Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
why are muslims trying to have shira law in the US ? and attacking Christians world wide ? are these the evil ones you talked about ?
Godfather.
Do you know percentage of us population that are Muslim? Don't look it up just take a guess.
I don't know....maybe about 5% ?
Godfather.
.08%
Wouldn't be to worried about sharia law taking hold.
To be honest... I think gauging power based on population impact and not population itself is probably more logical. Power isn't in numbers: if it's economic power, it's in dollars spent/earned for the nation. If it's power measured in ability to restrict rights, it should be measured in something else - maybe damage done historically in light of perceived inaction.
For example, the Jewish population in the US hovers around 2.5% I believe, and yet someone posted something to the effect that Jews "own half of the US": this is how it was deemed that power should be measured in that regard. Since there's already a reasonably well-regarded democratic process in place in America, what power would a subset of the populace (i.e. Muslims in America) possess to bring about change in the justice system?
My suspicion is that if we were able to put together a cohesive measurement of the power of Islam in the US, we'd find that there's a great disconnect between the perceived amount of power, and the reality. While I don't believe that population itself is a solid metric of power, it's interesting to me that Godfather's expectation about the Muslim population (which it seems like he and you believe is a good metric for power) was approximately 62 times as large as the actual value: this is a perfect example of that disconnect.
EDIT: For the record, I'm in no way suggesting this means we should be weary and that Sharia will take over as the new book of law in the States; I'm merely saying that power is not measured in pure number of people.
Post edited by benjs on
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
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The Juggler
Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,279
why are muslims trying to have shira law in the US ? and attacking Christians world wide ? are these the evil ones you talked about ?
Godfather.
Do you know percentage of us population that are Muslim? Don't look it up just take a guess.
I don't know....maybe about 5% ?
Godfather.
.08%
Wouldn't be to worried about sharia law taking hold.
.08 % in America...how many people is that...100,000 or a million or 10 million ? and what percentage of those are sleepers ? (bad guys)
Godfather.
Godfather,
I'm going to make some incredibly racially stereotypical assumptions here to make a point, that I in no way believe to be accurate, but should present a fairly conservative risk analysis.
If 90% of the Muslim population in America were "sleepers" (which is an outrageous allegation on my part), let's just assume that the non-Muslim population is, on average, about 1/90th as likely to be a "bad guy", or 1% of the remaining population.
90% of 0.08% of 316 million = 227,520 potential "sleepers" 1% of 99.92% of 316 million = 3,157,472 potential "sleepers"
Do you see my point?
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
why are muslims trying to have shira law in the US ? and attacking Christians world wide ? are these the evil ones you talked about ?
Godfather.
Do you know percentage of us population that are Muslim? Don't look it up just take a guess.
I don't know....maybe about 5% ?
Godfather.
.08%
Wouldn't be to worried about sharia law taking hold.
To be honest... I think gauging power based on population impact and not population itself is probably more logical. Power isn't in numbers: if it's economic power, it's in dollars spent/earned for the nation. If it's power measured in ability to restrict rights, it should be measured in something else - maybe damage done historically in light of perceived inaction.
For example, the Jewish population in the US hovers around 2.5% I believe, and yet someone posted something to the effect that Jews "own half of the US": this is how it was deemed that power should be measured in that regard. Since there's already a reasonably well-regarded democratic process in place in America, what power would a subset of the populace (i.e. Muslims in America) possess to bring about change in the justice system?
My suspicion is that if we were able to put together a cohesive measurement of the power of Islam in the US, we'd find that there's a great disconnect between the perceived amount of power, and the reality. While I don't believe that population itself is a solid metric of power, it's interesting to me that Godfather's expectation about the Muslim population (which it seems like he and you believe is a good metric for power) was approximately 62 times as large as the actual value: this is a perfect example of that disconnect.
EDIT: For the record, I'm in no way suggesting this means we should be weary and that Sharia will take over as the new book of law in the States; I'm merely saying that power is not measured in pure number of people.
Accountant? Scientist? HA
Was simply pointing out perception. Wasn't crunching the numbers as to actual effect. )
why are muslims trying to have shira law in the US ? and attacking Christians world wide ? are these the evil ones you talked about ?
Godfather.
Do you know percentage of us population that are Muslim? Don't look it up just take a guess.
I don't know....maybe about 5% ?
Godfather.
.08%
Wouldn't be to worried about sharia law taking hold.
.08 % in America...how many people is that...100,000 or a million or 10 million ? and what percentage of those are sleepers ? (bad guys)
Godfather.
Godfather,
I'm going to make some incredibly racially stereotypical assumptions here to make a point, that I in no way believe to be accurate, but should present a fairly conservative risk analysis.
If 90% of the Muslim population in America were "sleepers" (which is an outrageous allegation on my part), let's just assume that the non-Muslim population is, on average, about 1/90th as likely to be a "bad guy", or 1% of the remaining population.
90% of 0.08% of 316 million = 227,520 potential "sleepers" 1% of 99.92% of 316 million = 3,157,472 potential "sleepers"
Do you see my point?
Read this after my last post. I was right.
And would think the .08% would of made an impact on inability to impose sharia law in US but ................oh well.
why are muslims trying to have shira law in the US ? and attacking Christians world wide ? are these the evil ones you talked about ?
Godfather.
Do you know percentage of us population that are Muslim? Don't look it up just take a guess.
I don't know....maybe about 5% ?
Godfather.
.08%
Wouldn't be to worried about sharia law taking hold.
.08 % in America...how many people is that...100,000 or a million or 10 million ? and what percentage of those are sleepers ? (bad guys)
Godfather.
Godfather,
I'm going to make some incredibly racially stereotypical assumptions here to make a point, that I in no way believe to be accurate, but should present a fairly conservative risk analysis.
If 90% of the Muslim population in America were "sleepers" (which is an outrageous allegation on my part), let's just assume that the non-Muslim population is, on average, about 1/90th as likely to be a "bad guy", or 1% of the remaining population.
90% of 0.08% of 316 million = 227,520 potential "sleepers" 1% of 99.92% of 316 million = 3,157,472 potential "sleepers"
Do you see my point?
Read this after my last post. I was right.
And would think the .08% would of made an impact on inability to impose sharia law in US but ................oh well.
Callen,
I'm pretty sure we're on the same page about the absurdity of the shift of law to Sharia in America, and I know you were talking about perception. While we may agree, it's just good to get into the habit of making sure we're all coming to conclusions based on sound logic. A small Muslim population relative to the other sects represented within America is certainly a deterrent from having Sharia take over as the prevalent form of law, but it isn't the best deterrent: American policy seems to overwhelmingly follow number of dollars to be potentially gained based on its implementation, rather than number of lives affected.
As for your accountant/scientist comment... Not sure if you're asking if I am either of those, but I'm not.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,781
Can we get back to something factual? Like ISIS ......
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
I can't see American main stream everyday Muslims allowing the more radicalized sects to really take heavy root here.I know too many that strongly oppose that kind of nonsense and are equally if not more pissed and sensitive to it then most non Muslims .Most are like BB.
I can't see American main stream everyday Muslims allowing the more radicalized sects to really take heavy root here.I know too many that strongly oppose that kind of nonsense and are equally if not more pissed and sensitive to it then most non Muslims .Most are like BB.
I can't see American main stream everyday Muslims allowing the more radicalized sects to really take heavy root here.I know too many that strongly oppose that kind of nonsense and are equally if not more pissed and sensitive to it then most non Muslims .Most are like BB.
I'm with you on that. I hope I've been at least somewhat successful in showing how, even with the most outlandish allegations about Muslims, the probability of anything such as Sharia taking over as law in America, or disproportionately large "terror threats" at the hands of Muslims, is still insanely small compared to non-Muslim threats. And speaking of non-Muslim threats...has anyone seen my tin foil hat? The government stole my last one.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
I think most people on here need to also quit talking about Shariah as though they actually know what it is. It's a much more sophisticated system than both ignorant Westerners and literalists like the Taliban or ISIL give it credit for. Just as the evolution of Western rule of law did not culminate in Nazi gas chambers, neither did the development of the Shariah culminate in ISIL's cancerous growth in Syria and Iraq.
I think most people on here need to also quit talking about Shariah as though they actually know what it is. It's a much more sophisticated system than both ignorant Westerners and literalists like the Taliban or ISIL give it credit for. Just as the evolution of Western rule of law did not culminate in Nazi gas chambers, neither did the development of the Shariah culminate in ISIL's cancerous growth in Syria and Iraq.
More sophisticated in what ways?
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
I think most people on here need to also quit talking about Shariah as though they actually know what it is. It's a much more sophisticated system than both ignorant Westerners and literalists like the Taliban or ISIL give it credit for. Just as the evolution of Western rule of law did not culminate in Nazi gas chambers, neither did the development of the Shariah culminate in ISIL's cancerous growth in Syria and Iraq.
I don't know enough about Sharia, but I'm trying to explain to people that it's outlandish and absurd to fear that it will be responsible for an upheaval of the current judicial system. Not that our current one is so great.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
I think most people on here need to also quit talking about Shariah as though they actually know what it is. It's a much more sophisticated system than both ignorant Westerners and literalists like the Taliban or ISIL give it credit for. Just as the evolution of Western rule of law did not culminate in Nazi gas chambers, neither did the development of the Shariah culminate in ISIL's cancerous growth in Syria and Iraq.
I think most people on here need to also quit talking about Shariah as though they actually know what it is. It's a much more sophisticated system than both ignorant Westerners and literalists like the Taliban or ISIL give it credit for. Just as the evolution of Western rule of law did not culminate in Nazi gas chambers, neither did the development of the Shariah culminate in ISIL's cancerous growth in Syria and Iraq.
Religion has no place in law.
Did religion not come before modern nationalism? If that's the case, it's likely been present in people's minds for much longer than the sense of belonging to state. If you trace the origins of law back far enough then, I suspect you'd find that even in North America, law is likely predicated upon religious ideals.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
That depends on how far you want to go back. We could take it to extremes, of course - like the Hammurabic Code - but in fact much of North American law draws from English common law, which draws from the Saxon legal system and earlier Continental systems back to the Roman empire, which drew from the Greeks. Much of this was not religiously based. The Anglo Saxons, for instance, had a very property-based law system; if you wronged someone (murdered their family member, for instance), you paid a set amount.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
That depends on how far you want to go back. We could take it to extremes, of course - like the Hammurabic Code - but in fact much of North American law draws from English common law, which draws from the Saxon legal system and earlier Continental systems back to the Roman empire, which drew from the Greeks. Much of this was not religiously based. The Anglo Saxons, for instance, had a very property-based law system; if you wronged someone (murdered their family member, for instance), you paid a set amount.
Thanks, oftenreading! This is why I post here - I learn something new every day.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
I think most people on here need to also quit talking about Shariah as though they actually know what it is. It's a much more sophisticated system than both ignorant Westerners and literalists like the Taliban or ISIL give it credit for. Just as the evolution of Western rule of law did not culminate in Nazi gas chambers, neither did the development of the Shariah culminate in ISIL's cancerous growth in Syria and Iraq.
Religion has no place in law.
Did religion not come before modern nationalism? If that's the case, it's likely been present in people's minds for much longer than the sense of belonging to state. If you trace the origins of law back far enough then, I suspect you'd find that even in North America, law is likely predicated upon religious ideals.
Of course, but my point still stands. We did a lot of stupid shit in the past but I would like to think we have moved forward. Were not all the way there yet but were heading in the right direction. Looking at law from a religious perspective (Christian or Muslim) is a step backwards. Law should be completely secular.
I would also like to point out that religion doesn't have the market cornered on what is wrong and right.
That depends on how far you want to go back. We could take it to extremes, of course - like the Hammurabic Code - but in fact much of North American law draws from English common law, which draws from the Saxon legal system and earlier Continental systems back to the Roman empire, which drew from the Greeks. Much of this was not religiously based. The Anglo Saxons, for instance, had a very property-based law system; if you wronged someone (murdered their family member, for instance), you paid a set amount.
Very interesting oftenreading. Didn't read your post before I had made my last one.
There's something I should have added to my earlier post (but hey, the dog needed to go out for a walk).
There are some basic things that virtually all civilizations want. Most people want a sense of security and fairness. They don't want to worry about being assaulted or murdered, or their property being stolen. That's why even basic legal codes generally prohibit murder, theft, etc.; not because the Ten Commandments said so, but because common sense says so. As dignin said, religion doesn't corner the market on right and wrong.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
There's something I should have added to my earlier post (but hey, the dog needed to go out for a walk).
There are some basic things that virtually all civilizations want. Most people want a sense of security and fairness. They don't want to worry about being assaulted or murdered, or their property being stolen. That's why even basic legal codes generally prohibit murder, theft, etc.; not because the Ten Commandments said so, but because common sense says so. As dignin said, religion doesn't corner the market on right and wrong.
I agree. It always astonishes me when you hear hyper-religious people who truly believe that if their *insert religious text here* didn't instruct people not to kill - they'd just go right ahead and do it. There are some ethical or moral conclusions that, like you, I believe are innately within us.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,781
A thought occurred the other day about why oil production by OPEC hasn't and wont be slowed despite falling prices. This is one way to fight ISIS ,drive the price they can get down and diminish their "profit" from black market sales and their captured product.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Comments
This guy is an awesome representative of the military.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Some of the other folks were pretty awesome as well.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Wouldn't be to worried about sharia law taking hold.
For example, the Jewish population in the US hovers around 2.5% I believe, and yet someone posted something to the effect that Jews "own half of the US": this is how it was deemed that power should be measured in that regard. Since there's already a reasonably well-regarded democratic process in place in America, what power would a subset of the populace (i.e. Muslims in America) possess to bring about change in the justice system?
My suspicion is that if we were able to put together a cohesive measurement of the power of Islam in the US, we'd find that there's a great disconnect between the perceived amount of power, and the reality. While I don't believe that population itself is a solid metric of power, it's interesting to me that Godfather's expectation about the Muslim population (which it seems like he and you believe is a good metric for power) was approximately 62 times as large as the actual value: this is a perfect example of that disconnect.
EDIT: For the record, I'm in no way suggesting this means we should be weary and that Sharia will take over as the new book of law in the States; I'm merely saying that power is not measured in pure number of people.
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Godfather.
I'm going to make some incredibly racially stereotypical assumptions here to make a point, that I in no way believe to be accurate, but should present a fairly conservative risk analysis.
If 90% of the Muslim population in America were "sleepers" (which is an outrageous allegation on my part), let's just assume that the non-Muslim population is, on average, about 1/90th as likely to be a "bad guy", or 1% of the remaining population.
90% of 0.08% of 316 million = 227,520 potential "sleepers"
1% of 99.92% of 316 million = 3,157,472 potential "sleepers"
Do you see my point?
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Was simply pointing out perception. Wasn't crunching the numbers as to actual effect.
And would think the .08% would of made an impact on inability to impose sharia law in US but ................oh well.
I'm pretty sure we're on the same page about the absurdity of the shift of law to Sharia in America, and I know you were talking about perception. While we may agree, it's just good to get into the habit of making sure we're all coming to conclusions based on sound logic. A small Muslim population relative to the other sects represented within America is certainly a deterrent from having Sharia take over as the prevalent form of law, but it isn't the best deterrent: American policy seems to overwhelmingly follow number of dollars to be potentially gained based on its implementation, rather than number of lives affected.
As for your accountant/scientist comment... Not sure if you're asking if I am either of those, but I'm not.
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Of course, but my point still stands. We did a lot of stupid shit in the past but I would like to think we have moved forward. Were not all the way there yet but were heading in the right direction. Looking at law from a religious perspective (Christian or Muslim) is a step backwards. Law should be completely secular.
I would also like to point out that religion doesn't have the market cornered on what is wrong and right.
There are some basic things that virtually all civilizations want. Most people want a sense of security and fairness. They don't want to worry about being assaulted or murdered, or their property being stolen. That's why even basic legal codes generally prohibit murder, theft, etc.; not because the Ten Commandments said so, but because common sense says so. As dignin said, religion doesn't corner the market on right and wrong.
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
US Jets Flown by Iranians Might Be Attacking North Korean Tanks in the Middle East
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Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14