Democrats

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  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 30,486
    I'm not sure I do.  I don't like purity tests and primary challenges funded by national groups.  I think a representative should be reflective of their district.  I don't mind AOC being liberal because that's her district.  She couldn't and wouldn't represent where I live because I'm in a center-left, pro business district.  I don't want that type of division harming our chance to win a general.  
  • tbergstbergs Posts: 10,201
    I thought his interview on Bryan Tyler Cohen yesterday was surprisingly good. I expected to dislike him, but I didn't find what he said to be anything extreme and could be beneficial to politics in general.
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • Tim SimmonsTim Simmons Posts: 8,813
    mrussel1 said:
    I'm not sure I do.  I don't like purity tests and primary challenges funded by national groups.  I think a representative should be reflective of their district.  I don't mind AOC being liberal because that's her district.  She couldn't and wouldn't represent where I live because I'm in a center-left, pro business district.  I don't want that type of division harming our chance to win a general.  
    I agree. But also, we need fresh blood too. I think this is more of get the Dick Durban’s (bad example, seeing as he’s senate-  but I mean the older, long sitting types) and the like gone. 
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 43,046
    isnt the idea to target safe districts that have ineffective representatives?  thats my understanding.
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  • Tim SimmonsTim Simmons Posts: 8,813
    Probably. 
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 30,486
    mickeyrat said:
    isnt the idea to target safe districts that have ineffective representatives?  thats my understanding.
    I suppose that’s better. It better be a low risk strategy
  • DE4173DE4173 Posts: 1,833
    1993: 11/22 Little Rock
    1996; 9/28 New York
    1997: 11/14 Oakland, 11/15 Oakland
    1998: 7/5 Dallas, 7/7 Albuquerque, 7/8 Phoenix, 7/10 San Diego, 7/11 Las Vegas
    2000: 10/17 Dallas
    2003: 4/3 OKC
    2012: 11/17 Tulsa(EV), 11/18 Tulsa(EV)
    2013: 11/16 OKC
    2014: 10/8 Tulsa
    2022: 9/20 OKC
    2023: 9/13 Ft Worth, 9/15 Ft Worth
  • DE4173DE4173 Posts: 1,833
    Hogg Wild
    All power, no principles, and the problem with our politics.Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School shooting survivor David Hogg speaks in front of reporters at an installation of body bags assembled on the National Mall by Gun Control activist group March For Our Lives on March 24, 2022 in Washington, D.C. Hogg is now a vice chair of the Democratic National Committee. (Photo by Anna Moneymaker/Getty Images)By Jonah GoldbergPublished April 25, 2025
    Dear Reader (including the superstitious),  I can’t stand David Hogg, the elvish progressive activist who was recently elected as a vice chair of the Democratic National Committee. From his introduction to the public during the heinous 2018 Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School shooting (where his anti-gun outrage was entirely understandable), he has always struck me as the kind of precocious kid who knows exactly how to impress a certain kind of middle-aged lefty. He’s exactly what young people are supposed to be like in the eyes of a certain kind of affluent blue-bubble oldster. Full of invincible righteous arrogance and supreme confidence that the way you “effect change” is through performative protest, Hogg seems like he was bioengineered in a vat to impress Ivy League admissions officers and intern coordinators at Greenpeace. I am confessing my dislike for the guy as a Dispatchian service to readers who might be tempted to accuse me of being unduly biased. “Unduly” is in the eye of the beholder—or reader—but I admit my bias freely. In my ideal world, I wouldn’t feel compelled to write about him because he wouldn’t matter. He’d be just another minion in Elizabeth Warren’s Senate office annoying the chief of staff with memos about how he’s being underutilized (or maybe he’d be a Botox salesman making a fortune by telling metrosexual men he’s 15 years older than he really is). But precisely because he’s the kind of oleaginous creature designed to slide up the greasy pole of progressive politics, he’s landed a “leadership” position in the Democratic Party. Normally, a vice chair (they don’t use “chairman” or even “chairperson”) of the Democratic Party isn’t a particularly newsworthy position. I mean, there are four of them. Can you name the other three? Forgive me if I don’t wait for you to Google their names. Hogg is newsworthy because he’s vowed to spend $20 million from his “Leaders We Deserve” PAC to challenge Democratic incumbents. As Karl Rove suggests, this might be more of a publicity stunt (of course) than a plausible threat. In the last cycle, the Leaders We Deserve PAC raised $11.9 million while spending a mere $266,000 on the leaders we allegedly deserve, Rove writes. That’s 2.2 percent. The other 97.8 percent went to operating costs, including Hogg’s salary. If those ratios stayed constant, they’d have to raise $909 million. Of course, the need to find leaders we deserve might induce them to up the percentage from 2.2 percent, even if that meant skimping on media bookers and hair product. Before I continue with the rank punditry, let me return once again to a regular theme here about weak parties, but also about weakening institutions.  With the possible exception of Yuval Levin himself, I think I might be the foremost promoter of his analysis of institutional decay in A Time To Build. The problem, as Remnant listeners and loyal G-File readers will recall, is that people use institutions as stages to perform on. Institutions are supposed to mold character toward the interests of the institution. Instead, people use institutions as platforms to get attention. You can think former San Francisco 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick was a hero or a jerk for kneeling during the national anthem, but it’s indisputable that he used his membership in the NFL to promote his agenda at the expense of the institution that employed him. Meghan Markle used the institution of the British royal family to promote her own celebrity and cult of personality. Sometimes, the people who do this are careful to limit the harm to the institution they are exploiting for their own purposes. Sometimes, harming the institution is the point, because it is that very disloyalty that attracts attention. The examples of this kind of thing are legion. And Hogg is just the latest example. He is using his position within the Democratic Party to garner attention and money for his own agenda. Political parties are not mystical entities. They only exist for a few interrelated reasons. But the primary one is to simply get members of their party elected. You can gussy it up with some gauzy aspirational secondary rationalizations about ideology and principle. But those things apply to politicians, not apparatchiks of the party itself. If Hogg wants to support politicians more to his liking, that’s fine. But doing it while an official of the party is indefensible. There is nothing wrong with Lutherans trying to convert Catholics to Lutheranism. But a Catholic priest trying to dragoon Lutherans into the Catholic Church—not to make them Catholics but to make the church more Lutheran—is not, shall we say, consistent with the job description. Okay, back to the rank punditry. Renew!You might not think this is a big deal, in part because it might not end up being a big deal. Also, he’s getting most of what he wants from this stunt by announcing it. And I don’t just mean attention. Older—by which I mean just plain old—Democrats are getting the message. Like when the Denny’s manager signals that the Early Bird Special window has closed by stacking the chairs on the table, old Democrats are getting the hint that it’s time to start working on their memoirs. We’ve entered the Logan’s Run phase of Democratic internal politics. No, they’re not putting their elders in weird bodysuits and blowing them up as the kids shout “Renew!” But the young’ns are making themselves heard.Illinois Sen. Dick Durban, 80, announced this week that he’s retiring. Rep. Jan Schakowsky, also 80, is expected to announce her retirement soon. San Francisco’s Democratic Party is considering mandatory retirement ages. Rumors that Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer is taking Steve Buscemi’s “Hello Fellow Kids” online courses, and has hired food tasters in furtherance of his desire to become the Deng Xiaoping of Democratic politics, could not be confirmed. Of course, one of the reasons the young’ns have the wind at their back is the debacle of Joe Biden. It’s not just that he was too old or infirm to run again—or really stay president. The whole Weekend at Bernie’s subterfuge understandably pissed off a lot of Democrats. The other reason is the generally hapless and feckless state of the Democratic Party. The theory seems to be that the reason the Democrats aren’t fighting back against Donald Trump more effectively is that it’s hard to march for justice while using a walker. Or something like that. It should be noted that if the Democratic Caucus in the House or Senate looked more like the cast of the Gilmore Girls than the Golden Girls, they still wouldn’t have the votes to thwart Trump. Now, despite my biases against Hogg and youth politics generally, I think the progressive Red Guard have a point. (That doesn’t excuse what Hogg is doing. You can simultaneously think Kaepernick had a good point about police abuse and think it was inappropriate for him to behave the way he did.)  There are too many oldsters in both parties. It’s not as dramatic as you might think. The median age of the House is 57.5. In the Senate, it’s 64.7. But as is always the case with youth movements, youth serves as cover for the real priorities—a desire for power and an ideological agenda. The desire for power part is not hard to explain. Politicians desire power. Young politicians always exaggerate the importance of youth because it’s their comparative advantage. Older politicians emphasize experience because that’s their comparative advantage. As for the ideology part, well, it’s worth noting that Bernie Sanders, who is 83 years old, recently filed paperwork to run for his Senate seat again … in 2030. And the Youth Brigades haven’t said boo about it. In other words, age is being weaponized against the Democrats the base doesn’t like, which is another way of saying age isn’t really the issue at all.         Whither democracy?I am torn.  Yesterday, I listened to Jamie Weinstein’s interview of Larry Diamond, an esteemed student of democracy and authoritarianism. I’m only exaggerating a little so I can use this clip from Monsters Inc., but Diamond’s position might be boiled down to, “It is my professional opinion that now is the time to panic!” Diamond, a very serious scholar, believes that Trump is moving in the direction of authoritarianism. He laid out his argument in an essay for Persuasion last February, “The Crisis of Democracy is Here.” No, he’s not Hitler. But Diamond sees Trump and his minions as moving in the direction of Hungary’s Viktor Orbán or Turkey’s Recep Tayyip Erdoğan.I find much of his argument sober and compelling. But I also read Bret Stephens’ New York Times column, “The Face-Plant President,” and heard him discuss it on the Commentary podcast. While he doesn’t put it in exactly these terms, he makes a convincing case that Trump is effectively destroying his presidency—and the GOP—on his own.  He opens with that famous quote from former British Prime Minister Harold MacMillan that what statesmen fear most is “events, dear boy, events,” and, rather remarkably, Donald Trump is being undone by events of his own making. I agree with that, though I will annoyingly note that it’s not confirmed that MacMillan uttered that quote. The two views are not necessarily mutually exclusive. Diamond allows for Trump’s incompetence, and Stephens concedes Trump’s authoritarian tendencies. But there is more than a little tension all the same. If the strongest version of Diamond’s argument is right, finding reassurance in Trump’s determination to undermine his own presidency seems like a risk not worth taking. If the strongest version of Stephens’ case is right, then Trump will continue to step on garden rakes and his presidency will unravel on its own accord. Stephens nods to this in his concluding paragraph:Democrats wondering how to oppose Trump most effectively might consider the following. Drop the dictator comparisons. Rehearse the above facts. Promise normality and offer plans to regain it. And remember that no matter how malignant he may be, there’s no better opponent than a face-plant president stumbling over his untied laces.Take the advice to Democrats out of it for a moment. The most obvious problem with this sentiment is that Trump’s incompetence could very well be the reason he doubles down on authoritarianism. Indeed, this is often how it works. Authoritarians screw up the economy, which invites criticism, and because the authoritarian cannot fix the economy (for the same reasons they screwed up in the first place) they decide to silence the critics. Outrage over the crackdown and dissatisfaction with the economy threaten the authoritarian’s hold on power, so the authoritarian uses even more extra-legal mechanisms to stay in power. For every “successful” authoritarian like former Singaporean Prime Minister Lee Kuan Yew, there are a dozen unsuccessful ones who follow something like this pattern. Even discounting for non-authoritarian motivations—Trump doesn’t want to seem like a lame duck, Trumpists love trolling, Trump loves to monetize trolling—it’s not a great sign that Trump world is rolling out the Trump 2028 merch. It’s going to be a gas watching Republican senators explain why they are for Trump pursuing all legal options to run again rather than take their spines out of cold storage and explain that there are no legal options for him to run again. Indeed, that’s always been the pattern with Trump. It is his unfitness and incompetence that drives the effort to shore him up rather than discard him. His obvious ignorance has to be spun as a greater genius that we cannot see. Rather than marshal the moral courage to defend the rules and the institutions elected Republicans have quite literally sworn to defend, they pretend that some deus ex machina will kick in and solve the problem for them. This was true of the Republican Party in 2016, 2020, and 2024. Like Steve Gutenberg in Diner, they simply say, “It’s out of my hands.” Diamond rightly says this is the crux of the problem. So long as civic-minded Republicans, particularly in Congress, act as if they have no duty or obligation to say “Enough!” Trump and his willing accomplices will keep testing the system in pursuit of staying in power. Politically, I agree with Stephens—and James Carville—that the smartest thing for Democrats to do is let Trump continue to face-plant. But I can’t help but think that in 10 or 20 years, this might look like part of the democratic decay Diamond frets over. I don’t have a lot of confidence that a party being taken over by the Hoggses of the world will suddenly embark on rebuilding the guardrails Trump has torn down. Biden didn’t, and he was elected to restore “normalcy.” Biden’s lawless attempt to forgive student loans and his bullying of social media companies are part of the apocalyptic narrative the Trumpists use to justify Trump’s lawlessness. This sort of “you did it, so can we” logic has been the defining spirit of our politics for a decade now. When you point out that Trump’s targeting of political opponents is outrageous, the response from MAGA world is, “They tried to put Trump in jail!” I think some of the cases against Trump were wholly justified. But that’s not the point. Each side follows a version of the Chicago Way of politics. They bring a knife, you bring a gun. It doesn’t matter if the reality is not what the opposing side claims—what they imagine is all the permission they need. Biden didn’t pack the Supreme Court, but the belief that he might cave to the Hogg types partly fueled the panic on the right and further justified rallying around Trump. I’ve complained a lot about how Trump has taught a generation of young Republicans that politics is all about “cry more, lib” tactics. But he’s also taught a whole generation of Democrats that they should fight fire with fire. I mean, Hogg launched a pillow company to compete with Mike Lindell. You know, because that’ll show the MAGAs. It’s all so stupid. But it’s also dangerous. 
    1993: 11/22 Little Rock
    1996; 9/28 New York
    1997: 11/14 Oakland, 11/15 Oakland
    1998: 7/5 Dallas, 7/7 Albuquerque, 7/8 Phoenix, 7/10 San Diego, 7/11 Las Vegas
    2000: 10/17 Dallas
    2003: 4/3 OKC
    2012: 11/17 Tulsa(EV), 11/18 Tulsa(EV)
    2013: 11/16 OKC
    2014: 10/8 Tulsa
    2022: 9/20 OKC
    2023: 9/13 Ft Worth, 9/15 Ft Worth
  • Tim SimmonsTim Simmons Posts: 8,813

  • DE4173DE4173 Posts: 1,833
    It's a good read, IMO. ✌️
    1993: 11/22 Little Rock
    1996; 9/28 New York
    1997: 11/14 Oakland, 11/15 Oakland
    1998: 7/5 Dallas, 7/7 Albuquerque, 7/8 Phoenix, 7/10 San Diego, 7/11 Las Vegas
    2000: 10/17 Dallas
    2003: 4/3 OKC
    2012: 11/17 Tulsa(EV), 11/18 Tulsa(EV)
    2013: 11/16 OKC
    2014: 10/8 Tulsa
    2022: 9/20 OKC
    2023: 9/13 Ft Worth, 9/15 Ft Worth
  • Lerxst1992Lerxst1992 Posts: 7,292



    The lines  below are the kicker. Similar to article posted by httm here yesterday with the phrase, it’s called “dark woke.”

    so the way Dems are going to get support from moderates and swing staters is tb be an asshole just like trump?

    I mean, its obviously happening all the time these days 

    “ They bring a knife, you bring a gun. It doesn’t matter if the reality is not what the opposing side claims—what they imagine is all the permission they need …But he’s also taught a whole generation of Democrats that they should fight fire with fire. I mean, Hogg launched a pillow company to compete with Mike Lindell. You know, because that’ll show the MAGAs. It’s all so stupid. But it’s also dangerous. 
  • Tim SimmonsTim Simmons Posts: 8,813
    edited April 26
    So we criticize Democrats for not having ideas that appeal to majority and then when the response from Dems is 'maybe we do have stale ideas and need fresh blood and a new approach', we shit on them for it? 

    I mean, Goldberg has an agenda writing that bit on Hogg.
    Post edited by Tim Simmons on
  • DE4173DE4173 Posts: 1,833
    That was your take away from reading the article?
    1993: 11/22 Little Rock
    1996; 9/28 New York
    1997: 11/14 Oakland, 11/15 Oakland
    1998: 7/5 Dallas, 7/7 Albuquerque, 7/8 Phoenix, 7/10 San Diego, 7/11 Las Vegas
    2000: 10/17 Dallas
    2003: 4/3 OKC
    2012: 11/17 Tulsa(EV), 11/18 Tulsa(EV)
    2013: 11/16 OKC
    2014: 10/8 Tulsa
    2022: 9/20 OKC
    2023: 9/13 Ft Worth, 9/15 Ft Worth
  • Lerxst1992Lerxst1992 Posts: 7,292
    So we criticize Democrats for not having ideas that appeal to majority and then when the response from Dems is 'maybe we do have stale ideas and need fresh blood and a new approach', we shit on them for it? 

    I mean, Goldberg has an agenda writing that bit on Hogg.

    They DO have ideas that appeal to the public. The problem is they are pushed by the extreme of the party that’s terrible at messaging and campaigning, and constantly want to play let’s pick winners and losers. Don’t give minorities top notch education and training, let’s just fire white dudes and hand them jobs. The middle sees this as another version of a handout.

    Let’s tell the public that one of our flagship universities needed to shut down with ugly protests because Palestinians were upset at a war. Well, the truth was it was foreigners on visa here temporarily to study and they were supporting Hamas, with violence and propaganda.

    lets give undocumented immigrants , who overran ny with disobedience and crime, luxury hotels. 

    When endless news clips and you tube videos make our most visible blue city look like a trash bag during an election year, and then pretend none of that happened, and fail at doing a retrospect.

    Been shouting about his for three months here and there is a reason Dems are too dense to figure out how to reach the middle. Begins with an a. Not u tho. You try.
  • Tim SimmonsTim Simmons Posts: 8,813
    edited April 26
    DE4173 said:
    That was your take away from reading the article?
    I mean, fine Hogg has a conflict of interest I'll concede that. But I also think dems are stale so ultimately, the conflict doesn't bother me that much. If its an issue, well garbage has a way of taking itself out. But Goldberg is just getting a ball rolling by doing this and its not in good faith. The agenda he represents stands athwart Liberalism (see what I did there?). He spends half the space writing about Hogg, basically doing bits before he gets to the point. 

    the Trump stuff *waves hand* fine. some good points. But he has a lot of confidence saying just let Trump trip over his shoelaces and let the electorate respond, despite also saying this is when authoritarians double down. Sorry is the youth doesn't instill confidence in him, but also, we've been let down by the boomers and Gen X in office, so personally, I'm fine with new ideas and fresh blood.
    Post edited by Tim Simmons on
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 30,486

    Awesome
  • DE4173DE4173 Posts: 1,833
    edited April 26
    He did read all that tho...🤭


    "Awesome"



    1993: 11/22 Little Rock
    1996; 9/28 New York
    1997: 11/14 Oakland, 11/15 Oakland
    1998: 7/5 Dallas, 7/7 Albuquerque, 7/8 Phoenix, 7/10 San Diego, 7/11 Las Vegas
    2000: 10/17 Dallas
    2003: 4/3 OKC
    2012: 11/17 Tulsa(EV), 11/18 Tulsa(EV)
    2013: 11/16 OKC
    2014: 10/8 Tulsa
    2022: 9/20 OKC
    2023: 9/13 Ft Worth, 9/15 Ft Worth
  • Tim SimmonsTim Simmons Posts: 8,813
    edited April 26
    It was just some ball busting on the wall of text. Hopefully it wasn’t taken otherwise. 
  • DE4173DE4173 Posts: 1,833
    edited April 26
    No sir, I've gotten that a few times in the past. 🫣😂
    All good and all in fun! 🤜🤛 

    Post edited by DE4173 on
    1993: 11/22 Little Rock
    1996; 9/28 New York
    1997: 11/14 Oakland, 11/15 Oakland
    1998: 7/5 Dallas, 7/7 Albuquerque, 7/8 Phoenix, 7/10 San Diego, 7/11 Las Vegas
    2000: 10/17 Dallas
    2003: 4/3 OKC
    2012: 11/17 Tulsa(EV), 11/18 Tulsa(EV)
    2013: 11/16 OKC
    2014: 10/8 Tulsa
    2022: 9/20 OKC
    2023: 9/13 Ft Worth, 9/15 Ft Worth
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