What gets me is the "USA, USA" chant thing. It's hollow, thoughtless, war-like without a real cause and just fucking stupid.
War-like? how so? It's a quick chant that gathers steam quickly.
it's a brainless rallying cry. i have always found it quite unintelligent. not just in the states. anyone that chants the name of their nation in solidarity of anything to me is bizarre and reminds me of something like what brian said.
I agree. I think most non-Americans find it quite unsettling and icky. There is something quite aggressive and barbaric and mindless about it.
What about the Eddie chants that happen at almost every show or the Ole' chants and all the other ones that seem to be a constant at South American shows?
chanting the name of an entertainer or sports hero or whomever is a bit different than chanting the name of your country you hold blind allegiance to. I'm sure those same people have chanted the name of any other untold amount of entertainers, not just the one. an american wouldn't be caught dead chanting "Sweden! Sweden!" when they were playing hockey against Canada.
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
What gets me is the "USA, USA" chant thing. It's hollow, thoughtless, war-like without a real cause and just fucking stupid.
War-like? how so? It's a quick chant that gathers steam quickly.
it's a brainless rallying cry. i have always found it quite unintelligent. not just in the states. anyone that chants the name of their nation in solidarity of anything to me is bizarre and reminds me of something like what brian said.
I agree. I think most non-Americans find it quite unsettling and icky. There is something quite aggressive and barbaric and mindless about it.
What about the Eddie chants that happen at almost every show or the Ole' chants and all the other ones that seem to be a constant at South American shows?
chanting the name of an entertainer or sports hero or whomever is a bit different than chanting the name of your country you hold blind allegiance to. I'm sure those same people have chanted the name of any other untold amount of entertainers, not just the one. an american wouldn't be caught dead chanting "Sweden! Sweden!" when they were playing hockey against Canada.
My response was more towards the comments on NFL games and wrestling and how it fuels testosterone and the pack mentality. This clearly does not only happen in the US. Just look at European soccer.
I also feel like the USA! chant has become like yelling "free bird" at a concert.
What gets me is the "USA, USA" chant thing. It's hollow, thoughtless, war-like without a real cause and just fucking stupid.
War-like? how so? It's a quick chant that gathers steam quickly.
it's a brainless rallying cry. i have always found it quite unintelligent. not just in the states. anyone that chants the name of their nation in solidarity of anything to me is bizarre and reminds me of something like what brian said.
I agree. I think most non-Americans find it quite unsettling and icky. There is something quite aggressive and barbaric and mindless about it.
What about the Eddie chants that happen at almost every show or the Ole' chants and all the other ones that seem to be a constant at South American shows?
chanting the name of an entertainer or sports hero or whomever is a bit different than chanting the name of your country you hold blind allegiance to. I'm sure those same people have chanted the name of any other untold amount of entertainers, not just the one. an american wouldn't be caught dead chanting "Sweden! Sweden!" when they were playing hockey against Canada.
My response was more towards the comments on NFL games and wrestling and how it fuels testosterone and the pack mentality. This clearly does not only happen in the US. Just look at European soccer.
I also feel like the USA! chant has become like yelling "free bird" at a concert.
true, but I feel that people in the US are chanting as a political phrase, whereas at european soccer, it is allegiance to a sports team.
I would NEVER go to a soccer game in europe. My wife went in the 90's, and she said it was absolute bedlam and she was legitimately afraid.
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
I don't see what is wrong with the "USA" chant. Chants are usually spontaneous and require hundreds of people to join in. That often can't work if they are more than a few words. Unless it is more organized or something pre-learned, almost all chants I've seen or heard follow that sample. What "patriotic" chant would others here suggest that could be learned on the spot in an instant with hundreds of people? I can't think of any.
when you say it turned ugly you mean, like fights broke out or throwing things at the band?
The crowd turned on him real quick. People were screaming "fuck you" and giving him the finger. It got really tense in my section; it felt like a fight could break out in any moment. The walk out was interesting too, people yelling how Ed was a douche, he should stick to music and just play rock n roll, people paid for music not politics...others defended him. It was a really decisive moment for the band and the country.
This 2003 tour was definitely crazy; the most upset I ever was at a pearl jam show was at Hershey not at Uniondale. Ed said some pretty fucked up shit that night.
okay. Now you have to explain. What did he say that night?
Wow, never heard that before. Kinda of surprises me that he would make fun of a girl for her chest size. I know he was calling her out for flashing which I guess he didn't appreciate, but seemed like a little too far to call her out like that. Especially for that this band stands for.
when you say it turned ugly you mean, like fights broke out or throwing things at the band?
The crowd turned on him real quick. People were screaming "fuck you" and giving him the finger. It got really tense in my section; it felt like a fight could break out in any moment. The walk out was interesting too, people yelling how Ed was a douche, he should stick to music and just play rock n roll, people paid for music not politics...others defended him. It was a really decisive moment for the band and the country.
This 2003 tour was definitely crazy; the most upset I ever was at a pearl jam show was at Hershey not at Uniondale. Ed said some pretty fucked up shit that night.
okay. Now you have to explain. What did he say that night?
Wow, never heard that before. Kinda of surprises me that he would make fun of a girl for her chest size. I know he was calling her out for flashing which I guess he didn't appreciate, but seemed like a little too far to call her out like that. Especially for that this band stands for.
I thought the same thing too, but when you think about it, he was shaming her for that type of behaviour. I think he was probably insulted that this woman thought they were the kind of band that would appreciate/encourage that, like Motley Crue. i think he was probably personally offended.
Shaming someone for their looks/features is always in poor taste, so I can't say I can defend that. I wouldn't be surprised if he regrets saying it, given, as you said, what he/they stand for.
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,319
I'm blown away by Mike's guitar tone at the beginning of the Uniondale version Thoughts posted. Fantastic!
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
It sounded like he regretted it almost right away and tried to make a joke by making that weird left turn into crapping on little girls, but it was just weird and uncomfortable, not funny. I did like his comment about getting an education and voting instead though. Could have just said that and nothing else.
It sounded like he regretted it almost right away and tried to make a joke by making that weird left turn into crapping on little girls, but it was just weird and uncomfortable, not funny. I did like his comment about getting an education and voting instead though. Could have just said that and nothing else.
Yeah it was the shitting on girls heads that resonated with me. I had experienced angry ed many times live but nothing like that.
To his credit, if I played 900+(?) shows attended by thousands for weeks at a time away from home, if you could only find a dozen really creepy/weird/mean things I said and regretted I'd be impressed with myself.
I don't see what is wrong with the "USA" chant. Chants are usually spontaneous and require hundreds of people to join in. That often can't work if they are more than a few words. Unless it is more organized or something pre-learned, almost all chants I've seen or heard follow that sample. What "patriotic" chant would others here suggest that could be learned on the spot in an instant with hundreds of people? I can't think of any.
How about we dispense with such childish things?
I'm not sure if the point has been mentioned that the USA is usually done for antagonistic reasons. It's not usually a statement of "I'm proud of our country's actions and what we represent", it's usually more akin to "I disagree with you vehemently and I'm going to drown out your voice with something you can't argue with".
They booed because Eddie spoke his views in a very disrespectful way. They could have played the song and said a few words, but I think the GW mask was over the top and very disrespectful when considering they were playing NYC where the wounds were still raw. THey deserved to be booed not because they were wrong (they were right), but in the disrespectful way they presented their views.
when you say it turned ugly you mean, like fights broke out or throwing things at the band?
The crowd turned on him real quick. People were screaming "fuck you" and giving him the finger. It got really tense in my section; it felt like a fight could break out in any moment. The walk out was interesting too, people yelling how Ed was a douche, he should stick to music and just play rock n roll, people paid for music not politics...others defended him. It was a really decisive moment for the band and the country.
This 2003 tour was definitely crazy; the most upset I ever was at a pearl jam show was at Hershey not at Uniondale. Ed said some pretty fucked up shit that night.
okay. Now you have to explain. What did he say that night?
Wow, never heard that before. Kinda of surprises me that he would make fun of a girl for her chest size. I know he was calling her out for flashing which I guess he didn't appreciate, but seemed like a little too far to call her out like that. Especially for that this band stands for.
I don't see what is wrong with the "USA" chant. Chants are usually spontaneous and require hundreds of people to join in. That often can't work if they are more than a few words. Unless it is more organized or something pre-learned, almost all chants I've seen or heard follow that sample. What "patriotic" chant would others here suggest that could be learned on the spot in an instant with hundreds of people? I can't think of any.
How about we dispense with such childish things?
I'm not sure if the point has been mentioned that the USA is usually done for antagonistic reasons. It's not usually a statement of "I'm proud of our country's actions and what we represent", it's usually more akin to "I disagree with you vehemently and I'm going to drown out your voice with something you can't argue with".
Maybe. My only experiences I can recall are times like at an air show when the Blue Angels are doing their stunts or something like that. Or maybe if I'm at a bar/happy hour when a big olympic game is on and team USA pulls out a win, or a big firework display on the 4th of July. Sometimes its even out of sarcasm or just to be funny. Thats been my experience anyway. So I have different ideas on what it means or why people say it. My go to chant used to be (okay, sometimes still is) "Rudy, Rudy, Rudy!" 20 years ago people got it, now they just look at me weird.
They booed because Eddie spoke his views in a very disrespectful way. They could have played the song and said a few words, but I think the GW mask was over the top and very disrespectful when considering they were playing NYC where the wounds were still raw. THey deserved to be booed not because they were wrong (they were right), but in the disrespectful way they presented their views.
interesting. I don't see how it was disrespectful with the W mask. I mean, it was still raw? it was 2 years later, not like it was the week after or a month. I understand the gravity of the event and 2 years may not seem like that long, but he was mocking the president for invading a country over false pretenses, not addressing 9/11 directly.
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
I was poor as hell and couldn't afford to go to shows in 03. But the most boots I own are from that tour. The band was definitely firing on all cylinders.
will myself to find a home, a home within myself we will find a way, we will find our place
They booed because Eddie spoke his views in a very disrespectful way. They could have played the song and said a few words, but I think the GW mask was over the top and very disrespectful when considering they were playing NYC where the wounds were still raw. THey deserved to be booed not because they were wrong (they were right), but in the disrespectful way they presented their views.
So talk nicely about GW? Because he's the president and all?
He got booed by a bunch of people who blindly followed their leader just as they blindly followed their faith.
He was a turd. An imbecile who was responsible for countless innocent lives. He got more respect than he deserved that night.
Just like any chant it brings people together. Before the Foo Fighters encore at the show I was at everyone chanted “foo fighters” because that’s what was on peoples minds, idk, chants don’t bother me at all. Neither does Eddie being political. Eddie did something, people didn’t like it. They changed for 5 seconds, and life went on.
The USA chant and a Foo Fighters chant isn't comparable in any way, shape, or form. General "chant" isn't the issue. It's the specific U-S-A! chant and the meaning behind it specifically that is troubling to many.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
What gets me is the "USA, USA" chant thing. It's hollow, thoughtless, war-like without a real cause and just fucking stupid.
War-like? how so? It's a quick chant that gathers steam quickly.
it's a brainless rallying cry. i have always found it quite unintelligent. not just in the states. anyone that chants the name of their nation in solidarity of anything to me is bizarre and reminds me of something like what brian said.
I agree. I think most non-Americans find it quite unsettling and icky. There is something quite aggressive and barbaric and mindless about it.
What about the Eddie chants that happen at almost every show or the Ole' chants and all the other ones that seem to be a constant at South American shows?
Context is everything man. You do understand that not all chants are equal, right??
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
What gets me is the "USA, USA" chant thing. It's hollow, thoughtless, war-like without a real cause and just fucking stupid.
War-like? how so? It's a quick chant that gathers steam quickly.
it's a brainless rallying cry. i have always found it quite unintelligent. not just in the states. anyone that chants the name of their nation in solidarity of anything to me is bizarre and reminds me of something like what brian said.
I agree. I think most non-Americans find it quite unsettling and icky. There is something quite aggressive and barbaric and mindless about it.
What about the Eddie chants that happen at almost every show or the Ole' chants and all the other ones that seem to be a constant at South American shows?
chanting the name of an entertainer or sports hero or whomever is a bit different than chanting the name of your country you hold blind allegiance to. I'm sure those same people have chanted the name of any other untold amount of entertainers, not just the one. an american wouldn't be caught dead chanting "Sweden! Sweden!" when they were playing hockey against Canada.
My response was more towards the comments on NFL games and wrestling and how it fuels testosterone and the pack mentality. This clearly does not only happen in the US. Just look at European soccer.
I also feel like the USA! chant has become like yelling "free bird" at a concert.
Well, when I see shit on the news like mobs of people running out onto the streets, almost all men, to chant USA with their fist pumping because American soldiers or law enforcement killed someone or whatever, I don't take that the same as someone yelling free bird at a concert, lol. One is a weird, pompous, aggro chest thumping (from people who are actually doing nothing and usually barely know anything about what they're getting all nationalistic over, and the other is something completely different. I disagree that the USA chant is completely innocuous. As for sporting events and mob behaviour at those ... well yeah, there is mob behaviour at a lot of sporting events in many places. But in America, especially with football, the NFL is very specifically and purposefully being used as a propaganda vehicle by the US government/military to bolster blind patriotism, so yeah, there is more going on at American football games than just innocent cheering for teams IMO.
FWIW, the behaviour is completely alienating. I think it's fair to say that most people across the rest of the world see that behaviour and it naturally lowers their opinion of Americans just a bit more every time it happens. I know, I know, a lot of Americans don't give a shit what the rest of the world thinks. I'm just saying it's not a good "look". I'm not saying this to just completely trash Americans btw. I like a lot of things about many American people and America has a lot to offer. But there are some real issues that one can hardly pretend don't exist.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
It sounded like he regretted it almost right away and tried to make a joke by making that weird left turn into crapping on little girls, but it was just weird and uncomfortable, not funny. I did like his comment about getting an education and voting instead though. Could have just said that and nothing else.
Yeah it was the shitting on girls heads that resonated with me. I had experienced angry ed many times live but nothing like that.
I must be the only person in the world who wasn't bothered by this in the slightest.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I don't see what is wrong with the "USA" chant. Chants are usually spontaneous and require hundreds of people to join in. That often can't work if they are more than a few words. Unless it is more organized or something pre-learned, almost all chants I've seen or heard follow that sample. What "patriotic" chant would others here suggest that could be learned on the spot in an instant with hundreds of people? I can't think of any.
How about we dispense with such childish things?
I'm not sure if the point has been mentioned that the USA is usually done for antagonistic reasons. It's not usually a statement of "I'm proud of our country's actions and what we represent", it's usually more akin to "I disagree with you vehemently and I'm going to drown out your voice with something you can't argue with".
I could be wrong, but I think the usa chant probably had its origins from the 1980 olympic hockey team. And in the context of sports, any kind of chanting/organized cheer is appropriate. Outside of that context it can come across as aggressive. Sports in general are how we’ve civilized our need for tribalism and it’s an outlet for our old aggression buried by evolution. Of course there’s always a few ay holes at the game that go too far with it.
And that was one of the happiest days of my young life.
One of the happiest days of your life was spent watching other people engage in meaningless pursuits? That makes me sad.
I hope you're not serious.
When I hear the U-S-A chant I think of Bush's mission accomplished speech, a bunch of drunk men in Boston crowding on the streets to celebrate after that Boston Marathon lock down was over, and a bunch of men doing the same when Saddam was captured and when Obama said "we got him".
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
And that was one of the happiest days of my young life.
One of the happiest days of your life was spent watching other people engage in meaningless pursuits? That makes me sad.
This was hardly a mealiness pursuit considering the political climate between the USA and Soviet Union at the time and the 1980 summer Olympic boycott.
And that was one of the happiest days of my young life.
One of the happiest days of your life was spent watching other people engage in meaningless pursuits? That makes me sad.
This was hardly a mealiness pursuit considering the political climate between the USA and Soviet Union at the time and the 1980 summer Olympic boycott.
Hockey is a meaningless pursuit. You can attach all the emotional significance in the world to a sports game and it's still just a sports game. It's an avatar at best.
Comments
-EV 8/14/93
I also feel like the USA! chant has become like yelling "free bird" at a concert.
Columbus-2003
Cincinnati-2006
Columbus-2010
Wrigley-2013
Cincinnati-2014
Lexington-2016
Wrigley 1 & 2-2018
I would NEVER go to a soccer game in europe. My wife went in the 90's, and she said it was absolute bedlam and she was legitimately afraid.
-EV 8/14/93
The poison from the poison stream caught up to you ELEVEN years ago and you floated out of here. Sept. 14, 08
Chants are usually spontaneous and require hundreds of people to join in. That often can't work if they are more than a few words.
Unless it is more organized or something pre-learned, almost all chants I've seen or heard follow that sample.
What "patriotic" chant would others here suggest that could be learned on the spot in an instant with hundreds of people?
I can't think of any.
Kinda of surprises me that he would make fun of a girl for her chest size. I know he was calling her out for flashing which I guess he didn't appreciate, but seemed like a little too far to call her out like that. Especially for that this band stands for.
Shaming someone for their looks/features is always in poor taste, so I can't say I can defend that. I wouldn't be surprised if he regrets saying it, given, as you said, what he/they stand for.
-EV 8/14/93
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
I did like his comment about getting an education and voting instead though. Could have just said that and nothing else.
I'm not sure if the point has been mentioned that the USA is usually done for antagonistic reasons.
It's not usually a statement of "I'm proud of our country's actions and what we represent", it's usually more akin to "I disagree with you vehemently and I'm going to drown out your voice with something you can't argue with".
My go to chant used to be (okay, sometimes still is) "Rudy, Rudy, Rudy!" 20 years ago people got it, now they just look at me weird.
-EV 8/14/93
we will find a way, we will find our place
He got booed by a bunch of people who blindly followed their leader just as they blindly followed their faith.
He was a turd. An imbecile who was responsible for countless innocent lives. He got more respect than he deserved that night.
FWIW, the behaviour is completely alienating. I think it's fair to say that most people across the rest of the world see that behaviour and it naturally lowers their opinion of Americans just a bit more every time it happens. I know, I know, a lot of Americans don't give a shit what the rest of the world thinks. I'm just saying it's not a good "look". I'm not saying this to just completely trash Americans btw. I like a lot of things about many American people and America has a lot to offer. But there are some real issues that one can hardly pretend don't exist.
Columbus-2003
Cincinnati-2006
Columbus-2010
Wrigley-2013
Cincinnati-2014
Lexington-2016
Wrigley 1 & 2-2018
And that was one of the happiest days of my young life.
That makes me sad.
When I hear the U-S-A chant I think of Bush's mission accomplished speech, a bunch of drunk men in Boston crowding on the streets to celebrate after that Boston Marathon lock down was over, and a bunch of men doing the same when Saddam was captured and when Obama said "we got him".
Columbus-2003
Cincinnati-2006
Columbus-2010
Wrigley-2013
Cincinnati-2014
Lexington-2016
Wrigley 1 & 2-2018