“PJ Premium” on Ticketmaster?
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Vedd Hedd said:OceansJenny said:Real question is how many fans are being alienated by the shuts outs and platinum sticker shock? If I was a casual fan and logged on to see $5,000 tickets I might not bother next time a tour is announced. Maybe TM doesn’t care if they get their max return each time but you think the band would care.DC '03 - Reading '04 - Philly '05 - Camden 1 '06 - DC '06 - E. Rutherford '06 - The Vic '07 - Lollapalooza '07 - DC '08 - EV DC 1 & 2 '08 (Met Ed!!) - EV Baltimore 1 & 2 '09 - EV NYC 1 '11 (Met Ed!) - Hartford '13 - GCF '15 - MSG 2 '16 - TOTD MSG '16 - Boston 1 & 2 '18 - SHN '21 - EV NYC 1 & 2 '22 - MSG '220
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cmalisze said:Vedd Hedd said:cmalisze said:Vedd Hedd said:cmalisze said:brarble said:Poncier said:JR86440 said:People who complain about premium have never tried to run a business. There are sooooo many costs that go into running a business that people don’t see. It’s not as simple as multiplying 20k seats by $100 and dividing by 6 band members… counting Boom of course! Benefits for employees, liability insurance, salaries, rent, taxes, travel, crew, etc. Plus they need to Maher a profit. It’s not a non profit organization. $100 for 95% of the crowd for a band of PJ’s caliber is dirt cheap in my mind. And they aren’t the chili peppers who play 18 songs. Either need to accept premium or accept $150 tickets. Add in the fact that they have families to support I feel what they are doing is more than reasonable
And while I do love the old model... even this current model (mostly low cost tickets + a smattering of premium) is honestly not that bad compared to most other artists. If we're ranking all bands/artists on a spectrum of "fair pricing policies", even the "PJ Premium" method is better and more fair than 99% of the other bands out there. Honestly can't think of a single band or artist that has kept prices this low.
Most of these arenas seat around 17,000 ppl. I'm seeing about 50-100 Premium seats per show. I hate dynamic pricing as much as the next guy, but it's wild to me that ppl are getting this angry about the 0.5% of overpriced tickets while not appreciating that the other 99.5% are by far the lowest most reasonable you will find in any band/artist of Pearl Jam's level.
Or are you saying charge EVERYONE more, so that there are no premium seats?
Pearl Jammers Testify Before Congress : Pop music: Before a House panel, members of the Seattle band allege monopolistic practices by Ticketmaster, whose chief executive counters the charges. - Los Angeles Times (latimes.com)
I think the options were "Raise prices significantly across all levels to cover TM's requests" or "Keep some prices moderate, while allowing TM to keep some back and charge more, and in the process, the band gets more too"
I am ok with that.
Also, yeah, I think things change over the course of 30+ years. They did their time drudging through clubs, paying for their own travel and booking, charging 20 bucks a ticket, etc. They lasted, and they are a massively popular band whom everyone wants to see, and they dont have the energy or desire to tour 80 dates a year.
To be clear, I am not actually mad with the band or the 10c for doing whatever it is they wish to do. More power to them. They deserve it. We all wish to be in their position in our careers.
However, the hypocrisy in the overall circumstance is too overwhelming. To not be able to see it is to have blind loyalty, in my opinion.
First, I think this is more of a TM thing than a 10C or band thing.
But even in light of that...those days 30 years ago are long gone, as someone said. Trying to hold them to some idealistic standard that was set way back then is just unfair. If they want to tour, they have to play by the system that is in place. I'm sure they would rather play by a different set of rules, but they have to do what they can.
Remember the disaster when they tried to tour without TM? It was nearly impossible for people to get tickets. Forget fan clubs for a moment, just actually anyone getting to see them was a disaster.Turn this anger into
Nuclear fission0 -
Lifted said:Poncier said:Lifted said:It seems to me that the majority of people who are getting bent out of shape over the pj premium (platinum) tickets being sold, are misplacing their frustration...which should be directed solely toward ticketmaster. No one in the band is making extra money from platinum ticket sales. Ticketmaster is, and it's the cost of being forced to do business with them.
It's how Live Nation gets bands to agree to it. They divvy up the added revenue with the band, usually through a percentage of net profit from tix sales beyond the flat fee paid for the show/tour.
Do you really think PJ would agree to this and just let Ticketmaster and Live Nation (one and the same) reap the only financial benefit?
If there were no benefit to the band they wouldn't sign off on it, And be sure, they signed off on it.
You're suggesting it does, and perhaps it's possible you are right. Based on my knowledge of how ticketmaster operates as a business however, I highly doubt that is the case. Can you prove the band is receiving extra revenue from inflated platinum ticket sales? Do you know this for a fact?
Now it is true, on a Pearl Jam tour, the fan club tickets do become another factor that has to be considered and is something that is a part of the negotiation. But at the end of the day, it is 100 percent sure that Pearl Jam is making more money from the Platinum Ticketing.
And as far as how Ticketmaster operates as a business, that is a notion fans use to console themselves when an artist does something they don't like. Ticketmaster doesn't set pricing. Promoters and the artist do as part of the negotiations mentioned above. Of course, sometimes Live Nation is the promoter so that makes it murkier but TM does not set prices.0 -
OceansJenny said:uglybabo said:I’ve seen it mentioned but I think the one adjustment needed is that the PJ premium seats need to be transferable.If I buy a fan club ticket for $125-150, and I can sell it for face if I can’t go, there’s a good chance it’ll sell and at worst I’m out $150.But if I buy a premium seat for $2000+ and my only recourse is to list at $2000+ There’s a good chance it won’t sell, and I’ll lose $2000+.Ticketmaster/the band has their $2000, that they consider market value, so what I do with that ticket shouldn’t matter to them.0
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Agree there should be no Floor for selling tickets on fan2fan.0
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Fascinating thread. Clearly a polarizing topic. In the end, the most transparent way to do it is to just come out and charge higher ticket prices, at FIXED prices, throughout the venue. GA and best seats get Tier 1, whatever that may be. Good seats get Tier 2. Nosebleeds get Tier 3. They surely have a target revenue number going into each show and tour, so price the tickets accordingly. It is really that simple. No more smoke and mirror bullshit with the variable Platinum, I mean PJ, Pricing. And no more artificial scarcity.
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If they make GA the most, and then 100 Level tier 2, etc....then they are pricing out a bunch of fans. I like they way they did this better, to be honest.Turn this anger into
Nuclear fission0 -
Get_Right said:
You are missing the point and PJ lost that battle if you recall. The days of fixed prices for the entire event are gone. It is market based pricing through TM now. It is actually quite smart even though it is the fan that loses out. There is nothing "elite" about it. It is a monopoly in motion. The same monopoly is squeezing every artist out there. This has been going on for many years in different forms. It will only get worse until there is competition in the market.
I kind of felt like because the recording aspect of the business pays bunk now, that they're figuring out how to make more touring. One of those things was.. how do we dip into what the scalpers make off our tickets.
That's my thoughts. I think it'll continue because everyone gets paid more from it, but I'm not entirely convinced it's mandatory, but I would say it's hard to pass up in a world where you barely get paid to record music.0 -
Vedd Hedd said:If they make GA the most, and then 100 Level tier 2, etc....then they are pricing out a bunch of fans. I like they way they did this better, to be honest.
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Zod said:Get_Right said:
You are missing the point and PJ lost that battle if you recall. The days of fixed prices for the entire event are gone. It is market based pricing through TM now. It is actually quite smart even though it is the fan that loses out. There is nothing "elite" about it. It is a monopoly in motion. The same monopoly is squeezing every artist out there. This has been going on for many years in different forms. It will only get worse until there is competition in the market.
I kind of felt like because the recording aspect of the business pays bunk now, that they're figuring out how to make more touring. One of those things was.. how do we dip into what the scalpers make off our tickets.
That's my thoughts. I think it'll continue because everyone gets paid more from it, but I'm not entirely convinced it's mandatory, but I would say it's hard to pass up in a world where you barely get paid to record music.
That is also why you see newer artists...."Selling out" early...I hate to use that term, but radio is dead. Algorithims sometimes dictate what songs are played to you and they usually pick repeats...so some of these newer artists need to have their music heard in commercials or movies/tv/games, etc.
But yeah, touring is really the only thing the artist fully controls and can make real money off of.Turn this anger into
Nuclear fission0 -
bbiggs said:Vedd Hedd said:If they make GA the most, and then 100 Level tier 2, etc....then they are pricing out a bunch of fans. I like they way they did this better, to be honest.Turn this anger into
Nuclear fission0 -
I'll admit...when I saw the premium stuff for Ed's shows, I was like, "Hmm", but i didnt give it much more thought than that. With recent events, I'm just happy I get to still see them play live from time to time. Nothing is guaranteed.
Turn this anger into
Nuclear fission0 -
bbiggs said:Vedd Hedd said:If they make GA the most, and then 100 Level tier 2, etc....then they are pricing out a bunch of fans. I like they way they did this better, to be honest.___________________________________________
"...I changed by not changing at all..."0 -
Zod said:Get_Right said:
You are missing the point and PJ lost that battle if you recall. The days of fixed prices for the entire event are gone. It is market based pricing through TM now. It is actually quite smart even though it is the fan that loses out. There is nothing "elite" about it. It is a monopoly in motion. The same monopoly is squeezing every artist out there. This has been going on for many years in different forms. It will only get worse until there is competition in the market.
I kind of felt like because the recording aspect of the business pays bunk now, that they're figuring out how to make more touring. One of those things was.. how do we dip into what the scalpers make off our tickets.
That's my thoughts. I think it'll continue because everyone gets paid more from it, but I'm not entirely convinced it's mandatory, but I would say it's hard to pass up in a world where you barely get paid to record music.
I believe, without actually knowing, that it is very close to, if not, absolutely mandatory. They do not want to lose a nickel to the resellers and that is what is driving this. Not simply getting more for each show. They want to put stubhub out of business. This is all TM business strategy and modeling. TM withholds the seats from public sale and resellers cannot obtain them at the lower cost. Its that simple. It is not about the band, the fans or anything else. It is about selling tickets at the highest possible market price instead of a fixed pre-determined price.
They do not want to sell a ticket for $200 when someone will pay $600 for the same ticket. TM has very sophisticated and automated algorithms to understand the market prices and the exact timing to raise or lower prices based on demand. It is very smart from a business perspective. Hedge fund strategy being executed by a monopoly where the fan/consumer is the loser.
Edit: Live Nation is the promoter for most TM events. Guess who owns them? TM.Post edited by Get_Right on0 -
brarble said:Poncier said:JR86440 said:People who complain about premium have never tried to run a business. There are sooooo many costs that go into running a business that people don’t see. It’s not as simple as multiplying 20k seats by $100 and dividing by 6 band members… counting Boom of course! Benefits for employees, liability insurance, salaries, rent, taxes, travel, crew, etc. Plus they need to Maher a profit. It’s not a non profit organization. $100 for 95% of the crowd for a band of PJ’s caliber is dirt cheap in my mind. And they aren’t the chili peppers who play 18 songs. Either need to accept premium or accept $150 tickets. Add in the fact that they have families to support I feel what they are doing is more than reasonable
Most of these arenas seat around 17,000 ppl. I'm seeing about 50-100 Premium seats per show. I hate dynamic pricing as much as the next guy, but it's wild to me that ppl are getting this angry about the 0.5% of overpriced tickets while not appreciating that the other 99.5% are by far the lowest most reasonable you will find in any band/artist of Pearl Jam's level.
So while it's not thousands upon thousands, it's not 50-100, and also its the specific seats that used to be verbatim promised to 10 clubbers (floor directly behind pit, and best seats in lower bowl).This weekend we rock Portland0 -
JimmyV said:bbiggs said:Vedd Hedd said:If they make GA the most, and then 100 Level tier 2, etc....then they are pricing out a bunch of fans. I like they way they did this better, to be honest.0
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smile6680 said:JimmyV said:bbiggs said:Vedd Hedd said:If they make GA the most, and then 100 Level tier 2, etc....then they are pricing out a bunch of fans. I like they way they did this better, to be honest.___________________________________________
"...I changed by not changing at all..."0 -
smile6680 said:JimmyV said:bbiggs said:Vedd Hedd said:If they make GA the most, and then 100 Level tier 2, etc....then they are pricing out a bunch of fans. I like they way they did this better, to be honest.
NDA. Non-disclosure agreement. People have been trying to get visibility into TM for many years. With no luck. I have been saying for a very long time that is probably the only way to fight TM. Full public disclosure. Even then most governments have bigger problems.0 -
Vedd Hedd said:cmalisze said:Vedd Hedd said:cmalisze said:Vedd Hedd said:cmalisze said:brarble said:Poncier said:JR86440 said:People who complain about premium have never tried to run a business. There are sooooo many costs that go into running a business that people don’t see. It’s not as simple as multiplying 20k seats by $100 and dividing by 6 band members… counting Boom of course! Benefits for employees, liability insurance, salaries, rent, taxes, travel, crew, etc. Plus they need to Maher a profit. It’s not a non profit organization. $100 for 95% of the crowd for a band of PJ’s caliber is dirt cheap in my mind. And they aren’t the chili peppers who play 18 songs. Either need to accept premium or accept $150 tickets. Add in the fact that they have families to support I feel what they are doing is more than reasonable
And while I do love the old model... even this current model (mostly low cost tickets + a smattering of premium) is honestly not that bad compared to most other artists. If we're ranking all bands/artists on a spectrum of "fair pricing policies", even the "PJ Premium" method is better and more fair than 99% of the other bands out there. Honestly can't think of a single band or artist that has kept prices this low.
Most of these arenas seat around 17,000 ppl. I'm seeing about 50-100 Premium seats per show. I hate dynamic pricing as much as the next guy, but it's wild to me that ppl are getting this angry about the 0.5% of overpriced tickets while not appreciating that the other 99.5% are by far the lowest most reasonable you will find in any band/artist of Pearl Jam's level.
Or are you saying charge EVERYONE more, so that there are no premium seats?
Pearl Jammers Testify Before Congress : Pop music: Before a House panel, members of the Seattle band allege monopolistic practices by Ticketmaster, whose chief executive counters the charges. - Los Angeles Times (latimes.com)
I think the options were "Raise prices significantly across all levels to cover TM's requests" or "Keep some prices moderate, while allowing TM to keep some back and charge more, and in the process, the band gets more too"
I am ok with that.
Also, yeah, I think things change over the course of 30+ years. They did their time drudging through clubs, paying for their own travel and booking, charging 20 bucks a ticket, etc. They lasted, and they are a massively popular band whom everyone wants to see, and they dont have the energy or desire to tour 80 dates a year.
To be clear, I am not actually mad with the band or the 10c for doing whatever it is they wish to do. More power to them. They deserve it. We all wish to be in their position in our careers.
However, the hypocrisy in the overall circumstance is too overwhelming. To not be able to see it is to have blind loyalty, in my opinion.
First, I think this is more of a TM thing than a 10C or band thing.
But even in light of that...those days 30 years ago are long gone, as someone said. Trying to hold them to some idealistic standard that was set way back then is just unfair. If they want to tour, they have to play by the system that is in place. I'm sure they would rather play by a different set of rules, but they have to do what they can.
Remember the disaster when they tried to tour without TM? It was nearly impossible for people to get tickets. Forget fan clubs for a moment, just actually anyone getting to see them was a disaster.
I am NOT criticizing the business aspect of this tour or any for that matter. In fact, I hope they make a boat load of money, as they should because they are the greatest rock and roll band ever, in my mind. We all "work" and strive for a better life and I hold them to the same standard as I do myself. I wish I had a boat load of money too.
However, as I grew up and learned with Pearl Jam is that.....it is not OK being taken advantage of no matter what and certainly when it is for the benefit of profit. This is EXACTLY how this feels. It is ok to call out hypocrisy as you see it even to something or someone you love.
All I think we in the ten club could ask for is to be treated the same way the band wishes to be treated because this is what they helped instill in us, as fans.
I will be in Oakland come hell or high water.....still looking for a GA each night.Post edited by cmalisze on0 -
Get_Right said:smile6680 said:JimmyV said:bbiggs said:Vedd Hedd said:If they make GA the most, and then 100 Level tier 2, etc....then they are pricing out a bunch of fans. I like they way they did this better, to be honest.
NDA. Non-disclosure agreement. People have been trying to get visibility into TM for many years. With no luck. I have been saying for a very long time that is probably the only way to fight TM. Full public disclosure. Even then most governments have bigger problems.0
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