Lerxst1992 said:

tbergs said:

Gern Blansten said:

cincybearcat said:

Gern Blansten said:

I know calling it a lie is politically convenient...Romney even made a comment saying that he lied and it was disgraceful or something but give me a break. Circumstances changed.

And, like I mentioned before, even Gowdy and Graham said that the charges wouldn't have happened if it weren't Biden's son.

He lied. Do you really not know what a lie is? He said he wouldn’t do something….then he did it. 

So you know for a fact that he intended to pardon at the point he was asked? Can I borrow your crystal ball? 

It doesn't matter what he was thinking internally, he lied by doing something he said he wouldn't do. The mental gymnastics he did later to take the action he said he wouldn't still makes it a lie based on his repeated public statements to the contrary. I'm not sure why you're trying to construct some new meaning of lying. Maybe his initial intent wasn't to lie, but he did the thing he said he wouldn't so it became a lie. People trying to project on his fear of what the incoming Trump admin will do are reaching in my opinion.

Let's go back to when he was still the candidate,  if he won relection, do you really think he wouldn't pardon his son in a 2nd term with nothing left to worry about? He just didn't think he'd have to go back on his word so quickly. I'd argue that at this point, he always knew he would do it unless Harris won and could do it for him.

cincybearcat said:

Gern Blansten said:

I know calling it a lie is politically convenient...Romney even made a comment saying that he lied and it was disgraceful or something but give me a break. Circumstances changed.

And, like I mentioned before, even Gowdy and Graham said that the charges wouldn't have happened if it weren't Biden's son.

He lied. Do you really not know what a lie is? He said he wouldn’t do something….then he did it. 

He changed his mind due to the increasingly unhinged comments by the opposition leader over the last three months, specifically related to going after the enemy within.

If you don't believe you would not make the same exact change of mind in this situation, imo you are not being honest with yerselves.


Edit, reading the comparison to USSC and abortion, if you have a specific example of a significant change in abortions, there could be a comparable there. But there is no such change. Biden is reacting specifically to the unhinged comments where 47 specifically threatened him and his family. Saying, "well they might see it differently under a new case" is not being specific. 

I think you're trying really hard to make something true that isn't. Biden, and pretty much all dems, have been spouting about Trump as a threat to democracy for years with it peaking the last 6 months to the point of comparisons to being fascist or nazi-esque. You're trying to convince me that even though Biden and his party were already saying stuff like that about Trump that he still wasn't sure he would pardon Hunter? I think what he really should have said is that he would only pardon Hunter if Trump was elected because of the threat he poses to unbiased justice and respect for the rule of law. I don't know though, maybe he didn't want to put himself in another political pickle by even saying that, but it's also been pretty clear for a long time what a 2nd Trump presidency would look like.

As for the abortion comparison, you don't agree that something changed, but others do, including the justices. I don't agree with them or their reasons because the support of their reasons is lacking. Same as it is for Biden. So is it only a "changed mind" instead of a lie if you agree with the reasons provided? I think we're wading in to some muddy waters if that's the standard. This isn't like me telling my wife I am coming straight home, but then I stop for gas because I didn't realize my tank was low. I think certain situations can be perceived in such a way that allow reasonable people to know when it's an intentionally misleading statement and when it truly is an unknown.

mickeyrat said:

cincybearcat said:

Gern Blansten said:

cincybearcat said:

Gern Blansten said:

I know calling it a lie is politically convenient...Romney even made a comment saying that he lied and it was disgraceful or something but give me a break. Circumstances changed.

And, like I mentioned before, even Gowdy and Graham said that the charges wouldn't have happened if it weren't Biden's son.

He lied. Do you really not know what a lie is? He said he wouldn’t do something….then he did it. 

So you know for a fact that he intended to pardon at the point he was asked? Can I borrow your crystal ball? 

What are you trying to say? 

Thought of this yestetday and wasnt going to post it.

changed my mind.

show me on the doll where hunter touched you.

I know a few strippers that can answer that question.

mace1229 said:

tbergs said:

mickeyrat said:

cincybearcat said:

Gern Blansten said:

cincybearcat said:

Gern Blansten said:

I know calling it a lie is politically convenient...Romney even made a comment saying that he lied and it was disgraceful or something but give me a break. Circumstances changed.

And, like I mentioned before, even Gowdy and Graham said that the charges wouldn't have happened if it weren't Biden's son.

He lied. Do you really not know what a lie is? He said he wouldn’t do something….then he did it. 

So you know for a fact that he intended to pardon at the point he was asked? Can I borrow your crystal ball? 

What are you trying to say? 

DO YOU EVER HAVE OCCASION TO CHANGE YOUR MIND?

Why are you jumping through hoops on this issue? It's weird to see all of the defense for Biden on this. It really isn't a big deal because I think any rational person expected him to pardon his son at some point. He lied. It's fine, Trump maliciously lies all the time and no one cares. Biden lied about his intentions because he thought it was political suicide at the time and was right to assume that it would have been. This is actually more of a normal political lie and one that could just die if people didn't keep trying to justify it.

I agree with this with the exception of the sweeping pardon. You are right, most of us probably expected him to do it ( I know I did) and we understand it would be giving away the election if he advertised it at the time. Had he just pardoned him for what he had been charged and found guilty of that would have been one thing. Its the blanket any and all charges for 11 years, even ones not known of yet, that warrants scrutiny. 

My opinion is that there would have been no pardon if Harris had won. I do think that the Biden's were willing to accept the charges because they knew there would likely not be any prison time.

It's all the revenge bullshit and trump's unfortunate victory that led to the pardon.

mace1229 said:

Gern Blansten said:

mace1229 said:

tbergs said:

mickeyrat said:

cincybearcat said:

Gern Blansten said:

cincybearcat said:

Gern Blansten said:

I know calling it a lie is politically convenient...Romney even made a comment saying that he lied and it was disgraceful or something but give me a break. Circumstances changed.

And, like I mentioned before, even Gowdy and Graham said that the charges wouldn't have happened if it weren't Biden's son.

He lied. Do you really not know what a lie is? He said he wouldn’t do something….then he did it. 

So you know for a fact that he intended to pardon at the point he was asked? Can I borrow your crystal ball? 

What are you trying to say? 

DO YOU EVER HAVE OCCASION TO CHANGE YOUR MIND?

Why are you jumping through hoops on this issue? It's weird to see all of the defense for Biden on this. It really isn't a big deal because I think any rational person expected him to pardon his son at some point. He lied. It's fine, Trump maliciously lies all the time and no one cares. Biden lied about his intentions because he thought it was political suicide at the time and was right to assume that it would have been. This is actually more of a normal political lie and one that could just die if people didn't keep trying to justify it.

I agree with this with the exception of the sweeping pardon. You are right, most of us probably expected him to do it ( I know I did) and we understand it would be giving away the election if he advertised it at the time. Had he just pardoned him for what he had been charged and found guilty of that would have been one thing. Its the blanket any and all charges for 11 years, even ones not known of yet, that warrants scrutiny. 

My opinion is that there would have been no pardon if Harris had won. I do think that the Biden's were willing to accept the charges because they knew there would likely not be any prison time.

It's all the revenge bullshit and trump's unfortunate victory that led to the pardon.

Maybe. But the weird part is, why not wait until sentencing this month? Isn't the judge and everyone else in charge of the process the same no matter who won?
That's the weirdest part to me, why not wait? He probably would have just gotten a fine and probation anyway, I don't see Hunter serving prison time. And if he was sentenced to prison, then pardon him citing it was an unjust sentence. If not, let him pay the fine and serve probation and then there's no backlash. He had time to wait and see what the sentence was. 

My only guess would be the pardon came now just in case there was harsh prison time. Although I'm not sure if the reaction would be different if they had waited. Pardoning a fine looks worse than pardoning prison time in my opinion.

eddiec said:

It's just crazy that there's agreement that Joe would have been committing political suicide if he said he was going to pardon his son over tax evasion, but Trump openly says he'll pardon the J6ers and he gets elected.

And people say both sides are the same? It's bizarro world.

It is bizarre, but not for these reasons.  Trump at least said he was going to pardon people and people voted for him whether they wanted him to or in spite of it.  But the key thing is they knew it.  Now, we'll see if Trump ends up a liar on this front as we'll have to see if ultimately does pardon them.

The difference here is that Biden lied.  I think we are all taught as kids that lying about something could be a lot worse than the something you are lying about.  In this case, pardoning Hunter is well within the president's right, but it is the lie that people are up in arms about.  

You (not pointed at eddiec) can say he changed his mind, but don't expect everyone to believe it.  Clearly most aren't.  Like I said before, time and time again the left on this board justify anything for politicians/parties they support.   The only difference is there is a lot more for Republicans to have to justify with Trump.    

bootlegger10 said:

eddiec said:

It's just crazy that there's agreement that Joe would have been committing political suicide if he said he was going to pardon his son over tax evasion, but Trump openly says he'll pardon the J6ers and he gets elected.

And people say both sides are the same? It's bizarro world.

It is bizarre, but not for these reasons.  Trump at least said he was going to pardon people and people voted for him whether they wanted him to or in spite of it.  But the key thing is they knew it.  Now, we'll see if Trump ends up a liar on this front as we'll have to see if ultimately does pardon them.

The difference here is that Biden lied.  I think we are all taught as kids that lying about something could be a lot worse than the something you are lying about.  In this case, pardoning Hunter is well within the president's right, but it is the lie that people are up in arms about.  

You (not pointed at eddiec) can say he changed his mind, but don't expect everyone to believe it.  Clearly most aren't.  Like I said before, time and time again the left on this board justify anything for politicians/parties they support.   The only difference is there is a lot more for Republicans to have to justify with Trump.    

But you don't know that for a fact. That's my only point. Unless Biden comes out and says "I lied" we simply don't know for sure.

cincybearcat said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Lie implies intent to mislead/knowing what you are saying is untrue at the time you said it. 

What Biden is claiming is that he reneged. 

We’ll never know which is true, but I know what I would have done. 

This is all semantics.  If Trump had done this I would venture to guess the vast majority of you would be singing a different tune.

Y'all probably bought Slick Willy's stupid argument during his investigation.

He did pardon Kushner's father. I really don't remember much hubub over that one, at least until Trump appointed him ambassador to France. But maybe the reaction to that appointment was deflection from what Joe just did.

HughFreakingDillon said:

cincybearcat said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Lie implies intent to mislead/knowing what you are saying is untrue at the time you said it. 

What Biden is claiming is that he reneged. 

We’ll never know which is true, but I know what I would have done. 

This is all semantics.  If Trump had done this I would venture to guess the vast majority of you would be singing a different tune.

Y'all probably bought Slick Willy's stupid argument during his investigation.

If Trump had done this I believe he would have intended to lie 100%. Because he’s pathological. Biden isn’t (to my knowledge). Really odd that you think that’s apples to apples. 

And no, I didn’t. That was another point in American history where the world was laughing. And *gasp* it was a DEMOCRAT. THAT CANNOT BE TRUE!!! Liberals thought a democrat was a sleazy liar? Don’t they know what team they’re on???

Yeah I don't think I'm a Biden apologist but I don't get the confidence calling it a "lie."

If you want to believe it's a lie that's fine but that doesn't change the fact that you don't know whether it was a lie or not.