Actually, I once saw on a TV show where there is an actual "god center" of the mind which has been theorized to develop around the same time that man developed the the intelligence to realize that "shit. we're floating in space. and, shit. we're all gonna die".
When this part of the brain was activated by whatever means-- electrode things & stuff-- the subjects reported the sense of spiritual beings in the room with them.
ThisTV special was narrated by Morgan Freeman. So it's true
Actually, I once saw on a TV show where there is an actual "god center" of the mind which has been theorized to develop around the same time that man developed the the intelligence to realize that "shit. we're floating in space. and, shit. we're all gonna die".
When this part of the brain was activated by whatever means-- electrode things & stuff-- the subjects reported the sense of spiritual beings in the room with them.
ThisTV special was narrated by Morgan Freeman. So it's true
That sounds fascinating. That is definitely what I believe. At its core, belief in god is a reaction to the fear of death and the human inability to conceive the beginning or ending of our own self-awareness. Which I suppose I understand on a physiological level if what that movie says is true. Being constantly afraid of that doesn't seem very conducive to productivity or self-preservation. However, I think that the human brain (or maybe just our better knowledge of the world) has developed enough for us to be able to settle or accept that fear without needing to resort to god, which almost always inevitably leads to religion (en masse), which inevitably leads to all kinds of bullshit. It's just that society isn't willing to catch up yet. I have faith that it will someday.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
i am fascinated by the unknown & research the topics in it nearly on a daily basis. i have no fear of the unknown or death or any of this. this existence we are in is complex. none of us can prove or disprove anything on this subject. i like what i feel, works for me.
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
PJ, your having faith in what may happen down the road - is that not so different than having faith in something else? You neither relate to nor accept it, and I get it (even respect it in itself, minus the mindset of "those who view or live it differently are ludicrous". I just feel you're writing off many in the process.)
Something so complex and personal, even if by our own minds and experiences, can't be boiled down to either/or.
Or, if it can be that for some, it's not laughable that it might not be for others.
Life experiences make you (well, me) question the why's. I grew up with the "life isn't fair" mantra from my father, who learned that via WWII and also his faith. Moreso his faith (and I never knew a better man).
Which is why I said earlier, I don't know but I'm open to anyone willing to do the same.
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,754
I don't write anybody off Hedonist. Just because I have views re religion and belief in god doesn't mean I look at people who do believe in god and write them off. I would be pretty fucking lonely if i did, lol. I just think they are wrong. Yes I wonder how anyone can believe in that shit. But it doesn't affect my personal relationships with people. I don't have to agree with people to respect them as people. Sorry if what I say offends anyone.... i guess. Not really, actually. I am totally comfortable with my views on the subject, lol. And so I should be. Yes, I think belief in god is absurd. That doesn't mean I think pretty much everyone on earth is absurd. The world is designed so that everyone grows up believing in god still.
And chadwick, I don't think that everyone who believes in God is scared. But that fear is the reason the concept grew and maintains itself.
What I do think is that believers should be working day and night trying to prove god. They wouldn't be able to of course, since god doesn't exist, but I think it is their responsibility to try and to then admit defeat when they can't. I think that should be their number one responsibility if they expect everyone in the world to live with religion guiding politics, history, culture, behaviour, etc. It really pisses me off that religion (which for the most part is completely rolled up with their belief in god) still plays this HUGE roll in human society. It makes me feel like I am a victim of the belief in god (and like everyone in the world is). That really isn't fair. It makes me mad that children are brought into this world that raises them to be a part of this mass delusion.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I just don't understand why any of these things have to be connected to some kind intelligent design or purpose. I consider this concept a symptom of human arrogance.
any of what things. any of everything?
I consider it a symptom of human humility. that would be the opposite of arrogance. :wink face:
Humility in the face of what..... an entity we invented to explain the the world around us in lieu of the intelligence we hadnt yet acquired to explain it?
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I just don't understand why any of these things have to be connected to some kind intelligent design or purpose. I consider this concept a symptom of human arrogance.
any of what things. any of everything?
I consider it a symptom of human humility. that would be the opposite of arrogance. :wink face:
Humility in the face of what..... an entity we invented to explain the the world around us in lieu of the intelligence we hadnt yet acquired to explain it?
oh good. explain us please. and the world around us
Wait, I know about dust and spinning balls and stuff, and I understand about carbon-based stuff and things crawling out of the ocean, and the blue-footed boobys on that island, whatever its name is, but my question is, were we invented of the stars just so that we could realize they are stars?
and how were we all organized together like this, with spleens and livers and elbows and knees, just by chance, how can that be? and what sparked life when there was no life. This was never explained to my satisfaction ever
Wait, I know about dust and spinning balls and stuff, and I understand about carbon-based stuff and things crawling out of the ocean, and the blue-footed boobys on that island, whatever its name is, but my question is, were we invented of the stars just so that we could realize they are stars?
no.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
and how were we all organized together like this, with spleens and livers and elbows and knees, just by chance, how can that be? and what sparked life when there was no life. This was never explained to my satisfaction ever
Define life.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
I don't write anybody off Hedonist. Just because I have views re religion and belief in god doesn't mean I look at people who do believe in god and write them off. I would be pretty fucking lonely if i did, lol. I just think they are wrong. Yes I wonder how anyone can believe in that shit. But it doesn't affect my personal relationships with people. I don't have to agree with people to respect them as people. Sorry if what I say offends anyone.... i guess. Not really, actually. I am totally comfortable with my views on the subject, lol. And so I should be. Yes, I think belief in god is absurd. That doesn't mean I think pretty much everyone on earth is absurd. The world is designed so that everyone grows up believing in god still.
And chadwick, I don't think that everyone who believes in God is scared. But that fear is the reason the concept grew and maintains itself.
What I do think is that believers should be working day and night trying to prove god. They wouldn't be able to of course, since god doesn't exist, but I think it is their responsibility to try and to then admit defeat when they can't. I think that should be their number one responsibility if they expect everyone in the world to live with religion guiding politics, history, culture, behaviour, etc. It really pisses me off that religion (which for the most part is completely rolled up with their belief in god) still plays this HUGE roll in human society. It makes me feel like I am a victim of the belief in god (and like everyone in the world is). That really isn't fair. It makes me mad that children are brought into this world that raises them to be a part of this mass delusion.
I just can't figure out the disconnect between "how can someone believe that shit" and "I respect them". That's on me, though.
You are not a victim by any means, PJ (and again, please note the difference between belief in "god" and religion, though if one is peaceful I have no problem with either or neither). You are FREE to believe or discount anything you want. I expect nothing from those who believe in something (to whom should they prove god? and why? to whose benefit?), same as for those who decry that same something. And those like me who are somewhere in between. How can you demand that someone have the onus to prove to you or anyone else what they believe? It's personal to them, it's not about you.
As to admitting defeat...not sure what that means? It's not a competition.
sidenote...I can't imagine anyone having this shit all figured out. Somewhere in this thread I think was mentioned mystery (brianlux?), and that's kind of where I stand.
I fucking hate this love/hate thing I have with this topic
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,754
and how were we all organized together like this, with spleens and livers and elbows and knees, just by chance, how can that be? and what sparked life when there was no life. This was never explained to my satisfaction ever
Define life.
Turns out this is harder to do than we might think. I was recently reading about anhydrobiotic organisms. They're tiny life forms found in places like desert water holes that go through a state of cryptobiosis. When the water they live in dries up, these critters form a tiny dry ball around themselves which also eventually dries up and remains in that form until moisture is reintroduced- which can be many months. They essentially become lifeless but when immersed in water they come back to life. Little Lazerus like critters. Fascinating!
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
and how were we all organized together like this, with spleens and livers and elbows and knees, just by chance, how can that be? and what sparked life when there was no life. This was never explained to my satisfaction ever
Define life.
Turns out this is harder to do than we might think. I was recently reading about anhydrobiotic organisms. They're tiny life forms found in places like desert water holes that go through a state of cryptobiosis. When the water they live in dries up, these critters form a tiny dry ball around themselves which also eventually dries up and remains in that form until moisture is reintroduced- which can be many months. They essentially become lifeless but when immersed in water they come back to life. Little Lazerus like critters. Fascinating!
Sounds like life to me brian. The fact that due to circumstances these lifeforms go into a period of suspended animation makes no difference. Humans have observed this interesting phenomenon and come to the conclusion youve described above... it doesnt mean at some stage the critters were dead and came back to life imo... but it does sound like quite a nifty evolutionary step.
Post edited by catefrances on
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,754
and how were we all organized together like this, with spleens and livers and elbows and knees, just by chance, how can that be? and what sparked life when there was no life. This was never explained to my satisfaction ever
Define life.
Turns out this is harder to do than we might think. I was recently reading about anhydrobiotic organisms. They're tiny life forms found in places like desert water holes that go through a state of cryptobiosis. When the water they live in dries up, these critters form a tiny dry ball around themselves which also eventually dries up and remains in that form until moisture is reintroduced- which can be many months. They essentially become lifeless but when immersed in water they come back to life. Little Lazerus like critters. Fascinating!
Sounds like life to me brian. The fact that due to circumstances these lifeforms go into a period of suspended animation makes no difference. Humans have observed this interesting phenomenon and come to the conclusion youve described above... it doesnt mean at some stage the critters were dead and came back to life imo... but it does sound like quite a nifty evolutionary step.
Yeah I'd like to try it sometime... at least until my back stops being out of whack. ;-)
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Mans wisdom is futile, without God his advice and direction man have no hope, theres my 2 cents worth, im not willing to argue my point either, I know what I know...
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,754
Mans wisdom is futile, without God his advice and direction man have no hope, theres my 2 cents worth, im not willing to argue my point either, I know what I know...
That may be so (though I couldn't say) but I do find, in general, women have a lot of wisdom, better advice and give better directions than men. And I'm fairly certain that's true.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Thats because women are more disciplined, you find there are men out there with wisdom who are disciplined but they seem to be without their own kind so go figure, ive yet to meet any aside from the Christians I know
Thats because women are more disciplined, you find there are men out there with wisdom who are disciplined but they seem to be without their own kind so go figure, ive yet to meet any aside from the Christians I know
That's because Christians rock! The non-Christians suck.
What are you asking from Santa Claus this year?
"My brain's a good brain!"
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
You know...that "Santa Baby" song was chock-full of innuendo.
I'm trying to figure out (seemingly a trend for me this morning!) what "their own kind" means in the context of the comment. And...no wise or disciplined men outside of Christianity? Perhaps that circle should be widened, JW?
(no innuendo intended-o!)
My take on the gender thing is that it's pretty much an even field. Thankfully, I've known men and women of integrity, faith and no faith, self-control, kindness...while at times reveling in the so-called deadly sins.
time & everything in it: past, present & future unfoldings layered on top one another, string therory? life is more than a human can understand, this would be god
Comments
When this part of the brain was activated by whatever means-- electrode things & stuff-- the subjects reported the sense of spiritual beings in the room with them.
ThisTV special was narrated by Morgan Freeman. So it's true
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
That is definitely what I believe. At its core, belief in god is a reaction to the fear of death and the human inability to conceive the beginning or ending of our own self-awareness. Which I suppose I understand on a physiological level if what that movie says is true. Being constantly afraid of that doesn't seem very conducive to productivity or self-preservation. However, I think that the human brain (or maybe just our better knowledge of the world) has developed enough for us to be able to settle or accept that fear without needing to resort to god, which almost always inevitably leads to religion (en masse), which inevitably leads to all kinds of bullshit. It's just that society isn't willing to catch up yet. I have faith that it will someday.
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
Something so complex and personal, even if by our own minds and experiences, can't be boiled down to either/or.
Or, if it can be that for some, it's not laughable that it might not be for others.
Life experiences make you (well, me) question the why's. I grew up with the "life isn't fair" mantra from my father, who learned that via WWII and also his faith. Moreso his faith (and I never knew a better man).
Which is why I said earlier, I don't know but I'm open to anyone willing to do the same.
And chadwick, I don't think that everyone who believes in God is scared. But that fear is the reason the concept grew and maintains itself.
What I do think is that believers should be working day and night trying to prove god. They wouldn't be able to of course, since god doesn't exist, but I think it is their responsibility to try and to then admit defeat when they can't. I think that should be their number one responsibility if they expect everyone in the world to live with religion guiding politics, history, culture, behaviour, etc. It really pisses me off that religion (which for the most part is completely rolled up with their belief in god) still plays this HUGE roll in human society. It makes me feel like I am a victim of the belief in god (and like everyone in the world is). That really isn't fair. It makes me mad that children are brought into this world that raises them to be a part of this mass delusion.
no seriously
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
You are not a victim by any means, PJ (and again, please note the difference between belief in "god" and religion, though if one is peaceful I have no problem with either or neither). You are FREE to believe or discount anything you want. I expect nothing from those who believe in something (to whom should they prove god? and why? to whose benefit?), same as for those who decry that same something. And those like me who are somewhere in between. How can you demand that someone have the onus to prove to you or anyone else what they believe? It's personal to them, it's not about you.
As to admitting defeat...not sure what that means? It's not a competition.
sidenote...I can't imagine anyone having this shit all figured out. Somewhere in this thread I think was mentioned mystery (brianlux?), and that's kind of where I stand.
I fucking hate this love/hate thing I have with this topic
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
theres my 2 cents worth, im not willing to argue my point either, I know what I know...
What are you asking from Santa Claus this year?
I'm trying to figure out (seemingly a trend for me this morning!) what "their own kind" means in the context of the comment. And...no wise or disciplined men outside of Christianity? Perhaps that circle should be widened, JW?
(no innuendo intended-o!)
My take on the gender thing is that it's pretty much an even field. Thankfully, I've known men and women of integrity, faith and no faith, self-control, kindness...while at times reveling in the so-called deadly sins.
I'd toss myself into that group as well.
"define life."
time & everything in it: past, present & future unfoldings layered on top one another, string therory? life is more than a human can understand, this would be god
so 42^6 trillion suns would be god's eyeball
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce