RAPE PREGNANCIES 'SOMETHING THAT GOD INTENDED'

ZosoZoso Posts: 6,425
edited November 2012 in A Moving Train
not this shit again

Richard Mourdock On Abortion: Pregnancy From Rape Is 'Something God Intended' (UPDATE)

WASHINGTON -- Indiana GOP U.S. Senate candidate Richard Mourdock declared Tuesday night he opposes aborting pregnancies conceived in rape because "it is something that God intended to happen."

Debating Rep. Joe Donnelly (D-Ind.) in their final Senate race showdown, a questioner asked them and Libertarian candidate Andrew Horning to explain their views on abortion.

All three said they were anti-abortion. But Mourdock went the further, putting himself in territory near Missouri GOP Senate candidate Rep. Todd Akin, the anti-abortion congressman who infamously asserted that women don't get pregnant from "legitimate rape."

"The only exception I have to have an abortion is in the case of the life of the mother," said Mourdock, the Tea Party-backed state treasurer. "I struggled with it myself for a long time, but I came to realize life is that gift from God. I think that even when life begins in that horrible situation of rape, that it is something that God intended to happen."

Mourdock unseated veteran Republican Sen. Richard Lugar in the May primary, and has battled Donnelly for the longtime senator's supporters since. Abortion has been a touchy issue for the candidates, with Mourdock accusing Donnelly of lacking strength on the issue because Donnelly backed the health care reform law. Donnelly has criticized a requirement that ensures women can get birth control, even when their employer objects to contraception.

"I believe in pro-life," Donnelly said, carving out somewhat more moderate anti-abortion stance. "I believe that life begins at conception. The only exceptions I believe in are for rape, incest and the life a mother."

Horning argued that the Supreme Court's Roe v. Wade decision was unconstitutional, and that abortion issues should be state matters.

UPDATE: 10:20 p.m. -- GOP presidential nominee Mitt Romney, who has endorsed Mourdock and supports him in a campaign ad that began running in Indiana on Tuesday, took issue with Mourdock's abortion comments, a spokeswoman said.

"Gov. Romney disagrees with Richard Mourdock's comments, and they do not reflect his views," Romney campaign spokeswoman Andrea Saul said.

UPDATE: 9:55 p.m. --

Mourdock tried to clarify his comments soon after the debate, saying God does not intend sexual assaults.

"God creates life, and that was my point," Mourdock said in a statement. "God does not want rape, and by no means was I suggesting that He does. Rape is a horrible thing, and for anyone to twist my words otherwise is absurd and sick."

Nevertheless, Democrats jumped on the comments as further proof that Murdock is an extremist.

"I think rape is a heinous and violent crime in every instance," said Donnelly in his own statement. "The God I believe in and the God I know most Hoosiers believe in, does not intend for rape to happen -- ever. What Mr. Mourdock said is shocking, and it is stunning that he would be so disrespectful to survivors of rape."

"Richard Mourdock's disturbing comment about rape is a window into Mourdock's extreme view of the world, " said Shripal Shah, spokesman for the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee. "Indiana can't afford to send a self-proclaimed 'zealot' and Tea Partier like Richard Mourdock to the Senate."

Mourdock has been trying to soften some of his postions for the general election after running on a platform that described compromise as when Democrats came to agree with him.
Horning had argued earlier in the debate that Mourdock should stick with the harder line.

"As I was reading about the extreme stands of Richard Mourdock I was thinking, 'Hey, there's hope for this guy.' A lot of the stuff that he said was correct," Horning said, referring to Mourdock's suggestions that entitlement programs such as Medicare and Social Security may not be constitutional.

"He has repudiated a lot of those statements. Some of it was about the unconstitutionality ... right on," Horning said. "We need somebody who is going to stick with principles."
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I love you forever and forever :)

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Comments

  • Jason PJason P Posts: 16,834
    stupid is as stupid does
  • dimitrispearljamdimitrispearljam NINUNINOPROPosts: 134,526
    Jason P wrote:
    stupid is as stupid does
    yeah...cant win stupid....but you can ignore them...
    "...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
    "..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
    “..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
  • comebackgirlcomebackgirl Posts: 9,884
    Yes...I'm sure God intended for anyone to be able to hold a woman's DNA and uterus hostage to spread his seed :roll: Again, this is the reason rape is used as a weapon of war.
    tumblr_mg4nc33pIX1s1mie8o1_400.gif

    "I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
  • BinFrogBinFrog MAPosts: 7,250
    Romney can try and distance himself from this stuff as much as possible: this is what he and his tea-party-hijacked Republican party believe. This party has turned into a holier than thou, pious bunch of sub-intellectual bigots. It's disgusting.
    Bright eyed kid: "Wow Typo Man, you're the best!"
    Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
  • ZosoZoso Posts: 6,425
    BinFrog wrote:
    Romney can try and distance himself from this stuff as much as possible: this is what he and his tea-party-hijacked Republican party believe. This party has turned into a holier than thou, pious bunch of sub-intellectual bigots. It's disgusting.

    the christian right have really done a number on the republicans.
    I'm just flying around the other side of the world to say I love you

    Sha la la la i'm in love with a jersey girl

    I love you forever and forever :)

    Adel 03 Melb 1 03 LA 2 06 Santa Barbara 06 Gorge 1 06 Gorge 2 06 Adel 1 06 Adel 2 06 Camden 1 08 Camden 2 08 Washington DC 08 Hartford 08
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 16,834
    The Indiana senate race w/ Mourdock is in a dead heat right now. This could flip in favor of the Democrats.

    You would have thought the GOP would have sent out a letter that told Republicans exactly what they should say in regards to abortion, but apparently not.

    My gut is that Donnelly wins.

    Tea Party should have stuck with fiscal conservative ideals instead of being hijacked into the social conservative ideals.

    As the years go on, sooner or later the GOP has to redefine its platform. Clinging to the social platform of the past is a hole in their hull which will sink the ship in good time.
  • know1know1 Posts: 6,499
    That was a horrible way to answer that question.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 8,987
    It is certainly an uncomfortable debate topic.

    But if you truly believe that it is a life...and you believe abortion is murder...while rape is bad, murder is worse. So I understand the sentiment.

    I've thought about these situations for some time. Life of the mother at risk? That's an easy one. Up to her. Rape and incest are far more difficult. It most certainly puts emotional and physical stress on a woman if abortion is not an option. But on the other hand, why punish someone that is innocent for the crimes of another? That same statement could probably be argued effectively by both sides actually.

    But, I do think the immediate "outrage" and backlash from some stifle the discussion which is very important. It's far better to use soundbites and take comments out of context to win your election then it is to have a serious discussion about the issues.

    When it comes down to it I flip-flop on my position from time to time. Right now, I'd say that I would not fight against abortion being legal in case where the mother's life is at risk, rape, or incest. But it is still a struggle to come to terms with that for me. Kinda feels hypocritical.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 16,834
    know1 wrote:
    That was a horrible way to answer that question.
    There are worse ways to go out ... :)

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  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,551
    It is certainly an uncomfortable debate topic.

    But if you truly believe that it is a life...and you believe abortion is murder...while rape is bad, murder is worse. So I understand the sentiment.

    what makes murder worse than rape? ... knowing that rape is a contributing factor to suicide - it would lead one to ascertain that for many women rape is worse than murder ...

    in any case - i feel like this topic is nearly impossible to have a frank discussion about because the conditions by which people front their opinions is so vastly different ... for you - life begins at conception ... and abortion is murder ... well, there really isn't much to discuss if i disagree with both of your positions ...
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin LouisPosts: 16,092
    romney cut an ad in support of this man monday afternoon. now he is trying to distance himself from it. romney campaign has not commented on this guy one way or another and it is unclear whether or not romney still supports him... imagine that. romney will do whatever is politically expedient.
    "There is nothing to writing. All you do is sit down at a typewriter and bleed."- Hemingway

    "i'm not here to start the fire. i am here to fan the flames..."

    If you have never failed, you have never lived.
  • pandorapandora Posts: 21,855
    Some people believe God intends everything and there lies the blame.
    We even see that in nonbelievers ;)

    From Mitt denouncing this I gather he is not one who thinks this and
    it's a good thing that most do not.

    "Judge yourself if you feel the need
    Just let me known to be
    In search of the truth myself
    There is a drop of blood on the ground
    And it seems to me that it's not my kind
    And I can't be sure if its yours or mine."
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 8,987
    polaris_x wrote:
    It is certainly an uncomfortable debate topic.

    But if you truly believe that it is a life...and you believe abortion is murder...while rape is bad, murder is worse. So I understand the sentiment.

    what makes murder worse than rape? ... knowing that rape is a contributing factor to suicide - it would lead one to ascertain that for many women rape is worse than murder ...

    in any case - i feel like this topic is nearly impossible to have a frank discussion about because the conditions by which people front their opinions is so vastly different ... for you - life begins at conception ... and abortion is murder ... well, there really isn't much to discuss if i disagree with both of your positions ...


    Well, you pose a good question and that is why I think there is still value in the discussion. Perhaps even if it is murder, it is not as bad as the emotional stress, physical stress and the possibility of basically ruining more lives and even suicide as you mention.

    But I also think there is value in the discussion because the laws should reflect society and we need all opinions. And in reality we should be more focused on how we stop these pregnancies so we have less and less to argue about. ;)
    hippiemom = goodness
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 8,987
    romney will do whatever is politically expedient.


    Yeah, and this is obviously unique to Romney. :roll:
    hippiemom = goodness
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 8,987
    romney cut an ad in support of this man monday afternoon. now he is trying to distance himself from it. romney campaign has not commented on this guy one way or another and it is unclear whether or not romney still supports him... imagine that. romney will do whatever is politically expedient.


    Not to mention you are wrong, didn;t you read it?

    "UPDATE: 10:20 p.m. -- GOP presidential nominee Mitt Romney, who has endorsed Mourdock and supports him in a campaign ad that began running in Indiana on Tuesday, took issue with Mourdock's abortion comments, a spokeswoman said.

    "Gov. Romney disagrees with Richard Mourdock's comments, and they do not reflect his views," Romney campaign spokeswoman Andrea Saul said."
    hippiemom = goodness
  • comebackgirlcomebackgirl Posts: 9,884
    It is certainly an uncomfortable debate topic.

    But if you truly believe that it is a life...and you believe abortion is murder...while rape is bad, murder is worse. So I understand the sentiment.

    I've thought about these situations for some time. Life of the mother at risk? That's an easy one. Up to her. Rape and incest are far more difficult. It most certainly puts emotional and physical stress on a woman if abortion is not an option. But on the other hand, why punish someone that is innocent for the crimes of another? That same statement could probably be argued effectively by both sides actually.

    But, I do think the immediate "outrage" and backlash from some stifle the discussion which is very important. It's far better to use soundbites and take comments out of context to win your election then it is to have a serious discussion about the issues.

    When it comes down to it I flip-flop on my position from time to time. Right now, I'd say that I would not fight against abortion being legal in case where the mother's life is at risk, rape, or incest. But it is still a struggle to come to terms with that for me. Kinda feels hypocritical.
    It's a tough issue for me too. I can understand where you're coming from on this. While I'm pro-choice, I do wish for the day that terminating an unwanted pregnancy isn't even necessary. I would really like to see continued efforts on access to and education about contraception, as well as more prevention focused on the factors that lead to unwanted pregnancies in the first place. For me, the fact that the creation of a potential life is the motivation for some rapes, means that abortion in those cases needs to remain an option. It's used as a very effective weapon in abusive relationships. I think that is often overlooked. And I'm not convinced that either side of the political spectrum cares all that much...the issue is just used as a tool to win elections in a lot of cases.
    tumblr_mg4nc33pIX1s1mie8o1_400.gif

    "I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,551
    Well, you pose a good question and that is why I think there is still value in the discussion. Perhaps even if it is murder, it is not as bad as the emotional stress, physical stress and the possibility of basically ruining more lives and even suicide as you mention.

    But I also think there is value in the discussion because the laws should reflect society and we need all opinions. And in reality we should be more focused on how we stop these pregnancies so we have less and less to argue about. ;)

    ya ... i pretty much feel like the abortion debate is futile ... there just simply isn't enough "facts" that opposing viewpoints can agree upon to formulate a discussion ...
  • ZosoZoso Posts: 6,425
    romney cut an ad in support of this man monday afternoon. now he is trying to distance himself from it. romney campaign has not commented on this guy one way or another and it is unclear whether or not romney still supports him... imagine that. romney will do whatever is politically expedient.


    Not to mention you are wrong, didn;t you read it?

    "UPDATE: 10:20 p.m. -- GOP presidential nominee Mitt Romney, who has endorsed Mourdock and supports him in a campaign ad that began running in Indiana on Tuesday, took issue with Mourdock's abortion comments, a spokeswoman said.

    "Gov. Romney disagrees with Richard Mourdock's comments, and they do not reflect his views," Romney campaign spokeswoman Andrea Saul said."

    both candidates do this.. but especially the nominee that went through a primary.. Romney had to be really conservative to win the republican primary and now has gone to the middle to win the presidential election (or try to). He is a typical republican but now has ventured to the middle to get the undecided to vote for him.
    I'm just flying around the other side of the world to say I love you

    Sha la la la i'm in love with a jersey girl

    I love you forever and forever :)

    Adel 03 Melb 1 03 LA 2 06 Santa Barbara 06 Gorge 1 06 Gorge 2 06 Adel 1 06 Adel 2 06 Camden 1 08 Camden 2 08 Washington DC 08 Hartford 08
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin LouisPosts: 16,092
    romney will do whatever is politically expedient.


    Yeah, and this is obviously unique to Romney. :roll:
    romney is the leader of your party. he should be a leader and either embrace this man or condemn him. it is that simple.
    "There is nothing to writing. All you do is sit down at a typewriter and bleed."- Hemingway

    "i'm not here to start the fire. i am here to fan the flames..."

    If you have never failed, you have never lived.
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin LouisPosts: 16,092
    romney cut an ad in support of this man monday afternoon. now he is trying to distance himself from it. romney campaign has not commented on this guy one way or another and it is unclear whether or not romney still supports him... imagine that. romney will do whatever is politically expedient.


    Not to mention you are wrong, didn;t you read it?

    "UPDATE: 10:20 p.m. -- GOP presidential nominee Mitt Romney, who has endorsed Mourdock and supports him in a campaign ad that began running in Indiana on Tuesday, took issue with Mourdock's abortion comments, a spokeswoman said.

    "Gov. Romney disagrees with Richard Mourdock's comments, and they do not reflect his views," Romney campaign spokeswoman Andrea Saul said."
    romney is to control the direction of this party. it is his job to rebuke idiots like this guy.

    i don't see romney demanding that the ad that he did be pulled...
    "There is nothing to writing. All you do is sit down at a typewriter and bleed."- Hemingway

    "i'm not here to start the fire. i am here to fan the flames..."

    If you have never failed, you have never lived.
  • pandorapandora Posts: 21,855
    romney is to control the direction of this party. it is his job to rebuke idiots like this guy.

    i don't see romney demanding that the ad that he did be pulled...
    You think the ad should be pulled?
    Why?

    "Judge yourself if you feel the need
    Just let me known to be
    In search of the truth myself
    There is a drop of blood on the ground
    And it seems to me that it's not my kind
    And I can't be sure if its yours or mine."
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin LouisPosts: 16,092
    pandora wrote:
    romney is to control the direction of this party. it is his job to rebuke idiots like this guy.

    i don't see romney demanding that the ad that he did be pulled...
    You think the ad should be pulled?
    Why?
    because your nominee is on record supporting this guy, and if enough indiana voters see that add they could turn not only on the politician in question, but on romney himself.

    this ad could be politically damaging to romney.
    "There is nothing to writing. All you do is sit down at a typewriter and bleed."- Hemingway

    "i'm not here to start the fire. i am here to fan the flames..."

    If you have never failed, you have never lived.
  • Who PrincessWho Princess out here in the fieldsPosts: 7,082
    polaris_x wrote:
    Well, you pose a good question and that is why I think there is still value in the discussion. Perhaps even if it is murder, it is not as bad as the emotional stress, physical stress and the possibility of basically ruining more lives and even suicide as you mention.

    But I also think there is value in the discussion because the laws should reflect society and we need all opinions. And in reality we should be more focused on how we stop these pregnancies so we have less and less to argue about. ;)

    ya ... i pretty much feel like the abortion debate is futile ... there just simply isn't enough "facts" that opposing viewpoints can agree upon to formulate a discussion ...
    I don't know that it's completely futile. But I think the difficulty in discussing it is that it's a much more complicated issue than most of us want to admit. I think there are more people who struggle with the nuances of it than there are people who feel rigidly (on one side or the other). The rigid people just tend to be more vocal.

    I think I'm just more disturbed by the trend of making this a political issue. It's been going on since the 90s, which is interesting because abortion was legalized throughout the U.S. in 1973. It took a couple of decades for people to start screaming about it.
    "The stars are all connected to the brain."
  • BinFrogBinFrog MAPosts: 7,250
    polaris_x wrote:
    Well, you pose a good question and that is why I think there is still value in the discussion. Perhaps even if it is murder, it is not as bad as the emotional stress, physical stress and the possibility of basically ruining more lives and even suicide as you mention.

    But I also think there is value in the discussion because the laws should reflect society and we need all opinions. And in reality we should be more focused on how we stop these pregnancies so we have less and less to argue about. ;)

    ya ... i pretty much feel like the abortion debate is futile ... there just simply isn't enough "facts" that opposing viewpoints can agree upon to formulate a discussion ...
    I don't know that it's completely futile. But I think the difficulty in discussing it is that it's a much more complicated issue than most of us want to admit. I think there are more people who struggle with the nuances of it than there are people who feel rigidly (on one side or the other). The rigid people just tend to be more vocal.

    I think I'm just more disturbed by the trend of making this a political issue. It's been going on since the 90s, which is interesting because abortion was legalized throughout the U.S. in 1973. It took a couple of decades for people to start screaming about it.


    I think it is definitely futile. It is entirely based on ones sense of morality and emotions.
    Bright eyed kid: "Wow Typo Man, you're the best!"
    Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
  • Who PrincessWho Princess out here in the fieldsPosts: 7,082
    BinFrog wrote:
    I think it is definitely futile. It is entirely based on ones sense of morality and emotions.
    I have a friend who was very active in the pro-life movement. Bumper stickers on her car, picketing clinics, volunteering at the thrift shop for women with problem pregnancies. I never discussed it with her. That was important to her and I respected that, even though I'd never do it.

    Abortion was still illegal when I was a teenager. When I was 17 my best friend had an abortion. It was pretty horrible. I stayed angry about that for a long time. I didn't understand about the politics or whatever, I just knew my friend shouldn't have had to go through that. It also really shook me up and made me think about abortion in a concrete way. So I think abortion is terrible, yet I think it should be safe, legal, and available--and rarely needed.

    I was also a rape crisis volunteer in the 80s. One year, 3 young women killed themselves after becoming pregnant by their rapist. Each of them came from very religious families who felt that abortion wasn't an option. Their deaths made me angry and sad.

    My friend who was pro-life changed her views somewhere along the way. She came to see other people in the movement as strident and forcing their ways on others. I don't know if you'd call her pro-choice now, but she feels like reasonable, intelligent people can hold differing viewpoints and still get along. I think that's awesome.
    "The stars are all connected to the brain."
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 8,987
    romney cut an ad in support of this man monday afternoon. now he is trying to distance himself from it. romney campaign has not commented on this guy one way or another and it is unclear whether or not romney still supports him... imagine that. romney will do whatever is politically expedient.


    Not to mention you are wrong, didn;t you read it?

    "UPDATE: 10:20 p.m. -- GOP presidential nominee Mitt Romney, who has endorsed Mourdock and supports him in a campaign ad that began running in Indiana on Tuesday, took issue with Mourdock's abortion comments, a spokeswoman said.

    "Gov. Romney disagrees with Richard Mourdock's comments, and they do not reflect his views," Romney campaign spokeswoman Andrea Saul said."
    romney is to control the direction of this party. it is his job to rebuke idiots like this guy.

    i don't see romney demanding that the ad that he did be pulled...

    Man, this is sad and why their is no discussion and only blame throwing. You say something, and it sounds bad, but if you think about it, it's not that bad just said poorly. And gimme thinks you should be gone! Sad indeed.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • put this in context folks. The guy is a theist. He believes all life comes from God. He said:

    "I think that even when life begins in that horrible situation of rape, that it is something that God intended to happen."

    Why would he think life created in a rape came from the devil? At the very least he's being consistent in his theological viewpoint.

    The title of the thread is misleading, formed in a way that makes this guy sound like he believes God made someone rape someone else. that's not what he said and you all know it.
    Gimli 1993
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  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,551
    The title of the thread is misleading, formed in a way that makes this guy sound like he believes God made someone rape someone else. that's not what he said and you all know it.

    i don't think too many people think this guy says it's ok to rape ... i think most people are offended at the notion that religion/god is the premise by which he wants to prevent a woman from getting an abortion ...
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 16,834
    polaris_x wrote:
    The title of the thread is misleading, formed in a way that makes this guy sound like he believes God made someone rape someone else. that's not what he said and you all know it.

    i don't think too many people think this guy says it's ok to rape ... i think most people are offended at the notion that religion/god is the premise by which he wants to prevent a woman from getting an abortion ...
    The one thing that gets glossed over is that his Democratic opponent shares the same view regarding abortion but didn't stick his foot in his mouth.

    But to get all that information out there would go over our 144 character attention span. :) :fp:
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin LouisPosts: 16,092
    polaris_x wrote:
    The title of the thread is misleading, formed in a way that makes this guy sound like he believes God made someone rape someone else. that's not what he said and you all know it.

    i don't think too many people think this guy says it's ok to rape ... i think most people are offended at the notion that religion/god is the premise by which he wants to prevent a woman from getting an abortion ...
    i know he did not say that it is ok to rape. but i have a hard time believing that anyone would agree that it is god's will for a woman to raise the child of someone who raped her. to raise a kid who will never know his dad, only that he is the product of a violent act, is not the idea of a gift to me. how is the kid supposed to feel about that? i don't think it is cool to have god "give" a child to someone who might not have even wanted to have kids in the first place. that is kind of a dick move by god, don't you think?
    "There is nothing to writing. All you do is sit down at a typewriter and bleed."- Hemingway

    "i'm not here to start the fire. i am here to fan the flames..."

    If you have never failed, you have never lived.
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