My story dealing with several horrible entitled “railbirds” in GA at Wrigley 2

JB56195

GA is a pain.  Even 20 people back there are douche bags who are entitled and just walk up to stand in front of you. My issue is if you leave I'm stepping in to fill the hole.  Back in the 90s the pit would cycle.  People would mosh, crowd surf, get dehydrated and have to leave or get pulled out the front.  None of that is socially acceptable anymore (I'm not advocating its return) but people somehow want the experience of finding a spot and then being able to come back to it like it was a seat.  Everyone has got the friend in the 5th row they're trying to find.

I would go back to seats and make rows 1-10 random.  Senior 10 club members want to bail because they don't have the best seats anymore than so be it.  Heck even guests of the band had worse reserved seats than me at Wrigley 16.

Suziemay

You didn't do anything wrong in my opinion. You saw an opportunity and grabbed it. In 2013 I was mad because people who weren't even in GA jumped over the barricades and ran in ahead of us during re-entry but really I was mostly mad at security more than anyone else for doing a bad job, I don't blame anyone for seizing an opportunity. They also let Stone's side in before Mike's side in 2013; I was Mike's side and lost my rail spot in 2013 after queuing up all day, but a nice man let me go in front of him because it didn't look like the spot on the rail was big enough for him so I got back on the rail, but a bit further to the side than I was initially. I felt really bad asking but I was also feeling very sorry for myself I was fully expecting him to say no and that would have been cool. It's a concert, hardly the end of the world if I ended up second row.

After clearing out GA, no one has the right to say "that was my spot", that's not how GA works. It sucks but that's just life. That's why I won't really invest a lot of time queuing up for outdoor concerts (and honestly I generally avoid outdoor concerts).

mcgruff10

Go Beavers said:

dnlbauer said:

Keep GA!  Was in GA for Seattle I (first time in GA).  I have been to 20 shows in all types of sections but GA.  Loved the energy, cool people and being so close to the stage.  Arrived at 6p, no problem getting in, was very close (maybe 10 rows back), and was able to easily get all the beer I wanted and use bathroom.  

I now want GA if possible every show!  It was hard to go back to the 100’s section for Seattle II, and field seats for Wrigley I.  Another idea, be like U2 and make the entire field GA - eliminating field seats that just get in the way and are never used.  We had U2 GA last year and there was plenty of space and it was easy to move.

Totally agree. I had two GAs in a row this year for the first time and I can’t picture doing reserved again. 

Fenway 2 , 2016 was one of the best shows I have ever seen and that was all reserved.  I guess we will see how fenway 2018 goes.

PJ_Soul

1upstate said:

kid canada said:

Well if the crew who was about 7-8 people deep over to Stone's side of the stage (but further away from the middle) is on here, you guys were cool! Big guy in a Citizen Dick shirt, blonde girl in a Cubs hat and glasses, short-ish guy with long hair and a Phillies hat, two guys in trucker hats...was too bad we couldn't get all the way back to where we/you were before the rain delay but hope you had a great show (I was the smaller guy in a Citizen Dick shirt and San Jose giants hat). 

I've never been on the rail - was 2nd row (seated) for Fenway 2016, have been 3rd/4th row seated before. Honestly, you can have a great time from anywhere in the building. Depends who's around you. Have been down front and stuck behind tall people who didn't stop talking, and have had a great time sitting behind the stage where you just see their backs!

I was right behind this group and they were a good bunch.  The people closer to the middle were not so cool... it happens in GA land. I've been in dozens of pits and this was my first PJ experience.     I knew it was all going to change with the evacuation. 

For sure... Most people in the pit are wonderful. The rail rats and the random pit thugs and babies suck, but they are a small minority that I'm willing to deal with if I have to. The good far outweighs the bad in the pit.

Suziemay

bootlegger10 said:

The repeat offenders are just flat out selfish people.  Only so many shows a year and only so many cities, and some of these folks have to be front and center every time.  Selfish.

I don't agree with this tho, I think if someone is willing to put in the time, they deserve to be up front. I'm just surprised at how much time the same people are willing to put in I was a rail girl for a few years, I gave up this year!

HesCalledDyer

mace1229 said:

JH6056 said:

Even though the unfortunate Milwaukee poster who was new to the rail and felt like the band (or at least Ed) played to the familiar faces, let's also remember the band/TenClub started the policy of - for all reserved shows like Fenway - having first 2 rows and rows 8 & 9 be lottery.  I think for the most part that WAS to give new people the chance for front row/rail experiences. There's still a rail at reserved seat shows, and it's a lot more comfy and easier to enjoy because you can come and go and you don't have to sleep out for them.  You just have to be insanely lucky LOL!

But main point being, pretty sure the band got sick of the exact same faces every show in front and wanted to equalize the opportunity a bit.  Hopefully Fenway will have lots of new faces... not that I'll be up there to see them, dagnabbit!

Never scored 1 and 2, but got 8 a few times. I have a fairly good number though. Did they have 10c seats between 2 and 8? Joined in 1998 and always felt like getting row 8 several times was due to a good number and not just keep getting lucky in the lottery.

I got row 8 or 9 in DC 2008, which is the closest I ever got.  I'm usually somewhere in this area, Stone's side of the stage in the seats.  It's still pretty close and has a great line of sight (that's me circled):

sudzilla

mikeliska said:

swany24 said:

I've had both GA and reserved for the Wrigley shows.  GA was a cool experience to have once, but reserved is where it's at.  While people were waiting in line all day Saturday, me and my friend were Ubering throughout the city exploring some of the great breweries the city has to offer.  That's a much better use of my time, rather than standing in a line all day.

My only complaint about the reserved seats is that this year I got the BP section tickets.  They were way too low.  

You can still enjoy GA without waiting in lines.  I tend to walk in a few minutes before the show starts.

this ^.  we walked in as soon as they started clearing the field, and were some of the last to be escorted out. could have easily ran up to the front with the rest of the obsessives, but we walked calmly back to the floor towards the middle of the right speaker stack and had a blast.  perfect site lines, sound was great, easy to get a drink & go pee...  the rail riders can have that overcrowded, angsty space up front and battle creepers trying to get up front all night, i'd much rather enjoy the show with my buds and have space.

DirtyFrankAndBeans

All this talk of taking away the GA is ridiculous tho it’s great to be able to hang with the real fans who are 99% awesome you just have these few assholes mixed in and I was just unlucky to have 3 in a row!!   I lost my only rail chance ever and I’m glad I’m getting my story out because I was pretty salty about how it went down!   I love GA tho and will always be dancing somewhere (rows 6-12 probably!) 

sissonp33

I had amazing experiences in GA at Wrigley 2 and Montana, getting in line basically as the doors opened and not fighting for position. Surrounded by good, fun people both nights. Ironically, my worst experience of my three shows this year was night 2 in Seattle, row 10 on the field. We had drunk jerks behind us pushing the chairs into our legs and trying to carry a conversation through the whole show, people on either side that didn’t seem into it at all and 6 empty seats in front of us. The show was obviously still amazing, but, for us, it lacked the usual energy that comes from your neighbors. I have a good TC number so I almost always get seats, but after this year I might start reconsidering and do the back of the pit thing more often. 

dcp3y

I did the GA thing once and enjoyed it (Pitt 13), but will generally always prefer reserved seating to anything I saw regarding what went on Monday at Wrigley.  When they let people back into the pit I greatly feared for people’s safety as the masses swarmed for a choice spot.  Waiting in lines is growing old on me.  I hope 10C puts considerable thought into improvements not only into GA aspects but Merch as well for future tours - no way people should have to stand thru such lines only to get to the front and the good stuff is sold out yet a certain “flea bay” has everything at 3-5 times the costs.  True fans are being gouged with time and/or money.  Very thankful for my 2013 ticket buddy helping me out this year.  Thanks Kevin!  Also heard reserved people were crashing GA, which probably didn’t help the situation any.  10C has mostly solid members, but likewise has its share of bad apples - “try not to suck!”  Until next time...keep on Rockin!

Bentleyspop

pjl44 said:

PJ1973 said:

This sense of entitlement seems like it is happening more and more all over - I was just reading a day or two ago about how some fans at Phish concerts are putting down tarps on the floor to block out their 'space' and holding it for friends still outside. I mean, WTF?

 I've always had a good time in GA (4 shows) but it just takes a few people who act like they own the place to ruin the experience for others.

I read about the tarps, too. Did that start at Red Rocks? I saw My Morning Jacket there a couple years ago - first and only time there. I was shocked to see people covering big parts of the benches with blankets to claim space. Some were even taping them down. Festivals are one thing, but arenas and amphitheaters with that?

I was under the impression  that the infamous  "running of the tarps" at Red Rocks was no longer allowed. Anyway here it is from a Widespread  Panic show a few years ago....

https://youtu.be/SgQ-IyK4RAs

sudzilla

sissonp33 said:

I had amazing experiences in GA at Wrigley 2 and Montana, getting in line basically as the doors opened and not fighting for position. Surrounded by good, fun people both nights. Ironically, my worst experience of my three shows this year was night 2 in Seattle. We had drunk jerks behind us pushing the chairs into our legs and trying to carry a conversation through the whole show, people on either side that didn’t seem into it at all and 6 empty seats in front of us. The show was obviously still amazing, but, for us, it lacked the usual energy that comes from your neighbors. I have a good TC number so I almost always get seats, but after this year I might start reconsidering and do the back of the pit thing more often. 

back of the pit is where its at.  

HesCalledDyer

Bentleyspop said:

pjl44 said:

PJ1973 said:

This sense of entitlement seems like it is happening more and more all over - I was just reading a day or two ago about how some fans at Phish concerts are putting down tarps on the floor to block out their 'space' and holding it for friends still outside. I mean, WTF?

 I've always had a good time in GA (4 shows) but it just takes a few people who act like they own the place to ruin the experience for others.

I read about the tarps, too. Did that start at Red Rocks? I saw My Morning Jacket there a couple years ago - first and only time there. I was shocked to see people covering big parts of the benches with blankets to claim space. Some were even taping them down. Festivals are one thing, but arenas and amphitheaters with that?

I was under the impression  that the infamous  "running of the tarps" at Red Rocks was no longer allowed. Anyway here it is from a Widespread  Panic show a few years ago....

https://youtu.be/SgQ-IyK4RAs

Widespread Panic.  Never listened to them but it appears they're aptly named.

abaum25

Putting the stage in the middle of the floor so there is a ga pit on all 4 sides could help.  Arcade Fire did this last tour and it worked great imo.

pjl44

Bentleyspop said:

pjl44 said:

PJ1973 said:

This sense of entitlement seems like it is happening more and more all over - I was just reading a day or two ago about how some fans at Phish concerts are putting down tarps on the floor to block out their 'space' and holding it for friends still outside. I mean, WTF?

 I've always had a good time in GA (4 shows) but it just takes a few people who act like they own the place to ruin the experience for others.

I read about the tarps, too. Did that start at Red Rocks? I saw My Morning Jacket there a couple years ago - first and only time there. I was shocked to see people covering big parts of the benches with blankets to claim space. Some were even taping them down. Festivals are one thing, but arenas and amphitheaters with that?

I was under the impression  that the infamous  "running of the tarps" at Red Rocks was no longer allowed. Anyway here it is from a Widespread  Panic show a few years ago....

https://youtu.be/SgQ-IyK4RAs

Was 2015 when I saw it

Redrumh2o

I used to like going to punk and hardcore shows because once the music started and people started moving and creating chaos,  there would be a rush of teen girls crying coming from the front and you could just slide up to the rail to avoid most of the pit and tomfoolery going on in front of the stage. Those were the days. If I ever got GA for a humungous show/venue like this I'd probably find a good spot towards the back where I could see.

Go Beavers

Redrumh2o said:

I used to like going to punk and hardcore shows because once the music started and people started moving and creating chaos,  there would be a rush of teen girls crying coming from the front and you could just slide up to the rail to avoid most of the pit and tomfoolery going on in front of the stage. Those were the days. If I ever got GA for a humungous show/venue like this I'd probably find a good spot towards the back where I could see.

That still happens at shows. I went to an Agent Orange show with a full blown mosh pit. I’m hanging on to the rail and the dad next to me is giving me guff because I guess I bumped into his teenaged daughter or one of her friends. I’m thinking ‘seriously? Do you know what show you’re at?’  I just laugh those types off or get space from them. If someone’s own personal space rules doesn’t jive with what’s going on around them, some will
leave, but some will insist that everyone around them adjust to their needs. 

incidental immortality

PJ_Soul said:

incidental immortality said:

PJ_Soul said:

blackhawks said:

PJ_Soul said:

blackhawks said:

I also would prefer going back to seats.  And I don’t want/‘need’ to be that close to enjoy the show.  I don’t want a pick or tambourine....I just want to enjoy the show.  U2 has the same problem.  Heck, I saw Tool reserved second row and that was extremely enjoyable.  I see no fun in GA at my age.

So why would you prefer no GA if you don't care if you're close? Just get reserved seats and let the GA people have their fun.

I would like to be on the floor with a seat not so far back if that makes sense.  And the aisle between GA and seated becomes GA so it is a bit of a pain.  

Why do you want GA to be close instead of seated close?

I don't want GA to be close. I want GA because I think it is more fun and energetic. I feel quite restricted in seats when I want to rock out. And I do like having way more people in the space, again just for the energy. I also like that GA simply make more 10C tickets available. Seats = fewer tickets. Seats are so damned organized. Everyone just standing in rows on the floor. Bleh. I am not surprised that more people are wanting seats.... The fan base is middle aged now... I'm just not ready for that yet; when I am, I'll be happy to go for reserved and enjoy watching the younger folks (or younger minded folks) rock out in GA.

In my opinion the "more energy"  factor of GA is a myth.  Since they started this back in 2013 I've been to 4 GA shows.  I was in GA twice and in seats twice.  I didn't see any more or less energy in these shows than I did in the pre-2013 shows or the Fenway 2016 shows.  And I understand how seats are restrictive but I thought being up front (not rail) in GA  was even more cramped.  At least with seats you have a little personal space.  I was able to jump around much more in Fenway than I was in either of my two GA experiences.

I agree that the change to GA was just an effort to increase attendance.  They already had a lottery that ensured new faces in the first two rows.  Now you have people camping out, unofficial lists, fights, and other crazy stories.  Fighting with other fans over a spot seems like a horrible way to waste a show.

Well, I don't know what to say. I do GA a lot, and it's absolutely my experience that it is fact, not myth. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ At least for most shows. There are exceptions to every rule of course.... It's not like a show with GA is immune to a plain old shitty crowd or shitty concert. It's not like GA is the only factor affecting energy at a show. So maybe that is what made the difference in the case of the shows you were at.

I agree that the rail also restricts movement. To me, it's just a leaning post that people wait hours or days to use. It doesn't even give you the best view of the stage FFS.... Unless you're short.

OK.  Here are the shows:  Worcester 1 and 2  2013 (GA both nights), Hartford  2016 (Reserved), MSG 2016 (Reserved), Fenway 1 and 2 2016.  For those shows the two that stood out to me were Fenway 2 and Hartford.  I didn't see a major difference in energy from these shows versus the shows I'd attended before GA was introduced.

But I agree that energy is that weird thing. Once it starts to build its like a drug.  You can't wait for the next show just in hopes of having that experience again.  Why was Hartford 2016 so loud?  GA?  A Friday night?  Being between Boston and New York?  I don't think anyone can say for sure.

But I believe that some of how you interpret a show's energy depends on your personal experience.  If you're in the back of the arena surrounded by people sitting down then you interpret the show as low energy.  You may be looking down on the front rows and think that no one is moving but those in the pit have a first hand view of the action and think that the energy is sky high.

At the end of the day my opinion really doesn't matter much.  The band has made this change and I don't see them going back to all reserved any time soon, if ever.  Those who like GA will get what they want.  I just want all fans to know that the older fans are only in their 40's and 50's, not in nursing homes.  For my part, I only see a show or two every few years and I feel like I still have the energy that I had back in '94.  At least for the 3 hours of the show.

Big Bank Hank

I am far too claustrophobic for GA, particularly if someone smells bad

blackhawks

Big Bank Hank said:

I am far too claustrophobic for GA, particularly if someone smells bad

Hah!  That would get to be a bit much.  But you get some oddballs in seats.  The ladies in front of us in Seattle 2 ate the whole show.  I mean chowed down.  They were really into eating and I found that weird.