Good morning. Immunization mandates aren’t new. One helped win the American Revolution.
The right to health
The United States owes its existence as a nation partly to an immunization mandate.
In 1777, smallpox was a big enough problem for the bedraggled American army that George Washington thought it could jeopardize the Revolution. An outbreak had already led to one American defeat, at the Battle of Quebec. To prevent more, Washington ordered immunizations — done quietly, so the British would not hear how many Americans were sick — for all troops who had not yet had the virus.
It worked. The number of smallpox cases plummeted, and Washington’s army survived a war of attrition against the world’s most powerful country. The immunization mandate, as Ron Chernow wrote in his 2010 Pulitzer Prize-winning biography of Washington, “was as important as any military measure Washington adopted during the war.”
In the decades that followed, immunization treatments became safer (the Revolutionary War method killed 2 percent or 3 percent of recipients), and mandates became more common, in the military and beyond. They also tended to generate hostility from a small minority of Americans.
A Cambridge, Mass., pastor took his opposition to a smallpox vaccine all the way to the Supreme Court in 1905, before losing. Fifty years later, while most Americans were celebrating the start of a mass vaccination campaign against polio, there were still some dissenters. A United Press wire-service article that ran in newspapers across the country on April 13, 1955, reported:
Hundreds of doctors and registered nurses stood ready to begin the stupendous task of inoculating the millions of children throughout the country.
Some hitches developed, however. In Maryland’s Montgomery County, 4,000 parents flatly refused to let their youngsters receive the vaccine. Two counties in Indiana objected that the plan smacked of socialized medicine.
Many vaccinations, few firings
We are now living through this cycle again. The deadline for many workplace mandates arrived this week, often requiring people to have received a Covid-19 vaccine or face being fired. In California, the deadline for health care workers is today.
As was the case with Washington’s army, the mandates are largely succeeding:
• California’s policy has led thousands of previously unvaccinated medical workers to receive shots in recent weeks. At Cedars-Sinai Medical Center in Los Angeles, about 800 additional workers have been vaccinated since the policy was announced last month, bringing the hospital’s vaccination rate to 97 percent, according to my colleague Shawn Hubler.
• When New York State announced a mandate for hospital and nursing-home staff members in August, about 75 percent of them had received a shot. By Monday, the share had risen to 92 percent. The increase amounts to roughly 100,000 newly vaccinated people.
• At Trinity Health, a hospital chain in 22 states, the increase has been similar — to 94 percent from 75 percent, The Times’s Reed Abelson reports. At Genesis HealthCare, which operates long-term-care facilities in 23 states, Covid cases fell by nearly 50 percent after nearly all staff members had finished receiving shots this summer.
Often, the number of people who ultimately refuse the vaccine is smaller than the number who first say they will. Some are persuaded by the information their employer gives them — about the vaccines’ effectiveness and safety, compared with the deadliness of Covid — and others decide they are not really willing to lose their jobs.
A North Carolina hospital system, Novant Health, last week suspended 375 workers, or about 1 percent of its work force, for being unvaccinated. By the end of the week, more than half of them — about 200 — received a shot and were reinstated.
Of course, 175 firings are not nothing. (A Washington Post headline trumpeted the story as “one of the largest-ever mass terminations due to a vaccine mandate.”) United Airlines said this week that it would terminate even more employees — about 600, or less than 1 percent of its U.S. work force.
These firings can create hardship for the workers and short-term disruptions for their employers. But those disruptions tend to be fleeting, because the percentage of workers is tiny. “I’m not seeing any widespread disruptive effect,” Saad Omer of the Yale Institute for Global Health told The Times.
And the benefits — reducing the spread of a deadly virus and lowering the chances it will mutate dangerously in the future — are large
Injury to others
The rationale for workplace mandates revolves around those large benefits: Even in a country that prioritizes individual freedom as much as the U.S. does, citizens do not have the right to harm their colleagues or their colleagues’ families, friends and communities. One person’s right to a healthy life is greater than another person’s right to a specific job.
As Carol Silver-Elliott, the chief executive of Jewish Home Family, a senior-care facility in New Jersey, told ABC News about her company’s mandate, “We felt it was a small price to pay to keep our elders safe, and it is something we feel very, very strongly about.”
After I spent some time reading about the history of vaccine mandates, I was struck by how little the debate has changed over the centuries. In 1905, when the Supreme Court ruled against the Massachusetts pastor who did not want to take a smallpox vaccine, Justice John Marshall Harlan explained that the Constitution did not allow Americans always to behave however they chose. “Real liberty for all could not exist,” Harlan wrote in his majority opinion, if people could act “regardless of the injury that may be done to others.”
(For more on mandates’ history, I recommend a Wall Street Journal essay by David Oshinsky of NYU Langone Health.)
Virus developments:
• AT&T reached a labor agreement to require vaccines for tens of thousands of employees.
• YouTube says it will ban all vaccine misinformation from its platform.
• China is planning a strict bubble around the Winter Olympics in February.
Something that this article doesn't mention is that small pox has a case fatality rate of 30%. Covid-19 is more around the 2-3% range.
I've spoke with multiple people that are refusing to get the vaccine and I've heard more than once that if the case fatality rate was higher, they would get the vaccine. We didn't get into what that number would have to be and who knows, maybe they are full of shit but there is a big difference between smallpox and Covid-19.
The next month is going to be interesting with these vaccine mandates coming down. The vaccine mandates are going to put a huge stress on many industries. My local hospital has a 55% vaccinated rate among the employees. They are already struggling with serving the needs of the public(only 9 hospitalized COVID cases). The walk-in clinic fills up in the morning and you have to wait all day to get help. I'm pretty sure both my local power companies are the same way. As someone who is vaccinated, what am I supposed to do when my local power company has issues keeping our power on because they just fired half their employees? It isn't my fault and I do tell the unvaccinated that I wish they would take it but that's all I can do.
Are you suggesting the low overall percentage rate of death relative to small pox is acceptable? 2-3% of 320 million is 6,400,000 to 9,600,000. The price to pay so unvaxxed can be selfish pricks?
Buy a generator and have it hard wired into your electrical box (I'm not saying that to be a dick because after a huge ice storm in the northeast a few years ago, there was a huge run on generators and most everyone that I know who lost power, now has one)? Life will go on, except for the 700,000 already dead 'Muricans and the anticipated 1,500 per day between now and the end of October, 46,500 more. What would or will you do if half the power plant staff dies from Covid? Expectations are that there will be another spike come November, December and January, another 91,000 dead at an average of 1,000/day.
Within the country, vaccination rates still vary widely. In some states, nearly 70 percent of people are fully vaccinated. In others, less than half have received even one dose. The gap in vaccination between Democratic and Republican voters continues to widen.
Since Dec. 14, more than 391,992,000 doses of a coronavirus vaccine have been administered in the U.S.
More than 184,335,000 people have completed vaccination, or about 55.52% of the population. Read more in our vaccination tracker.
I am vaccinated and I'm not trying to justify anyone dying. The fact of the matter is that half of the power plant won't die if they aren't vaccinated because COVID doesn't kill 50% like you are questioning.
My point is that I am vaccinated but I can't poke someone with a needle to make them vaccinated. It isn't my fault if the power company can't keep the lights on because they fired half their employees. The power companies have a responsibility to keep my power on. If they make the choice to fire half the employees and then fulfill their responsibility, it will hurt both the vaccinated and unvaccinated.
The argument can be made both ways. The difference is that if the power company can't keep the lights on, their will be lawsuits against them. I didn't tell them to fire half their employees, they made that choice. Winter is coming and I can imagine that this will be an issue for plenty of power companies. It's not only power companies but all businesses and entities.
It's a lose lose situation for everyone involved. We are constantly hearing about how doctors and nurses are burnt out and they are quitting by the day. Our health officials say we are in the middle of a pandemic but they are willing to fire all the unvaccinated people. That isn't my fault! Once again, they have a responsibility that they won't be able to fulfill because they made the choice to fire so many people.
I don't have a good solution. Maybe keep the vaccinated segregated from the unvaccinated? Take the power companies for example. There are vaccinated crews and unvaccinated crews. I don't know. All I do know is that I chose to get vaccinated and these vaccine mandates could easily hurt me and my family which is not fair.
Good morning. Immunization mandates aren’t new. One helped win the American Revolution.
The right to health
The United States owes its existence as a nation partly to an immunization mandate.
In 1777, smallpox was a big enough problem for the bedraggled American army that George Washington thought it could jeopardize the Revolution. An outbreak had already led to one American defeat, at the Battle of Quebec. To prevent more, Washington ordered immunizations — done quietly, so the British would not hear how many Americans were sick — for all troops who had not yet had the virus.
It worked. The number of smallpox cases plummeted, and Washington’s army survived a war of attrition against the world’s most powerful country. The immunization mandate, as Ron Chernow wrote in his 2010 Pulitzer Prize-winning biography of Washington, “was as important as any military measure Washington adopted during the war.”
In the decades that followed, immunization treatments became safer (the Revolutionary War method killed 2 percent or 3 percent of recipients), and mandates became more common, in the military and beyond. They also tended to generate hostility from a small minority of Americans.
A Cambridge, Mass., pastor took his opposition to a smallpox vaccine all the way to the Supreme Court in 1905, before losing. Fifty years later, while most Americans were celebrating the start of a mass vaccination campaign against polio, there were still some dissenters. A United Press wire-service article that ran in newspapers across the country on April 13, 1955, reported:
Hundreds of doctors and registered nurses stood ready to begin the stupendous task of inoculating the millions of children throughout the country.
Some hitches developed, however. In Maryland’s Montgomery County, 4,000 parents flatly refused to let their youngsters receive the vaccine. Two counties in Indiana objected that the plan smacked of socialized medicine.
Many vaccinations, few firings
We are now living through this cycle again. The deadline for many workplace mandates arrived this week, often requiring people to have received a Covid-19 vaccine or face being fired. In California, the deadline for health care workers is today.
As was the case with Washington’s army, the mandates are largely succeeding:
• California’s policy has led thousands of previously unvaccinated medical workers to receive shots in recent weeks. At Cedars-Sinai Medical Center in Los Angeles, about 800 additional workers have been vaccinated since the policy was announced last month, bringing the hospital’s vaccination rate to 97 percent, according to my colleague Shawn Hubler.
• When New York State announced a mandate for hospital and nursing-home staff members in August, about 75 percent of them had received a shot. By Monday, the share had risen to 92 percent. The increase amounts to roughly 100,000 newly vaccinated people.
• At Trinity Health, a hospital chain in 22 states, the increase has been similar — to 94 percent from 75 percent, The Times’s Reed Abelson reports. At Genesis HealthCare, which operates long-term-care facilities in 23 states, Covid cases fell by nearly 50 percent after nearly all staff members had finished receiving shots this summer.
Often, the number of people who ultimately refuse the vaccine is smaller than the number who first say they will. Some are persuaded by the information their employer gives them — about the vaccines’ effectiveness and safety, compared with the deadliness of Covid — and others decide they are not really willing to lose their jobs.
A North Carolina hospital system, Novant Health, last week suspended 375 workers, or about 1 percent of its work force, for being unvaccinated. By the end of the week, more than half of them — about 200 — received a shot and were reinstated.
Of course, 175 firings are not nothing. (A Washington Post headline trumpeted the story as “one of the largest-ever mass terminations due to a vaccine mandate.”) United Airlines said this week that it would terminate even more employees — about 600, or less than 1 percent of its U.S. work force.
These firings can create hardship for the workers and short-term disruptions for their employers. But those disruptions tend to be fleeting, because the percentage of workers is tiny. “I’m not seeing any widespread disruptive effect,” Saad Omer of the Yale Institute for Global Health told The Times.
And the benefits — reducing the spread of a deadly virus and lowering the chances it will mutate dangerously in the future — are large
Injury to others
The rationale for workplace mandates revolves around those large benefits: Even in a country that prioritizes individual freedom as much as the U.S. does, citizens do not have the right to harm their colleagues or their colleagues’ families, friends and communities. One person’s right to a healthy life is greater than another person’s right to a specific job.
As Carol Silver-Elliott, the chief executive of Jewish Home Family, a senior-care facility in New Jersey, told ABC News about her company’s mandate, “We felt it was a small price to pay to keep our elders safe, and it is something we feel very, very strongly about.”
After I spent some time reading about the history of vaccine mandates, I was struck by how little the debate has changed over the centuries. In 1905, when the Supreme Court ruled against the Massachusetts pastor who did not want to take a smallpox vaccine, Justice John Marshall Harlan explained that the Constitution did not allow Americans always to behave however they chose. “Real liberty for all could not exist,” Harlan wrote in his majority opinion, if people could act “regardless of the injury that may be done to others.”
(For more on mandates’ history, I recommend a Wall Street Journal essay by David Oshinsky of NYU Langone Health.)
Virus developments:
• AT&T reached a labor agreement to require vaccines for tens of thousands of employees.
• YouTube says it will ban all vaccine misinformation from its platform.
• China is planning a strict bubble around the Winter Olympics in February.
Something that this article doesn't mention is that small pox has a case fatality rate of 30%. Covid-19 is more around the 2-3% range.
I've spoke with multiple people that are refusing to get the vaccine and I've heard more than once that if the case fatality rate was higher, they would get the vaccine. We didn't get into what that number would have to be and who knows, maybe they are full of shit but there is a big difference between smallpox and Covid-19.
The next month is going to be interesting with these vaccine mandates coming down. The vaccine mandates are going to put a huge stress on many industries. My local hospital has a 55% vaccinated rate among the employees. They are already struggling with serving the needs of the public(only 9 hospitalized COVID cases). The walk-in clinic fills up in the morning and you have to wait all day to get help. I'm pretty sure both my local power companies are the same way. As someone who is vaccinated, what am I supposed to do when my local power company has issues keeping our power on because they just fired half their employees? It isn't my fault and I do tell the unvaccinated that I wish they would take it but that's all I can do.
Are you suggesting the low overall percentage rate of death relative to small pox is acceptable? 2-3% of 320 million is 6,400,000 to 9,600,000. The price to pay so unvaxxed can be selfish pricks?
Buy a generator and have it hard wired into your electrical box (I'm not saying that to be a dick because after a huge ice storm in the northeast a few years ago, there was a huge run on generators and most everyone that I know who lost power, now has one)? Life will go on, except for the 700,000 already dead 'Muricans and the anticipated 1,500 per day between now and the end of October, 46,500 more. What would or will you do if half the power plant staff dies from Covid? Expectations are that there will be another spike come November, December and January, another 91,000 dead at an average of 1,000/day.
Within the country, vaccination rates still vary widely. In some states, nearly 70 percent of people are fully vaccinated. In others, less than half have received even one dose. The gap in vaccination between Democratic and Republican voters continues to widen.
Since Dec. 14, more than 391,992,000 doses of a coronavirus vaccine have been administered in the U.S.
More than 184,335,000 people have completed vaccination, or about 55.52% of the population. Read more in our vaccination tracker.
I am vaccinated and I'm not trying to justify anyone dying. The fact of the matter is that half of the power plant won't die if they aren't vaccinated because COVID doesn't kill 50% like you are questioning.
My point is that I am vaccinated but I can't poke someone with a needle to make them vaccinated. It isn't my fault if the power company can't keep the lights on because they fired half their employees. The power companies have a responsibility to keep my power on. If they make the choice to fire half the employees and then fulfill their responsibility, it will hurt both the vaccinated and unvaccinated.
The argument can be made both ways. The difference is that if the power company can't keep the lights on, their will be lawsuits against them. I didn't tell them to fire half their employees, they made that choice. Winter is coming and I can imagine that this will be an issue for plenty of power companies. It's not only power companies but all businesses and entities.
It's a lose lose situation for everyone involved. We are constantly hearing about how doctors and nurses are burnt out and they are quitting by the day. Our health officials say we are in the middle of a pandemic but they are willing to fire all the unvaccinated people. That isn't my fault! Once again, they have a responsibility that they won't be able to fulfill because they made the choice to fire so many people.
I don't have a good solution. Maybe keep the vaccinated segregated from the unvaccinated? Take the power companies for example. There are vaccinated crews and unvaccinated crews. I don't know. All I do know is that I chose to get vaccinated and these vaccine mandates could easily hurt me and my family which is not fair.
Never said it was your fault. Why is a company more responsible than an individual and their responsibility for others?
Good morning. Immunization mandates aren’t new. One helped win the American Revolution.
The right to health
The United States owes its existence as a nation partly to an immunization mandate.
In 1777, smallpox was a big enough problem for the bedraggled American army that George Washington thought it could jeopardize the Revolution. An outbreak had already led to one American defeat, at the Battle of Quebec. To prevent more, Washington ordered immunizations — done quietly, so the British would not hear how many Americans were sick — for all troops who had not yet had the virus.
It worked. The number of smallpox cases plummeted, and Washington’s army survived a war of attrition against the world’s most powerful country. The immunization mandate, as Ron Chernow wrote in his 2010 Pulitzer Prize-winning biography of Washington, “was as important as any military measure Washington adopted during the war.”
In the decades that followed, immunization treatments became safer (the Revolutionary War method killed 2 percent or 3 percent of recipients), and mandates became more common, in the military and beyond. They also tended to generate hostility from a small minority of Americans.
A Cambridge, Mass., pastor took his opposition to a smallpox vaccine all the way to the Supreme Court in 1905, before losing. Fifty years later, while most Americans were celebrating the start of a mass vaccination campaign against polio, there were still some dissenters. A United Press wire-service article that ran in newspapers across the country on April 13, 1955, reported:
Hundreds of doctors and registered nurses stood ready to begin the stupendous task of inoculating the millions of children throughout the country.
Some hitches developed, however. In Maryland’s Montgomery County, 4,000 parents flatly refused to let their youngsters receive the vaccine. Two counties in Indiana objected that the plan smacked of socialized medicine.
Many vaccinations, few firings
We are now living through this cycle again. The deadline for many workplace mandates arrived this week, often requiring people to have received a Covid-19 vaccine or face being fired. In California, the deadline for health care workers is today.
As was the case with Washington’s army, the mandates are largely succeeding:
• California’s policy has led thousands of previously unvaccinated medical workers to receive shots in recent weeks. At Cedars-Sinai Medical Center in Los Angeles, about 800 additional workers have been vaccinated since the policy was announced last month, bringing the hospital’s vaccination rate to 97 percent, according to my colleague Shawn Hubler.
• When New York State announced a mandate for hospital and nursing-home staff members in August, about 75 percent of them had received a shot. By Monday, the share had risen to 92 percent. The increase amounts to roughly 100,000 newly vaccinated people.
• At Trinity Health, a hospital chain in 22 states, the increase has been similar — to 94 percent from 75 percent, The Times’s Reed Abelson reports. At Genesis HealthCare, which operates long-term-care facilities in 23 states, Covid cases fell by nearly 50 percent after nearly all staff members had finished receiving shots this summer.
Often, the number of people who ultimately refuse the vaccine is smaller than the number who first say they will. Some are persuaded by the information their employer gives them — about the vaccines’ effectiveness and safety, compared with the deadliness of Covid — and others decide they are not really willing to lose their jobs.
A North Carolina hospital system, Novant Health, last week suspended 375 workers, or about 1 percent of its work force, for being unvaccinated. By the end of the week, more than half of them — about 200 — received a shot and were reinstated.
Of course, 175 firings are not nothing. (A Washington Post headline trumpeted the story as “one of the largest-ever mass terminations due to a vaccine mandate.”) United Airlines said this week that it would terminate even more employees — about 600, or less than 1 percent of its U.S. work force.
These firings can create hardship for the workers and short-term disruptions for their employers. But those disruptions tend to be fleeting, because the percentage of workers is tiny. “I’m not seeing any widespread disruptive effect,” Saad Omer of the Yale Institute for Global Health told The Times.
And the benefits — reducing the spread of a deadly virus and lowering the chances it will mutate dangerously in the future — are large
Injury to others
The rationale for workplace mandates revolves around those large benefits: Even in a country that prioritizes individual freedom as much as the U.S. does, citizens do not have the right to harm their colleagues or their colleagues’ families, friends and communities. One person’s right to a healthy life is greater than another person’s right to a specific job.
As Carol Silver-Elliott, the chief executive of Jewish Home Family, a senior-care facility in New Jersey, told ABC News about her company’s mandate, “We felt it was a small price to pay to keep our elders safe, and it is something we feel very, very strongly about.”
After I spent some time reading about the history of vaccine mandates, I was struck by how little the debate has changed over the centuries. In 1905, when the Supreme Court ruled against the Massachusetts pastor who did not want to take a smallpox vaccine, Justice John Marshall Harlan explained that the Constitution did not allow Americans always to behave however they chose. “Real liberty for all could not exist,” Harlan wrote in his majority opinion, if people could act “regardless of the injury that may be done to others.”
(For more on mandates’ history, I recommend a Wall Street Journal essay by David Oshinsky of NYU Langone Health.)
Virus developments:
• AT&T reached a labor agreement to require vaccines for tens of thousands of employees.
• YouTube says it will ban all vaccine misinformation from its platform.
• China is planning a strict bubble around the Winter Olympics in February.
Something that this article doesn't mention is that small pox has a case fatality rate of 30%. Covid-19 is more around the 2-3% range.
I've spoke with multiple people that are refusing to get the vaccine and I've heard more than once that if the case fatality rate was higher, they would get the vaccine. We didn't get into what that number would have to be and who knows, maybe they are full of shit but there is a big difference between smallpox and Covid-19.
The next month is going to be interesting with these vaccine mandates coming down. The vaccine mandates are going to put a huge stress on many industries. My local hospital has a 55% vaccinated rate among the employees. They are already struggling with serving the needs of the public(only 9 hospitalized COVID cases). The walk-in clinic fills up in the morning and you have to wait all day to get help. I'm pretty sure both my local power companies are the same way. As someone who is vaccinated, what am I supposed to do when my local power company has issues keeping our power on because they just fired half their employees? It isn't my fault and I do tell the unvaccinated that I wish they would take it but that's all I can do.
Are you suggesting the low overall percentage rate of death relative to small pox is acceptable? 2-3% of 320 million is 6,400,000 to 9,600,000. The price to pay so unvaxxed can be selfish pricks?
Buy a generator and have it hard wired into your electrical box (I'm not saying that to be a dick because after a huge ice storm in the northeast a few years ago, there was a huge run on generators and most everyone that I know who lost power, now has one)? Life will go on, except for the 700,000 already dead 'Muricans and the anticipated 1,500 per day between now and the end of October, 46,500 more. What would or will you do if half the power plant staff dies from Covid? Expectations are that there will be another spike come November, December and January, another 91,000 dead at an average of 1,000/day.
Within the country, vaccination rates still vary widely. In some states, nearly 70 percent of people are fully vaccinated. In others, less than half have received even one dose. The gap in vaccination between Democratic and Republican voters continues to widen.
Since Dec. 14, more than 391,992,000 doses of a coronavirus vaccine have been administered in the U.S.
More than 184,335,000 people have completed vaccination, or about 55.52% of the population. Read more in our vaccination tracker.
I am vaccinated and I'm not trying to justify anyone dying. The fact of the matter is that half of the power plant won't die if they aren't vaccinated because COVID doesn't kill 50% like you are questioning.
My point is that I am vaccinated but I can't poke someone with a needle to make them vaccinated. It isn't my fault if the power company can't keep the lights on because they fired half their employees. The power companies have a responsibility to keep my power on. If they make the choice to fire half the employees and then fulfill their responsibility, it will hurt both the vaccinated and unvaccinated.
The argument can be made both ways. The difference is that if the power company can't keep the lights on, their will be lawsuits against them. I didn't tell them to fire half their employees, they made that choice. Winter is coming and I can imagine that this will be an issue for plenty of power companies. It's not only power companies but all businesses and entities.
It's a lose lose situation for everyone involved. We are constantly hearing about how doctors and nurses are burnt out and they are quitting by the day. Our health officials say we are in the middle of a pandemic but they are willing to fire all the unvaccinated people. That isn't my fault! Once again, they have a responsibility that they won't be able to fulfill because they made the choice to fire so many people.
I don't have a good solution. Maybe keep the vaccinated segregated from the unvaccinated? Take the power companies for example. There are vaccinated crews and unvaccinated crews. I don't know. All I do know is that I chose to get vaccinated and these vaccine mandates could easily hurt me and my family which is not fair.
Never said it was your fault. Why is a company more responsible than an individual and their responsibility for others?
These companies have received millions and millions of dollars to have what they have. Our local PUD built a freaking Taj Mahal for their offices. The employee can quit their job and walk away at anytime. The company has a responsibility to do what they've always done.
Here is my local PUD's mission statement: "Connecting our community with safe, reliable, economical, and sustainable services, 24/7."
If they choose to fire their employees, that is on them.
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,729
My brother (unvaxxed) was in the hospital coughing up blood last week after having COVID for 3 weeks…Get your vaccination!
That sucks, I'm sorry to hear it. Best wishes for your brother. Maybe when he gets better he will become an advocate for getting vaccinated. In any case, best wishes.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
My brother (unvaxxed) was in the hospital coughing up blood last week after having COVID for 3 weeks…Get your vaccination!
sorry to hear that dude. is he improving?
Slowly…It was determined that he has a pneumothorax (hole in lung). Evidently this is happening to some people a week or two after Covid (possibly due to lung cysts forming/busting). His lungs were collapsing and he was coughing up blood last Thursday. Doctors think it will heal on its own, but he is on some pretty major physical restrictions. There was also quite a bit of scaring in his lungs from his initial infection. He says he is feeling better, but I think he will probably have breathing issues for a long time…
My brother (unvaxxed) was in the hospital coughing up blood last week after having COVID for 3 weeks…Get your vaccination!
That sucks, I'm sorry to hear it. Best wishes for your brother. Maybe when he gets better he will become an advocate for getting vaccinated. In any case, best wishes.
One can only hope…Thanks Brian! It really pisses me off because he has seen first hand how serious of a deal this is. One of my uncles died from it last year right before the vaccines were available. I’m trying not to be angry with him, but his bad decision has screwed up a lot of plans and burdened a lot of people.
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F Me In The Brain
this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 30,625
My brother (unvaxxed) was in the hospital coughing up blood last week after having COVID for 3 weeks…Get your vaccination!
That sucks, I'm sorry to hear it. Best wishes for your brother. Maybe when he gets better he will become an advocate for getting vaccinated. In any case, best wishes.
One can only hope…Thanks Brian! It really pisses me off because he has seen first hand how serious of a deal this is. One of my uncles died from it last year right before the vaccines were available. I’m trying not to be angry with him, but his bad decision has screwed up a lot of plans and burdened a lot of people.
oh man i am so sorry to hear about your brother and uncle. fingers crossed for a full recovery and that he does not end up a long hauler who has to deal with these issues long term. i have a friend who works with long haulers. he said that most of them the covid infection did not make them that sick, but it was the result of the infection, the lung scarring, etc that has made it very difficult to fully recover. good luck to him and your family.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
i got the 3rd shot about 16 hours ago. nothing to report other than i was tired about 4 hours after getting it. slept really well last night. was slightly tired when i woke up 4 hours ago, and my arm is barely sore. maybe on a scale of 0-10 it is about 1 when i move it a certain direction. no fevers, no chills, or any systemic side effects.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
My brother (unvaxxed) was in the hospital coughing up blood last week after having COVID for 3 weeks…Get your vaccination!
That sucks, I'm sorry to hear it. Best wishes for your brother. Maybe when he gets better he will become an advocate for getting vaccinated. In any case, best wishes.
One can only hope…Thanks Brian! It really pisses me off because he has seen first hand how serious of a deal this is. One of my uncles died from it last year right before the vaccines were available. I’m trying not to be angry with him, but his bad decision has screwed up a lot of plans and burdened a lot of people.
Geez. This all sounds terrible.
And it's a good illustration of the intersection of the political and the personal. It's why I don't celebrate when an unvaxed person dies; it could be my friend or relative next time. And even here; I don't know you or him but I hope he 1) survives and 2) doesn't have his quality of life negatively impacted for a long time.
This is all so sad and frustrating (both on the personal and political level).
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My brother (unvaxxed) was in the hospital coughing up blood last week after having COVID for 3 weeks…Get your vaccination!
That sucks, I'm sorry to hear it. Best wishes for your brother. Maybe when he gets better he will become an advocate for getting vaccinated. In any case, best wishes.
One can only hope…Thanks Brian! It really pisses me off because he has seen first hand how serious of a deal this is. One of my uncles died from it last year right before the vaccines were available. I’m trying not to be angry with him, but his bad decision has screwed up a lot of plans and burdened a lot of people.
I'm sorry for your uncle, and hope your brother makes a full recovery.
My brother (unvaxxed) was in the hospital coughing up blood last week after having COVID for 3 weeks…Get your vaccination!
That sucks, I'm sorry to hear it. Best wishes for your brother. Maybe when he gets better he will become an advocate for getting vaccinated. In any case, best wishes.
One can only hope…Thanks Brian! It really pisses me off because he has seen first hand how serious of a deal this is. One of my uncles died from it last year right before the vaccines were available. I’m trying not to be angry with him, but his bad decision has screwed up a lot of plans and burdened a lot of people.
So sorry to hear about your brother & uncle. I hope he recovers quickly.
Thanks everyone, it’s been an emotional couple of weeks for sure. On a side note, my mother was vaccinated and got Covid (breakthrough case) at the same time as my brother. She didn’t have near as severe of a case, even though she is in her mid 60s. My father (also vaccinated) was around her and my brother the whole time and never got sick.
Anecdotal some might say, but it would definitely seem like the ones that are vaccinated in my family are not getting anywhere near as severe of cases.
Thanks everyone, it’s been an emotional couple of weeks for sure. On a side note, my mother was vaccinated and got Covid (breakthrough case) at the same time as my brother. She didn’t have near as severe of a case, even though she is in her mid 60s. My father (also vaccinated) was around her and my brother the whole time and never got sick.
Anecdotal some might say, but it would definitely seem like the ones that are vaccinated in my family are not getting anywhere near as severe of cases.
oh man. i am sorry your whole family has been touched by this virus.
as you probably know the point of the vaccine is to not keep you 100% safe from catching it, it is to make sure you do not get as severe of a case if you catch it.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
Thanks everyone, it’s been an emotional couple of weeks for sure. On a side note, my mother was vaccinated and got Covid (breakthrough case) at the same time as my brother. She didn’t have near as severe of a case, even though she is in her mid 60s. My father (also vaccinated) was around her and my brother the whole time and never got sick.
Anecdotal some might say, but it would definitely seem like the ones that are vaccinated in my family are not getting anywhere near as severe of cases.
oh man. i am sorry your whole family has been touched by this virus.
as you probably know the point of the vaccine is to not keep you 100% safe from catching it, it is to make sure you do not get as severe of a case if you catch it.
Exactly, and I am so tired of hearing people say “I know so and so that was vaccinated and still got Covid”. Yes, you can still get it, but your odds are so much greater at getting a less severe case if you’re vaccinated. It’s not just about the deaths, either, the life altering lung and other debilitating health issues are also a major risk with not being vaccinated.
Thanks everyone, it’s been an emotional couple of weeks for sure. On a side note, my mother was vaccinated and got Covid (breakthrough case) at the same time as my brother. She didn’t have near as severe of a case, even though she is in her mid 60s. My father (also vaccinated) was around her and my brother the whole time and never got sick.
Anecdotal some might say, but it would definitely seem like the ones that are vaccinated in my family are not getting anywhere near as severe of cases.
Thanks everyone, it’s been an emotional couple of weeks for sure. On a side note, my mother was vaccinated and got Covid (breakthrough case) at the same time as my brother. She didn’t have near as severe of a case, even though she is in her mid 60s. My father (also vaccinated) was around her and my brother the whole time and never got sick.
Anecdotal some might say, but it would definitely seem like the ones that are vaccinated in my family are not getting anywhere near as severe of cases.
Well all of this is proven out by reams of data.
There is that too, ha
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
My brother (unvaxxed) was in the hospital coughing up blood last week after having COVID for 3 weeks…Get your vaccination!
That sucks, I'm sorry to hear it. Best wishes for your brother. Maybe when he gets better he will become an advocate for getting vaccinated. In any case, best wishes.
One can only hope…Thanks Brian! It really pisses me off because he has seen first hand how serious of a deal this is. One of my uncles died from it last year right before the vaccines were available. I’m trying not to be angry with him, but his bad decision has screwed up a lot of plans and burdened a lot of people.
Geez. This all sounds terrible.
And it's a good illustration of the intersection of the political and the personal. It's why I don't celebrate when an unvaxed person dies; it could be my friend or relative next time. And even here; I don't know you or him but I hope he 1) survives and 2) doesn't have his quality of life negatively impacted for a long time.
This is all so sad and frustrating (both on the personal and political level).
Thanks everyone, it’s been an emotional couple of weeks for sure. On a side note, my mother was vaccinated and got Covid (breakthrough case) at the same time as my brother. She didn’t have near as severe of a case, even though she is in her mid 60s. My father (also vaccinated) was around her and my brother the whole time and never got sick.
Anecdotal some might say, but it would definitely seem like the ones that are vaccinated in my family are not getting anywhere near as severe of cases.
oh man. i am sorry your whole family has been touched by this virus.
as you probably know the point of the vaccine is to not keep you 100% safe from catching it, it is to make sure you do not get as severe of a case if you catch it.
Exactly, and I am so tired of hearing people say “I know so and so that was vaccinated and still got Covid”. Yes, you can still get it, but your odds are so much greater at getting a less severe case if you’re vaccinated. It’s not just about the deaths, either, the life altering lung and other debilitating health issues are also a major risk with not being vaccinated.
also they are finding that men with long haul covid are having issued with erectile dysfunction and also different types or neurological issues. hopefully none of that happens.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
Thanks everyone, it’s been an emotional couple of weeks for sure. On a side note, my mother was vaccinated and got Covid (breakthrough case) at the same time as my brother. She didn’t have near as severe of a case, even though she is in her mid 60s. My father (also vaccinated) was around her and my brother the whole time and never got sick.
Anecdotal some might say, but it would definitely seem like the ones that are vaccinated in my family are not getting anywhere near as severe of cases.
oh man. i am sorry your whole family has been touched by this virus.
as you probably know the point of the vaccine is to not keep you 100% safe from catching it, it is to make sure you do not get as severe of a case if you catch it.
Exactly, and I am so tired of hearing people say “I know so and so that was vaccinated and still got Covid”. Yes, you can still get it, but your odds are so much greater at getting a less severe case if you’re vaccinated. It’s not just about the deaths, either, the life altering lung and other debilitating health issues are also a major risk with not being vaccinated.
also they are finding that men with long haul covid are having issued with erectile dysfunction and also different types or neurological issues. hopefully none of that happens.
Hope not, but I guess that’s part of the gamble of not getting a simple vaccine.
we had just hit about 425k when Biden took the oath, no? we seem to be on track to match last years total which was really just ramping up and "beginning" around march 2020. kinda on track to match or exceed last year. wonder how much worse this year would have been without vax.....
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,729
One of my closest relatives works in a legal office that has a new hire who has proven himself to be flaky in various ways. The worst is that he recently went to work sick, then got tested and found out he has COVID, then decided to stay home. He is remarried and between he and his wife, they have seven kids and now everyone in that household has COVID. The impression I got was that they are anti vax. Way to go people.
Thankfully, this relative (who is both very careful and fully vaccinated, got tested and tested negative. But because she was needlessly exposed, had to cancel a very important meeting. Anti-vax people just don't seem to understand how far reaching their stubborn ways can negatively affect others.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
I'm pretty sure that was from his first live show. Quite awhile ago now. They were celebrating coming back to a live audience. Don't really understand the problem and why you are posting it now.
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www.headstonesband.com
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
And it's a good illustration of the intersection of the political and the personal. It's why I don't celebrate when an unvaxed person dies; it could be my friend or relative next time. And even here; I don't know you or him but I hope he 1) survives and 2) doesn't have his quality of life negatively impacted for a long time.
This is all so sad and frustrating (both on the personal and political level).
2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin
www.cluthelee.com
www.cluthe.com
as you probably know the point of the vaccine is to not keep you 100% safe from catching it, it is to make sure you do not get as severe of a case if you catch it.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Good thoughts from here, PJP.
also they are finding that men with long haul covid are having issued with erectile dysfunction and also different types or neurological issues. hopefully none of that happens.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Pearl Jam bootlegs:
http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
we had just hit about 425k when Biden took the oath, no? we seem to be on track to match last years total which was really just ramping up and "beginning" around march 2020. kinda on track to match or exceed last year. wonder how much worse this year would have been without vax.....
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14