#46 President Joe Biden

tempo_n_groove

To say one thing and do the opposite is a lie.  Holy shit people...

Gern Blansten

Me: I'm not going to sell my truck. I love it and no reason to buy a new one.

TNG: Gern....I will pay you $50,000 for your $10,000 truck

Me: SOLD!

TNG: FUCKING LIAR!!!!

tbergs

This argument about lying reminds me of Kellyanne's "alternative facts" nonsense.

Gern Blansten

tbergs said:

Lerxst1992 said:

tbergs said:

Gern Blansten said:

cincybearcat said:

Gern Blansten said:

I know calling it a lie is politically convenient...Romney even made a comment saying that he lied and it was disgraceful or something but give me a break. Circumstances changed.

And, like I mentioned before, even Gowdy and Graham said that the charges wouldn't have happened if it weren't Biden's son.

He lied. Do you really not know what a lie is? He said he wouldn’t do something….then he did it. 

So you know for a fact that he intended to pardon at the point he was asked? Can I borrow your crystal ball? 

It doesn't matter what he was thinking internally, he lied by doing something he said he wouldn't do. The mental gymnastics he did later to take the action he said he wouldn't still makes it a lie based on his repeated public statements to the contrary. I'm not sure why you're trying to construct some new meaning of lying. Maybe his initial intent wasn't to lie, but he did the thing he said he wouldn't so it became a lie. People trying to project on his fear of what the incoming Trump admin will do are reaching in my opinion.

Let's go back to when he was still the candidate,  if he won relection, do you really think he wouldn't pardon his son in a 2nd term with nothing left to worry about? He just didn't think he'd have to go back on his word so quickly. I'd argue that at this point, he always knew he would do it unless Harris won and could do it for him.

cincybearcat said:

Gern Blansten said:

I know calling it a lie is politically convenient...Romney even made a comment saying that he lied and it was disgraceful or something but give me a break. Circumstances changed.

And, like I mentioned before, even Gowdy and Graham said that the charges wouldn't have happened if it weren't Biden's son.

He lied. Do you really not know what a lie is? He said he wouldn’t do something….then he did it. 

He changed his mind due to the increasingly unhinged comments by the opposition leader over the last three months, specifically related to going after the enemy within.

If you don't believe you would not make the same exact change of mind in this situation, imo you are not being honest with yerselves.


Edit, reading the comparison to USSC and abortion, if you have a specific example of a significant change in abortions, there could be a comparable there. But there is no such change. Biden is reacting specifically to the unhinged comments where 47 specifically threatened him and his family. Saying, "well they might see it differently under a new case" is not being specific. 

I think you're trying really hard to make something true that isn't. Biden, and pretty much all dems, have been spouting about Trump as a threat to democracy for years with it peaking the last 6 months to the point of comparisons to being fascist or nazi-esque. You're trying to convince me that even though Biden and his party were already saying stuff like that about Trump that he still wasn't sure he would pardon Hunter? I think what he really should have said is that he would only pardon Hunter if Trump was elected because of the threat he poses to unbiased justice and respect for the rule of law. I don't know though, maybe he didn't want to put himself in another political pickle by even saying that, but it's also been pretty clear for a long time what a 2nd Trump presidency would look like.

As for the abortion comparison, you don't agree that something changed, but others do, including the justices. I don't agree with them or their reasons because the support of their reasons is lacking. Same as it is for Biden. So is it only a "changed mind" instead of a lie if you agree with the reasons provided? I think we're wading in to some muddy waters if that's the standard. This isn't like me telling my wife I am coming straight home, but then I stop for gas because I didn't realize my tank was low. I think certain situations can be perceived in such a way that allow reasonable people to know when it's an intentionally misleading statement and when it truly is an unknown.

Don't forget to add most of trump's prior admin as calling him a threat...it wasn't just dems. It was the people that worked the closest to him INCLUDING HIS OWN VP AND CHIEF(S) OF STAFF

HughFreakingDillon

tempo_n_groove said:

To say one thing and do the opposite is a lie.  Holy shit people...

to me, intent matters. I actually say this to my kids. When they call me a liar for saying one thing and doing another, "sometimes circumstances change"

Merkin Baller

Going back on one's word is not the same as telling a lie, if we're going to get into the semantics of it all, but I get it. He said he wouldn't do something & then he did it. It is what it is. 

I understand why he said he wouldn't pardon his son, and I also understand why he did pardon him when all was said & done. I don't agree with it all, but considering the last 5 / 6 years of investigations, and what's sure to be 4 more years of relentless investigations, I understand it.

mace1229

OnWis97 said:

cincybearcat said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Lie implies intent to mislead/knowing what you are saying is untrue at the time you said it. 

What Biden is claiming is that he reneged. 

We’ll never know which is true, but I know what I would have done. 

This is all semantics.  If Trump had done this I would venture to guess the vast majority of you would be singing a different tune.

Y'all probably bought Slick Willy's stupid argument during his investigation.

He did pardon Kushner's father. I really don't remember much hubub over that one, at least until Trump appointed him ambassador to France. But maybe the reaction to that appointment was deflection from what Joe just did.

It wasn't a big deal because he was already released from jail like 10 years ago and served his time. Not really comparable to a sweeping universal pardon for any and all crimes before sentencing. 

shecky

The most shocking aspect of President Biden pardoning his own son, Hunter, may be that it was not in the least shocking, given the history of the Biden family. This abuse of the pardon power was widely anticipated even by his allies as the president repeatedly denied that he would ever do such a thing as he ran for reelection. Indeed, it may be the single most premeditated unethical act in political history.

However, it may not achieve what President Biden most hopes for: a clean slate for his son and himself in this massive corruption scandal.

Roughly two years ago, I wrote about how Biden might suddenly withdraw from the presidential race in 2024 and pardon his son as a lame-duck president. “The pardon-and-apology approach might appeal to Biden not only as an effort to convert vice into virtue but to justify his withdrawal from the election as a selfless act,” I wrote.

I further noted: “Everyone in Washington would win — except, of course, the public: The Bidens would keep alleged millions in influence-peddling profits; Hunter would not even have to pay his full taxes; members of Congress and the media could avoid taking responsibility for burying the reports of corruption.”

I wrote about the pardon option repeatedly because none of Hunter’s bizarre (and ultimately unsuccessful) criminal defenses made sense unless he felt confident that his father would pardon him in the end. Hunter’s taunting Congress with open contempt of a subpoena and his ridiculous defenses in court were not the actions of someone who feared consequences from these investigations. They were the actions of someone with a pocket pardon.

NBC is reporting that Hunter’s pardon was being discussed in the White House for a long time, even as Biden and his staff were steadfastly denying that he would issue a pardon. As with his years of denying knowledge of Hunter’s business dealings and meeting his clients, Biden simply lied over and over again to the public.

The eventual pardon restored what was a sweetheart deal reached with Special Counsel David Weiss that would have given Hunter immunity to the immediate charges and any unnamed criminal charges. It collapsed in court when Judge Maryellen Noreika expressed shock at such a deal and asked the prosecutor if he had ever seen such a deal offered to any other defendant. He admitted that he had not.

Now, President Biden has recreated an even more sweeping immunity grant through his own powers by pardoning his son not only for the crimes of which he was convicted, but of any crimes committed between Jan. 1, 2014 to Dec. 1, 2024.

Think on that. It would cover anything from perjury to murder.

Now it makes sense why Hunter seemed to be engaged in what I described as a “game of chicken with himself.” As a criminal defense attorney, I noted that wild moves in and outside of the courts would make sense only if he knew that his dad would cover him in the end if everything went poorly — even as the president was assuring the public that he would never do such a thing.

In a final show of contempt for the American people, President Biden waited until a Sunday before an international trip to commit this unethical act. He brushed over his past lies by saying that “From the day I took office, I said I would not interfere with the Justice Department’s decision-making, and I kept my word.” What he actually said, over and over again, was that he would never pardon his son.

For many in the media who helped bury this scandal and showed no interest in pursuing the influence-peddling operation of the Biden family, the pardon was met with uncomfortable shrugs. It is a measure of what you can call “Biden ethics.” In the curious world of Joe Biden, a lie that no one believes is treated the same as the truth.

It is likely to work. There may be little interest in pursuing this corruption scandal with so much to get done in the new administration. However, it is not the absolute “get-out-of-jail-free” card that President Biden would like.

Hunter could still be called to testify before Congress or with investigators on the influence-peddling efforts. If he lies, it will be a new crime for which this pardon would not bar prosecution. He would no longer be able to count on a pocket pardon as an insurance policy.

Short of such continued investigation, the Bidens will have achieved something that would have made John Gotti blush. They were able to pull in millions of alleged influence-peddling proceeds. Hunter was showered with gifts and benefits, from a diamond to a luxury sports car. Various Biden family members reportedly received money from the operation. President Biden was himself accused of knowledge and possible benefits from the influence peddling. He will also be protected by this official act.

This is why I once wrote that the Bidens are the GOATs of influence peddling. While influence peddling is the most common form of corruption in Washington, this city has never seen the likes of the Bidens. The only thing greater than their appetite was their sheer audacity.

In this statement on the pardon before fleeing the jurisdiction for a foreign trip, President Biden notably stated that “in trying to break Hunter, they’ve tried to break me.” Indeed, this corruption scandal is as much about the president as it is about his son. And, as the president previously declared, “No one f—- with a Biden.”

Jonathan Turley is the Shapiro professor of public interest law at George Washington University and the author of “The Indispensable Right: Free Speech in an Age of Rage.”

tempo_n_groove

HughFreakingDillon said:

tempo_n_groove said:

To say one thing and do the opposite is a lie.  Holy shit people...

to me, intent matters. I actually say this to my kids. When they call me a liar for saying one thing and doing another, "sometimes circumstances change"

So you admittingly lie to your kids?

I'm kidding.  But got ya!

tempo_n_groove

Merkin Baller said:

Going back on one's word is not the same as telling a lie, if we're going to get into the semantics of it all, but I get it. He said he wouldn't do something & then he did it. It is what it is. 

I understand why he said he wouldn't pardon his son, and I also understand why he did pardon him when all was said & done. I don't agree with it all, but considering the last 5 / 6 years of investigations, and what's sure to be 4 more years of relentless investigations, I understand it.

He lied too.

shecky

"In a final show of contempt for the American people, President Biden waited until a Sunday before an international trip to commit this unethical act. He brushed over his past lies by saying that “From the day I took office, I said I would not interfere with the Justice Department’s decision-making, and I kept my word.” What he actually said, over and over again, was that he would never pardon his son.

For many in the media who helped bury this scandal and showed no interest in pursuing the influence-peddling operation of the Biden family, the pardon was met with uncomfortable shrugs. It is a measure of what you can call “Biden ethics.” In the curious world of Joe Biden, a lie that no one believes is treated the same as the truth."

(Quote from Jonathan Turley, a law professor at George Washington University)

Merkin Baller

tempo_n_groove said:

Merkin Baller said:

Going back on one's word is not the same as telling a lie, if we're going to get into the semantics of it all, but I get it. He said he wouldn't do something & then he did it. It is what it is. 

I understand why he said he wouldn't pardon his son, and I also understand why he did pardon him when all was said & done. I don't agree with it all, but considering the last 5 / 6 years of investigations, and what's sure to be 4 more years of relentless investigations, I understand it.

He lied too.

lol

Go Beavers

shecky said:

"In a final show of contempt for the American people, President Biden waited until a Sunday before an international trip to commit this unethical act. He brushed over his past lies by saying that “From the day I took office, I said I would not interfere with the Justice Department’s decision-making, and I kept my word.” What he actually said, over and over again, was that he would never pardon his son.

For many in the media who helped bury this scandal and showed no interest in pursuing the influence-peddling operation of the Biden family, the pardon was met with uncomfortable shrugs. It is a measure of what you can call “Biden ethics.” In the curious world of Joe Biden, a lie that no one believes is treated the same as the truth."

(Quote from Jonathan Turley, a law professor at George Washington University)

Trump shill Turley is upset about an ethical issue. Lol. 

shecky

Go Beavers said:

shecky said:

"In a final show of contempt for the American people, President Biden waited until a Sunday before an international trip to commit this unethical act. He brushed over his past lies by saying that “From the day I took office, I said I would not interfere with the Justice Department’s decision-making, and I kept my word.” What he actually said, over and over again, was that he would never pardon his son.

For many in the media who helped bury this scandal and showed no interest in pursuing the influence-peddling operation of the Biden family, the pardon was met with uncomfortable shrugs. It is a measure of what you can call “Biden ethics.” In the curious world of Joe Biden, a lie that no one believes is treated the same as the truth."

(Quote from Jonathan Turley, a law professor at George Washington University)

Trump shill Turley is upset about an ethical issue. Lol. 

Professor Turley is one of our nation's most brilliant legal minds. He doesn't shill for anyone. And he certainly is not upset, hahaha!

Go Beavers

shecky said:

Go Beavers said:

shecky said:

"In a final show of contempt for the American people, President Biden waited until a Sunday before an international trip to commit this unethical act. He brushed over his past lies by saying that “From the day I took office, I said I would not interfere with the Justice Department’s decision-making, and I kept my word.” What he actually said, over and over again, was that he would never pardon his son.

For many in the media who helped bury this scandal and showed no interest in pursuing the influence-peddling operation of the Biden family, the pardon was met with uncomfortable shrugs. It is a measure of what you can call “Biden ethics.” In the curious world of Joe Biden, a lie that no one believes is treated the same as the truth."

(Quote from Jonathan Turley, a law professor at George Washington University)

Trump shill Turley is upset about an ethical issue. Lol. 

Professor Turley is one of our nation's most brilliant legal minds. He doesn't shill for anyone. And he certainly is not upset, hahaha!

Sure thing. Find a lawyer who has credibility and post their article in here. 

bootlegger10

That quote from the judge was telling.  

I wonder if Biden could have pardoned him for all past crimes but left the jury judgements in place.    Pardoning him for convictions that he said he wouldn’t pardon isn’t a change in circumstance.   

You have to be naive to think he wasn’t going to pardon him, or at best was still considering while deceiving the public by saying he wasn’t.

Same administration that thought Biden had the faculties to last another four years and clearly didn’t.  But the apologists on here say he is fine.    Millions could see he was losing it.  

bootlegger10

I really only post on AMT when I think Dems are being hypocritical.   If I was on a board that was pro Trump I would be posting about Republicans hypocrisy.  

HughFreakingDillon

the change of circumstance is obviously trump winning and saying he was going to go after all his enemies. 

none of us can know what his original intentions were. 

mrussel1

tempo_n_groove said:

To say one thing and do the opposite is a lie.  Holy shit people...

If I’m 22 and say I will never own a minivan, but then I buy a minivan, is that a lie?  Not really. 

If I buy a minivan and then later said I’ve never bought a minivan, is that a lie? Yes it is. 

eddiec

HughFreakingDillon said:

the change of circumstance is obviously trump winning and saying he was going to go after all his enemies. 

none of us can know what his original intentions were. 

And he couldn't go after Biden, so he'd go after his son.