Viruses / Vaccines

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  • FiveBelow
    FiveBelow Posts: 1,332
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    it's also a question of access, much like voting. marginalized communities have a MUCH harder time accessing social services, not to mention many of them just don't have the time, with lower income earners often working more than one job to support
    True, but all of these variables factor into the pandemic as a whole. The common rhetoric is ignoring this and pinpointing the blame on an insignificant portion of the human population. I just don’t see it as helpful to anyone’s psyche. Especially those who can’t fight the urge to piss into the wind and ultimately let the actions of others control them.
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,879
    FiveBelow said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    it's also a question of access, much like voting. marginalized communities have a MUCH harder time accessing social services, not to mention many of them just don't have the time, with lower income earners often working more than one job to support
    True, but all of these variables factor into the pandemic as a whole. The common rhetoric is ignoring this and pinpointing the blame on an insignificant portion of the human population. I just don’t see it as helpful to anyone’s psyche. Especially those who can’t fight the urge to piss into the wind and ultimately let the actions of others control them.
    It's not insignificant in this country, where we live.  I'm not concerned about Uzbekistan's vax rate or hesitancy at the moment.  Talking about our population against the world isn't really relevant.  
  • lastexitlondon
    lastexitlondon Posts: 14,883
    The usa seems to be the only place a vaccine is political.  Work that one out


    this song is meant to be called i got shit,itshould be called i got shit tickets-hartford 06 -
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,879
    lastexitlondon said:
    The usa seems to be the only place a vaccine is political.  Work that one out
    Pretty easy math there. 
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,036
    Ledbetterman10 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Ledbetterman10 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    lastexitlondon said:
    People here are refusing  due to fears of what the vaccine  will do to you. 
    Its not political or religious here at all from what ive seen. 
    But there's a correlation here.  It's no coincidence that the hesitancy is rooted in the Republican party and that's also the party that is more religious and less educated.  It doesn't mean that ONLY Republicans, but there is a correlation.  

    By demographic (though the data is incomplete), the least vaccinated group in America are black people. So you're right that it's not ONLY Republicans, but it might not be MAINLY Republicans either, going off the assumption that there's more black Democrats than there are black Republicans. 

    "Black Americans are the least vaccinated demographic group, according to the Centers for Disease Control, which estimates that 25% of the Black population in the US is fully vaccinated. Of the US population that is fully vaccinated, only 9% are Black. However, this data is incomplete -- the CDC reports that race and ethnicity data is available for 68% of people who are fully vaccinated."

    "The difference between life and death" Community leaders boost efforts to reach unvaccinated Black Americans amid Delta spike - CNN
    Blacks make up only 14% of the population.  So while it is true that by demographic they are the least, there are more white Americans unvaxxed than black ones.  And the hesitancy is rooted in the GOP, not the D's.  https://www.politico.com/news/2021/08/11/majorities-support-vaccine-mask-mandates-republicans-503506

    I understand that there are way less black people in the country so of course there's more unvaccinated white people. But I also don't think that the 75% of black people that are unvaccinated are unvaccinated because they're being influenced by the GOP or Fox News pushing hesitancy. So why aren't they getting vaccinated? They're (for the most part) not of the party that is "more religious and less educated." The majority of registered black voters are democrats, and the democrats have been pushing the vaccine. So why aren't they getting it?

    My overall point is that it's not just white Trump-lovers that are refusing the vaccine. Yet it seems as if they're the only ones getting ridiculed and criticized for not believing in science. 
    For fucks sake because the US government conducted medical experiments on black military personnel and covered it up. Just a short 60-70 years ago. That 400 years of oppression went deep, long and continues on so many levels.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • FiveBelow
    FiveBelow Posts: 1,332
    mrussel1 said:
    FiveBelow said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    it's also a question of access, much like voting. marginalized communities have a MUCH harder time accessing social services, not to mention many of them just don't have the time, with lower income earners often working more than one job to support
    True, but all of these variables factor into the pandemic as a whole. The common rhetoric is ignoring this and pinpointing the blame on an insignificant portion of the human population. I just don’t see it as helpful to anyone’s psyche. Especially those who can’t fight the urge to piss into the wind and ultimately let the actions of others control them.
    It's not insignificant in this country, where we live.  I'm not concerned about Uzbekistan's vax rate or hesitancy at the moment.  Talking about our population against the world isn't really relevant.  
    I guess I am just not on team "America First". My world view is not limited to the borders in which I am confined. Covid isn't either, as evidenced by Delta.

  • oftenreading
    oftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    lastexitlondon said:
    The usa seems to be the only place a vaccine is political.  Work that one out
    That isn’t actually accurate. Covid and the vaccine are hugely political in Brazil, for instance, and a number of other countries. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • PJPOWER
    PJPOWER Posts: 6,499
    edited August 2021
    lastexitlondon said:
    The usa seems to be the only place a vaccine is political.  Work that one out
    So what do you feel drives the anti-vaccine crowd in your country and others?  There have been large anti-vaccine protests almost everywhere.  
    Post edited by PJPOWER on
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,450
    FiveBelow said:
    mrussel1 said:
    FiveBelow said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    it's also a question of access, much like voting. marginalized communities have a MUCH harder time accessing social services, not to mention many of them just don't have the time, with lower income earners often working more than one job to support
    True, but all of these variables factor into the pandemic as a whole. The common rhetoric is ignoring this and pinpointing the blame on an insignificant portion of the human population. I just don’t see it as helpful to anyone’s psyche. Especially those who can’t fight the urge to piss into the wind and ultimately let the actions of others control them.
    It's not insignificant in this country, where we live.  I'm not concerned about Uzbekistan's vax rate or hesitancy at the moment.  Talking about our population against the world isn't really relevant.  
    I guess I am just not on team "America First". My world view is not limited to the borders in which I am confined. Covid isn't either, as evidenced by Delta.

    I think it's perfectly natural to look at your own community before looking outwardly. this isn't comparable to "america first", I don't think. I'm more concerned about my own country in this context, however it's impossible to escape the american side of it, but I have no clue how any tiny country anywhere in the world is doing. 
    Hugh Freaking Dillon is currently out of the office, returning sometime in the fall




  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,879
    FiveBelow said:
    mrussel1 said:
    FiveBelow said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    it's also a question of access, much like voting. marginalized communities have a MUCH harder time accessing social services, not to mention many of them just don't have the time, with lower income earners often working more than one job to support
    True, but all of these variables factor into the pandemic as a whole. The common rhetoric is ignoring this and pinpointing the blame on an insignificant portion of the human population. I just don’t see it as helpful to anyone’s psyche. Especially those who can’t fight the urge to piss into the wind and ultimately let the actions of others control them.
    It's not insignificant in this country, where we live.  I'm not concerned about Uzbekistan's vax rate or hesitancy at the moment.  Talking about our population against the world isn't really relevant.  
    I guess I am just not on team "America First". My world view is not limited to the borders in which I am confined. Covid isn't either, as evidenced by Delta.

    Eye roll. We control our region.  If everyone controls their region,  it will cease to become a pandemic and move to a regional epidemic.  None of us have any influence on Uzbekistany leaders or media.  We have influence here.  So to act like Uzbek and Khazak mean the same to us here as Florida and Texas,  well that's just silly. 
  • lastexitlondon
    lastexitlondon Posts: 14,883
    edited August 2021
    PJPOWER said:
    lastexitlondon said:
    The usa seems to be the only place a vaccine is political.  Work that one out
    So what do you feel drives the anti-vaccine crowd in your country and others?  There have been large anti-vaccine protests almost everywhere.  
    Its the fear of side effects  purely . Uk anyway.  People  spreading  misinformation.  The internet  warriors. 
    Poison  and  rushed. That kind of utter shit
    Post edited by lastexitlondon on


    this song is meant to be called i got shit,itshould be called i got shit tickets-hartford 06 -
  • oftenreading
    oftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    tempo_n_groove said:
    oftenreading said:
    True religious exemptions should be vanishingly rare, since none of the major world religions are anti-vaccination. Christian Scientists (and what a misnomer that is) believe only in healing by prayer, and some small Christian evangelical churches believe only in faith healing, but that’s about it. Even religious cultural groups like the Amish aren’t anti-vaccination in their basic teachings, though some sects may go that way. The use of “religious exemption” is basically a cloak for personal beliefs, which can be swayed by a number of factors beyond religion. 
    The Hasidic population here in NY do not have religious exemptions they just choose not to do them.  They have their own schools, police and fire dept and sometimes hospitals so they don't bother with getting any vaccinations as they govern themselves and do not want to be told how to live.
    They don't really have their own police. They are extremely reluctant to go to the usual police forces, they heavily self-police due to their many cultural rules, and if they find that someone has broken one of their rules they have religious committees that can impose a type of penance, but it's not like they're out there investigating crimes. 

    But yes, vaccine mandates will have little sway in this community as there is little of the outside world's services that they want to access. They are also an interesting example of ignorance of the facts (used in a non-pejorative sense) - ultra-orthodox Jews are allowed so little access to information of the outside world that many remain unaware of most of the information about the pandemic that the rest of us take for granted. It's not surprising that they have reacted as they have.
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • FiveBelow
    FiveBelow Posts: 1,332
    mrussel1 said:
    FiveBelow said:
    mrussel1 said:
    FiveBelow said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    it's also a question of access, much like voting. marginalized communities have a MUCH harder time accessing social services, not to mention many of them just don't have the time, with lower income earners often working more than one job to support
    True, but all of these variables factor into the pandemic as a whole. The common rhetoric is ignoring this and pinpointing the blame on an insignificant portion of the human population. I just don’t see it as helpful to anyone’s psyche. Especially those who can’t fight the urge to piss into the wind and ultimately let the actions of others control them.
    It's not insignificant in this country, where we live.  I'm not concerned about Uzbekistan's vax rate or hesitancy at the moment.  Talking about our population against the world isn't really relevant.  
    I guess I am just not on team "America First". My world view is not limited to the borders in which I am confined. Covid isn't either, as evidenced by Delta.

    Eye roll. We control our region.  If everyone controls their region,  it will cease to become a pandemic and move to a regional epidemic.  None of us have any influence on Uzbekistany leaders or media.  We have influence here.  So to act like Uzbek and Khazak mean the same to us here as Florida and Texas,  well that's just silly. 
    Phew, I guess the current dominant strain and breakthrough cases stemming from another regions fight is nothing to fret. Let’s just hope the next one doesn’t lessen our current vaccine efficacy even more. Silly, I know. So back to my initial point. Do you think the message that was posted is beneficial in “controlling” our region? I mean, I guess if beating someone into submission is your thing then by all means continue. I just find it counterproductive.
  • FiveBelow
    FiveBelow Posts: 1,332
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    FiveBelow said:
    mrussel1 said:
    FiveBelow said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    it's also a question of access, much like voting. marginalized communities have a MUCH harder time accessing social services, not to mention many of them just don't have the time, with lower income earners often working more than one job to support
    True, but all of these variables factor into the pandemic as a whole. The common rhetoric is ignoring this and pinpointing the blame on an insignificant portion of the human population. I just don’t see it as helpful to anyone’s psyche. Especially those who can’t fight the urge to piss into the wind and ultimately let the actions of others control them.
    It's not insignificant in this country, where we live.  I'm not concerned about Uzbekistan's vax rate or hesitancy at the moment.  Talking about our population against the world isn't really relevant.  
    I guess I am just not on team "America First". My world view is not limited to the borders in which I am confined. Covid isn't either, as evidenced by Delta.

    I think it's perfectly natural to look at your own community before looking outwardly. this isn't comparable to "america first", I don't think. I'm more concerned about my own country in this context, however it's impossible to escape the american side of it, but I have no clue how any tiny country anywhere in the world is doing. 
    In most cases I would assume much worse. Not only is that concerning for their populations, we have seen that it can also greatly affect the rest of the world.
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,879
    FiveBelow said:
    mrussel1 said:
    FiveBelow said:
    mrussel1 said:
    FiveBelow said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    it's also a question of access, much like voting. marginalized communities have a MUCH harder time accessing social services, not to mention many of them just don't have the time, with lower income earners often working more than one job to support
    True, but all of these variables factor into the pandemic as a whole. The common rhetoric is ignoring this and pinpointing the blame on an insignificant portion of the human population. I just don’t see it as helpful to anyone’s psyche. Especially those who can’t fight the urge to piss into the wind and ultimately let the actions of others control them.
    It's not insignificant in this country, where we live.  I'm not concerned about Uzbekistan's vax rate or hesitancy at the moment.  Talking about our population against the world isn't really relevant.  
    I guess I am just not on team "America First". My world view is not limited to the borders in which I am confined. Covid isn't either, as evidenced by Delta.

    Eye roll. We control our region.  If everyone controls their region,  it will cease to become a pandemic and move to a regional epidemic.  None of us have any influence on Uzbekistany leaders or media.  We have influence here.  So to act like Uzbek and Khazak mean the same to us here as Florida and Texas,  well that's just silly. 
    Phew, I guess the current dominant strain and breakthrough cases stemming from another regions fight is nothing to fret. Let’s just hope the next one doesn’t lessen our current vaccine efficacy even more. Silly, I know. So back to my initial point. Do you think the message that was posted is beneficial in “controlling” our region? I mean, I guess if beating someone into submission is your thing then by all means continue. I just find it counterproductive.
    I honestly have no idea what point you're trying to make here. What message?
  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,345
    oftenreading said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    oftenreading said:
    True religious exemptions should be vanishingly rare, since none of the major world religions are anti-vaccination. Christian Scientists (and what a misnomer that is) believe only in healing by prayer, and some small Christian evangelical churches believe only in faith healing, but that’s about it. Even religious cultural groups like the Amish aren’t anti-vaccination in their basic teachings, though some sects may go that way. The use of “religious exemption” is basically a cloak for personal beliefs, which can be swayed by a number of factors beyond religion. 
    The Hasidic population here in NY do not have religious exemptions they just choose not to do them.  They have their own schools, police and fire dept and sometimes hospitals so they don't bother with getting any vaccinations as they govern themselves and do not want to be told how to live.
    They don't really have their own police. They are extremely reluctant to go to the usual police forces, they heavily self-police due to their many cultural rules, and if they find that someone has broken one of their rules they have religious committees that can impose a type of penance, but it's not like they're out there investigating crimes. 

    But yes, vaccine mandates will have little sway in this community as there is little of the outside world's services that they want to access. They are also an interesting example of ignorance of the facts (used in a non-pejorative sense) - ultra-orthodox Jews are allowed so little access to information of the outside world that many remain unaware of most of the information about the pandemic that the rest of us take for granted. It's not surprising that they have reacted as they have.
    Self police=Their own police.  I see them.  They put blue lights on their Toyotas and run lights around the communities.  It is something to see to believe.

    Yes they are almost completely shielded from the outside world.  They had a polio outbreak here in NYC not too long ago.  It's amazing to me to go on in life with not a care really to what is happening everywhere else.
  • curmudgeoness
    curmudgeoness Brigadoon, foodie capital Posts: 4,130
    edited August 2021
    Gavin Newsom just announced that all (California) teachers and school employees must be vaccinated or be tested weekly. I'm sure the last thing he wants to do right now is close the schools again.
    All those who seek to destroy the liberties of a democratic nation ought to know that war is the surest and shortest means to accomplish it.
  • FiveBelow
    FiveBelow Posts: 1,332
    mrussel1 said:
    FiveBelow said:
    mrussel1 said:
    FiveBelow said:
    mrussel1 said:
    FiveBelow said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    it's also a question of access, much like voting. marginalized communities have a MUCH harder time accessing social services, not to mention many of them just don't have the time, with lower income earners often working more than one job to support
    True, but all of these variables factor into the pandemic as a whole. The common rhetoric is ignoring this and pinpointing the blame on an insignificant portion of the human population. I just don’t see it as helpful to anyone’s psyche. Especially those who can’t fight the urge to piss into the wind and ultimately let the actions of others control them.
    It's not insignificant in this country, where we live.  I'm not concerned about Uzbekistan's vax rate or hesitancy at the moment.  Talking about our population against the world isn't really relevant.  
    I guess I am just not on team "America First". My world view is not limited to the borders in which I am confined. Covid isn't either, as evidenced by Delta.

    Eye roll. We control our region.  If everyone controls their region,  it will cease to become a pandemic and move to a regional epidemic.  None of us have any influence on Uzbekistany leaders or media.  We have influence here.  So to act like Uzbek and Khazak mean the same to us here as Florida and Texas,  well that's just silly. 
    Phew, I guess the current dominant strain and breakthrough cases stemming from another regions fight is nothing to fret. Let’s just hope the next one doesn’t lessen our current vaccine efficacy even more. Silly, I know. So back to my initial point. Do you think the message that was posted is beneficial in “controlling” our region? I mean, I guess if beating someone into submission is your thing then by all means continue. I just find it counterproductive.
    I honestly have no idea what point you're trying to make here. What message?
    My point being, we have proof that other regions contribute directly to our situation with absolutely no influence from the US. Our region is not responsible for the Delta variant but it is now the dominant strain. Knowing this, I choose not to focus solely on what we are doing because it is not that simple. The fuck you "message" was a social media grab from CM that I originally commented on. The rant blaming the current state of the pandemic solely on unvaccinated americans, as if the US is the only dog in the fight against covid.
  • oftenreading
    oftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    edited August 2021
    tempo_n_groove said:
    oftenreading said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    oftenreading said:
    True religious exemptions should be vanishingly rare, since none of the major world religions are anti-vaccination. Christian Scientists (and what a misnomer that is) believe only in healing by prayer, and some small Christian evangelical churches believe only in faith healing, but that’s about it. Even religious cultural groups like the Amish aren’t anti-vaccination in their basic teachings, though some sects may go that way. The use of “religious exemption” is basically a cloak for personal beliefs, which can be swayed by a number of factors beyond religion. 
    The Hasidic population here in NY do not have religious exemptions they just choose not to do them.  They have their own schools, police and fire dept and sometimes hospitals so they don't bother with getting any vaccinations as they govern themselves and do not want to be told how to live.
    They don't really have their own police. They are extremely reluctant to go to the usual police forces, they heavily self-police due to their many cultural rules, and if they find that someone has broken one of their rules they have religious committees that can impose a type of penance, but it's not like they're out there investigating crimes. 

    But yes, vaccine mandates will have little sway in this community as there is little of the outside world's services that they want to access. They are also an interesting example of ignorance of the facts (used in a non-pejorative sense) - ultra-orthodox Jews are allowed so little access to information of the outside world that many remain unaware of most of the information about the pandemic that the rest of us take for granted. It's not surprising that they have reacted as they have.
    Self police=Their own police.  I see them.  They put blue lights on their Toyotas and run lights around the communities.  It is something to see to believe.

    Yes they are almost completely shielded from the outside world.  They had a polio outbreak here in NYC not too long ago.  It's amazing to me to go on in life with not a care really to what is happening everywhere else.

    I didn't mean self-police literally, though I can see it came across that way; more like intensive community pressure to "do the right thing" and shaming if you do not.

    I can not imagine living life in a way that is so insular and uninterested in the wider world. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,450
    edited August 2021
    FiveBelow said:
    mrussel1 said:
    FiveBelow said:
    mrussel1 said:
    FiveBelow said:
    mrussel1 said:
    FiveBelow said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    it's also a question of access, much like voting. marginalized communities have a MUCH harder time accessing social services, not to mention many of them just don't have the time, with lower income earners often working more than one job to support
    True, but all of these variables factor into the pandemic as a whole. The common rhetoric is ignoring this and pinpointing the blame on an insignificant portion of the human population. I just don’t see it as helpful to anyone’s psyche. Especially those who can’t fight the urge to piss into the wind and ultimately let the actions of others control them.
    It's not insignificant in this country, where we live.  I'm not concerned about Uzbekistan's vax rate or hesitancy at the moment.  Talking about our population against the world isn't really relevant.  
    I guess I am just not on team "America First". My world view is not limited to the borders in which I am confined. Covid isn't either, as evidenced by Delta.

    Eye roll. We control our region.  If everyone controls their region,  it will cease to become a pandemic and move to a regional epidemic.  None of us have any influence on Uzbekistany leaders or media.  We have influence here.  So to act like Uzbek and Khazak mean the same to us here as Florida and Texas,  well that's just silly. 
    Phew, I guess the current dominant strain and breakthrough cases stemming from another regions fight is nothing to fret. Let’s just hope the next one doesn’t lessen our current vaccine efficacy even more. Silly, I know. So back to my initial point. Do you think the message that was posted is beneficial in “controlling” our region? I mean, I guess if beating someone into submission is your thing then by all means continue. I just find it counterproductive.
    I honestly have no idea what point you're trying to make here. What message?
    My point being, we have proof that other regions contribute directly to our situation with absolutely no influence from the US. Our region is not responsible for the Delta variant but it is now the dominant strain. Knowing this, I choose not to focus solely on what we are doing because it is not that simple. The fuck you "message" was a social media grab from CM that I originally commented on. The rant blaming the current state of the pandemic solely on unvaccinated americans, as if the US is the only dog in the fight against covid.
    edit: to put it simply, he's blaming unvaccinated americans for the current state of the pandemic in america, which, in my folks minds, is true. 
    Post edited by HughFreakingDillon on
    Hugh Freaking Dillon is currently out of the office, returning sometime in the fall




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