My story dealing with several horrible entitled “railbirds” in GA at Wrigley 2

Vedd Hedd

I think if people had more space to claim as their own, the would move and dance more.

blackhawks

I understand the ‘fun’ of GA.  And to those that enjoy camping have at it.  I have just as much, if not more, fun up close at shows seated (you don’t sit during the show) than GA.  

PJ_Soul

blackhawks said:

PJ_Soul said:

blackhawks said:

I also would prefer going back to seats.  And I don’t want/‘need’ to be that close to enjoy the show.  I don’t want a pick or tambourine....I just want to enjoy the show.  U2 has the same problem.  Heck, I saw Tool reserved second row and that was extremely enjoyable.  I see no fun in GA at my age.

So why would you prefer no GA if you don't care if you're close? Just get reserved seats and let the GA people have their fun.

I would like to be on the floor with a seat not so far back if that makes sense.  And the aisle between GA and seated becomes GA so it is a bit of a pain.  

Why do you want GA to be close instead of seated close?

I don't want GA to be close. I want GA because I think it is more fun and energetic. I feel quite restricted in seats when I want to rock out. And I do like having way more people in the space, again just for the energy. I also like that GA simply make more 10C tickets available. Seats = fewer tickets. Seats are so damned organized. Everyone just standing in rows on the floor. Bleh. I am not surprised that more people are wanting seats.... The fan base is middle aged now... I'm just not ready for that yet; when I am, I'll be happy to go for reserved and enjoy watching the younger folks (or younger minded folks) rock out in GA.

mace1229

PJ_Soul said:

PB11041 said:

pjl44 said:

Team All Reserved Seating 2019

Same.  The GA thing is stupid. I don't get it.  I watched the rush ensue on video live from a phone the other night and thought man someone is going to get badly hurt in this nonsense to get a "rail".

GA brings more energy to the show - that's why PJ isn't going to drop it. The older their main fanbase gets, the more they need to try and keep the energy in front of the stage up, because it keeps them in it too. Yes, I know people can name all reserved shows that had energy, but that's the exception, not the norm, and as people age, that would become more and more rare - soon enough most of the old fogies up front will be sitting for half the show, lol. Also, they sell more tickets with a pit, which is pretty important I'm sure. Finally, having all reserved seating based on seniority, besides 4 lottery rows, is very off-putting to newer members. If they want to keep attracting new 10C members, then all reserved seating isn't the best method. GA is better business, basically.

I personally love GA because it's fucking fun, and yes, it definitely brings more energy to the show. I just hang back 6 deep and avoid all these fuckers on the rail as much as possible. I feel like getting rid of GA isn't even really fair - as it is, those who prefer reserved seats get reserved seats, and those who prefer GA get GA.... Without GA, there is only one option, and that sucks for a whole group of people.

All things I've thought to myself before. I would prefer reserve, but thats because I have a low number and know I'd still have good seats. If I were new i'd be trying for GA.
Even at Wrigley this year I found myself wishing I had GA and just hung in the back. I didnt like the mess that can come with it, but hanging in the back is still going to be a great view without any of those people fighting you for a better view. In my experience it wasn't just the rail, anyone within the first 6-8 seemed to be constanatly fighting people trying to wedge their way up, and if you arent willing to fight to keep your spot, you can start about 6 people deep and end up 12 or 15. I'd rather enjoy the show than worry about keeping my spot.

tschav

To be honest, this thread is more about jerk fans shoving and yelling through a GA crowd than the guys on the rail. 

I lucked out with my first rail experience Saturday, handed at least 10 of Mikes picks to people behind me for not pushing me to get them on the ground. Part of me was a little okay with losing my GA spot Monday despite second row center, purely based off the guy by himself getting plastered behind me and talking shit to everyone about lines. Be good to your neighbors and they'll be good to you. 

Ed celebrated the campers on Saturday night, so I'm pretty sure the band doesn't get bored of them. The guy from LP2 helped a fan having a seizure in the crowd on night one. GA line security was improved for the initial lineup on Monday night because they talked to 10c crew after we got into the pit. A few of them help collect garbage so the neighborhood doesn't file complaints. Sure, they are ensuring whatever they can to hold great spots, but they aren't selfish to the point of only looking out for themselves and have everyone else deal with their own shit.

Big Bank Hank

PJ_Soul said:

Big Bank Hank said:

For some people Eddie tossing them a tambourine or giving them some wine or touching them, is like the biggest deal ever, and they will still be telling stories about it 25 years from now. I don't care about any of that, more power to them if they are willingto invest all that time & energy. I am totally cool with lower reserve side stage, plus it's really nice having a seat & cupholder  plus easy bathroom access once Even Flow starts playing. Pearl Jam catching a shot of me on the rail during a show & posting the video later really won't make any difference in my life. Now if I happen to run into one of them in some random place & just be able to hang out & talk about ways to make the world a better place, real deep shit, that would be meaningful. Icon worship is a illusion, human to human interaction & finding ways to become better humans is where it's at. Besides Eddie has already played 3 requests for me from this board over the past 5 years, so I already feel kinda guilty about that, so I figure it's better to let others go up front with their signs & maybe they can get a song played or a shoutout & that will be a much more meaningful experience than it would be for me. I see the world through a rocking horse of time. Those people up front at the Seattle show earned it, lining up 4 days before in 90 degree heat, it's totally not worth it for me, plus when you get douche bags trying to muscle themselves in & cutting in front & just being down right disrespectful it can make for a really long night. I do have one question: If you are center rail, how in the hell do you take a piss? Empty bottle? Port a Potty? It seems like it would be really hard to get back the where you were before.

You don't go to the washroom. You stop drinking liquids in the afternoon and get it all out before you enter.
I have heard of guys actually doing the pee in a bottle thing though.... If someone peed in a bottle next to me I'd call security over and get them booted under the accusation of indecent exposure (I wouldn't actually care about the exposure part, but that's what would get them kicked out for being disgusting animals).

haha, "I'd rather be, I'd rather be, I'd rather with an animalllllllllllllllllllllllll!"

dnlbauer

Keep GA!  Was in GA for Seattle I (first time in GA).  I have been to 20 shows in all types of sections but GA.  Loved the energy, cool people and being so close to the stage.  Arrived at 6p, no problem getting in, was very close (maybe 10 rows back), and was able to easily get all the beer I wanted and use bathroom.  

I now want GA if possible every show!  It was hard to go back to the 100’s section for Seattle II, and field seats for Wrigley I.  Another idea, be like U2 and make the entire field GA - eliminating field seats that just get in the way and are never used.  We had U2 GA last year and there was plenty of space and it was easy to move.

PJ_Soul

dnlbauer said:

Keep GA!  Was in GA for Seattle I (first time in GA).  I have been to 20 shows in all types of sections but GA.  Loved the energy, cool people and being so close to the stage.  Arrived at 6p, no problem getting in, was very close (maybe 10 rows back), and was able to easily get all the beer I wanted and use bathroom.  

I now want GA if possible every show!  It was hard to go back to the 100’s section for Seattle II, and field seats for Wrigley I.  Another idea, be like U2 and make the entire field GA - eliminating field seats that just get in the way and are never used.  We had U2 GA last year and there was plenty of space and it was easy to move.

Yeah, I agree with having the whole floor GA. A 10C pit up front, and then general public GA behind that, separated by a barrier... Doing that increases the number of tix available by several thousand, so it seems like a no-brainer to me. I know some prefer the convenience and comfort of seats, but I don't see why that should trump having thousands of more tickets available to the fans.

Big Bank Hank

for Phoenix 2013 I sat in the 2nd deck right behind stage maybe 50 feet from Matt 25-30 feet above the stage on the rail, it was awesome, the energy between us in the upper deck behind the stage and the people in the pit (GA) going back & forth really generated energy in the arena & helped drive the show, Eddie kept looking up at us during the whole show and commented as much about it, I was super stoked

Go Beavers

PJ_Soul said:

Go Beavers said:

This is a good moral question. I would think returning to the previous spot is the right thing to do. Because of the rain delay, you waived this obligation combined with the herd mentality where you see all these others stealing spots. That still shouldn’t change your own rules though. Sometimes the group rules work well for everyone  E.g. allowing people to return to their spot after going to the john and getting beers. 

It's not stealing spots. It's standing in GA. Nobody has a "spot" unless they are already standing in it. If they leave that spot, it's not theirs anymore.

It seems like there’s a generally accepted rule that if you establish a spot in GA early before the show starts, (like hanging there for a bit and getting to know your neighbors) then people are totally cool with the person leaving for food, drinks, pee break.  This has been the case for me with every GA show I’ve been to (including 2 PJ GA shows). How people deal with the pushers and shovers is a different issue depending on the band and where you’re at geographically. 

Now in a rain delay it’s interesting that this norm goes out the window for most everyone. 

Go Beavers

dnlbauer said:

Keep GA!  Was in GA for Seattle I (first time in GA).  I have been to 20 shows in all types of sections but GA.  Loved the energy, cool people and being so close to the stage.  Arrived at 6p, no problem getting in, was very close (maybe 10 rows back), and was able to easily get all the beer I wanted and use bathroom.  

I now want GA if possible every show!  It was hard to go back to the 100’s section for Seattle II, and field seats for Wrigley I.  Another idea, be like U2 and make the entire field GA - eliminating field seats that just get in the way and are never used.  We had U2 GA last year and there was plenty of space and it was easy to move.

Totally agree. I had two GAs in a row this year for the first time and I can’t picture doing reserved again. 

incidental immortality

PJ_Soul said:

blackhawks said:

PJ_Soul said:

blackhawks said:

I also would prefer going back to seats.  And I don’t want/‘need’ to be that close to enjoy the show.  I don’t want a pick or tambourine....I just want to enjoy the show.  U2 has the same problem.  Heck, I saw Tool reserved second row and that was extremely enjoyable.  I see no fun in GA at my age.

So why would you prefer no GA if you don't care if you're close? Just get reserved seats and let the GA people have their fun.

I would like to be on the floor with a seat not so far back if that makes sense.  And the aisle between GA and seated becomes GA so it is a bit of a pain.  

Why do you want GA to be close instead of seated close?

I don't want GA to be close. I want GA because I think it is more fun and energetic. I feel quite restricted in seats when I want to rock out. And I do like having way more people in the space, again just for the energy. I also like that GA simply make more 10C tickets available. Seats = fewer tickets. Seats are so damned organized. Everyone just standing in rows on the floor. Bleh. I am not surprised that more people are wanting seats.... The fan base is middle aged now... I'm just not ready for that yet; when I am, I'll be happy to go for reserved and enjoy watching the younger folks (or younger minded folks) rock out in GA.

In my opinion the "more energy"  factor of GA is a myth.  Since they started this back in 2013 I've been to 4 GA shows.  I was in GA twice and in seats twice.  I didn't see any more or less energy in these shows than I did in the pre-2013 shows or the Fenway 2016 shows.  And I understand how seats are restrictive but I thought being up front (not rail) in GA  was even more cramped.  At least with seats you have a little personal space.  I was able to jump around much more in Fenway than I was in either of my two GA experiences.

I agree that the change to GA was just an effort to increase attendance.  They already had a lottery that ensured new faces in the first two rows.  Now you have people camping out, unofficial lists, fights, and other crazy stories.  Fighting with other fans over a spot seems like a horrible way to waste a show.

1upstate

dnlbauer said:

Keep GA!  Was in GA for Seattle I (first time in GA).  I have been to 20 shows in all types of sections but GA.  Loved the energy, cool people and being so close to the stage.  Arrived at 6p, no problem getting in, was very close (maybe 10 rows back), and was able to easily get all the beer I wanted and use bathroom.  

I now want GA if possible every show!  It was hard to go back to the 100’s section for Seattle II, and field seats for Wrigley I.  Another idea, be like U2 and make the entire field GA - eliminating field seats that just get in the way and are never used.  We had U2 GA last year and there was plenty of space and it was easy to move.

Its like these two words, as to why the whole floor of stadiums is not  a pit 

Roskilde Festival

mcgruff10

100 Pacer said:

darwinstheory said:

bbiggs said:

MayDay10 said:

I see the same (several) people on rail at most/every show.  Its a sickness

Wonder if the band gets tired of seeing the same faces. I would. 

No. They don't. These crazies start the lines days in advance. That kind of shit gets publicity. No such thing as bad pub.

Then Ed mad a point of getting the Rizzo Jersey on night 1 to the Release guy from Let's Play Two. And they made a point of showing the old Aussie dude from LPT several times. Think these guys aren't going to go for rail every time? 

When we walked out of Wrigley after the 1st show we noticed the Aussie you mentioned was already at the front of the GA line for the 2nd show forming across from Murphy’s under the L train. We just didn’t get it.

 How was there a line allowed that early?  I thought it was supposed to be 8am day of show?

PJ_Soul

Go Beavers said:

PJ_Soul said:

Go Beavers said:

This is a good moral question. I would think returning to the previous spot is the right thing to do. Because of the rain delay, you waived this obligation combined with the herd mentality where you see all these others stealing spots. That still shouldn’t change your own rules though. Sometimes the group rules work well for everyone  E.g. allowing people to return to their spot after going to the john and getting beers. 

It's not stealing spots. It's standing in GA. Nobody has a "spot" unless they are already standing in it. If they leave that spot, it's not theirs anymore.

It seems like there’s a generally accepted rule that if you establish a spot in GA early before the show starts, (like hanging there for a bit and getting to know your neighbors) then people are totally cool with the person leaving for food, drinks, pee break.  This has been the case for me with every GA show I’ve been to (including 2 PJ GA shows). How people deal with the pushers and shovers is a different issue depending on the band and where you’re at geographically. 

Now in a rain delay it’s interesting that this norm goes out the window for most everyone. 

Sure, people can be nice and make room for others, but it's not a guarantee, and people shouldn't treat it like a right in GA. And I do think that in a rain delay this rule goes completely out the window. Shitty luck, but that's the risk everyone in GA takes when they buy the tix for an outdoor show... Everyone knew that evacuating the field was a possibility this time around. I think it's absolutely crazy that anyone thought they should have a right to go back to the same spot they were after a field evacuation, particularly because there is nothing at all stopping any random person from barging up and claiming they were there before. None of this makes sense to me - I'm actually a bit stunned that people expect anything like this.

PJ_Soul

incidental immortality said:

PJ_Soul said:

blackhawks said:

PJ_Soul said:

blackhawks said:

I also would prefer going back to seats.  And I don’t want/‘need’ to be that close to enjoy the show.  I don’t want a pick or tambourine....I just want to enjoy the show.  U2 has the same problem.  Heck, I saw Tool reserved second row and that was extremely enjoyable.  I see no fun in GA at my age.

So why would you prefer no GA if you don't care if you're close? Just get reserved seats and let the GA people have their fun.

I would like to be on the floor with a seat not so far back if that makes sense.  And the aisle between GA and seated becomes GA so it is a bit of a pain.  

Why do you want GA to be close instead of seated close?

I don't want GA to be close. I want GA because I think it is more fun and energetic. I feel quite restricted in seats when I want to rock out. And I do like having way more people in the space, again just for the energy. I also like that GA simply make more 10C tickets available. Seats = fewer tickets. Seats are so damned organized. Everyone just standing in rows on the floor. Bleh. I am not surprised that more people are wanting seats.... The fan base is middle aged now... I'm just not ready for that yet; when I am, I'll be happy to go for reserved and enjoy watching the younger folks (or younger minded folks) rock out in GA.

In my opinion the "more energy"  factor of GA is a myth.  Since they started this back in 2013 I've been to 4 GA shows.  I was in GA twice and in seats twice.  I didn't see any more or less energy in these shows than I did in the pre-2013 shows or the Fenway 2016 shows.  And I understand how seats are restrictive but I thought being up front (not rail) in GA  was even more cramped.  At least with seats you have a little personal space.  I was able to jump around much more in Fenway than I was in either of my two GA experiences.

I agree that the change to GA was just an effort to increase attendance.  They already had a lottery that ensured new faces in the first two rows.  Now you have people camping out, unofficial lists, fights, and other crazy stories.  Fighting with other fans over a spot seems like a horrible way to waste a show.

Well, I don't know what to say. I do GA a lot, and it's absolutely my experience that it is fact, not myth. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ At least for most shows. There are exceptions to every rule of course.... It's not like a show with GA is immune to a plain old shitty crowd or shitty concert. It's not like GA is the only factor affecting energy at a show. So maybe that is what made the difference in the case of the shows you were at.

I agree that the rail also restricts movement. To me, it's just a leaning post that people wait hours or days to use. It doesn't even give you the best view of the stage FFS.... Unless you're short.

kid canada

Well if the crew who was about 7-8 people deep over to Stone's side of the stage (but further away from the middle) is on here, you guys were cool! Big guy in a Citizen Dick shirt, blonde girl in a Cubs hat and glasses, short-ish guy with long hair and a Phillies hat, two guys in trucker hats...was too bad we couldn't get all the way back to where we/you were before the rain delay but hope you had a great show (I was the smaller guy in a Citizen Dick shirt and San Jose giants hat). 

I've never been on the rail - was 2nd row (seated) for Fenway 2016, have been 3rd/4th row seated before. Honestly, you can have a great time from anywhere in the building. Depends who's around you. Have been down front and stuck behind tall people who didn't stop talking, and have had a great time sitting behind the stage where you just see their backs!

DirtyFrankAndBeans

PJ_Soul said:

Go Beavers said:

PJ_Soul said:

Go Beavers said:

This is a good moral question. I would think returning to the previous spot is the right thing to do. Because of the rain delay, you waived this obligation combined with the herd mentality where you see all these others stealing spots. That still shouldn’t change your own rules though. Sometimes the group rules work well for everyone  E.g. allowing people to return to their spot after going to the john and getting beers. 

It's not stealing spots. It's standing in GA. Nobody has a "spot" unless they are already standing in it. If they leave that spot, it's not theirs anymore.

It seems like there’s a generally accepted rule that if you establish a spot in GA early before the show starts, (like hanging there for a bit and getting to know your neighbors) then people are totally cool with the person leaving for food, drinks, pee break.  This has been the case for me with every GA show I’ve been to (including 2 PJ GA shows). How people deal with the pushers and shovers is a different issue depending on the band and where you’re at geographically. 

Now in a rain delay it’s interesting that this norm goes out the window for most everyone. 

Sure, people can be nice and make room for others, but it's not a guarantee, and people shouldn't treat it like a right in GA. And I do think that in a rain delay this rule goes completely out the window. Shitty luck, but that's the risk everyone in GA takes when they buy the tix for an outdoor show... Everyone knew that evacuating the field was a possibility this time around. I think it's absolutely crazy that anyone thought they should have a right to go back to the same spot they were after a field evacuation, particularly because there is nothing at all stopping any random person from barging up and claiming they were there before. None of this makes sense to me - I'm actually a bit stunned that people expect anything like this.

My point exactly when I made this thread PJsoul!  Everyone knew what happened last time they evacuated the field it’s completely absurd for anyone (let alone 3 separate people in my case!) to think they have there spot reserved in an all out rush to the stage!  If you weren’t running you were run over!  

1upstate

kid canada said:

Well if the crew who was about 7-8 people deep over to Stone's side of the stage (but further away from the middle) is on here, you guys were cool! Big guy in a Citizen Dick shirt, blonde girl in a Cubs hat and glasses, short-ish guy with long hair and a Phillies hat, two guys in trucker hats...was too bad we couldn't get all the way back to where we/you were before the rain delay but hope you had a great show (I was the smaller guy in a Citizen Dick shirt and San Jose giants hat). 

I've never been on the rail - was 2nd row (seated) for Fenway 2016, have been 3rd/4th row seated before. Honestly, you can have a great time from anywhere in the building. Depends who's around you. Have been down front and stuck behind tall people who didn't stop talking, and have had a great time sitting behind the stage where you just see their backs!

I was right behind this group and they were a good bunch.  The people closer to the middle were not so cool... it happens in GA land. I've been in dozens of pits and this was my first PJ experience.     I knew it was all going to change with the evacuation. 

PJ1973

pjl44 said:

PJ1973 said:

This sense of entitlement seems like it is happening more and more all over - I was just reading a day or two ago about how some fans at Phish concerts are putting down tarps on the floor to block out their 'space' and holding it for friends still outside. I mean, WTF?

 I've always had a good time in GA (4 shows) but it just takes a few people who act like they own the place to ruin the experience for others.

I read about the tarps, too. Did that start at Red Rocks? I saw My Morning Jacket there a couple years ago - first and only time there. I was shocked to see people covering big parts of the benches with blankets to claim space. Some were even taping them down. Festivals are one thing, but arenas and amphitheaters with that?

I don't know where it started. The article I read talked about it happening at Hampton Coliseum. Same thing, people putting down tarps over seats. I've seen blankets down on grass areas pre-show when people are hanging out, but then people pick it up once the show starts. This is more territorial. Part of the fun of GA is to be up close and personal with your neighbors!