Well, considering that Eddie had every right in the world to express his very valid and even verifiable opinion through song under the Constitution, and considering how much damage Bush's war did to America and the world, and considering how it all started on a bed of lies, I think it is actually fairly easy to say who was right in this particular case.
I think everyone agrees the war in Afghanistan was warranted however Iraq was always the one that people argued about. Some people thought we didn't belong there and others thought it was better to fight the terrorists five thousand miles away instead of here while taking out a pretty horrible leader. Both Eddie and W were protected under the constitutional to either go to war or record a song.
What? You're comparing going to war with recording or singing a song? Sorry, that just doesn't compute in this context. The point is that many of the misguided "patriots" at that show wanted to shut Eddie up, shut him down, and that does not represent patriotism in America if the Constitution and the belief in freedom has anything to do with it, which it does. As for everyone agreeing the war in Afghanistan was warranted... No, I don't think that's the case. I think there are plenty of people who would not agree with that. I personally did agree with it at the time, but in retrospect feel that it was a terrible mistake and literally EVERYTHING should have been done differently.
so four planes were hijacked and three were flown into buildings killings thousands and you wanted to respond how exactly?
Yes going to war and singing a song are both covered under the Constitution. Why are the people who were booing Eddie "misguided patriots"? They had a belief and didn't like Ed's opinion. They showed their disapproval by booing and even yelling out "play rock n'roll!!"; Ed even commented how this was good open discussion (or something like that). I don't recall anybody leaving the show but I do know that songs were omitted from the set list which resulted in the show ending early. So if anything, Ed couldn't handle the criticism, not the other way around.
Because he has the right to voice his opinion from the stage, but the fans don't have the right to voice their opinions from the floor. Duh.
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,723
What gets me is the "USA, USA" chant thing. It's hollow, thoughtless, war-like without a real cause and just fucking stupid.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
when you say it turned ugly you mean, like fights broke out or throwing things at the band?
I was there too 4th row dead center i didn't see any fights at all i just heard a bunch of assholes booing maybe some threw stuff Ed was pissed and they broke into KNOW YOUR RIGHTS by THE CLASH , that was the last show on Long Island you won't see them back here ever again Long Island is shit i can't wait to move out ...
when you say it turned ugly you mean, like fights broke out or throwing things at the band?
I was there too 4th row dead center i didn't see any fights at all i just heard a bunch of assholes booing maybe some threw stuff Ed was pissed and they broke into KNOW YOUR RIGHTS by THE CLASH , that was the last show on Long Island you won't see them back here ever again Long Island is shit i can't wait to move out ...
I don't recall anyone throwing anything at Ed (but I definitely could be wrong)....this isn't boston! lol
What gets me is the "USA, USA" chant thing. It's hollow, thoughtless, war-like without a real cause and just fucking stupid.
War-like? how so? It's a quick chant that gathers steam quickly.
it's a brainless rallying cry. i have always found it quite unintelligent. not just in the states. anyone that chants the name of their nation in solidarity of anything to me is bizarre and reminds me of something like what brian said.
this was an absolute killer of a setlist: 04/30/03 - Nassau Veterans Memorial Coliseum: Uniondale, NY support act: Sparta set: Long Road, Rearviewmirror, Animal, Save You, Get Right, I Am Mine, Corduroy, Present Tense, In Hiding, Even Flow, Elderly Woman, Jeremy, You Are, I Am A Patriot, Blood, Not For You, Better Man, Porch enc 1: Last Kiss, Thumbing My Way, Crazy Mary, Down, Do The Evolution, Daughter/(WMA), Alive
and then it went downhill lol. 'Smile,' 'Indifference' and 'Soldier Of Love' were on the setlist and not played.
I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,723
What gets me is the "USA, USA" chant thing. It's hollow, thoughtless, war-like without a real cause and just fucking stupid.
War-like? how so? It's a quick chant that gathers steam quickly.
That's how I hear it anyway, McG.
Think of it this way: What happens when a crowd begins to chant? For one thing, adrenaline starts pumping. The only purpose for adrenaline coursing through the body is to stimulate a flight or fight response. A crowd of people like that are definitely not in flight mode. They're picking for a fight. And when they are in fight mode and that hormone is flooding their system, they are not in a critical thinking mode, they are in an animal mode. They are reading to go in for the kill. And it's not even about survival. They don't really even know why they are doing it because they are temporarily out of their minds.
So you get a stadium full of people zoned out on fight hormones and that's about as war-like as it gets.
Post edited by brianlux on
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
What gets me is the "USA, USA" chant thing. It's hollow, thoughtless, war-like without a real cause and just fucking stupid.
War-like? how so? It's a quick chant that gathers steam quickly.
That's how I hear it anyway, McG.
Think of it this way: What happens when a crowd begins to chant? For one thing, adrenaline starts pumping. The only purpose for adrenaline coursing through the body is to stimulate a flight or fight response. A crowd of people like that are definitely not in flight mode. They're picking for a fight. And when they are in fight mode and that hormone is flooding their system, they are not in a critical thinking mode, they are in an animal mode. They are reading to go in for the kill. And it's not even about survival. They don't really even know why they are doing it because they are temporarily out of their minds.
So you get a stadium full of people zoned out on fight hormones and that's about as war-like as it gets.
Well, considering that Eddie had every right in the world to express his very valid and even verifiable opinion through song under the Constitution, and considering how much damage Bush's war did to America and the world, and considering how it all started on a bed of lies, I think it is actually fairly easy to say who was right in this particular case.
I think everyone agrees the war in Afghanistan was warranted however Iraq was always the one that people argued about. Some people thought we didn't belong there and others thought it was better to fight the terrorists five thousand miles away instead of here while taking out a pretty horrible leader. Both Eddie and W were protected under the constitutional to either go to war or record a song.
What? You're comparing going to war with recording or singing a song? Sorry, that just doesn't compute in this context. The point is that many of the misguided "patriots" at that show wanted to shut Eddie up, shut him down, and that does not represent patriotism in America if the Constitution and the belief in freedom has anything to do with it, which it does. As for everyone agreeing the war in Afghanistan was warranted... No, I don't think that's the case. I think there are plenty of people who would not agree with that. I personally did agree with it at the time, but in retrospect feel that it was a terrible mistake and literally EVERYTHING should have been done differently.
so four planes were hijacked and three were flown into buildings killings thousands and you wanted to respond how exactly?
Yes going to war and singing a song are both covered under the Constitution. Why are the people who were booing Eddie "misguided patriots"? They had a belief and didn't like Ed's opinion. They showed their disapproval by booing and even yelling out "play rock n'roll!!"; Ed even commented how this was good open discussion (or something like that). I don't recall anybody leaving the show but I do know that songs were omitted from the set list which resulted in the show ending early. So if anything, Ed couldn't handle the criticism, not the other way around.
Eddie handled it just fine. I personally think that yelling at someone to shut up and play music is an attempt and shutting them down.
I don't want to get into a discussion about how the 9/11 response could have been better handled, in retrospect, in this thread - it would be a complete derailment. Though I'm a bit surprised that anyone wouldn't agree that, in retrospect, it would have been better if done another way, even in terms of Afghanistan.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,723
What gets me is the "USA, USA" chant thing. It's hollow, thoughtless, war-like without a real cause and just fucking stupid.
War-like? how so? It's a quick chant that gathers steam quickly.
That's how I hear it anyway, McG.
Think of it this way: What happens when a crowd begins to chant? For one thing, adrenaline starts pumping. The only purpose for adrenaline coursing through the body is to stimulate a flight or fight response. A crowd of people like that are definitely not in flight mode. They're picking for a fight. And when they are in fight mode and that hormone is flooding their system, they are not in a critical thinking mode, they are in an animal mode. They are reading to go in for the kill. And it's not even about survival. They don't really even know why they are doing it because they are temporarily out of their minds.
So you get a stadium full of people zoned out on fight hormones and that's about as war-like as it gets.
I never thought of it that way, good points Bri.
That's why I don't feel too bad about not having been to a pro football game before. All those people, all that adrenaline AND massive amounts of beer? Amazing more shit doesn't happen at those types of games-
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
What gets me is the "USA, USA" chant thing. It's hollow, thoughtless, war-like without a real cause and just fucking stupid.
War-like? how so? It's a quick chant that gathers steam quickly.
it's a brainless rallying cry. i have always found it quite unintelligent. not just in the states. anyone that chants the name of their nation in solidarity of anything to me is bizarre and reminds me of something like what brian said.
I agree. I think most non-Americans find it quite unsettling and icky. There is something quite aggressive and barbaric and mindless about it.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
What gets me is the "USA, USA" chant thing. It's hollow, thoughtless, war-like without a real cause and just fucking stupid.
War-like? how so? It's a quick chant that gathers steam quickly.
it's a brainless rallying cry. i have always found it quite unintelligent. not just in the states. anyone that chants the name of their nation in solidarity of anything to me is bizarre and reminds me of something like what brian said.
I agree. I think most non-Americans find it quite unsettling and icky. There is something quite aggressive and barbaric and mindless about it.
It encourages mob mentality. I can't think of any context where it makes sense in our current free world existence. The only time it is ever used is as a response when an American is making a statement that doesn't 100% support the military or when some blow hard is preaching an inflated ideal that this country is the greatest ever.
What gets me is the "USA, USA" chant thing. It's hollow, thoughtless, war-like without a real cause and just fucking stupid.
War-like? how so? It's a quick chant that gathers steam quickly.
That's how I hear it anyway, McG.
Think of it this way: What happens when a crowd begins to chant? For one thing, adrenaline starts pumping. The only purpose for adrenaline coursing through the body is to stimulate a flight or fight response. A crowd of people like that are definitely not in flight mode. They're picking for a fight. And when they are in fight mode and that hormone is flooding their system, they are not in a critical thinking mode, they are in an animal mode. They are reading to go in for the kill. And it's not even about survival. They don't really even know why they are doing it because they are temporarily out of their minds.
So you get a stadium full of people zoned out on fight hormones and that's about as war-like as it gets.
I never thought of it that way, good points Bri.
That's why I don't feel too bad about not having been to a pro football game before. All those people, all that adrenaline AND massive amounts of beer? Amazing more shit doesn't happen at those types of games-
People def were ramped up for war after 9/11 I almost got into a weird situation that night I was wearing my gray getright shirt the shirt writing was Arabic looking , when I walked into arena that night some idiot started yelling at me about my shirt i was glad my friend was with me I had to tell the idiot it was a PJ shirt ...
Just like any chant it brings people together. Before the Foo Fighters encore at the show I was at everyone chanted “foo fighters” because that’s what was on peoples minds, idk, chants don’t bother me at all. Neither does Eddie being political. Eddie did something, people didn’t like it. They changed for 5 seconds, and life went on.
What gets me is the "USA, USA" chant thing. It's hollow, thoughtless, war-like without a real cause and just fucking stupid.
War-like? how so? It's a quick chant that gathers steam quickly.
it's a brainless rallying cry. i have always found it quite unintelligent. not just in the states. anyone that chants the name of their nation in solidarity of anything to me is bizarre and reminds me of something like what brian said.
I agree. I think most non-Americans find it quite unsettling and icky. There is something quite aggressive and barbaric and mindless about it.
It encourages mob mentality. I can't think of any context where it makes sense in our current free world existence. The only time it is ever used is as a response when an American is making a statement that doesn't 100% support the military or when some blow hard is preaching an inflated ideal that this country is the greatest ever.
i remember when i watched wrestling in the 80's, most of the 'bad guys' were foreigners, iraqi, russian, etc. the 'good guy' would inevitably start or encourage a chant of USA USA USA. i always found it humorous. until i would see people in the crowd actually spit on the 'bad guy' , little did they realize (fucking idiots) he was a character and he was actually born in new york. then i saw people doing it in real life at rallies and shit. very unsettling. it almost seems to come from a place of anger, not pride.
What gets me is the "USA, USA" chant thing. It's hollow, thoughtless, war-like without a real cause and just fucking stupid.
War-like? how so? It's a quick chant that gathers steam quickly.
it's a brainless rallying cry. i have always found it quite unintelligent. not just in the states. anyone that chants the name of their nation in solidarity of anything to me is bizarre and reminds me of something like what brian said.
I agree. I think most non-Americans find it quite unsettling and icky. There is something quite aggressive and barbaric and mindless about it.
It encourages mob mentality. I can't think of any context where it makes sense in our current free world existence. The only time it is ever used is as a response when an American is making a statement that doesn't 100% support the military or when some blow hard is preaching an inflated ideal that this country is the greatest ever.
i remember when i watched wrestling in the 80's, most of the 'bad guys' were foreigners, iraqi, russian, etc. the 'good guy' would inevitably start or encourage a chant of USA USA USA. i always found it humorous. until i would see people in the crowd actually spit on the 'bad guy' , little did they realize (fucking idiots) he was a character and he was actually born in new york. then i saw people doing it in real life at rallies and shit. very unsettling. it almost seems to come from a place of anger, not pride.
Oh yeah, it does! People love to blame their troubles on the "other" and rally together as a mob.
Well, considering that Eddie had every right in the world to express his very valid and even verifiable opinion through song under the Constitution, and considering how much damage Bush's war did to America and the world, and considering how it all started on a bed of lies, I think it is actually fairly easy to say who was right in this particular case.
I think everyone agrees the war in Afghanistan was warranted however Iraq was always the one that people argued about. Some people thought we didn't belong there and others thought it was better to fight the terrorists five thousand miles away instead of here while taking out a pretty horrible leader. I'm not sure how Bush's war did damage to the world but the overall lesson is, don't mess with the United States.
It's been 15 years so my memory isn't perfect. Correct me on what I get wrong. I agree with the Afgahn war, I don't think you could find 2 people in the whole country who didn't want to go to water after 9/11. What my memory isn't clear on is the Iraq war. The claims of WMD turned out to not be true I agree. What I don't remember is why was that Bush's fault? Wasn't it just bad info? Didn't he go to war thinking there was WMDs, and his department had bad intel? And I personally don't blame it all on bad intel. Wasn't the UN trying to do an inspection and they were denied? Therefore even further assuming their [bad] intel was accurate? This could have been avoided if Iraq cooperated with the UN for a WMD inspection. Wasn't Saddam a tyrant who murdered thousands, even tens or hundreds of thousands of his own people for political reasons? It didn't seem like a stretch that he could have WMDs he was willing to use, and to not cooperate with an inspection would all but confirm that to me. I can;t recall any evidence that this WMD thing was made up for the sole purpose to pursue a war in Iraq, possibly further his father's legacy. There's a difference between bad intel and Iraq refusing to cooperate, and forging fake evidence to start a war. I don't think Bush was a great president. But it just seems like history is writing him down to be a lot worse than he was, as some sort of war hungry modern-day tyrant who intentionally started a war to have his name in history, or revenge his father, depending on who you ask.
I didn't want to go to war after 9/11 and I bet there is at least one more in this thread. Those who think the proper response was killing a million innocent people needs their head examined imo.
What gets me is the "USA, USA" chant thing. It's hollow, thoughtless, war-like without a real cause and just fucking stupid.
War-like? how so? It's a quick chant that gathers steam quickly.
it's a brainless rallying cry. i have always found it quite unintelligent. not just in the states. anyone that chants the name of their nation in solidarity of anything to me is bizarre and reminds me of something like what brian said.
I agree. I think most non-Americans find it quite unsettling and icky. There is something quite aggressive and barbaric and mindless about it.
What about the Eddie chants that happen at almost every show or the Ole' chants and all the other ones that seem to be a constant at South American shows?
Why attack Afghanistan? Yah... I know of the 'training grounds' pitch... but I'm not buying it.
And then why attack Iraq? Yah... I know of the 'weapons of mass destruction' pitch... but that was proven to be unequivocally false (a massive lie).
The motives were sinister and criminal. Leaders have been imprisoned for less.
Afghanistan was the training grounds, the location of al qaeda and the taliban, as well as where the master mind of 9/11 was located.
Iraq was a cluster fuck in my opinion but like I said in previous posts I respect that fact that we tried to bring democracy to the country.
Saudia Arabia....yeah definite head scratcher Del. We should have went there but ya know, oil and stuff lol.
Okay.
I thought this little bit was plain as day. My point being: why are people like Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld not brought to charges? The war on terror was clearly misplaced. For all intents and purposes... they could have sold 'Canada' to a public that just needed any country to put in their sights.
These assholes protected their Saudi friends. They knew an ounce of flesh was necessary- the US public would have no less- but Saudi Arabia was off limits given the trade agreements in place so they invaded Afghanistan and then Iraq under false pretenses (any brown will do!).
Cheney relaxes with his millions and nary a peep from the US public who are victims of fraud (let alone all the innocent lives taken abroad and all the soldiers dying or maimed).
Why attack Afghanistan? Yah... I know of the 'training grounds' pitch... but I'm not buying it.
And then why attack Iraq? Yah... I know of the 'weapons of mass destruction' pitch... but that was proven to be unequivocally false (a massive lie).
The motives were sinister and criminal. Leaders have been imprisoned for less.
Afghanistan was the training grounds, the location of al qaeda and the taliban, as well as where the master mind of 9/11 was located.
Iraq was a cluster fuck in my opinion but like I said in previous posts I respect that fact that we tried to bring democracy to the country.
Saudia Arabia....yeah definite head scratcher Del. We should have went there but ya know, oil and stuff lol.
Okay.
I thought this little bit was plain as day. My point being: why are people like Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld not brought to charges? The war on terror was clearly misplaced. For all intents and purposes... they could have sold 'Canada' to a public that just needed any country to put in their sights.
These assholes protected their Saudi friends. They knew an ounce of flesh was necessary- the US public would have no less- but Saudi Arabia was off limits given the trade agreements in place so they invaded Afghanistan and then Iraq under false pretenses (any brown will do!).
Cheney relaxes with his millions and nary a peep from the US public who are victims of fraud (let alone all the innocent lives taken abroad and all the soldiers dying or maimed).
How the f**k does that happen?
Fear. 9/11 sucked. At least here in New Jersey and New York people were scared as hell. At first these blue states seemed to be supporting W and his crew but then things turned after Iraq. I still think Afghanistan was the right call but Iraq was not.
I have no clue why they weren't brought up on charges but they definitely should have been.
It s ironic that I just brought up to my class how Hitler and the burning of the reichstag could have been so similiar to 9/11.
Comments
I don't recall anyone throwing anything at Ed (but I definitely could be wrong)....this isn't boston! lol
www.headstonesband.com
Halts maul everyone.
04/30/03 - Nassau Veterans Memorial Coliseum: Uniondale, NY
support act: Sparta
set: Long Road, Rearviewmirror, Animal, Save You, Get Right, I Am Mine, Corduroy, Present Tense, In Hiding, Even Flow, Elderly Woman, Jeremy, You Are, I Am A Patriot, Blood, Not For You, Better Man, Porch
enc 1: Last Kiss, Thumbing My Way, Crazy Mary, Down, Do The Evolution, Daughter/(WMA), Alive
and then it went downhill lol. 'Smile,' 'Indifference' and 'Soldier Of Love' were on the setlist and not played.
Think of it this way: What happens when a crowd begins to chant? For one thing, adrenaline starts pumping. The only purpose for adrenaline coursing through the body is to stimulate a flight or fight response. A crowd of people like that are definitely not in flight mode. They're picking for a fight. And when they are in fight mode and that hormone is flooding their system, they are not in a critical thinking mode, they are in an animal mode. They are reading to go in for the kill. And it's not even about survival. They don't really even know why they are doing it because they are temporarily out of their minds.
So you get a stadium full of people zoned out on fight hormones and that's about as war-like as it gets.
I personally think that yelling at someone to shut up and play music is an attempt and shutting them down.
I don't want to get into a discussion about how the 9/11 response could have been better handled, in retrospect, in this thread - it would be a complete derailment. Though I'm a bit surprised that anyone wouldn't agree that, in retrospect, it would have been better if done another way, even in terms of Afghanistan.
www.headstonesband.com
People love to blame their troubles on the "other" and rally together as a mob.
9-11 attackers were Saudi Arabian.
Why attack Afghanistan? Yah... I know of the 'training grounds' pitch... but I'm not buying it.
And then why attack Iraq? Yah... I know of the 'weapons of mass destruction' pitch... but that was proven to be unequivocally false (a massive lie).
The motives were sinister and criminal. Leaders have been imprisoned for less.
Iraq was a cluster fuck in my opinion but like I said in previous posts I respect that fact that we tried to bring democracy to the country.
Saudia Arabia....yeah definite head scratcher Del. We should have went there but ya know, oil and stuff lol.
Columbus-2003
Cincinnati-2006
Columbus-2010
Wrigley-2013
Cincinnati-2014
Lexington-2016
Wrigley 1 & 2-2018
Okay.
I thought this little bit was plain as day. My point being: why are people like Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld not brought to charges? The war on terror was clearly misplaced. For all intents and purposes... they could have sold 'Canada' to a public that just needed any country to put in their sights.
These assholes protected their Saudi friends. They knew an ounce of flesh was necessary- the US public would have no less- but Saudi Arabia was off limits given the trade agreements in place so they invaded Afghanistan and then Iraq under false pretenses (any brown will do!).
Cheney relaxes with his millions and nary a peep from the US public who are victims of fraud (let alone all the innocent lives taken abroad and all the soldiers dying or maimed).
How the f**k does that happen?
I have no clue why they weren't brought up on charges but they definitely should have been.
It s ironic that I just brought up to my class how Hitler and the burning of the reichstag could have been so similiar to 9/11.