I don't believe in God

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  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom'sPosts: 7,847
    I don't know that I would call churches corrupt....but I do remember thinking it was odd and fake to dress up real nice on Sunday mornings to go to church.

    Glad I stopped going....really fucking boring
    Remember the Thomas Nine!! (10/02/2018)

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  • OnWis97OnWis97 St. Paul, MNPosts: 1,041
    brianlux said:
    OnWis97 said:
    brianlux said:
    rgambs said:
    Infuriating.
    I'd really like to post this to FB and tag my Catholic in laws.
    My mum thinks I am bad because I don't go to church. She's too far brainwashed to reason with.
    I don't believe in God nor particularly disbelieve in God, but if there is a God, I find that I would honor that God by not going to church  more than by going to church would.  The reason I say that is because if there is a God, then I assume it is that entity which created the earth, the moon, the planets, the stars and the universe and attending and supporting an institution that does not honor and protect that creation above all else would feel hypocritical to me.  That, and I'm just not that invested in mythology.
    So you believe something with as little evidence as the religious have.  I'm not saying that to rip you...I'm saying that because the religious sometimes like to say that some of us are not religious because "you have no faith."  But we do.  For example, I too am an agnostic (is there a god?  I don't know) but I do have faith in the following: Whatever is or is not "up there" I believe with all my being that you do not spend an eternity in hell simply for "being wrong."  I can't prove it.  It's faith.  You too have faith, as stated in your assumption.  Of course, many would say that our faith is wrong and their faith is right.
    I'm a bit confused here, OnWis. I didn't mean to imply about anything I believe.  I just meant to say that IF there is a God, then by the way most people describe God it must be that entity that created the universe.  But I still think the creation of the universe is an unsolved mystery.  I don't have any kind of faith or belief in how it was created.  I only have the commitment of belief that we would do well to take as a  good a care as possible of the place we were given to exist on- planet Earth.  Do I think that is right?  Oh heck yeah!  And do I think that most religious institutions do not prioritize that caring and is that wrong?  Hell yes.
    Maybe I was just looking for an "in" to make the point I like to make when someone accuses me of having no faith, which is that I do (i.e., that I'm not going to hell for being wrong).  I was looking at "I find that I would honor that God by not going to church  more than by going to church would."  You don't know that any more than a churchgoer knows the opposite.  I'd kinda call that "faith."

    I just get sick of the "you don't have faith" used almost as a trump card during a theological discussion.  I'm not actually disagreeing with what you said...that statement just sort of made me think of this point about "faith" and how most people have some.  And I, too feel that the creation of the universe, etc. is a mystery.  But if it was created by a god, then I don't believe anyone's going to hell for not "knowing" all about that.
    1995 Milwaukee
    1998 Alpine, Alpine
    2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston
    2004 Boston, Boston
    2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty)
    2011 Alpine, Alpine
    2013 Wrigley
    2014 St. Paul
    2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley
    2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 24,768
    OnWis97 said:
    brianlux said:
    OnWis97 said:
    brianlux said:
    rgambs said:
    Infuriating.
    I'd really like to post this to FB and tag my Catholic in laws.
    My mum thinks I am bad because I don't go to church. She's too far brainwashed to reason with.
    I don't believe in God nor particularly disbelieve in God, but if there is a God, I find that I would honor that God by not going to church  more than by going to church would.  The reason I say that is because if there is a God, then I assume it is that entity which created the earth, the moon, the planets, the stars and the universe and attending and supporting an institution that does not honor and protect that creation above all else would feel hypocritical to me.  That, and I'm just not that invested in mythology.
    So you believe something with as little evidence as the religious have.  I'm not saying that to rip you...I'm saying that because the religious sometimes like to say that some of us are not religious because "you have no faith."  But we do.  For example, I too am an agnostic (is there a god?  I don't know) but I do have faith in the following: Whatever is or is not "up there" I believe with all my being that you do not spend an eternity in hell simply for "being wrong."  I can't prove it.  It's faith.  You too have faith, as stated in your assumption.  Of course, many would say that our faith is wrong and their faith is right.
    I'm a bit confused here, OnWis. I didn't mean to imply about anything I believe.  I just meant to say that IF there is a God, then by the way most people describe God it must be that entity that created the universe.  But I still think the creation of the universe is an unsolved mystery.  I don't have any kind of faith or belief in how it was created.  I only have the commitment of belief that we would do well to take as a  good a care as possible of the place we were given to exist on- planet Earth.  Do I think that is right?  Oh heck yeah!  And do I think that most religious institutions do not prioritize that caring and is that wrong?  Hell yes.
    Maybe I was just looking for an "in" to make the point I like to make when someone accuses me of having no faith, which is that I do (i.e., that I'm not going to hell for being wrong).  I was looking at "I find that I would honor that God by not going to church  more than by going to church would."  You don't know that any more than a churchgoer knows the opposite.  I'd kinda call that "faith."

    I just get sick of the "you don't have faith" used almost as a trump card during a theological discussion.  I'm not actually disagreeing with what you said...that statement just sort of made me think of this point about "faith" and how most people have some.  And I, too feel that the creation of the universe, etc. is a mystery.  But if it was created by a god, then I don't believe anyone's going to hell for not "knowing" all about that.
    I see- thanks for clarification, OnWis!

    I agree, no one has the right to say "you don't have faith" or "you're going to hell for not having this or that faith."  That's a total crock.   No one has the right to say what another person's faith or lack of faith is.  We can only speak to our own beliefs about the intangible. 

    As for going to hell, sometimes I feel like I'm getting that out of the way during this lifetime.  Thankfully, sometimes I also feel like I'm in heaven.  Almost as bad and sometimes worse than feeling like hell is the feeling of limbo, of purgatory, of lifelessness.  That is very much a state of dull anguish for me. 


    "Love and only love will break it down"
    -Neil Young
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.





  • OnWis97OnWis97 St. Paul, MNPosts: 1,041
    brianlux said:
    OnWis97 said:
    brianlux said:
    OnWis97 said:
    brianlux said:
    rgambs said:
    Infuriating.
    I'd really like to post this to FB and tag my Catholic in laws.
    My mum thinks I am bad because I don't go to church. She's too far brainwashed to reason with.
    I don't believe in God nor particularly disbelieve in God, but if there is a God, I find that I would honor that God by not going to church  more than by going to church would.  The reason I say that is because if there is a God, then I assume it is that entity which created the earth, the moon, the planets, the stars and the universe and attending and supporting an institution that does not honor and protect that creation above all else would feel hypocritical to me.  That, and I'm just not that invested in mythology.
    So you believe something with as little evidence as the religious have.  I'm not saying that to rip you...I'm saying that because the religious sometimes like to say that some of us are not religious because "you have no faith."  But we do.  For example, I too am an agnostic (is there a god?  I don't know) but I do have faith in the following: Whatever is or is not "up there" I believe with all my being that you do not spend an eternity in hell simply for "being wrong."  I can't prove it.  It's faith.  You too have faith, as stated in your assumption.  Of course, many would say that our faith is wrong and their faith is right.
    I'm a bit confused here, OnWis. I didn't mean to imply about anything I believe.  I just meant to say that IF there is a God, then by the way most people describe God it must be that entity that created the universe.  But I still think the creation of the universe is an unsolved mystery.  I don't have any kind of faith or belief in how it was created.  I only have the commitment of belief that we would do well to take as a  good a care as possible of the place we were given to exist on- planet Earth.  Do I think that is right?  Oh heck yeah!  And do I think that most religious institutions do not prioritize that caring and is that wrong?  Hell yes.
    Maybe I was just looking for an "in" to make the point I like to make when someone accuses me of having no faith, which is that I do (i.e., that I'm not going to hell for being wrong).  I was looking at "I find that I would honor that God by not going to church  more than by going to church would."  You don't know that any more than a churchgoer knows the opposite.  I'd kinda call that "faith."

    I just get sick of the "you don't have faith" used almost as a trump card during a theological discussion.  I'm not actually disagreeing with what you said...that statement just sort of made me think of this point about "faith" and how most people have some.  And I, too feel that the creation of the universe, etc. is a mystery.  But if it was created by a god, then I don't believe anyone's going to hell for not "knowing" all about that.
    I see- thanks for clarification, OnWis!

    I agree, no one has the right to say "you don't have faith" or "you're going to hell for not having this or that faith."  That's a total crock.   No one has the right to say what another person's faith or lack of faith is.  We can only speak to our own beliefs about the intangible. 

    As for going to hell, sometimes I feel like I'm getting that out of the way during this lifetime.  Thankfully, sometimes I also feel like I'm in heaven.  Almost as bad and sometimes worse than feeling like hell is the feeling of limbo, of purgatory, of lifelessness.  That is very much a state of dull anguish for me. 


    I plan to feel that way in Missoula, Wrigley, and Wrigley again.
    1995 Milwaukee
    1998 Alpine, Alpine
    2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston
    2004 Boston, Boston
    2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty)
    2011 Alpine, Alpine
    2013 Wrigley
    2014 St. Paul
    2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley
    2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 24,768
    OnWis97 said:
    brianlux said:
    OnWis97 said:
    brianlux said:
    OnWis97 said:
    brianlux said:
    rgambs said:
    Infuriating.
    I'd really like to post this to FB and tag my Catholic in laws.
    My mum thinks I am bad because I don't go to church. She's too far brainwashed to reason with.
    I don't believe in God nor particularly disbelieve in God, but if there is a God, I find that I would honor that God by not going to church  more than by going to church would.  The reason I say that is because if there is a God, then I assume it is that entity which created the earth, the moon, the planets, the stars and the universe and attending and supporting an institution that does not honor and protect that creation above all else would feel hypocritical to me.  That, and I'm just not that invested in mythology.
    So you believe something with as little evidence as the religious have.  I'm not saying that to rip you...I'm saying that because the religious sometimes like to say that some of us are not religious because "you have no faith."  But we do.  For example, I too am an agnostic (is there a god?  I don't know) but I do have faith in the following: Whatever is or is not "up there" I believe with all my being that you do not spend an eternity in hell simply for "being wrong."  I can't prove it.  It's faith.  You too have faith, as stated in your assumption.  Of course, many would say that our faith is wrong and their faith is right.
    I'm a bit confused here, OnWis. I didn't mean to imply about anything I believe.  I just meant to say that IF there is a God, then by the way most people describe God it must be that entity that created the universe.  But I still think the creation of the universe is an unsolved mystery.  I don't have any kind of faith or belief in how it was created.  I only have the commitment of belief that we would do well to take as a  good a care as possible of the place we were given to exist on- planet Earth.  Do I think that is right?  Oh heck yeah!  And do I think that most religious institutions do not prioritize that caring and is that wrong?  Hell yes.
    Maybe I was just looking for an "in" to make the point I like to make when someone accuses me of having no faith, which is that I do (i.e., that I'm not going to hell for being wrong).  I was looking at "I find that I would honor that God by not going to church  more than by going to church would."  You don't know that any more than a churchgoer knows the opposite.  I'd kinda call that "faith."

    I just get sick of the "you don't have faith" used almost as a trump card during a theological discussion.  I'm not actually disagreeing with what you said...that statement just sort of made me think of this point about "faith" and how most people have some.  And I, too feel that the creation of the universe, etc. is a mystery.  But if it was created by a god, then I don't believe anyone's going to hell for not "knowing" all about that.
    I see- thanks for clarification, OnWis!

    I agree, no one has the right to say "you don't have faith" or "you're going to hell for not having this or that faith."  That's a total crock.   No one has the right to say what another person's faith or lack of faith is.  We can only speak to our own beliefs about the intangible. 

    As for going to hell, sometimes I feel like I'm getting that out of the way during this lifetime.  Thankfully, sometimes I also feel like I'm in heaven.  Almost as bad and sometimes worse than feeling like hell is the feeling of limbo, of purgatory, of lifelessness.  That is very much a state of dull anguish for me. 


    I plan to feel that way in Missoula, Wrigley, and Wrigley again.
    That kind of "religion" I can dig!
    "Love and only love will break it down"
    -Neil Young
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.





  • Thoughts_ArriveThoughts_Arrive Melbourne, AustraliaPosts: 12,400
    rgambs said:
    brianlux said:
    rgambs said:
    Infuriating.
    I'd really like to post this to FB and tag my Catholic in laws.
    My mum thinks I am bad because I don't go to church. She's too far brainwashed to reason with.
    I don't believe in God nor particularly disbelieve in God, but if there is a God, I find that I would honor that God by not going to church  more than by going to church would.  The reason I say that is because if there is a God, then I assume it is that entity which created the earth, the moon, the planets, the stars and the universe and attending and supporting an institution that does not honor and protect that creation above all else would feel hypocritical to me.  That, and I'm just not that invested in mythology.
    Two years ago Easter saw a wonderfully beautiful sunrise in my locale, and as I drove to work I saw hundreds of fools sitting in churches with signs celebrating the "Son Rise" and singing their convoluted symbolic mythology while the glorious splendor of the real "God" went on with them completely unaware in their worship.
    I thought from a very young age how I thought it was weird that christians needed these massive grandiose structures that cost millions to worship in, and then asking for donations from the destitute that come there. I always thought "but if Jesus was who the bible said he was, he would not approve of this". 

    if Indiana Jones has taught me anything, it's that don't assume the King of Kings wanted to be treated like one. Drink from the carpenter's cup! 
    Excellent point.
    Jesus would hate it.
    Some priests drive luxury cars. It's a joke.
    Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
  • Thoughts_ArriveThoughts_Arrive Melbourne, AustraliaPosts: 12,400
    I don't know that I would call churches corrupt....but I do remember thinking it was odd and fake to dress up real nice on Sunday mornings to go to church.

    Glad I stopped going....really fucking boring
    Very boring.
    I hate how my mum comes home from church saying what the priest said. Who the fk is he to tell me how to live?
    This same priest got away with a drink driving fatality. Looks like the church got him off the hook.
    Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
  • DegeneratefkDegeneratefk Posts: 3,123
    I enjoyed the church I went to as a kid. I had my doubts about God from an early age. But I enjoyed going because my best friend went to the same church and I liked many of the regulars. It wasn't until I was in high school before I saw the blatant hypocrisy that went on. I was turned off to organized religion well before I stopped believing in a god. 
    will myself to find a home, a home within myself
    we will find a way, we will find our place
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