i know he did not say that it is ok to rape. but i have a hard time believing that anyone would agree that it is god's will for a woman to raise the child of someone who raped her. to raise a kid who will never know his dad, only that he is the product of a violent act, is not the idea of a gift to me. how is the kid supposed to feel about that? i don't think it is cool to have god "give" a child to someone who might not have even wanted to have kids in the first place. that is kind of a dick move by god, don't you think?
i'm agnostic so anyone who uses god as a foundation to espouse his/her beliefs has lost me ...
The one thing that gets glossed over is that his Democratic opponent shares the same view regarding abortion but didn't stick his foot in his mouth.
But to get all that information out there would go over our 144 character attention span. :fp:
in so much as they are both pro-life ... but i believe the democrat believes in abortions in cases of rape ...
Yeah, it looks like Donnelly is for exemptions on rape, incest, and fear of the mother dying while Mourdock is only in favor if the mother may die.
It's not like their opinions really matter except to pander to an audience or to say something that can backfire on themselves. That's why Mourdock should have had a carefully crafted response ready from his handlers for this question. Dumb.
Yeah, it looks like Donnelly is for exemptions on rape, incest, and fear of the mother dying while Mourdock is only in favor if the mother may die.
It's not like their opinions really matter except to pander to an audience or to say something that can backfire on themselves. That's why Mourdock should have had a carefully crafted response ready from his handlers for this question. Dumb.
the thing that should be most troubling is the exploitation of god and religion ... it's like - everything is justifiable if you just say god says its ok ... like - what the cuss? ...
The title of the thread is misleading, formed in a way that makes this guy sound like he believes God made someone rape someone else. that's not what he said and you all know it.
i don't think too many people think this guy says it's ok to rape ... i think most people are offended at the notion that religion/god is the premise by which he wants to prevent a woman from getting an abortion ...
He believes all life is sacred. Period. I can't fault the guy for that.
I believe in the seperation of church and state, and obviously the right of a woman to make decisions of her own body/life on her own.
But how can someone be reasonably expected to go against what they believe in order to serve the people?
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
He believes all life is sacred. Period. I can't fault the guy for that.
I believe in the seperation of church and state, and obviously the right of a woman to make decisions of her own body/life on her own.
But how can someone be reasonably expected to go against what they believe in order to serve the people?
really!?? ... what's his stance on iran and the israeli-palestinian conflict!? ... i doubt he believes all life is sacred ...
we are all hypocritical ... but to use god as a reason why a woman should be denied access to an abortion when she is impregnated during rape is exploitative and is based on faith ... a faith that more and more people do not subscribe to ...
so, in essence he is going to impose his religious beliefs standards on everyone ... how is that right?
I don't know that it's completely futile. But I think the difficulty in discussing it is that it's a much more complicated issue than most of us want to admit. I think there are more people who struggle with the nuances of it than there are people who feel rigidly (on one side or the other). The rigid people just tend to be more vocal.
I think I'm just more disturbed by the trend of making this a political issue. It's been going on since the 90s, which is interesting because abortion was legalized throughout the U.S. in 1973. It took a couple of decades for people to start screaming about it.
I just wanted to echo this sentiment. I'm really sick of it being used a weapon in the political debate.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
Romney can try and distance himself from this stuff as much as possible: this is what he and his tea-party-hijacked Republican party believe. This party has turned into a holier than thou, pious bunch of sub-intellectual bigots. It's disgusting.
well said
All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed.
He believes all life is sacred. Period. I can't fault the guy for that.
I believe in the seperation of church and state, and obviously the right of a woman to make decisions of her own body/life on her own.
But how can someone be reasonably expected to go against what they believe in order to serve the people?
really!?? ... what's his stance on iran and the israeli-palestinian conflict!? ... i doubt he believes all life is sacred ...
we are all hypocritical ... but to use god as a reason why a woman should be denied access to an abortion when she is impregnated during rape is exploitative and is based on faith ... a faith that more and more people do not subscribe to ...
so, in essence he is going to impose his religious beliefs standards on everyone ... how is that right?
it's not right, polaris. I said I don't believe in spiritual beliefs interfering with law-making. All I'm saying is it would be just as difficult for his beliefs not to get in the way of how he conducts himself as it would be for you or I to suppress ours.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
But if you truly believe that it is a life...and you believe abortion is murder...while rape is bad, murder is worse. So I understand the sentiment.
I've thought about these situations for some time. Life of the mother at risk? That's an easy one. Up to her. Rape and incest are far more difficult. It most certainly puts emotional and physical stress on a woman if abortion is not an option. But on the other hand, why punish someone that is innocent for the crimes of another? That same statement could probably be argued effectively by both sides actually.
But, I do think the immediate "outrage" and backlash from some stifle the discussion which is very important. It's far better to use soundbites and take comments out of context to win your election then it is to have a serious discussion about the issues.
When it comes down to it I flip-flop on my position from time to time. Right now, I'd say that I would not fight against abortion being legal in case where the mother's life is at risk, rape, or incest. But it is still a struggle to come to terms with that for me. Kinda feels hypocritical.
A women can do whatever she wants with her own body, including choosing whether or not she wants something growing in it. Period.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I don't know that it's completely futile. But I think the difficulty in discussing it is that it's a much more complicated issue than most of us want to admit. I think there are more people who struggle with the nuances of it than there are people who feel rigidly (on one side or the other). The rigid people just tend to be more vocal.
I think I'm just more disturbed by the trend of making this a political issue. It's been going on since the 90s, which is interesting because abortion was legalized throughout the U.S. in 1973. It took a couple of decades for people to start screaming about it.
I just wanted to echo this sentiment. I'm really sick of it being used a weapon in the political debate.
all issues that involve heated emotions are used to attract and keep members of your party.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
He believes all life is sacred. Period. I can't fault the guy for that.
I believe in the seperation of church and state, and obviously the right of a woman to make decisions of her own body/life on her own.
But how can someone be reasonably expected to go against what they believe in order to serve the people?
really!?? ... what's his stance on iran and the israeli-palestinian conflict!? ... i doubt he believes all life is sacred ...
we are all hypocritical ... but to use god as a reason why a woman should be denied access to an abortion when she is impregnated during rape is exploitative and is based on faith ... a faith that more and more people do not subscribe to ...
so, in essence he is going to impose his religious beliefs standards on everyone ... how is that right?
now is this statement based in anything factual or just assumption based on party affiliation?
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Romney can try and distance himself from this stuff as much as possible: this is what he and his tea-party-hijacked Republican party believe. This party has turned into a holier than thou, pious bunch of sub-intellectual bigots. It's disgusting.
well said
Romney's first allegiance is to the Mormon Church, not the American citizens (I wish people would stop forgetting that). The Mormon Churches position is that all abortion is wrong except for in cases of rape, incest, and when the mother's life is in danger. Romney will do what he can to match the laws to his church's I should think, since he's a dedicated Mormon. He just needs to win, and then he will aim to do whatever the Mormon Church wants.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
After reading some of your discussion I think one thing is clear: It is totally ludicrous for an American federal politician to act as though they think all life is sacred, and like they 100% stick to their guns on that principle. I`m surprised any of them even bring it up, since the hypocrisy is so glaring.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
human beings rape because they are cruel idiots. we'll say god invented us. that is saying god invented all of our nastiness as well as our goodness. this is the angle they are using.
however, it doesn't mean we gotta stand for it and get rid of abortion. god invented morons and dumb assholes. that doesn't mean they should be in charge of entire cities, states or countries let alone their backyards or shitters. yeah some people... i mean idiots... some idiots can't even pee/poop proper
human beings rape because they are cruel idiots. we'll say god invented us. that is saying god invented all of our nastiness as well as our goodness. this is the angle they are using.
however, it doesn't mean we gotta stand for it and get rid of abortion. god invented morons and dumb assholes. that doesn't mean they should be in charge of entire cities, states or countries let alone their backyards or shitters. yeah some people... i mean idiots... some idiots can't even pee/poop proper
To be fair, I think it's clear that the guy didn't mean that God intended rape, but, rather, he intended for that life to begin. I realize that the two go hand in hand, but it's still not the same. That being said... it really doesn't matter. He supports girls and women having babies that are the result of rape against their will, AND supports girls and women who are the victims of rape to resort to dangerous back-alley abortions. I don't need a really stupid quote and then twist its intended meaning slightly to know that the guy is a fucking asshole.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
because you used that page as confirmation that all "party-towing republicans are israel-loving war mongers".
Well, the sitting president is a democrat.
And I'm hesitant to lump any group of people, or even most of their members, into such categories as you did.
ok ... the discussion is about your position that mourdock be given a pass because of his belief that "all life is sacred" ... i think i've clearly proven that to be not necessarily true ... i'm not saying democrats are better or anyone for that matter ... we're all hypocritical ...
but generalization or not ... it's pretty evident that although both parties support israel - the republicans support the right wing zionist agenda more so than democrats or at the very least obama ... obviously, not all do but to postulate that one does - the odds are that one would be correct ...
I don't know that it's completely futile. But I think the difficulty in discussing it is that it's a much more complicated issue than most of us want to admit. I think there are more people who struggle with the nuances of it than there are people who feel rigidly (on one side or the other). The rigid people just tend to be more vocal.
I think I'm just more disturbed by the trend of making this a political issue. It's been going on since the 90s, which is interesting because abortion was legalized throughout the U.S. in 1973. It took a couple of decades for people to start screaming about it.
I just wanted to echo this sentiment. I'm really sick of it being used a weapon in the political debate.
all issues that involve heated emotions are used to attract and keep members of your party.
Exactly...they're just being used as tools. Sadly, there are people impacted by them being used in that manner...and it really pisses me off
Post edited by comebackgirl on
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
because you used that page as confirmation that all "party-towing republicans are israel-loving war mongers".
Well, the sitting president is a democrat.
And I'm hesitant to lump any group of people, or even most of their members, into such categories as you did.
ok ... the discussion is about your position that mourdock be given a pass because of his belief that "all life is sacred" ... i think i've clearly proven that to be not necessarily true ... i'm not saying democrats are better or anyone for that matter ... we're all hypocritical ...
but generalization or not ... it's pretty evident that although both parties support israel - the republicans support the right wing zionist agenda more so than democrats or at the very least obama ... obviously, not all do but to postulate that one does - the odds are that one would be correct ...
no, it's not my position that he be given a pass (whatever that means). I don't agree with taking away a women's right to choose. I also don't think you've clearly proven anything.
and I don't clearly have a position on this man. I'm discussing this, admittedly, trying to figure out what my position is. All I'm saying is I don't think it's right to judge someone solely on one statement, as provocative as that statement may seem, or think you KNOW what they meant by said statement, or their intentions/agenda behind it.
I don't know enough about this guy to make that call. Maybe you do, I don't know, but I have yet to see it based on what people have posted thus far.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
all issues that involve heated emotions are used to attract and keep members of your party.
Exactly...they're just being used as tools. Sadly, there are people impacted by them being used in that manner...and it really pisses me off
this is the very nature of politics though. Some of the "tools" that Obama (or whomever you support) has used, I'm sure, have impacted people (possibly in the negative way).
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
A women can do whatever she wants with her own body, including choosing whether or not she wants something growing in it. Period.
Since you said period I guess you win.
Funny thing, I agree. Abortion deals with more than just the woman's body.
But alas, as I noted, you said "Period". Well played sir.
Please don't call me sir. I'm female. Not sure why you're focusing my saying period. I meant nothing by it other than "that is all that counts".
As far as I'm concerned, as a woman, abortion does NOT deal with more than just a woman's body (and mind).
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
all issues that involve heated emotions are used to attract and keep members of your party.
Exactly...they're just being used as tools. Sadly, there are people impacted by them being used in that manner...and it really pisses me off
this is the very nature of politics though. Some of the "tools" that Obama (or whomever you support) has used, I'm sure, have impacted people (possibly in the negative way).
For sure. That's what I'm saying - I don't think the dems really care about the right to choose either - they use it as a tool too. Which is why I hate politics. PERIOD :wave:
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
Comments
in so much as they are both pro-life ... but i believe the democrat believes in abortions in cases of rape ...
i'm agnostic so anyone who uses god as a foundation to espouse his/her beliefs has lost me ...
It's not like their opinions really matter except to pander to an audience or to say something that can backfire on themselves. That's why Mourdock should have had a carefully crafted response ready from his handlers for this question. Dumb.
the thing that should be most troubling is the exploitation of god and religion ... it's like - everything is justifiable if you just say god says its ok ... like - what the cuss? ...
He believes all life is sacred. Period. I can't fault the guy for that.
I believe in the seperation of church and state, and obviously the right of a woman to make decisions of her own body/life on her own.
But how can someone be reasonably expected to go against what they believe in order to serve the people?
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
really!?? ... what's his stance on iran and the israeli-palestinian conflict!? ... i doubt he believes all life is sacred ...
we are all hypocritical ... but to use god as a reason why a woman should be denied access to an abortion when she is impregnated during rape is exploitative and is based on faith ... a faith that more and more people do not subscribe to ...
so, in essence he is going to impose his religious beliefs standards on everyone ... how is that right?
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
it's not right, polaris. I said I don't believe in spiritual beliefs interfering with law-making. All I'm saying is it would be just as difficult for his beliefs not to get in the way of how he conducts himself as it would be for you or I to suppress ours.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
all issues that involve heated emotions are used to attract and keep members of your party.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
now is this statement based in anything factual or just assumption based on party affiliation?
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
it's based on empirical evidence that suggests most party-towing republicans are pro-israel war hawks ... and confirmed by this ...
http://protectourheritagepac.net/MOURDOCK.html
actually, that page says pretty much the exact same thing as Obama said during the debate the other night.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
what does that have to do with anything?
because you used that page as confirmation that all "party-towing republicans are israel-loving war mongers".
Well, the sitting president is a democrat.
And I'm hesitant to lump any group of people, or even most of their members, into such categories as you did.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
human beings rape because they are cruel idiots. we'll say god invented us. that is saying god invented all of our nastiness as well as our goodness. this is the angle they are using.
however, it doesn't mean we gotta stand for it and get rid of abortion. god invented morons and dumb assholes. that doesn't mean they should be in charge of entire cities, states or countries let alone their backyards or shitters. yeah some people... i mean idiots... some idiots can't even pee/poop proper
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
ok ... the discussion is about your position that mourdock be given a pass because of his belief that "all life is sacred" ... i think i've clearly proven that to be not necessarily true ... i'm not saying democrats are better or anyone for that matter ... we're all hypocritical ...
but generalization or not ... it's pretty evident that although both parties support israel - the republicans support the right wing zionist agenda more so than democrats or at the very least obama ... obviously, not all do but to postulate that one does - the odds are that one would be correct ...
Since you said period I guess you win.
Funny thing, I agree. Abortion deals with more than just the woman's body.
But alas, as I noted, you said "Period". Well played sir.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
no, it's not my position that he be given a pass (whatever that means). I don't agree with taking away a women's right to choose. I also don't think you've clearly proven anything.
and I don't clearly have a position on this man. I'm discussing this, admittedly, trying to figure out what my position is. All I'm saying is I don't think it's right to judge someone solely on one statement, as provocative as that statement may seem, or think you KNOW what they meant by said statement, or their intentions/agenda behind it.
I don't know enough about this guy to make that call. Maybe you do, I don't know, but I have yet to see it based on what people have posted thus far.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
this is the very nature of politics though. Some of the "tools" that Obama (or whomever you support) has used, I'm sure, have impacted people (possibly in the negative way).
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
As far as I'm concerned, as a woman, abortion does NOT deal with more than just a woman's body (and mind).
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"