Ohana Festival Update

given2fly23 · August 2021

bbiggs said:

given2fly23 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

Don't call out vaccinated people who opt out of shows because they don't want to mask up.
They aren't spreading misinformation....they are not working to try and spread the virus - they are fully vaccinated.
Right to choose to stay home is a position I would think we should respect 1000%.
I won't, right now, go to a show , even one that requires vaccinations even if I do wear a mask. I'm fully vaccinated and am being very selective on what I venture into the masses to do. Right now, concerts are not high enough on my list. We all love Pearl Jam, I'm sure we all would love to see Pearl Jam. Some of the settings are not ones we choose to be in.

In the case of concerts/events and the decisions to go forward or cancel, the voices refusing to wear a mask have the same effect as anti-vaxxers. You think bands would be canceling if they had 100% cooperation from fans or a good way to enforce rules? Airlines are functioning smoothly for the most part because passengers know their options are to mask up or be removed/arrested. 100% agree on the right to stay home. If it was up to me, all concerts would be small enough to enforce rules right now. Those of us willing to follow the rules could go, behave and enjoy the show. Everyone else can stay home. But when you go full capacity knowing that fans will complain about every little thing as the situation changes on a daily basis, I don't blame big bands for not wanting to deal with it.

Give me a break. There is literally a vaccine mandate (or negative test) to go to this outdoor show. You're way off base with this.

The problem is that vaccines aren't enough to stop the spread right now. Vaccinated people are getting COVID (though the hosp/death rate is super-low). This is a new development since these shows were announced/sold, so if the venue/promoter/band has to adjust the requirements, so what? No one can predict the where the virus is going and some flexibility has to be acceptable. If it isn't to someone, then they should stay home, because the situation will probably change again next week. I stand by my statement.

HughFreakingDillon · August 2021

given2fly23 said:

bbiggs said:

given2fly23 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

Don't call out vaccinated people who opt out of shows because they don't want to mask up.
They aren't spreading misinformation....they are not working to try and spread the virus - they are fully vaccinated.
Right to choose to stay home is a position I would think we should respect 1000%.
I won't, right now, go to a show , even one that requires vaccinations even if I do wear a mask. I'm fully vaccinated and am being very selective on what I venture into the masses to do. Right now, concerts are not high enough on my list. We all love Pearl Jam, I'm sure we all would love to see Pearl Jam. Some of the settings are not ones we choose to be in.

In the case of concerts/events and the decisions to go forward or cancel, the voices refusing to wear a mask have the same effect as anti-vaxxers. You think bands would be canceling if they had 100% cooperation from fans or a good way to enforce rules? Airlines are functioning smoothly for the most part because passengers know their options are to mask up or be removed/arrested. 100% agree on the right to stay home. If it was up to me, all concerts would be small enough to enforce rules right now. Those of us willing to follow the rules could go, behave and enjoy the show. Everyone else can stay home. But when you go full capacity knowing that fans will complain about every little thing as the situation changes on a daily basis, I don't blame big bands for not wanting to deal with it.

Give me a break. There is literally a vaccine mandate (or negative test) to go to this outdoor show. You're way off base with this.

The problem is that vaccines aren't enough to stop the spread right now. Vaccinated people are getting COVID (though the hosp/death rate is super-low). This is a new development since these shows were announced/sold, so if the venue/promoter/band has to adjust the requirements, so what? No one can predict the where the virus is going and some flexibility has to be acceptable. If it isn't to someone, then they should stay home, because the situation will probably change again next week. I stand by my statement.

haven't we known pretty much since the vaccines came out that the vaccine doesn't stop the spread? I don't feel like this is new information.

given2fly23 · August 2021

HughFreakingDillon said:

given2fly23 said:

bbiggs said:

given2fly23 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

Don't call out vaccinated people who opt out of shows because they don't want to mask up.
They aren't spreading misinformation....they are not working to try and spread the virus - they are fully vaccinated.
Right to choose to stay home is a position I would think we should respect 1000%.
I won't, right now, go to a show , even one that requires vaccinations even if I do wear a mask. I'm fully vaccinated and am being very selective on what I venture into the masses to do. Right now, concerts are not high enough on my list. We all love Pearl Jam, I'm sure we all would love to see Pearl Jam. Some of the settings are not ones we choose to be in.

In the case of concerts/events and the decisions to go forward or cancel, the voices refusing to wear a mask have the same effect as anti-vaxxers. You think bands would be canceling if they had 100% cooperation from fans or a good way to enforce rules? Airlines are functioning smoothly for the most part because passengers know their options are to mask up or be removed/arrested. 100% agree on the right to stay home. If it was up to me, all concerts would be small enough to enforce rules right now. Those of us willing to follow the rules could go, behave and enjoy the show. Everyone else can stay home. But when you go full capacity knowing that fans will complain about every little thing as the situation changes on a daily basis, I don't blame big bands for not wanting to deal with it.

Give me a break. There is literally a vaccine mandate (or negative test) to go to this outdoor show. You're way off base with this.

The problem is that vaccines aren't enough to stop the spread right now. Vaccinated people are getting COVID (though the hosp/death rate is super-low). This is a new development since these shows were announced/sold, so if the venue/promoter/band has to adjust the requirements, so what? No one can predict the where the virus is going and some flexibility has to be acceptable. If it isn't to someone, then they should stay home, because the situation will probably change again next week. I stand by my statement.

haven't we known pretty much since the vaccines came out that the vaccine doesn't stop the spread? I don't feel like this is new information.

They were never 100% effective (no vaccine is), but Delta has increased breakthrough cases significantly. Again, I'm not an infectious disease expert, so I try to listen to those who are.

bbiggs · August 2021

given2fly23 said:

bbiggs said:

given2fly23 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

Don't call out vaccinated people who opt out of shows because they don't want to mask up.
They aren't spreading misinformation....they are not working to try and spread the virus - they are fully vaccinated.
Right to choose to stay home is a position I would think we should respect 1000%.
I won't, right now, go to a show , even one that requires vaccinations even if I do wear a mask. I'm fully vaccinated and am being very selective on what I venture into the masses to do. Right now, concerts are not high enough on my list. We all love Pearl Jam, I'm sure we all would love to see Pearl Jam. Some of the settings are not ones we choose to be in.

In the case of concerts/events and the decisions to go forward or cancel, the voices refusing to wear a mask have the same effect as anti-vaxxers. You think bands would be canceling if they had 100% cooperation from fans or a good way to enforce rules? Airlines are functioning smoothly for the most part because passengers know their options are to mask up or be removed/arrested. 100% agree on the right to stay home. If it was up to me, all concerts would be small enough to enforce rules right now. Those of us willing to follow the rules could go, behave and enjoy the show. Everyone else can stay home. But when you go full capacity knowing that fans will complain about every little thing as the situation changes on a daily basis, I don't blame big bands for not wanting to deal with it.

Give me a break. There is literally a vaccine mandate (or negative test) to go to this outdoor show. You're way off base with this.

The problem is that vaccines aren't enough to stop the spread right now. Vaccinated people are getting COVID (though the hosp/death rate is super-low). This is a new development since these shows were announced/sold, so if the venue/promoter/band has to adjust the requirements, so what? No one can predict the where the virus is going and some flexibility has to be acceptable. If it isn't to someone, then they should stay home, because the situation will probably change again next week. I stand by my statement.

This will be my last comment on this. First, see Lollapalooza. Zero masks and zero issue from that mass gathering according to the experts. Second, I agree with you saying if a band/ venue/ promoter changes requirements and a ticket holder doesn't accept the changes, they should stay home. That contradicts your barrage of comments that ensued when I said I'd stay home if a mask mandate was added. It led to all sorts of BS assumptions including anti-vax, Trump, gun-toting, marrying a neighbor's dog, etc. All good though. That stuff is humorous to me and I have better things to do than argue on a rock band forum.

HughFreakingDillon · August 2021

given2fly23 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

given2fly23 said:

bbiggs said:

given2fly23 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

Don't call out vaccinated people who opt out of shows because they don't want to mask up.
They aren't spreading misinformation....they are not working to try and spread the virus - they are fully vaccinated.
Right to choose to stay home is a position I would think we should respect 1000%.
I won't, right now, go to a show , even one that requires vaccinations even if I do wear a mask. I'm fully vaccinated and am being very selective on what I venture into the masses to do. Right now, concerts are not high enough on my list. We all love Pearl Jam, I'm sure we all would love to see Pearl Jam. Some of the settings are not ones we choose to be in.

In the case of concerts/events and the decisions to go forward or cancel, the voices refusing to wear a mask have the same effect as anti-vaxxers. You think bands would be canceling if they had 100% cooperation from fans or a good way to enforce rules? Airlines are functioning smoothly for the most part because passengers know their options are to mask up or be removed/arrested. 100% agree on the right to stay home. If it was up to me, all concerts would be small enough to enforce rules right now. Those of us willing to follow the rules could go, behave and enjoy the show. Everyone else can stay home. But when you go full capacity knowing that fans will complain about every little thing as the situation changes on a daily basis, I don't blame big bands for not wanting to deal with it.

Give me a break. There is literally a vaccine mandate (or negative test) to go to this outdoor show. You're way off base with this.

The problem is that vaccines aren't enough to stop the spread right now. Vaccinated people are getting COVID (though the hosp/death rate is super-low). This is a new development since these shows were announced/sold, so if the venue/promoter/band has to adjust the requirements, so what? No one can predict the where the virus is going and some flexibility has to be acceptable. If it isn't to someone, then they should stay home, because the situation will probably change again next week. I stand by my statement.

haven't we known pretty much since the vaccines came out that the vaccine doesn't stop the spread? I don't feel like this is new information.

They were never 100% effective (no vaccine is), but Delta has increased breakthrough cases significantly. Again, I'm not an infectious disease expert, so I try to listen to those who are.

You said "vaccines aren't enough to stop the spread right now....this is a new development since these shows were announced/sold".

no, it isn't.

Gern Blansten · August 2021

bbiggs said:

given2fly23 said:

bbiggs said:

given2fly23 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

Don't call out vaccinated people who opt out of shows because they don't want to mask up.
They aren't spreading misinformation....they are not working to try and spread the virus - they are fully vaccinated.
Right to choose to stay home is a position I would think we should respect 1000%.
I won't, right now, go to a show , even one that requires vaccinations even if I do wear a mask. I'm fully vaccinated and am being very selective on what I venture into the masses to do. Right now, concerts are not high enough on my list. We all love Pearl Jam, I'm sure we all would love to see Pearl Jam. Some of the settings are not ones we choose to be in.

In the case of concerts/events and the decisions to go forward or cancel, the voices refusing to wear a mask have the same effect as anti-vaxxers. You think bands would be canceling if they had 100% cooperation from fans or a good way to enforce rules? Airlines are functioning smoothly for the most part because passengers know their options are to mask up or be removed/arrested. 100% agree on the right to stay home. If it was up to me, all concerts would be small enough to enforce rules right now. Those of us willing to follow the rules could go, behave and enjoy the show. Everyone else can stay home. But when you go full capacity knowing that fans will complain about every little thing as the situation changes on a daily basis, I don't blame big bands for not wanting to deal with it.

Give me a break. There is literally a vaccine mandate (or negative test) to go to this outdoor show. You're way off base with this.

The problem is that vaccines aren't enough to stop the spread right now. Vaccinated people are getting COVID (though the hosp/death rate is super-low). This is a new development since these shows were announced/sold, so if the venue/promoter/band has to adjust the requirements, so what? No one can predict the where the virus is going and some flexibility has to be acceptable. If it isn't to someone, then they should stay home, because the situation will probably change again next week. I stand by my statement.

This will be my last comment on this. First, see Lollapalooza. Zero masks and zero issue from that mass gathering according to the experts. Second, I agree with you saying if a band/ venue/ promoter changes requirements and a ticket holder doesn't accept the changes, they should stay home. That contradicts your barrage of comments that ensued when I said I'd stay home if a mask mandate was added. It led to all sorts of BS assumptions including anti-vax, Trump, gun-toting, marrying a neighbor's dog, etc. All good though. That stuff is humorous to me and I have better things to do than argue on a rock band forum.

but was Delta at a peak then? I think that is the issue. Although I keep hearing that they expect a decrease in cases since it has already pushed a big wave through

given2fly23 · August 2021

HughFreakingDillon said:

given2fly23 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

given2fly23 said:

bbiggs said:

given2fly23 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

Don't call out vaccinated people who opt out of shows because they don't want to mask up.
They aren't spreading misinformation....they are not working to try and spread the virus - they are fully vaccinated.
Right to choose to stay home is a position I would think we should respect 1000%.
I won't, right now, go to a show , even one that requires vaccinations even if I do wear a mask. I'm fully vaccinated and am being very selective on what I venture into the masses to do. Right now, concerts are not high enough on my list. We all love Pearl Jam, I'm sure we all would love to see Pearl Jam. Some of the settings are not ones we choose to be in.

In the case of concerts/events and the decisions to go forward or cancel, the voices refusing to wear a mask have the same effect as anti-vaxxers. You think bands would be canceling if they had 100% cooperation from fans or a good way to enforce rules? Airlines are functioning smoothly for the most part because passengers know their options are to mask up or be removed/arrested. 100% agree on the right to stay home. If it was up to me, all concerts would be small enough to enforce rules right now. Those of us willing to follow the rules could go, behave and enjoy the show. Everyone else can stay home. But when you go full capacity knowing that fans will complain about every little thing as the situation changes on a daily basis, I don't blame big bands for not wanting to deal with it.

Give me a break. There is literally a vaccine mandate (or negative test) to go to this outdoor show. You're way off base with this.

The problem is that vaccines aren't enough to stop the spread right now. Vaccinated people are getting COVID (though the hosp/death rate is super-low). This is a new development since these shows were announced/sold, so if the venue/promoter/band has to adjust the requirements, so what? No one can predict the where the virus is going and some flexibility has to be acceptable. If it isn't to someone, then they should stay home, because the situation will probably change again next week. I stand by my statement.

haven't we known pretty much since the vaccines came out that the vaccine doesn't stop the spread? I don't feel like this is new information.

They were never 100% effective (no vaccine is), but Delta has increased breakthrough cases significantly. Again, I'm not an infectious disease expert, so I try to listen to those who are.

You said "vaccines aren't enough to stop the spread right now....this is a new development since these shows were announced/sold".

no, it isn't.

Delta...a mutation that the vaccine isn't as effective against as the original strain...isn't a new development since Ohana was announced/sold?

given2fly23 · August 2021

bbiggs said:

given2fly23 said:

bbiggs said:

given2fly23 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

Don't call out vaccinated people who opt out of shows because they don't want to mask up.
They aren't spreading misinformation....they are not working to try and spread the virus - they are fully vaccinated.
Right to choose to stay home is a position I would think we should respect 1000%.
I won't, right now, go to a show , even one that requires vaccinations even if I do wear a mask. I'm fully vaccinated and am being very selective on what I venture into the masses to do. Right now, concerts are not high enough on my list. We all love Pearl Jam, I'm sure we all would love to see Pearl Jam. Some of the settings are not ones we choose to be in.

In the case of concerts/events and the decisions to go forward or cancel, the voices refusing to wear a mask have the same effect as anti-vaxxers. You think bands would be canceling if they had 100% cooperation from fans or a good way to enforce rules? Airlines are functioning smoothly for the most part because passengers know their options are to mask up or be removed/arrested. 100% agree on the right to stay home. If it was up to me, all concerts would be small enough to enforce rules right now. Those of us willing to follow the rules could go, behave and enjoy the show. Everyone else can stay home. But when you go full capacity knowing that fans will complain about every little thing as the situation changes on a daily basis, I don't blame big bands for not wanting to deal with it.

Give me a break. There is literally a vaccine mandate (or negative test) to go to this outdoor show. You're way off base with this.

The problem is that vaccines aren't enough to stop the spread right now. Vaccinated people are getting COVID (though the hosp/death rate is super-low). This is a new development since these shows were announced/sold, so if the venue/promoter/band has to adjust the requirements, so what? No one can predict the where the virus is going and some flexibility has to be acceptable. If it isn't to someone, then they should stay home, because the situation will probably change again next week. I stand by my statement.

This will be my last comment on this. First, see Lollapalooza. Zero masks and zero issue from that mass gathering according to the experts. Second, I agree with you saying if a band/ venue/ promoter changes requirements and a ticket holder doesn't accept the changes, they should stay home. That contradicts your barrage of comments that ensued when I said I'd stay home if a mask mandate was added. It led to all sorts of BS assumptions including anti-vax, Trump, gun-toting, marrying a neighbor's dog, etc. All good though. That stuff is humorous to me and I have better things to do than argue on a rock band forum.

I'll apologize--I shouldn't have jumped on you like that. I've seen you around these boards enough to know you're not a conspiracy nut. I was surprised by your stance (for that same reason) and I was disappointed by today's NIN announcement and it worries me about Ohana. To me, a mask is no big deal. We can disagree on that as long as we agree on what you indicated above. No hard feelings, I hope.

HughFreakingDillon · August 2021

given2fly23 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

given2fly23 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

given2fly23 said:

bbiggs said:

given2fly23 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

Don't call out vaccinated people who opt out of shows because they don't want to mask up.
They aren't spreading misinformation....they are not working to try and spread the virus - they are fully vaccinated.
Right to choose to stay home is a position I would think we should respect 1000%.
I won't, right now, go to a show , even one that requires vaccinations even if I do wear a mask. I'm fully vaccinated and am being very selective on what I venture into the masses to do. Right now, concerts are not high enough on my list. We all love Pearl Jam, I'm sure we all would love to see Pearl Jam. Some of the settings are not ones we choose to be in.

In the case of concerts/events and the decisions to go forward or cancel, the voices refusing to wear a mask have the same effect as anti-vaxxers. You think bands would be canceling if they had 100% cooperation from fans or a good way to enforce rules? Airlines are functioning smoothly for the most part because passengers know their options are to mask up or be removed/arrested. 100% agree on the right to stay home. If it was up to me, all concerts would be small enough to enforce rules right now. Those of us willing to follow the rules could go, behave and enjoy the show. Everyone else can stay home. But when you go full capacity knowing that fans will complain about every little thing as the situation changes on a daily basis, I don't blame big bands for not wanting to deal with it.

Give me a break. There is literally a vaccine mandate (or negative test) to go to this outdoor show. You're way off base with this.

The problem is that vaccines aren't enough to stop the spread right now. Vaccinated people are getting COVID (though the hosp/death rate is super-low). This is a new development since these shows were announced/sold, so if the venue/promoter/band has to adjust the requirements, so what? No one can predict the where the virus is going and some flexibility has to be acceptable. If it isn't to someone, then they should stay home, because the situation will probably change again next week. I stand by my statement.

haven't we known pretty much since the vaccines came out that the vaccine doesn't stop the spread? I don't feel like this is new information.

They were never 100% effective (no vaccine is), but Delta has increased breakthrough cases significantly. Again, I'm not an infectious disease expert, so I try to listen to those who are.

You said "vaccines aren't enough to stop the spread right now....this is a new development since these shows were announced/sold".

no, it isn't.

Delta...a mutation that the vaccine isn't as effective against as the original strain...isn't a new development since Ohana was announced/sold?

Sure, if you want to move the goal posts, cuz you didn't mention that specifically initially.

ComeToTX · August 2021

given2fly23 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

given2fly23 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

given2fly23 said:

bbiggs said:

given2fly23 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

Don't call out vaccinated people who opt out of shows because they don't want to mask up.
They aren't spreading misinformation....they are not working to try and spread the virus - they are fully vaccinated.
Right to choose to stay home is a position I would think we should respect 1000%.
I won't, right now, go to a show , even one that requires vaccinations even if I do wear a mask. I'm fully vaccinated and am being very selective on what I venture into the masses to do. Right now, concerts are not high enough on my list. We all love Pearl Jam, I'm sure we all would love to see Pearl Jam. Some of the settings are not ones we choose to be in.

In the case of concerts/events and the decisions to go forward or cancel, the voices refusing to wear a mask have the same effect as anti-vaxxers. You think bands would be canceling if they had 100% cooperation from fans or a good way to enforce rules? Airlines are functioning smoothly for the most part because passengers know their options are to mask up or be removed/arrested. 100% agree on the right to stay home. If it was up to me, all concerts would be small enough to enforce rules right now. Those of us willing to follow the rules could go, behave and enjoy the show. Everyone else can stay home. But when you go full capacity knowing that fans will complain about every little thing as the situation changes on a daily basis, I don't blame big bands for not wanting to deal with it.

Give me a break. There is literally a vaccine mandate (or negative test) to go to this outdoor show. You're way off base with this.

The problem is that vaccines aren't enough to stop the spread right now. Vaccinated people are getting COVID (though the hosp/death rate is super-low). This is a new development since these shows were announced/sold, so if the venue/promoter/band has to adjust the requirements, so what? No one can predict the where the virus is going and some flexibility has to be acceptable. If it isn't to someone, then they should stay home, because the situation will probably change again next week. I stand by my statement.

haven't we known pretty much since the vaccines came out that the vaccine doesn't stop the spread? I don't feel like this is new information.

They were never 100% effective (no vaccine is), but Delta has increased breakthrough cases significantly. Again, I'm not an infectious disease expert, so I try to listen to those who are.

You said "vaccines aren't enough to stop the spread right now....this is a new development since these shows were announced/sold".

no, it isn't.

Delta...a mutation that the vaccine isn't as effective against as the original strain...isn't a new development since Ohana was announced/sold?

Delta was very well known when Encore weekend was announced.

given2fly23 · August 2021

HughFreakingDillon said:

given2fly23 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

given2fly23 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

given2fly23 said:

bbiggs said:

given2fly23 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

Don't call out vaccinated people who opt out of shows because they don't want to mask up.
They aren't spreading misinformation....they are not working to try and spread the virus - they are fully vaccinated.
Right to choose to stay home is a position I would think we should respect 1000%.
I won't, right now, go to a show , even one that requires vaccinations even if I do wear a mask. I'm fully vaccinated and am being very selective on what I venture into the masses to do. Right now, concerts are not high enough on my list. We all love Pearl Jam, I'm sure we all would love to see Pearl Jam. Some of the settings are not ones we choose to be in.

In the case of concerts/events and the decisions to go forward or cancel, the voices refusing to wear a mask have the same effect as anti-vaxxers. You think bands would be canceling if they had 100% cooperation from fans or a good way to enforce rules? Airlines are functioning smoothly for the most part because passengers know their options are to mask up or be removed/arrested. 100% agree on the right to stay home. If it was up to me, all concerts would be small enough to enforce rules right now. Those of us willing to follow the rules could go, behave and enjoy the show. Everyone else can stay home. But when you go full capacity knowing that fans will complain about every little thing as the situation changes on a daily basis, I don't blame big bands for not wanting to deal with it.

Give me a break. There is literally a vaccine mandate (or negative test) to go to this outdoor show. You're way off base with this.

The problem is that vaccines aren't enough to stop the spread right now. Vaccinated people are getting COVID (though the hosp/death rate is super-low). This is a new development since these shows were announced/sold, so if the venue/promoter/band has to adjust the requirements, so what? No one can predict the where the virus is going and some flexibility has to be acceptable. If it isn't to someone, then they should stay home, because the situation will probably change again next week. I stand by my statement.

haven't we known pretty much since the vaccines came out that the vaccine doesn't stop the spread? I don't feel like this is new information.

They were never 100% effective (no vaccine is), but Delta has increased breakthrough cases significantly. Again, I'm not an infectious disease expert, so I try to listen to those who are.

You said "vaccines aren't enough to stop the spread right now....this is a new development since these shows were announced/sold".

no, it isn't.

Delta...a mutation that the vaccine isn't as effective against as the original strain...isn't a new development since Ohana was announced/sold?

Sure, if you want to move the goal posts, cuz you didn't mention that specifically initially.

"Move the goal posts" implies bad faith, as if you didn't know that it's Delta causing these changes, so not gonna bother to respond.

HughFreakingDillon · August 2021

given2fly23 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

given2fly23 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

given2fly23 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

given2fly23 said:

bbiggs said:

given2fly23 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

Don't call out vaccinated people who opt out of shows because they don't want to mask up.
They aren't spreading misinformation....they are not working to try and spread the virus - they are fully vaccinated.
Right to choose to stay home is a position I would think we should respect 1000%.
I won't, right now, go to a show , even one that requires vaccinations even if I do wear a mask. I'm fully vaccinated and am being very selective on what I venture into the masses to do. Right now, concerts are not high enough on my list. We all love Pearl Jam, I'm sure we all would love to see Pearl Jam. Some of the settings are not ones we choose to be in.

In the case of concerts/events and the decisions to go forward or cancel, the voices refusing to wear a mask have the same effect as anti-vaxxers. You think bands would be canceling if they had 100% cooperation from fans or a good way to enforce rules? Airlines are functioning smoothly for the most part because passengers know their options are to mask up or be removed/arrested. 100% agree on the right to stay home. If it was up to me, all concerts would be small enough to enforce rules right now. Those of us willing to follow the rules could go, behave and enjoy the show. Everyone else can stay home. But when you go full capacity knowing that fans will complain about every little thing as the situation changes on a daily basis, I don't blame big bands for not wanting to deal with it.

Give me a break. There is literally a vaccine mandate (or negative test) to go to this outdoor show. You're way off base with this.

The problem is that vaccines aren't enough to stop the spread right now. Vaccinated people are getting COVID (though the hosp/death rate is super-low). This is a new development since these shows were announced/sold, so if the venue/promoter/band has to adjust the requirements, so what? No one can predict the where the virus is going and some flexibility has to be acceptable. If it isn't to someone, then they should stay home, because the situation will probably change again next week. I stand by my statement.

haven't we known pretty much since the vaccines came out that the vaccine doesn't stop the spread? I don't feel like this is new information.

They were never 100% effective (no vaccine is), but Delta has increased breakthrough cases significantly. Again, I'm not an infectious disease expert, so I try to listen to those who are.

You said "vaccines aren't enough to stop the spread right now....this is a new development since these shows were announced/sold".

no, it isn't.

Delta...a mutation that the vaccine isn't as effective against as the original strain...isn't a new development since Ohana was announced/sold?

Sure, if you want to move the goal posts, cuz you didn't mention that specifically initially.

"Move the goal posts" implies bad faith, as if you didn't know that it's Delta causing these changes, so not gonna bother to respond.

i was just going by the text of your responses, nothing more. I try not to assume or infer anything.

F Me In The Brain · August 2021

given2fly23 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

Don't call out vaccinated people who opt out of shows because they don't want to mask up.
They aren't spreading misinformation....they are not working to try and spread the virus - they are fully vaccinated.
Right to choose to stay home is a position I would think we should respect 1000%.
I won't, right now, go to a show , even one that requires vaccinations even if I do wear a mask. I'm fully vaccinated and am being very selective on what I venture into the masses to do. Right now, concerts are not high enough on my list. We all love Pearl Jam, I'm sure we all would love to see Pearl Jam. Some of the settings are not ones we choose to be in.

In the case of concerts/events and the decisions to go forward or cancel, the voices refusing to wear a mask have the same effect as anti-vaxxers. You think bands would be canceling if they had 100% cooperation from fans or a good way to enforce rules? Airlines are functioning smoothly for the most part because passengers know their options are to mask up or be removed/arrested. 100% agree on the right to stay home. If it was up to me, all concerts would be small enough to enforce rules right now. Those of us willing to follow the rules could go, behave and enjoy the show. Everyone else can stay home. But when you go full capacity knowing that fans will complain about every little thing as the situation changes on a daily basis, I don't blame big bands for not wanting to deal with it.

I kind of get what you are saying but also think I am reading it like you mean that people who have tickets have a responsibility to go if the rules change and they don't like the change.
As if their opinion on going to the concert or not based on myriad potential reasons (including not wanting to wear a mask outside when vaccinated) should be ignored to keep concerts going and fight the anti-vaxx crowd? To help the concert industry?
Doesn't make much sense to me.

I could tell you my personal situation in a PM if you like, and I'm sure you would say that you totally understand why I am choosing some opportunities to be out in the public as a fully vaccinated person who has no problem with wearing masks, and why other opportunities I am choosing to say no to.

What I read here from the two guys who shared what they did aligns with that same concept.

Putting someone who decides they don't want to go to the SHN or Ohana shows because of a change in policy, who is fully vaccinated, in the same bucket as an anti vaxxer makes no sense to me.

Not important, overall, just felt like sharing my two cents on what I was reading. I can see you made clear that you weren't looking to harsh anyone.

bbiggs · August 2021

given2fly23 said:

bbiggs said:

given2fly23 said:

bbiggs said:

given2fly23 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

Don't call out vaccinated people who opt out of shows because they don't want to mask up.
They aren't spreading misinformation....they are not working to try and spread the virus - they are fully vaccinated.
Right to choose to stay home is a position I would think we should respect 1000%.
I won't, right now, go to a show , even one that requires vaccinations even if I do wear a mask. I'm fully vaccinated and am being very selective on what I venture into the masses to do. Right now, concerts are not high enough on my list. We all love Pearl Jam, I'm sure we all would love to see Pearl Jam. Some of the settings are not ones we choose to be in.

In the case of concerts/events and the decisions to go forward or cancel, the voices refusing to wear a mask have the same effect as anti-vaxxers. You think bands would be canceling if they had 100% cooperation from fans or a good way to enforce rules? Airlines are functioning smoothly for the most part because passengers know their options are to mask up or be removed/arrested. 100% agree on the right to stay home. If it was up to me, all concerts would be small enough to enforce rules right now. Those of us willing to follow the rules could go, behave and enjoy the show. Everyone else can stay home. But when you go full capacity knowing that fans will complain about every little thing as the situation changes on a daily basis, I don't blame big bands for not wanting to deal with it.

Give me a break. There is literally a vaccine mandate (or negative test) to go to this outdoor show. You're way off base with this.

The problem is that vaccines aren't enough to stop the spread right now. Vaccinated people are getting COVID (though the hosp/death rate is super-low). This is a new development since these shows were announced/sold, so if the venue/promoter/band has to adjust the requirements, so what? No one can predict the where the virus is going and some flexibility has to be acceptable. If it isn't to someone, then they should stay home, because the situation will probably change again next week. I stand by my statement.

This will be my last comment on this. First, see Lollapalooza. Zero masks and zero issue from that mass gathering according to the experts. Second, I agree with you saying if a band/ venue/ promoter changes requirements and a ticket holder doesn't accept the changes, they should stay home. That contradicts your barrage of comments that ensued when I said I'd stay home if a mask mandate was added. It led to all sorts of BS assumptions including anti-vax, Trump, gun-toting, marrying a neighbor's dog, etc. All good though. That stuff is humorous to me and I have better things to do than argue on a rock band forum.

I'll apologize--I shouldn't have jumped on you like that. I've seen you around these boards enough to know you're not a conspiracy nut. I was surprised by your stance (for that same reason) and I was disappointed by today's NIN announcement and it worries me about Ohana. To me, a mask is no big deal. We can disagree on that as long as we agree on what you indicated above. No hard feelings, I hope.

All good. No hard feelings at all.

bbiggs · August 2021

Gern Blansten said:

bbiggs said:

given2fly23 said:

bbiggs said:

given2fly23 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

Don't call out vaccinated people who opt out of shows because they don't want to mask up.
They aren't spreading misinformation....they are not working to try and spread the virus - they are fully vaccinated.
Right to choose to stay home is a position I would think we should respect 1000%.
I won't, right now, go to a show , even one that requires vaccinations even if I do wear a mask. I'm fully vaccinated and am being very selective on what I venture into the masses to do. Right now, concerts are not high enough on my list. We all love Pearl Jam, I'm sure we all would love to see Pearl Jam. Some of the settings are not ones we choose to be in.

In the case of concerts/events and the decisions to go forward or cancel, the voices refusing to wear a mask have the same effect as anti-vaxxers. You think bands would be canceling if they had 100% cooperation from fans or a good way to enforce rules? Airlines are functioning smoothly for the most part because passengers know their options are to mask up or be removed/arrested. 100% agree on the right to stay home. If it was up to me, all concerts would be small enough to enforce rules right now. Those of us willing to follow the rules could go, behave and enjoy the show. Everyone else can stay home. But when you go full capacity knowing that fans will complain about every little thing as the situation changes on a daily basis, I don't blame big bands for not wanting to deal with it.

Give me a break. There is literally a vaccine mandate (or negative test) to go to this outdoor show. You're way off base with this.

The problem is that vaccines aren't enough to stop the spread right now. Vaccinated people are getting COVID (though the hosp/death rate is super-low). This is a new development since these shows were announced/sold, so if the venue/promoter/band has to adjust the requirements, so what? No one can predict the where the virus is going and some flexibility has to be acceptable. If it isn't to someone, then they should stay home, because the situation will probably change again next week. I stand by my statement.

This will be my last comment on this. First, see Lollapalooza. Zero masks and zero issue from that mass gathering according to the experts. Second, I agree with you saying if a band/ venue/ promoter changes requirements and a ticket holder doesn't accept the changes, they should stay home. That contradicts your barrage of comments that ensued when I said I'd stay home if a mask mandate was added. It led to all sorts of BS assumptions including anti-vax, Trump, gun-toting, marrying a neighbor's dog, etc. All good though. That stuff is humorous to me and I have better things to do than argue on a rock band forum.

but was Delta at a peak then? I think that is the issue. Although I keep hearing that they expect a decrease in cases since it has already pushed a big wave through

I honestly don't know. It was just a few weeks ago, so I thought it was close enough in time frame to the current situation, but I could be wrong.

given2fly23 · August 2021

F Me In The Brain said:

given2fly23 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

Don't call out vaccinated people who opt out of shows because they don't want to mask up.
They aren't spreading misinformation....they are not working to try and spread the virus - they are fully vaccinated.
Right to choose to stay home is a position I would think we should respect 1000%.
I won't, right now, go to a show , even one that requires vaccinations even if I do wear a mask. I'm fully vaccinated and am being very selective on what I venture into the masses to do. Right now, concerts are not high enough on my list. We all love Pearl Jam, I'm sure we all would love to see Pearl Jam. Some of the settings are not ones we choose to be in.

In the case of concerts/events and the decisions to go forward or cancel, the voices refusing to wear a mask have the same effect as anti-vaxxers. You think bands would be canceling if they had 100% cooperation from fans or a good way to enforce rules? Airlines are functioning smoothly for the most part because passengers know their options are to mask up or be removed/arrested. 100% agree on the right to stay home. If it was up to me, all concerts would be small enough to enforce rules right now. Those of us willing to follow the rules could go, behave and enjoy the show. Everyone else can stay home. But when you go full capacity knowing that fans will complain about every little thing as the situation changes on a daily basis, I don't blame big bands for not wanting to deal with it.

I kind of get what you are saying but also think I am reading it like you mean that people who have tickets have a responsibility to go if the rules change and they don't like the change.
As if their opinion on going to the concert or not based on myriad potential reasons (including not wanting to wear a mask outside when vaccinated) should be ignored to keep concerts going and fight the anti-vaxx crowd? To help the concert industry?
Doesn't make much sense to me.

Not at all what I meant, but thanks for letting me know that it read that way. The situation is changing for everyone involved on a daily basis and everyone has the right to decide which risks they are willing to take, and if they change their mind, they should be able to refund or resell their tickets. Flexibility is key in this situation for all parties involved. Personally, I get the reaction to the Killers requiring both vax and a negative test because tests are still not as reliable or available as they should be. To me (my opinion), requiring a mask is not as big a deal. Is it an inconvenience? Yes. Is it a dealbreaker for me attending an event that is important to me? Nope.

Anyways, sucky day for us NIN fans and anxious moments for us Ohana attendees. Everyone stay safe and I hope we all get some shows. Glad I traveled and attended the 5 shows I did in August.

RatherStarved · August 2021

80 posts today and not one song request. I’ll put my hand up for Society.

lmckenney24 · August 2021

RatherStarved said:

80 posts today and not one song request. I’ll put my hand up for Society.

Good choice.

PJNB · August 2021

lmckenney24 said:

RatherStarved said:

80 posts today and not one song request. I’ll put my hand up for Society.

Good choice.

Heard full band version at Fenway 16. Loved it. Enjoy solo too but full band was better.

Too early to plug Hard to Imagine again? If so lets go with Parting Ways!

curmudgeoness · August 2021

HughFreakingDillon said:

given2fly23 said:

bbiggs said:

given2fly23 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

Don't call out vaccinated people who opt out of shows because they don't want to mask up.
They aren't spreading misinformation....they are not working to try and spread the virus - they are fully vaccinated.
Right to choose to stay home is a position I would think we should respect 1000%.
I won't, right now, go to a show , even one that requires vaccinations even if I do wear a mask. I'm fully vaccinated and am being very selective on what I venture into the masses to do. Right now, concerts are not high enough on my list. We all love Pearl Jam, I'm sure we all would love to see Pearl Jam. Some of the settings are not ones we choose to be in.

In the case of concerts/events and the decisions to go forward or cancel, the voices refusing to wear a mask have the same effect as anti-vaxxers. You think bands would be canceling if they had 100% cooperation from fans or a good way to enforce rules? Airlines are functioning smoothly for the most part because passengers know their options are to mask up or be removed/arrested. 100% agree on the right to stay home. If it was up to me, all concerts would be small enough to enforce rules right now. Those of us willing to follow the rules could go, behave and enjoy the show. Everyone else can stay home. But when you go full capacity knowing that fans will complain about every little thing as the situation changes on a daily basis, I don't blame big bands for not wanting to deal with it.

Give me a break. There is literally a vaccine mandate (or negative test) to go to this outdoor show. You're way off base with this.

The problem is that vaccines aren't enough to stop the spread right now. Vaccinated people are getting COVID (though the hosp/death rate is super-low). This is a new development since these shows were announced/sold, so if the venue/promoter/band has to adjust the requirements, so what? No one can predict the where the virus is going and some flexibility has to be acceptable. If it isn't to someone, then they should stay home, because the situation will probably change again next week. I stand by my statement.

haven't we known pretty much since the vaccines came out that the vaccine doesn't stop the spread? I don't feel like this is new information.

It is new information. With the original variant, vaccinated people who were exposed to covid either didn't get sick and didn't spread, OR got a very mild case with a low viral load and thus were UNlikely to spread it to others.

Delta is different in that the viral load carried by a vaccinated person who gets infected can be something like 1000x what it was with the original virus. In other words, vaccinated people who are infected with delta (now the dominant strain in the US) are just as contagious/infectious as unvaccinated people with covid.

Ohana Festival Update

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