There is no god

brianlux · July 2014

23scidoo said:

brianlux said:

23scidoo said:
''God is everything and anything that can be imagined, but the one thing God is not is definable. Attempts by the anthropocentrists to define the unknown, to finite the infinite, have only led and continue to lead to ecological holocaust and the deaths of billions of lives.''

i agree brianlux,but is this not the destination of the human race?..reach the uknown?..touch the stars?..find our inside god?..ad astra per aspera..if you want to go above,you have to go below first..
Interesting thought, 23scidoo, but I'm not sure what our destination is other than that on our current path, our destination is extinction of our species and that many, many others that we are taking down with us. The point of Waton's (I said "Wilson earlier by mistake) quote is that most religion is based on anthropocentric thinking which leaves all other life pretty much out of the picture and other than perhaps some indigenous beliefs, particularly American Indian beliefs, ignores the divine nature of everything living and non-living.

Another good quote from Watson:

"The truth is not to be found in Christian icons, Judaic writings, Islamic rules, Buddhist meditations, dianetics or any of the theological inventions of humankind.

The truth cannot be found in political philosophies.

The truth can only be found by realizing that it cannot be found and that all is not knowable, that the infinite can never be comprehended by the finite. The purpose of life is life itself. The purpose of death is rebirth. The purpose of birth is death. The immortality of humanity as in all species is to be found in the Continuum."

This doesn't mean we can't reach for the stars or seek to better understand the unknown but if we do so with the belief that we are separate or better or above all else, or that we can define or find a god or belief we ourselves have invented we will only reach a dead end. If our perspective is that we are a part of a greater whole we might become part of that whole that is undefinable and divine.

i'm not follower of any religion and i don't know if there is a god or not..but most of all, i don't believe almost nobody who tells me he got the truth..the truth is something subjective i guess..if you ask a christian he tells you:yes man its true,i know..and yes.. its true for him..if you ask a buddhist,he tells you the same..and he can fly for his god or walk on the water..i'm more interesting for the questions but the answers..i agree again,we are parts of the big picture..if we start wonder about what the fuck is going on here and who the fuck we are..we gonna have two results..a better planet and better hymanity..eddie said..i'm a seed wondering why it grows..you sould visit a greek island..standing at the sunset above of the sea..behind you few white houses with blue windows..starting wonder..

I would LOVE to visit a Greek Island. Hell, I would love to BUY a Greek Island if I could, haha!

But I know what you mean. Today I stood at the base of 10,000 ft. (3048 meter) Round Top Mountain in the Sierra Nevada Mountain Range and watched these huge, massive, surreal clouds build and pour over the top of that mountain in a way that was truly awe inspiring. An act of nature like this alone is enough to leave me very satisfied with not needing a mythological god. Nature at it's finest is the closest thing to a god I could ever ask for. Not that God doesn't possibly exist but if God does exist, that is out of the range of my human perception and understanding and I'm ok with that. :-)

know1 · July 2014

PJ_Soul said:

I don't deny God's existence because I don't understand God or that his ways are illogical (my last post was a joke btw). I don't believe in God because the very idea that God exists is completely illogical.

That is the same thing. You're essentially saying that if a Supreme Being doesn't make sense to your human mind, then it must not exist.

In other words, you are saying that, based upon your human knowledge and experience, the existence of God doesn't make sense so it must not be true.

What I was saying is that essentially shows that, for you to believe in a God, that God has to make logical sense to you. In other words, the God is probably not any more powerful, complex or impressive than you can comprehend.

know1 · July 2014

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

know1 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

What?

This is arrogance at its finest. Your comment reads as follows: if you don't believe in God, then you are small-minded and self-important.

Nope. Read it again. I said if the REASON you don't believe God is because you can't understand God, then you're being small minded.

I read it again. You defined three different types of people as being small-minded. Here's what you said (with the three different people in parentheses):

People who try to define God (person #1) or deny God's existence because they don't understand God (person #2) or think God's ways are illogical (person #3) are being incredibly small-minded and self important.

The statement is most certainly critical of many non-believers.

I'm not sure about 3 different people, but I will agree that my statement is critical of MANY non-believers. But your reply said I was critical of ALL non believers so I see you've realized that you misunderstood it.

know1 · July 2014

PJ_Soul said:
If there were a God the world and people would be a hell of a lot better than they are, and there would be no mosquitoes.
People who think that God created us and the world and everything, they must not have a very good opinion of him!

And in my opinion, people who judge God by the world and our mortal life are missing the much bigger picture.

callen · July 2014

brianlux said:

23scidoo said:

brianlux said:

23scidoo said:
''God is everything and anything that can be imagined, but the one thing God is not is definable. Attempts by the anthropocentrists to define the unknown, to finite the infinite, have only led and continue to lead to ecological holocaust and the deaths of billions of lives.''

i agree brianlux,but is this not the destination of the human race?..reach the uknown?..touch the stars?..find our inside god?..ad astra per aspera..if you want to go above,you have to go below first..
Interesting thought, 23scidoo, but I'm not sure what our destination is other than that on our current path, our destination is extinction of our species and that many, many others that we are taking down with us. The point of Waton's (I said "Wilson earlier by mistake) quote is that most religion is based on anthropocentric thinking which leaves all other life pretty much out of the picture and other than perhaps some indigenous beliefs, particularly American Indian beliefs, ignores the divine nature of everything living and non-living.

Another good quote from Watson:

"The truth is not to be found in Christian icons, Judaic writings, Islamic rules, Buddhist meditations, dianetics or any of the theological inventions of humankind.

The truth cannot be found in political philosophies.

The truth can only be found by realizing that it cannot be found and that all is not knowable, that the infinite can never be comprehended by the finite. The purpose of life is life itself. The purpose of death is rebirth. The purpose of birth is death. The immortality of humanity as in all species is to be found in the Continuum."

This doesn't mean we can't reach for the stars or seek to better understand the unknown but if we do so with the belief that we are separate or better or above all else, or that we can define or find a god or belief we ourselves have invented we will only reach a dead end. If our perspective is that we are a part of a greater whole we might become part of that whole that is undefinable and divine.

i'm not follower of any religion and i don't know if there is a god or not..but most of all, i don't believe almost nobody who tells me he got the truth..the truth is something subjective i guess..if you ask a christian he tells you:yes man its true,i know..and yes.. its true for him..if you ask a buddhist,he tells you the same..and he can fly for his god or walk on the water..i'm more interesting for the questions but the answers..i agree again,we are parts of the big picture..if we start wonder about what the fuck is going on here and who the fuck we are..we gonna have two results..a better planet and better hymanity..eddie said..i'm a seed wondering why it grows..you sould visit a greek island..standing at the sunset above of the sea..behind you few white houses with blue windows..starting wonder..
I would LOVE to visit a Greek Island. Hell, I would love to BUY a Greek Island if I could, haha!

But I know what you mean. Today I stood at the base of 10,000 ft. (3048 meter) Round Top Mountain in the Sierra Nevada Mountain Range and watched these huge, massive, surreal clouds build and pour over the top of that mountain in a way that was truly awe inspiring. An act of nature like this alone is enough to leave me very satisfied with not needing a mythological god. Nature at it's finest is the closest thing to a god I could ever ask for. Not that God doesn't possibly exist but if God does exist, that is out of the range of my human perception and understanding and I'm ok with that. :-)

Wonderful Brian. With on these thoughts.

callen · July 2014

know1 said:

PJ_Soul said:
If there were a God the world and people would be a hell of a lot better than they are, and there would be no mosquitoes.
People who think that God created us and the world and everything, they must not have a very good opinion of him!
And in my opinion, people who judge God by the world and our mortal life are missing the much bigger picture.

Guess my rub is the judgement, Acceptance and damnation. There are so many gods how can one be the true god. In a bible that I could follow, it would have one page with one line. "Do onto others as you would have them do onto you."

23scidoo · July 2014

brianlux said:

23scidoo said:

brianlux said:

23scidoo said:
''God is everything and anything that can be imagined, but the one thing God is not is definable. Attempts by the anthropocentrists to define the unknown, to finite the infinite, have only led and continue to lead to ecological holocaust and the deaths of billions of lives.''

i agree brianlux,but is this not the destination of the human race?..reach the uknown?..touch the stars?..find our inside god?..ad astra per aspera..if you want to go above,you have to go below first..
Interesting thought, 23scidoo, but I'm not sure what our destination is other than that on our current path, our destination is extinction of our species and that many, many others that we are taking down with us. The point of Waton's (I said "Wilson earlier by mistake) quote is that most religion is based on anthropocentric thinking which leaves all other life pretty much out of the picture and other than perhaps some indigenous beliefs, particularly American Indian beliefs, ignores the divine nature of everything living and non-living.

Another good quote from Watson:

"The truth is not to be found in Christian icons, Judaic writings, Islamic rules, Buddhist meditations, dianetics or any of the theological inventions of humankind.

The truth cannot be found in political philosophies.

The truth can only be found by realizing that it cannot be found and that all is not knowable, that the infinite can never be comprehended by the finite. The purpose of life is life itself. The purpose of death is rebirth. The purpose of birth is death. The immortality of humanity as in all species is to be found in the Continuum."

This doesn't mean we can't reach for the stars or seek to better understand the unknown but if we do so with the belief that we are separate or better or above all else, or that we can define or find a god or belief we ourselves have invented we will only reach a dead end. If our perspective is that we are a part of a greater whole we might become part of that whole that is undefinable and divine.

i'm not follower of any religion and i don't know if there is a god or not..but most of all, i don't believe almost nobody who tells me he got the truth..the truth is something subjective i guess..if you ask a christian he tells you:yes man its true,i know..and yes.. its true for him..if you ask a buddhist,he tells you the same..and he can fly for his god or walk on the water..i'm more interesting for the questions but the answers..i agree again,we are parts of the big picture..if we start wonder about what the fuck is going on here and who the fuck we are..we gonna have two results..a better planet and better hymanity..eddie said..i'm a seed wondering why it grows..you sould visit a greek island..standing at the sunset above of the sea..behind you few white houses with blue windows..starting wonder..
I would LOVE to visit a Greek Island. Hell, I would love to BUY a Greek Island if I could, haha!

But I know what you mean. Today I stood at the base of 10,000 ft. (3048 meter) Round Top Mountain in the Sierra Nevada Mountain Range and watched these huge, massive, surreal clouds build and pour over the top of that mountain in a way that was truly awe inspiring. An act of nature like this alone is enough to leave me very satisfied with not needing a mythological god. Nature at it's finest is the closest thing to a god I could ever ask for. Not that God doesn't possibly exist but if God does exist, that is out of the range of my human perception and understanding and I'm ok with that. :-)

'''Do you see the way that tree bends?
Does it inspire?''

''Have you ideas on how this life ends?
Checked your hands and studied the lines
Have you the belief that the road ahead, ascends off into the light?''

i don't know eddie..but i swear to all the greek gods, i'll try to figure out..thank you brian for your thoughts..i always love to have food for thought.. :-h

Thirty Bills Unpaid · July 2014

know1 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

know1 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

What?

This is arrogance at its finest. Your comment reads as follows: if you don't believe in God, then you are small-minded and self-important.

Nope. Read it again. I said if the REASON you don't believe God is because you can't understand God, then you're being small minded.

I read it again. You defined three different types of people as being small-minded. Here's what you said (with the three different people in parentheses):

People who try to define God (person #1) or deny God's existence because they don't understand God (person #2) or think God's ways are illogical (person #3) are being incredibly small-minded and self important.

The statement is most certainly critical of many non-believers.
I'm not sure about 3 different people, but I will agree that my statement is critical of MANY non-believers. But your reply said I was critical of ALL non believers so I see you've realized that you misunderstood it.

You can keep running from your statement if you want, but the bottom line is you openly criticized the majority of non-believers for not believing. I never misunderstood anything. And... you threw another veiled insult in one of your last posts.

But, people like me are used to the devoutly religious types warning me of my evil ways for not dropping to my knees every Sunday and throwing my bills on to the offering plate as they so eagerly do. I understand where they are coming from though so I don't typically belittle them- their programming has been exceptional and done at an age where the mind is easily shaped. To illustrate what I mean consider the fact that at one time, I believed intensely in Santa Clause. I'm not kidding. I loved that man for many years and if anyone had even hinted that perhaps he wasn't real... well... it was on. Not only that, I would go home and tell my parents how Johnny could expect a nice big bag of coal for Christmas after what he claimed. Of course, as I grew older and wiser, the clouds gradually moved away from the sun and I saw things for what they actually were as I began to question what was heaped on me. As strong and as much as I once believed in the man... the improbability of the story gave way to common sense and lack of evidence (even the half bitten cookie and the empty glass of milk weren't enough).

I also used to have a relationship with God. As I child I was sold religion and I eagerly bought it. As a child, who wouldn't? I didn't want to die and the thought of eternal life made me embrace anything that promised something to the contrary. But, as in my previous situation (much later though), I began to have serious questions while never receiving answers anywhere close to being satisfactory: "Just believe" doesn't cut it for me. I grew older and wiser and I began to see things clearly as the clouds moved away from the sun again: the improbability of the story gave way to common sense and lack of evidence.

Bottom line: on my death bed, I'll hopefully look back at my life and feel proud of what I did on my time on earth and accept death for what it is- a natural part of the life cycle for all animals on this planet. Hopefully, I will have lived a rich life that I won't lie there regretting what I didn't do instead of celebrating what I did.

If someone else passes peacefully while anticipating a spiritual passing into another dimension, I really couldn't care- that is for that person and if it makes their final day (and life for that matter) better believing such... good. Just don't smirk at others for not needing such a belief to get through their existence and face their days.

brianlux · July 2014

23scidoo said:

brianlux said:

23scidoo said:

brianlux said:

23scidoo said:
''God is everything and anything that can be imagined, but the one thing God is not is definable. Attempts by the anthropocentrists to define the unknown, to finite the infinite, have only led and continue to lead to ecological holocaust and the deaths of billions of lives.''

i agree brianlux,but is this not the destination of the human race?..reach the uknown?..touch the stars?..find our inside god?..ad astra per aspera..if you want to go above,you have to go below first..
Interesting thought, 23scidoo, but I'm not sure what our destination is other than that on our current path, our destination is extinction of our species and that many, many others that we are taking down with us. The point of Waton's (I said "Wilson earlier by mistake) quote is that most religion is based on anthropocentric thinking which leaves all other life pretty much out of the picture and other than perhaps some indigenous beliefs, particularly American Indian beliefs, ignores the divine nature of everything living and non-living.

Another good quote from Watson:

"The truth is not to be found in Christian icons, Judaic writings, Islamic rules, Buddhist meditations, dianetics or any of the theological inventions of humankind.

The truth cannot be found in political philosophies.

The truth can only be found by realizing that it cannot be found and that all is not knowable, that the infinite can never be comprehended by the finite. The purpose of life is life itself. The purpose of death is rebirth. The purpose of birth is death. The immortality of humanity as in all species is to be found in the Continuum."

This doesn't mean we can't reach for the stars or seek to better understand the unknown but if we do so with the belief that we are separate or better or above all else, or that we can define or find a god or belief we ourselves have invented we will only reach a dead end. If our perspective is that we are a part of a greater whole we might become part of that whole that is undefinable and divine.

i'm not follower of any religion and i don't know if there is a god or not..but most of all, i don't believe almost nobody who tells me he got the truth..the truth is something subjective i guess..if you ask a christian he tells you:yes man its true,i know..and yes.. its true for him..if you ask a buddhist,he tells you the same..and he can fly for his god or walk on the water..i'm more interesting for the questions but the answers..i agree again,we are parts of the big picture..if we start wonder about what the fuck is going on here and who the fuck we are..we gonna have two results..a better planet and better hymanity..eddie said..i'm a seed wondering why it grows..you sould visit a greek island..standing at the sunset above of the sea..behind you few white houses with blue windows..starting wonder..
I would LOVE to visit a Greek Island. Hell, I would love to BUY a Greek Island if I could, haha!

But I know what you mean. Today I stood at the base of 10,000 ft. (3048 meter) Round Top Mountain in the Sierra Nevada Mountain Range and watched these huge, massive, surreal clouds build and pour over the top of that mountain in a way that was truly awe inspiring. An act of nature like this alone is enough to leave me very satisfied with not needing a mythological god. Nature at it's finest is the closest thing to a god I could ever ask for. Not that God doesn't possibly exist but if God does exist, that is out of the range of my human perception and understanding and I'm ok with that. :-)

'''Do you see the way that tree bends?
Does it inspire?''

''Have you ideas on how this life ends?
Checked your hands and studied the lines
Have you the belief that the road ahead, ascends off into the light?''

i don't know eddie..but i swear to all the greek gods, i'll try to figure out..thank you brian for your thoughts..i always love to have food for thought.. :-h

Likewise, scidoo.

:-bd

PJ_Soul · July 2014

23scidoo said:

brianlux said:

23scidoo said:
''God is everything and anything that can be imagined, but the one thing God is not is definable. Attempts by the anthropocentrists to define the unknown, to finite the infinite, have only led and continue to lead to ecological holocaust and the deaths of billions of lives.''

i agree brianlux,but is this not the destination of the human race?..reach the uknown?..touch the stars?..find our inside god?..ad astra per aspera..if you want to go above,you have to go below first..
Interesting thought, 23scidoo, but I'm not sure what our destination is other than that on our current path, our destination is extinction of our species and that many, many others that we are taking down with us. The point of Waton's (I said "Wilson earlier by mistake) quote is that most religion is based on anthropocentric thinking which leaves all other life pretty much out of the picture and other than perhaps some indigenous beliefs, particularly American Indian beliefs, ignores the divine nature of everything living and non-living.

Another good quote from Watson:

"The truth is not to be found in Christian icons, Judaic writings, Islamic rules, Buddhist meditations, dianetics or any of the theological inventions of humankind.

The truth cannot be found in political philosophies.

The truth can only be found by realizing that it cannot be found and that all is not knowable, that the infinite can never be comprehended by the finite. The purpose of life is life itself. The purpose of death is rebirth. The purpose of birth is death. The immortality of humanity as in all species is to be found in the Continuum."

This doesn't mean we can't reach for the stars or seek to better understand the unknown but if we do so with the belief that we are separate or better or above all else, or that we can define or find a god or belief we ourselves have invented we will only reach a dead end. If our perspective is that we are a part of a greater whole we might become part of that whole that is undefinable and divine.

i'm not follower of any religion and i don't know if there is a god or not..but most of all, i don't believe almost nobody who tells me he got the truth..the truth is something subjective i guess..if you ask a christian he tells you:yes man its true,i know..and yes.. its true for him..if you ask a buddhist,he tells you the same..and he can fly for his god or walk on the water..i'm more interesting for the questions but the answers..i agree again,we are parts of the big picture..if we start wonder about what the fuck is going on here and who the fuck we are..we gonna have two results..a better planet and better hymanity..eddie said..i'm a seed wondering why it grows..you sould visit a greek island..standing at the sunset above of the sea..behind you few white houses with blue windows..starting wonder..

Actual truth is completely objective though, just for the record.

PJ_Soul · July 2014

know1 said:

PJ_Soul said:
If there were a God the world and people would be a hell of a lot better than they are, and there would be no mosquitoes.
People who think that God created us and the world and everything, they must not have a very good opinion of him!
And in my opinion, people who judge God by the world and our mortal life are missing the much bigger picture.

Dude, I was kidding. I don't even believe in God.

evsgjamm · August 2014

brianlux · August 2014

evsgjamm said:

Oh... MY... GOD!! Eddie is God!!!

hedonist · August 2014

evsgjamm said:

Those are...strangely hilarious.

Kinda wish they'd superimposed the bleached-blond version of Ed though

rr165892 · August 2014

His skin looks so youthful.

evsgjamm · August 2014

that's because he is the sun. He is the light.

october22 · August 2014

Haven't read through this entire thread because the OP's main point was pretty ridiculous.

Of course there is no god but using Zimmerman to prove that is like using mile marker 39 on the New Jersey parkway as evidence that unicorns aren't real.

PJ_Soul · August 2014

october22 said:
Haven't read through this entire thread because the OP's main point was pretty ridiculous.

Of course there is no god but using Zimmerman to prove that is like using mile marker 39 on the New Jersey parkway as evidence that unicorns aren't real.

Lol. The thread got a bit better than that later, FYI. I didn't even realize that's what the OP was about! :P

october22 · August 2014

PJ_Soul said:
God is a man-made fairytale that people believe in and even kill and/or for. It's pretty crazy. Probably the strangest thing about human society.

nailed it.

october22 · August 2014

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

hedonist said:
Declaring there is no god is as misguided (to me, anyway) as claiming that there IS one.

How long must it take for us to realize we don't know shit when it comes to this? We may believe, or believe we know, but none of us knows.
I struggle with the topic of religion.

The universe is much too profound to think we are at the very center of it. We are definitely a miracle, but I don't think it was a holy one at the hands of an omnipresent, superpowered entity that got bored one day and decided to make human beings which would worship him.

It's just as likely that 'God' created whales in his image and we are just a species of animal on this planet like squirrels, bears, birds and beetles.

The idea of God and Heaven is very appealing though and as a kid, I eagerly bought in; however, things changed for me as I began to question things that could never be answered to any degree of satisfaction. I may have a 'moment' where I recapture my faith, but this 'moment' would need to be profound (basically a high five from God).

Regardless, as long as one is peaceful, whatever gets them through their day is okay with me.

Nice post, Thirty. While I wouldn't use the word "miracle" (though you were clear in what you meant), we are a pretty awesome result of physics and chemistry plus time. Not just us, but all life.

With respect to life, the awesomeness of it and all other plants and animals, what I think most people take for granted is that in the scale of it all there is no real difference in the majesty of human beings vs the majesty of single cell organisms. Human evolution is an astounding fact and very well understood at this point but when viewed through the lens of deep time it doesn't really amount to jack shit. The most amazing thing about all life is that it happened, not that we happened. I feel like religious people especially fail to recognize that.

"Declaring there is no god is as misguided (to me, anyway) as claiming that there IS one." This just isn't a very well thought out argument, Hedonist, and I hardly believe you actually agree with it. This type of thinking means that you have to give equal weight to the existence or non-existence of literally everything anyone has ever conceived of. That's clearly absurd. I say that there is no god in the same way that there is no Zeus or Spiderman. Since there is equal evidence for all of them (which is zero evidence) would you honestly consider it legitimate to believe that comic book characters are more than a work of fiction? Of course you wouldn't, but that is the argument you're making.

There is no god

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