Unvaccinated?

Merkin Baller · September 2021

nicknyr15 said:

https://youtu.be/gteFcUlxjyY

Shut up and dribble

*** unfortunately I feel the need to come back and say I’m fully vaccinated. Instead of only focusing on lunatics who have insane conspiracy theories about the vaccination, there’s also plenty of people who sound like this guy that get brushed to the side.

I won't brush it aside, but with that being said, is there anything more to his logic than "I don't want to and you can't make me"?

I can sympathize with the hesitancy, I also had doubts at first, but in the very least, his position is ignorant to the burden the unvaccinated are putting on health care workers.

mickeyrat · September 2021

Merkin Baller said:

nicknyr15 said:

https://youtu.be/gteFcUlxjyY

Shut up and dribble

*** unfortunately I feel the need to come back and say I’m fully vaccinated. Instead of only focusing on lunatics who have insane conspiracy theories about the vaccination, there’s also plenty of people who sound like this guy that get brushed to the side.

I won't brush it aside, but with that being said, is there anything more to his logic than "I don't want to and you can't make me"?

I can sympathize with the hesitancy, I also had doubts at first, but in the very least, his position is ignorant to the burden the unvaccinated are putting on health care workers.

miss the part where he said he already had covid?

nicknyr15 · September 2021

Merkin Baller said:

nicknyr15 said:

https://youtu.be/gteFcUlxjyY

Shut up and dribble

*** unfortunately I feel the need to come back and say I’m fully vaccinated. Instead of only focusing on lunatics who have insane conspiracy theories about the vaccination, there’s also plenty of people who sound like this guy that get brushed to the side.

I won't brush it aside, but with that being said, is there anything more to his logic than "I don't want to and you can't make me"?

I can sympathize with the hesitancy, I also had doubts at first, but in the very least, his position is ignorant to the burden the unvaccinated are putting on health care workers.

There was a lot more. Guessed you missed it.

mickeyrat · September 2021

it IS still recommended to receive one dose with prior infection.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/can-you-get-covid-twice-what-to-know-about-coronavirus-reinfection/ar-BB1az7VK

Merkin Baller · September 2021

nicknyr15 said:

Merkin Baller said:

nicknyr15 said:

https://youtu.be/gteFcUlxjyY

Shut up and dribble

*** unfortunately I feel the need to come back and say I’m fully vaccinated. Instead of only focusing on lunatics who have insane conspiracy theories about the vaccination, there’s also plenty of people who sound like this guy that get brushed to the side.

I won't brush it aside, but with that being said, is there anything more to his logic than "I don't want to and you can't make me"?

I can sympathize with the hesitancy, I also had doubts at first, but in the very least, his position is ignorant to the burden the unvaccinated are putting on health care workers.

There was a lot more. Guessed you missed it.

I'm under the impression being vaccinated cuts down on rate of transmission, does having covid antibodies also cut down on rate of transmission? I genuinely don't know. He thinks he's all set having already had covid, good for him. What about the people around him?

& am I wrong in saying he's ignorant of the burden the unvaccinated are putting on the healthcare system? That in and of itself is a pretty important reason to get vaccinated if you can, no?

HughFreakingDillon · September 2021

Merkin Baller said:

nicknyr15 said:

Merkin Baller said:

nicknyr15 said:

https://youtu.be/gteFcUlxjyY

Shut up and dribble

*** unfortunately I feel the need to come back and say I’m fully vaccinated. Instead of only focusing on lunatics who have insane conspiracy theories about the vaccination, there’s also plenty of people who sound like this guy that get brushed to the side.

I won't brush it aside, but with that being said, is there anything more to his logic than "I don't want to and you can't make me"?

I can sympathize with the hesitancy, I also had doubts at first, but in the very least, his position is ignorant to the burden the unvaccinated are putting on health care workers.

There was a lot more. Guessed you missed it.

I'm under the impression being vaccinated cuts down on rate of transmission, does having covid antibodies also cut down on rate of transmission? I genuinely don't know. He thinks he's all set having already had covid, good for him. What about the people around him?

& am I wrong in saying he's ignorant of the burden the unvaccinated are putting on the healthcare system? That in and of itself is a pretty important reason to get vaccinated if you can, no?

I don't know, but i'd imagine that natural immunity mimics vaccinated immunity, so you'd be less likely to transmit if you had natural the same as vaccinated. but again, that's just my non-medical logic at play, nothing more.

Merkin Baller · September 2021

HughFreakingDillon said:

Merkin Baller said:

nicknyr15 said:

Merkin Baller said:

nicknyr15 said:

https://youtu.be/gteFcUlxjyY

Shut up and dribble

*** unfortunately I feel the need to come back and say I’m fully vaccinated. Instead of only focusing on lunatics who have insane conspiracy theories about the vaccination, there’s also plenty of people who sound like this guy that get brushed to the side.

I won't brush it aside, but with that being said, is there anything more to his logic than "I don't want to and you can't make me"?

I can sympathize with the hesitancy, I also had doubts at first, but in the very least, his position is ignorant to the burden the unvaccinated are putting on health care workers.

There was a lot more. Guessed you missed it.

I'm under the impression being vaccinated cuts down on rate of transmission, does having covid antibodies also cut down on rate of transmission? I genuinely don't know. He thinks he's all set having already had covid, good for him. What about the people around him?

& am I wrong in saying he's ignorant of the burden the unvaccinated are putting on the healthcare system? That in and of itself is a pretty important reason to get vaccinated if you can, no?

I don't know, but i'd imagine that natural immunity mimics vaccinated immunity, so you'd be less likely to transmit if you had natural the same as vaccinated. but again, that's just my non-medical logic at play, nothing more.

I genuinely don't know either.

PJPOWER · September 2021

Merkin Baller said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Merkin Baller said:

nicknyr15 said:

Merkin Baller said:

nicknyr15 said:

https://youtu.be/gteFcUlxjyY

Shut up and dribble

*** unfortunately I feel the need to come back and say I’m fully vaccinated. Instead of only focusing on lunatics who have insane conspiracy theories about the vaccination, there’s also plenty of people who sound like this guy that get brushed to the side.

I won't brush it aside, but with that being said, is there anything more to his logic than "I don't want to and you can't make me"?

I can sympathize with the hesitancy, I also had doubts at first, but in the very least, his position is ignorant to the burden the unvaccinated are putting on health care workers.

There was a lot more. Guessed you missed it.

I'm under the impression being vaccinated cuts down on rate of transmission, does having covid antibodies also cut down on rate of transmission? I genuinely don't know. He thinks he's all set having already had covid, good for him. What about the people around him?

& am I wrong in saying he's ignorant of the burden the unvaccinated are putting on the healthcare system? That in and of itself is a pretty important reason to get vaccinated if you can, no?

I don't know, but i'd imagine that natural immunity mimics vaccinated immunity, so you'd be less likely to transmit if you had natural the same as vaccinated. but again, that's just my non-medical logic at play, nothing more.

I genuinely don't know either.

I would say so, to an extent…If you are not coughing as much because you don’t have a symptomatic case, you wouldn’t be as much of a spreader, right?

Halifax2TheMax · September 2021

From the NYT email blast:

Good morning. Immunization mandates aren’t new. One helped win the American Revolution.

The right to health

The United States owes its existence as a nation partly to an immunization mandate.

In 1777, smallpox was a big enough problem for the bedraggled American army that George Washington thought it could jeopardize the Revolution. An outbreak had already led to one American defeat, at the Battle of Quebec. To prevent more, Washington ordered immunizations — done quietly, so the British would not hear how many Americans were sick — for all troops who had not yet had the virus.

It worked. The number of smallpox cases plummeted, and Washington’s army survived a war of attrition against the world’s most powerful country. The immunization mandate, as Ron Chernow wrote in his 2010 Pulitzer Prize-winning biography of Washington, “was as important as any military measure Washington adopted during the war.”

In the decades that followed, immunization treatments became safer (the Revolutionary War method killed 2 percent or 3 percent of recipients), and mandates became more common, in the military and beyond. They also tended to generate hostility from a small minority of Americans.

A Cambridge, Mass., pastor took his opposition to a smallpox vaccine all the way to the Supreme Court in 1905, before losing. Fifty years later, while most Americans were celebrating the start of a mass vaccination campaign against polio, there were still some dissenters. A United Press wire-service article that ran in newspapers across the country on April 13, 1955, reported:

Hundreds of doctors and registered nurses stood ready to begin the stupendous task of inoculating the millions of children throughout the country.

Some hitches developed, however. In Maryland’s Montgomery County, 4,000 parents flatly refused to let their youngsters receive the vaccine. Two counties in Indiana objected that the plan smacked of socialized medicine.

Many vaccinations, few firings

We are now living through this cycle again. The deadline for many workplace mandates arrived this week, often requiring people to have received a Covid-19 vaccine or face being fired. In California, the deadline for health care workers is today.

As was the case with Washington’s army, the mandates are largely succeeding:

• California’s policy has led thousands of previously unvaccinated medical workers to receive shots in recent weeks. At Cedars-Sinai Medical Center in Los Angeles, about 800 additional workers have been vaccinated since the policy was announced last month, bringing the hospital’s vaccination rate to 97 percent, according to my colleague Shawn Hubler.

• When New York State announced a mandate for hospital and nursing-home staff members in August, about 75 percent of them had received a shot. By Monday, the share had risen to 92 percent. The increase amounts to roughly 100,000 newly vaccinated people.

• At Trinity Health, a hospital chain in 22 states, the increase has been similar — to 94 percent from 75 percent, The Times’s Reed Abelson reports. At Genesis HealthCare, which operates long-term-care facilities in 23 states, Covid cases fell by nearly 50 percent after nearly all staff members had finished receiving shots this summer.

Often, the number of people who ultimately refuse the vaccine is smaller than the number who first say they will. Some are persuaded by the information their employer gives them — about the vaccines’ effectiveness and safety, compared with the deadliness of Covid — and others decide they are not really willing to lose their jobs.

A North Carolina hospital system, Novant Health, last week suspended 375 workers, or about 1 percent of its work force, for being unvaccinated. By the end of the week, more than half of them — about 200 — received a shot and were reinstated.

Of course, 175 firings are not nothing. (A Washington Post headline trumpeted the story as “one of the largest-ever mass terminations due to a vaccine mandate.”) United Airlines said this week that it would terminate even more employees — about 600, or less than 1 percent of its U.S. work force.

These firings can create hardship for the workers and short-term disruptions for their employers. But those disruptions tend to be fleeting, because the percentage of workers is tiny. “I’m not seeing any widespread disruptive effect,” Saad Omer of the Yale Institute for Global Health told The Times.

And the benefits — reducing the spread of a deadly virus and lowering the chances it will mutate dangerously in the future — are large

Injury to others

The rationale for workplace mandates revolves around those large benefits: Even in a country that prioritizes individual freedom as much as the U.S. does, citizens do not have the right to harm their colleagues or their colleagues’ families, friends and communities. One person’s right to a healthy life is greater than another person’s right to a specific job.

As Carol Silver-Elliott, the chief executive of Jewish Home Family, a senior-care facility in New Jersey, told ABC News about her company’s mandate, “We felt it was a small price to pay to keep our elders safe, and it is something we feel very, very strongly about.”

After I spent some time reading about the history of vaccine mandates, I was struck by how little the debate has changed over the centuries. In 1905, when the Supreme Court ruled against the Massachusetts pastor who did not want to take a smallpox vaccine, Justice John Marshall Harlan explained that the Constitution did not allow Americans always to behave however they chose. “Real liberty for all could not exist,” Harlan wrote in his majority opinion, if people could act “regardless of the injury that may be done to others.”

(For more on mandates’ history, I recommend a Wall Street Journal essay by David Oshinsky of NYU Langone Health.)

Virus developments:

• AT&T reached a labor agreement to require vaccines for tens of thousands of employees.

• YouTube says it will ban all vaccine misinformation from its platform.

• China is planning a strict bubble around the Winter Olympics in February.

JB16057 · September 2021

Halifax2TheMax said:

From the NYT email blast:

Good morning. Immunization mandates aren’t new. One helped win the American Revolution.

The right to health

The United States owes its existence as a nation partly to an immunization mandate.
In 1777, smallpox was a big enough problem for the bedraggled American army that George Washington thought it could jeopardize the Revolution. An outbreak had already led to one American defeat, at the Battle of Quebec. To prevent more, Washington ordered immunizations — done quietly, so the British would not hear how many Americans were sick — for all troops who had not yet had the virus.

It worked. The number of smallpox cases plummeted, and Washington’s army survived a war of attrition against the world’s most powerful country. The immunization mandate, as Ron Chernow wrote in his 2010 Pulitzer Prize-winning biography of Washington, “was as important as any military measure Washington adopted during the war.”

In the decades that followed, immunization treatments became safer (the Revolutionary War method killed 2 percent or 3 percent of recipients), and mandates became more common, in the military and beyond. They also tended to generate hostility from a small minority of Americans.

A Cambridge, Mass., pastor took his opposition to a smallpox vaccine all the way to the Supreme Court in 1905, before losing. Fifty years later, while most Americans were celebrating the start of a mass vaccination campaign against polio, there were still some dissenters. A United Press wire-service article that ran in newspapers across the country on April 13, 1955, reported:
Hundreds of doctors and registered nurses stood ready to begin the stupendous task of inoculating the millions of children throughout the country.
Some hitches developed, however. In Maryland’s Montgomery County, 4,000 parents flatly refused to let their youngsters receive the vaccine. Two counties in Indiana objected that the plan smacked of socialized medicine.

Many vaccinations, few firings
We are now living through this cycle again. The deadline for many workplace mandates arrived this week, often requiring people to have received a Covid-19 vaccine or face being fired. In California, the deadline for health care workers is today.

As was the case with Washington’s army, the mandates are largely succeeding:
• California’s policy has led thousands of previously unvaccinated medical workers to receive shots in recent weeks. At Cedars-Sinai Medical Center in Los Angeles, about 800 additional workers have been vaccinated since the policy was announced last month, bringing the hospital’s vaccination rate to 97 percent, according to my colleague Shawn Hubler.

• When New York State announced a mandate for hospital and nursing-home staff members in August, about 75 percent of them had received a shot. By Monday, the share had risen to 92 percent. The increase amounts to roughly 100,000 newly vaccinated people.
• At Trinity Health, a hospital chain in 22 states, the increase has been similar — to 94 percent from 75 percent, The Times’s Reed Abelson reports. At Genesis HealthCare, which operates long-term-care facilities in 23 states, Covid cases fell by nearly 50 percent after nearly all staff members had finished receiving shots this summer.
Often, the number of people who ultimately refuse the vaccine is smaller than the number who first say they will. Some are persuaded by the information their employer gives them — about the vaccines’ effectiveness and safety, compared with the deadliness of Covid — and others decide they are not really willing to lose their jobs.

A North Carolina hospital system, Novant Health, last week suspended 375 workers, or about 1 percent of its work force, for being unvaccinated. By the end of the week, more than half of them — about 200 — received a shot and were reinstated.
Of course, 175 firings are not nothing. (A Washington Post headline trumpeted the story as “one of the largest-ever mass terminations due to a vaccine mandate.”) United Airlines said this week that it would terminate even more employees — about 600, or less than 1 percent of its U.S. work force.

These firings can create hardship for the workers and short-term disruptions for their employers. But those disruptions tend to be fleeting, because the percentage of workers is tiny. “I’m not seeing any widespread disruptive effect,” Saad Omer of the Yale Institute for Global Health told The Times.

And the benefits — reducing the spread of a deadly virus and lowering the chances it will mutate dangerously in the future — are large

Injury to others

The rationale for workplace mandates revolves around those large benefits: Even in a country that prioritizes individual freedom as much as the U.S. does, citizens do not have the right to harm their colleagues or their colleagues’ families, friends and communities. One person’s right to a healthy life is greater than another person’s right to a specific job.
As Carol Silver-Elliott, the chief executive of Jewish Home Family, a senior-care facility in New Jersey, told ABC News about her company’s mandate, “We felt it was a small price to pay to keep our elders safe, and it is something we feel very, very strongly about.”

After I spent some time reading about the history of vaccine mandates, I was struck by how little the debate has changed over the centuries. In 1905, when the Supreme Court ruled against the Massachusetts pastor who did not want to take a smallpox vaccine, Justice John Marshall Harlan explained that the Constitution did not allow Americans always to behave however they chose. “Real liberty for all could not exist,” Harlan wrote in his majority opinion, if people could act “regardless of the injury that may be done to others.”

(For more on mandates’ history, I recommend a Wall Street Journal essay by David Oshinsky of NYU Langone Health.)

Virus developments:
• AT&T reached a labor agreement to require vaccines for tens of thousands of employees.
• YouTube says it will ban all vaccine misinformation from its platform.
• China is planning a strict bubble around the Winter Olympics in February.

Something that this article doesn't mention is that small pox has a case fatality rate of 30%. Covid-19 is more around the 2-3% range.

I've spoke with multiple people that are refusing to get the vaccine and I've heard more than once that if the case fatality rate was higher, they would get the vaccine. We didn't get into what that number would have to be and who knows, maybe they are full of shit but there is a big difference between smallpox and Covid-19.

The next month is going to be interesting with these vaccine mandates coming down. The vaccine mandates are going to put a huge stress on many industries. My local hospital has a 55% vaccinated rate among the employees. They are already struggling with serving the needs of the public(only 9 hospitalized COVID cases). The walk-in clinic fills up in the morning and you have to wait all day to get help. I'm pretty sure both my local power companies are the same way. As someone who is vaccinated, what am I supposed to do when my local power company has issues keeping our power on because they just fired half their employees? It isn't my fault and I do tell the unvaccinated that I wish they would take it but that's all I can do.

Merkin Baller · September 2021

HughFreakingDillon said:

Merkin Baller said:

nicknyr15 said:

Merkin Baller said:

nicknyr15 said:

https://youtu.be/gteFcUlxjyY

Shut up and dribble

*** unfortunately I feel the need to come back and say I’m fully vaccinated. Instead of only focusing on lunatics who have insane conspiracy theories about the vaccination, there’s also plenty of people who sound like this guy that get brushed to the side.

I won't brush it aside, but with that being said, is there anything more to his logic than "I don't want to and you can't make me"?

I can sympathize with the hesitancy, I also had doubts at first, but in the very least, his position is ignorant to the burden the unvaccinated are putting on health care workers.

There was a lot more. Guessed you missed it.

I'm under the impression being vaccinated cuts down on rate of transmission, does having covid antibodies also cut down on rate of transmission? I genuinely don't know. He thinks he's all set having already had covid, good for him. What about the people around him?

& am I wrong in saying he's ignorant of the burden the unvaccinated are putting on the healthcare system? That in and of itself is a pretty important reason to get vaccinated if you can, no?

I don't know, but i'd imagine that natural immunity mimics vaccinated immunity, so you'd be less likely to transmit if you had natural the same as vaccinated. but again, that's just my non-medical logic at play, nothing more.

I saw this posted this morning in response to Rand Paul's suggestion that natural immunity is equal to or better than getting vaccinated - it seemed relevant in regards to yesterday's exchange:

https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0806-vaccination-protection.html

“In today’s MMWR, a study of COVID-19 infections in Kentucky among people who were previously infected with SAR-CoV-2 shows that unvaccinated individuals are more than twice as likely to be reinfected with COVID-19 than those who were fully vaccinated after initially contracting the virus.

The study of hundreds of Kentucky residents with previous infections through June 2021 found that those who were unvaccinated had 2.34 times the odds of reinfection compared with those who were fully vaccinated. The findings suggest that among people who have had COVID-19 previously, getting fully vaccinated provides additional protection against reinfection.”

EDIT: aaaannnnnddd I just read another study from a different source suggesting the exact opposite, at least w/ the Delta variant.

Disregard.

RunIntoTheRain · September 2021

There are quite a few employees where I work who said they will only get the vaccine if Costco requires it.

The mandates give ppl an out; it forces them. They can say to themselves “well I had to get it.”

I just don’t think very many ppl are going to actually quit.

gimmesometruth27 · September 2021

i am getting the pfizer booster this evening. i have some trips coming up and want to make sure i am protected. also due to the fact that there are so many unvaccinated inpatients with covid at the hospitals i call on. i am not taking any chances.

cblock4life · September 2021

Halifax2TheMax said:

From the NYT email blast:

Good morning. Immunization mandates aren’t new. One helped win the American Revolution.

The right to health

The United States owes its existence as a nation partly to an immunization mandate.
In 1777, smallpox was a big enough problem for the bedraggled American army that George Washington thought it could jeopardize the Revolution. An outbreak had already led to one American defeat, at the Battle of Quebec. To prevent more, Washington ordered immunizations — done quietly, so the British would not hear how many Americans were sick — for all troops who had not yet had the virus.

It worked. The number of smallpox cases plummeted, and Washington’s army survived a war of attrition against the world’s most powerful country. The immunization mandate, as Ron Chernow wrote in his 2010 Pulitzer Prize-winning biography of Washington, “was as important as any military measure Washington adopted during the war.”

In the decades that followed, immunization treatments became safer (the Revolutionary War method killed 2 percent or 3 percent of recipients), and mandates became more common, in the military and beyond. They also tended to generate hostility from a small minority of Americans.

A Cambridge, Mass., pastor took his opposition to a smallpox vaccine all the way to the Supreme Court in 1905, before losing. Fifty years later, while most Americans were celebrating the start of a mass vaccination campaign against polio, there were still some dissenters. A United Press wire-service article that ran in newspapers across the country on April 13, 1955, reported:
Hundreds of doctors and registered nurses stood ready to begin the stupendous task of inoculating the millions of children throughout the country.
Some hitches developed, however. In Maryland’s Montgomery County, 4,000 parents flatly refused to let their youngsters receive the vaccine. Two counties in Indiana objected that the plan smacked of socialized medicine.

Many vaccinations, few firings
We are now living through this cycle again. The deadline for many workplace mandates arrived this week, often requiring people to have received a Covid-19 vaccine or face being fired. In California, the deadline for health care workers is today.

As was the case with Washington’s army, the mandates are largely succeeding:
• California’s policy has led thousands of previously unvaccinated medical workers to receive shots in recent weeks. At Cedars-Sinai Medical Center in Los Angeles, about 800 additional workers have been vaccinated since the policy was announced last month, bringing the hospital’s vaccination rate to 97 percent, according to my colleague Shawn Hubler.

• When New York State announced a mandate for hospital and nursing-home staff members in August, about 75 percent of them had received a shot. By Monday, the share had risen to 92 percent. The increase amounts to roughly 100,000 newly vaccinated people.
• At Trinity Health, a hospital chain in 22 states, the increase has been similar — to 94 percent from 75 percent, The Times’s Reed Abelson reports. At Genesis HealthCare, which operates long-term-care facilities in 23 states, Covid cases fell by nearly 50 percent after nearly all staff members had finished receiving shots this summer.
Often, the number of people who ultimately refuse the vaccine is smaller than the number who first say they will. Some are persuaded by the information their employer gives them — about the vaccines’ effectiveness and safety, compared with the deadliness of Covid — and others decide they are not really willing to lose their jobs.

A North Carolina hospital system, Novant Health, last week suspended 375 workers, or about 1 percent of its work force, for being unvaccinated. By the end of the week, more than half of them — about 200 — received a shot and were reinstated.
Of course, 175 firings are not nothing. (A Washington Post headline trumpeted the story as “one of the largest-ever mass terminations due to a vaccine mandate.”) United Airlines said this week that it would terminate even more employees — about 600, or less than 1 percent of its U.S. work force.

These firings can create hardship for the workers and short-term disruptions for their employers. But those disruptions tend to be fleeting, because the percentage of workers is tiny. “I’m not seeing any widespread disruptive effect,” Saad Omer of the Yale Institute for Global Health told The Times.

And the benefits — reducing the spread of a deadly virus and lowering the chances it will mutate dangerously in the future — are large

Injury to others

The rationale for workplace mandates revolves around those large benefits: Even in a country that prioritizes individual freedom as much as the U.S. does, citizens do not have the right to harm their colleagues or their colleagues’ families, friends and communities. One person’s right to a healthy life is greater than another person’s right to a specific job.
As Carol Silver-Elliott, the chief executive of Jewish Home Family, a senior-care facility in New Jersey, told ABC News about her company’s mandate, “We felt it was a small price to pay to keep our elders safe, and it is something we feel very, very strongly about.”

After I spent some time reading about the history of vaccine mandates, I was struck by how little the debate has changed over the centuries. In 1905, when the Supreme Court ruled against the Massachusetts pastor who did not want to take a smallpox vaccine, Justice John Marshall Harlan explained that the Constitution did not allow Americans always to behave however they chose. “Real liberty for all could not exist,” Harlan wrote in his majority opinion, if people could act “regardless of the injury that may be done to others.”

(For more on mandates’ history, I recommend a Wall Street Journal essay by David Oshinsky of NYU Langone Health.)

Virus developments:
• AT&T reached a labor agreement to require vaccines for tens of thousands of employees.
• YouTube says it will ban all vaccine misinformation from its platform.
• China is planning a strict bubble around the Winter Olympics in February.

Months ago on a different forum I used the bolded Supreme Court ruling of 1905 as an example (to a group of non vaccinated individuals) of what the government really can mandate and still was not believed. This is why it’s so frustrating, they deny everything that falls in favor of being vaccinated even if we have proof from decades and decades ago that the government can mandate vaccines. They went so far as to say the SC has no authority over laws. Now I know it’s not everyone who is anti vaccine acts like that but the truth is the majority do and it’s extremely frustrating. They want us to just erase history because FF told them to.

FiveBelow · September 2021

gimmesometruth27 said:

i am getting the pfizer booster this evening. i have some trips coming up and want to make sure i am protected. also due to the fact that there are so many unvaccinated inpatients with covid at the hospitals i call on. i am not taking any chances.

Is it the job that gives you eligibility at this point? I too am all whacked-out on pfizer but have not paid much attention to the booster talk.

gimmesometruth27 · September 2021

FiveBelow said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

i am getting the pfizer booster this evening. i have some trips coming up and want to make sure i am protected. also due to the fact that there are so many unvaccinated inpatients with covid at the hospitals i call on. i am not taking any chances.

Is it the job that gives you eligibility at this point? I too am all whacked-out on pfizer but have not paid much attention to the booster talk.

yes. i am in surgery centers and hospitals every day and the degree of covid screening varies widely at each. i am considered front line since i am in surgery several days per week.

as of now the booster is recommended for those over 65, those that are immunocompromised, and those that work a job with a higher than normal exposure risk. the requirement is it has to be 6 months or more since the second dose. i will be 7 months next week do my doctor said to go ahead and get it now if i can.

FiveBelow · September 2021

gimmesometruth27 said:

FiveBelow said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

i am getting the pfizer booster this evening. i have some trips coming up and want to make sure i am protected. also due to the fact that there are so many unvaccinated inpatients with covid at the hospitals i call on. i am not taking any chances.

Is it the job that gives you eligibility at this point? I too am all whacked-out on pfizer but have not paid much attention to the booster talk.

yes. i am in surgery centers and hospitals every day and the degree of covid screening varies widely at each. i am considered front line since i am in surgery several days per week.

as of now the booster is recommended for those over 65, those that are immunocompromised, and those that work a job with a higher than normal exposure risk. the requirement is it has to be 6 months or more since the second dose. i will be 7 months next week do my doctor said to go ahead and get it now if i can.

I'm nearing the 6 month mark but it looks like I wouldn't be eligible anyway. You may be the forums first booster recipient, good luck!

RunIntoTheRain · September 2021

FiveBelow said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

FiveBelow said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

i am getting the pfizer booster this evening. i have some trips coming up and want to make sure i am protected. also due to the fact that there are so many unvaccinated inpatients with covid at the hospitals i call on. i am not taking any chances.

Is it the job that gives you eligibility at this point? I too am all whacked-out on pfizer but have not paid much attention to the booster talk.

yes. i am in surgery centers and hospitals every day and the degree of covid screening varies widely at each. i am considered front line since i am in surgery several days per week.

as of now the booster is recommended for those over 65, those that are immunocompromised, and those that work a job with a higher than normal exposure risk. the requirement is it has to be 6 months or more since the second dose. i will be 7 months next week do my doctor said to go ahead and get it now if i can.

I'm nearing the 6 month mark but it looks like I wouldn't be eligible anyway. You may be the forums first booster recipient, good luck!

I got my booster on the 12th. Piece of cake.

Halifax2TheMax · September 2021

JB16057 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

From the NYT email blast:

Good morning. Immunization mandates aren’t new. One helped win the American Revolution.

The right to health

The United States owes its existence as a nation partly to an immunization mandate.
In 1777, smallpox was a big enough problem for the bedraggled American army that George Washington thought it could jeopardize the Revolution. An outbreak had already led to one American defeat, at the Battle of Quebec. To prevent more, Washington ordered immunizations — done quietly, so the British would not hear how many Americans were sick — for all troops who had not yet had the virus.

It worked. The number of smallpox cases plummeted, and Washington’s army survived a war of attrition against the world’s most powerful country. The immunization mandate, as Ron Chernow wrote in his 2010 Pulitzer Prize-winning biography of Washington, “was as important as any military measure Washington adopted during the war.”

In the decades that followed, immunization treatments became safer (the Revolutionary War method killed 2 percent or 3 percent of recipients), and mandates became more common, in the military and beyond. They also tended to generate hostility from a small minority of Americans.

A Cambridge, Mass., pastor took his opposition to a smallpox vaccine all the way to the Supreme Court in 1905, before losing. Fifty years later, while most Americans were celebrating the start of a mass vaccination campaign against polio, there were still some dissenters. A United Press wire-service article that ran in newspapers across the country on April 13, 1955, reported:
Hundreds of doctors and registered nurses stood ready to begin the stupendous task of inoculating the millions of children throughout the country.
Some hitches developed, however. In Maryland’s Montgomery County, 4,000 parents flatly refused to let their youngsters receive the vaccine. Two counties in Indiana objected that the plan smacked of socialized medicine.

Many vaccinations, few firings
We are now living through this cycle again. The deadline for many workplace mandates arrived this week, often requiring people to have received a Covid-19 vaccine or face being fired. In California, the deadline for health care workers is today.

As was the case with Washington’s army, the mandates are largely succeeding:
• California’s policy has led thousands of previously unvaccinated medical workers to receive shots in recent weeks. At Cedars-Sinai Medical Center in Los Angeles, about 800 additional workers have been vaccinated since the policy was announced last month, bringing the hospital’s vaccination rate to 97 percent, according to my colleague Shawn Hubler.

• When New York State announced a mandate for hospital and nursing-home staff members in August, about 75 percent of them had received a shot. By Monday, the share had risen to 92 percent. The increase amounts to roughly 100,000 newly vaccinated people.
• At Trinity Health, a hospital chain in 22 states, the increase has been similar — to 94 percent from 75 percent, The Times’s Reed Abelson reports. At Genesis HealthCare, which operates long-term-care facilities in 23 states, Covid cases fell by nearly 50 percent after nearly all staff members had finished receiving shots this summer.
Often, the number of people who ultimately refuse the vaccine is smaller than the number who first say they will. Some are persuaded by the information their employer gives them — about the vaccines’ effectiveness and safety, compared with the deadliness of Covid — and others decide they are not really willing to lose their jobs.

A North Carolina hospital system, Novant Health, last week suspended 375 workers, or about 1 percent of its work force, for being unvaccinated. By the end of the week, more than half of them — about 200 — received a shot and were reinstated.
Of course, 175 firings are not nothing. (A Washington Post headline trumpeted the story as “one of the largest-ever mass terminations due to a vaccine mandate.”) United Airlines said this week that it would terminate even more employees — about 600, or less than 1 percent of its U.S. work force.

These firings can create hardship for the workers and short-term disruptions for their employers. But those disruptions tend to be fleeting, because the percentage of workers is tiny. “I’m not seeing any widespread disruptive effect,” Saad Omer of the Yale Institute for Global Health told The Times.

And the benefits — reducing the spread of a deadly virus and lowering the chances it will mutate dangerously in the future — are large

Injury to others

The rationale for workplace mandates revolves around those large benefits: Even in a country that prioritizes individual freedom as much as the U.S. does, citizens do not have the right to harm their colleagues or their colleagues’ families, friends and communities. One person’s right to a healthy life is greater than another person’s right to a specific job.
As Carol Silver-Elliott, the chief executive of Jewish Home Family, a senior-care facility in New Jersey, told ABC News about her company’s mandate, “We felt it was a small price to pay to keep our elders safe, and it is something we feel very, very strongly about.”

After I spent some time reading about the history of vaccine mandates, I was struck by how little the debate has changed over the centuries. In 1905, when the Supreme Court ruled against the Massachusetts pastor who did not want to take a smallpox vaccine, Justice John Marshall Harlan explained that the Constitution did not allow Americans always to behave however they chose. “Real liberty for all could not exist,” Harlan wrote in his majority opinion, if people could act “regardless of the injury that may be done to others.”

(For more on mandates’ history, I recommend a Wall Street Journal essay by David Oshinsky of NYU Langone Health.)

Virus developments:
• AT&T reached a labor agreement to require vaccines for tens of thousands of employees.
• YouTube says it will ban all vaccine misinformation from its platform.
• China is planning a strict bubble around the Winter Olympics in February.

Something that this article doesn't mention is that small pox has a case fatality rate of 30%. Covid-19 is more around the 2-3% range.

I've spoke with multiple people that are refusing to get the vaccine and I've heard more than once that if the case fatality rate was higher, they would get the vaccine. We didn't get into what that number would have to be and who knows, maybe they are full of shit but there is a big difference between smallpox and Covid-19.

The next month is going to be interesting with these vaccine mandates coming down. The vaccine mandates are going to put a huge stress on many industries. My local hospital has a 55% vaccinated rate among the employees. They are already struggling with serving the needs of the public(only 9 hospitalized COVID cases). The walk-in clinic fills up in the morning and you have to wait all day to get help. I'm pretty sure both my local power companies are the same way. As someone who is vaccinated, what am I supposed to do when my local power company has issues keeping our power on because they just fired half their employees? It isn't my fault and I do tell the unvaccinated that I wish they would take it but that's all I can do.

Are you suggesting the low overall percentage rate of death relative to small pox is acceptable? 2-3% of 320 million is 6,400,000 to 9,600,000. The price to pay so unvaxxed can be selfish pricks?

Buy a generator and have it hard wired into your electrical box (I'm not saying that to be a dick because after a huge ice storm in the northeast a few years ago, there was a huge run on generators and most everyone that I know who lost power, now has one)? Life will go on, except for the 700,000 already dead 'Muricans and the anticipated 1,500 per day between now and the end of October, 46,500 more. What would or will you do if half the power plant staff dies from Covid? Expectations are that there will be another spike come November, December and January, another 91,000 dead at an average of 1,000/day.

Within the country, vaccination rates still vary widely. In some states, nearly 70 percent of people are fully vaccinated. In others, less than half have received even one dose. The gap in vaccination between Democratic and Republican voters continues to widen.

Since Dec. 14, more than 391,992,000 doses of a coronavirus vaccine have been administered in the U.S.

More than 184,335,000 people have completed vaccination, or about 55.52% of the population. Read more in our vaccination tracker.

gimmesometruth27 · September 2021

RunIntoTheRain said:

FiveBelow said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

FiveBelow said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

i am getting the pfizer booster this evening. i have some trips coming up and want to make sure i am protected. also due to the fact that there are so many unvaccinated inpatients with covid at the hospitals i call on. i am not taking any chances.

Is it the job that gives you eligibility at this point? I too am all whacked-out on pfizer but have not paid much attention to the booster talk.

yes. i am in surgery centers and hospitals every day and the degree of covid screening varies widely at each. i am considered front line since i am in surgery several days per week.

as of now the booster is recommended for those over 65, those that are immunocompromised, and those that work a job with a higher than normal exposure risk. the requirement is it has to be 6 months or more since the second dose. i will be 7 months next week do my doctor said to go ahead and get it now if i can.

I'm nearing the 6 month mark but it looks like I wouldn't be eligible anyway. You may be the forums first booster recipient, good luck!

I got my booster on the 12th. Piece of cake.

that's want we want to hear!!

Unvaccinated?

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