... I'm sure homeless people in every one of these show cities are like "Wow, what we'd do to swap problems with you guys!"
Ever hear the phrase "Live by the sword, die by the sword"? It means that if you follow a set of rules or break a set of rules, you can't get all twisted when others break the same rules and you don't like the outcome. You also can't be selective about who the rules or non-rules do and don't apply to.
Yes, this may sound extreme to some, but a line must be drawn and an example set. Should such a thing occur, what grounds would these rail rats have a valid argument? They wouldn't.
Yet, I understand such a thing will not occur. Thus, my belief that they (the band) enjoy the heck out of the rail rats and allow this to happen. And shower them with camera times in a DVD. Hand them Rizzo jerseys, etc...
All aside, I'll still go to the shows...we all will. And the band knows that. So, why really change anything?
I enjoyed the world class offerings of Chicago between shows and hung with the guy who introduced me to PJ in the first place as well as was with me on my first and now last (currently speaking) shows with another along the way. #reservedalltheway. #choices. #goodbefore&afterthedelay. #nostress
And if you DO move, you lose your spot?
Yeah, bring back the seats please.
Here to die.
Scared alive.
1994 - Bridge School Benefit, Shoreline Mountain View CA
*** 1995 - 2015 High School, College, Broke, Having Kids***
2016 - Temple of the Dog, Bill Graham Civic Center Auditorium, San Francisco CA
2017 - Eddie Vedder, Bourbon and Beyond, Louisville KY
2018 - The Home Shows, Show 2, Seattle WA
2019 - Eddie Vedder, Ohana Fest, Dana Point CA
2020- Oakland Nights 1 and 2
2020 - Ohana Fest
2021 - Ohana Fest
2022 - Oakland 1 and 2
"Watch out for music. It should come with a health warning. It can be dangerous. It can make you feel so alive, so connected to the people around you, and connected to what you really are inside. And it can make you think that the world should, and could, be a much better place. And just occasionally, it can make you very, very happy." -Peter Gabriel