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  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,879
    RunIntoTheRain said:
    19,000+ cases in Texas today. 497 unoccupied ICU beds. Hospitalizations have gone up so fast. July 4th there were 1647 Covid patients in the hospitals. 1 month later it’s 7685. Really can’t look at that data and think nothing of it. 
    Too much testing,  obviously. 
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,661
    edited August 2021
    JB16057 said:
    Why is no one allowed to ask questions or be skeptical about any of this? Now we're supposed to trust the government and the vaccine coming from big pharma? Did anyone see that the J&J just settled a billions of dollar settlement for the part they played in the opioid crisis? And then we're supposed to allow them to inject us with their vaccine and not ask questions?

    I've lost multiple people to the opioid crisis and I sure wish they would've started asking questions about why these pills were literally being forced down their throats.

    Both big pharma and the government have given us plenty of examples on why we should ask questions instead of just going along with what they say.

    I think questioning is a great thing.  Healthy skepticism is always good in my book. 
    I got both #1 and #2 Moderna vaccinations.  The day after #2 was one of the worst days of my life.  Excruciating pain and discomfort!  But I am 100% sure I would do it again if I went back in time a few months ago.  Nevertheless, my confidence in that vaccination as far as how well it will protect me and how safe it is in the long run is a far smaller percentage.  Maybe 50/50 at best. 
    It's only when I think about how many lives have been lost and what people have gone through who have contracted the disease that I sigh, shrug my shoulders and think, OK, I did what I thought was best, and good luck to us all.
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,344
    approval by labor day perhaps?

    F.D.A. Aims to Give Final Approval to Pfizer Vaccine by Early Next Month https://nyti.ms/3xijX8N


    F.D.A. Aims to Give Final Approval to Pfizer Vaccine by Early Next Month

    The Food and Drug Administration’s move is expected to kick off more vaccination mandates for hospital workers, college students and federal troops.

    Image
    Workers at a mass vaccination site preparing doses of Pfizers Covid-19 vaccine in Newark in June Full approval of the vaccine could help increase inoculation rates
    Workers at a mass vaccination site preparing doses of Pfizer’s Covid-19 vaccine in Newark in June. Full approval of the vaccine could help increase inoculation rates.Credit...Bryan Anselm for The New York Times
    Aug. 3, 2021

    WASHINGTON — With a new surge of coronavirus infections ripping through much of the United States, the Food and Drug Administration has accelerated its timetable to fully approve Pfizer-BioNTech’s coronavirus vaccine, aiming to complete the process by the start of next month, people familiar with the effort said.

    President Biden said last week that he expected a fully approved vaccine in early fall. But the F.D.A.’s unofficial deadline is Labor Day or sooner, according to multiple people familiar with the plan. The agency said in a statement that its leaders recognized that approval might inspire more public confidence and had “taken an all-hands-on-deck approach” to the work.

    Giving final approval to the Pfizer vaccine — rather than relying on the emergency authorization granted late last year by the F.D.A. — could help increase inoculation rates at a moment when the highly transmissible Delta variant of the virus is sharply driving up the number of new cases.

    A number of universities and hospitals, the Defense Department and at least one major city, San Francisco, are expected to mandate inoculation once a vaccine is fully approved. Final approval could also help mute misinformation about the safety of vaccines and clarify legal issues about mandates.

    Federal regulators have been under growing public pressure to fully approve Pfizer’s vaccine ever since the company filed its application on May 7. “I just have not sensed a sense of urgency from the F.D.A. on full approval,” Dr. Ashish K. Jha, the dean of the Brown University School of Public Health, said in an interview on Tuesday. “And I find it baffling, given where we are as a country in terms of infections, hospitalizations and deaths.”

    Although 192 million Americans — 58 percent of the total population and 70 percent of the nation’s adults — have received at least one vaccine shot, many remain vulnerable to the ultracontagious, dominant Delta variant. The country is averaging nearly 86,000 new infections a day, an increase of 142 percent in just two weeks, according to a New York Times database.

    Recent polls by the Kaiser Family Foundation, which has been tracking public attitudes during the pandemic, have found that three of every 10 unvaccinated people said that they would be more likely to get a shot with a fully approved vaccine. But the pollsters warned that many respondents did not understand the regulatory process and might have been looking for a “proxy” justification not to get a shot.

    Moderna, the second most widely used vaccine in the United States, filed for final approval of its vaccine on June 1. But the company is still submitting data and has not said when it will finish. Johnson & Johnson, the third vaccine authorized for emergency use, has not yet applied but plans to do so later this year.

    Full approval of the Pfizer vaccine will kick off a patchwork of vaccination mandates across the country. Like most other employees of federal agencies, civilians working for the Defense Department must be vaccinated or face regular testing. But the military has held off on ordering shots for 1.3 million active-duty service members until the F.D.A. acts.

    The City of San Francisco has said its roughly 44,500 employees must be fully vaccinated within 10 weeks of F.D.A. approval. The State University of New York, with roughly 400,000 students, is on a parallel track.

    A number of health care systems have issued similar mandates to employees, including Beaumont Health, the largest health provider in Michigan, with 33,000 employees, and Mass General Brigham in Massachusetts, with about 80,000 workers.

    Full approval typically requires the F.D.A. to review hundreds of thousands of pages of documents — roughly 10 times the data required to authorize a vaccine on an emergency basis. The agency can usually complete a priority review within six to eight months and was already working on an expedited timetable for the Pfizer vaccine. The F.D.A.’s decision to speed up was reported last week by Stat News.

    In a guest essay in The Times last month, Dr. Peter Marks, the agency’s top vaccine regulator, wrote that undue haste “would undermine the F.D.A.’s statutory responsibilities, affect public trust in the agency and do little to help combat vaccine hesitancy.”

    The regulators want to see real-world data on how the vaccine has been working since they authorized it for emergency use in December. That means verifying the company’s data on vaccine efficacy and immune responses, reviewing how efficacy or immunity might decline over time, examining new infections in participants in continuing clinical trials, reviewing adverse reactions to vaccinations and inspecting manufacturing plants.

    At the same time, senior health officials at the F.D.A. and other agencies are grappling with whether at least some people who are already vaccinated need booster shots. Several officials are arguing that boosters will be widely needed before long, while others contend that the scientific basis for them remains far from settled.

    Two people familiar with the deliberations, speaking on the condition of anonymity, said that if booster shots are needed, the administration wants a single strategy for all three vaccines currently authorized for emergency use.

    Different recommendations on boosters for different vaccines, they said, could confuse the public. Fully approving a vaccine and then authorizing a booster for it soon after might also offer conflicting messages about its effectiveness.

    Understand the State of Vaccine Mandates in the U.S.

    While research is continuing, senior administration officials increasingly believe that at the least, vulnerable populations like those with compromised immune systems and older people will need them, according to people familiar with their thinking. But when to administer them, which vaccine to use and who should get shots are all still being discussed.

    In a study posted online last week, Pfizer and BioNTech scientists reported that the effectiveness of Pfizer’s vaccine against symptomatic disease fell from about 96 percent to about 84 percent four to six months after the second shot, but continued to offer robust protection against hospitalization and severe disease.

    Administration officials said Moderna and Johnson & Johnson needed to present data as well and Moderna had been asked to do so quickly. Officials have said other studies will also influence their decision-making, including data that the government is collecting on the rate of breakthrough infections among tens of thousands of people, including health care workers.

    Pfizer is expected to submit an application for a booster shot to the F.D.A. this month. While the F.D.A. could authorize such shots, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention would need to recommend them after a meeting of its outside committee of experts.

    A decision to fully approve Pfizer’s vaccine will give doctors more latitude to prescribe additional shots at least for certain Americans, including those with weakened immune systems. The C.D.C. had been exploring possible special programs for that group, but administration officials said it became clear that by the time any such initiative got underway, the Pfizer vaccine would already be fully approved and doctors could prescribe a third shot.

    Roughly 3 percent of Americans — or about 10 million people, by some estimates — have compromised immune systems as a result of cancer, organ transplants or other medical conditions, according to the C.D.C. While studies indicate that the vaccines work well for some of them, others do not produce the immune response that would protect them from the virus.

    continues.. 

    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,345
    Kat said:
    1. This thread is about viruses and vaccines. 
    2. We have an Ignore feature.
    3. Do NOT argue and bicker at each other in these forums; it could cause a loss of posting privileges, some permanent. We can’t keep saying that without consequence to visitors who won’t listen to that guidance. See the Posting Guidelines. 

    The thread will be reopened after some posts are removed.

    I prefer to call it a heated discussion.
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,344
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Kat said:
    1. This thread is about viruses and vaccines. 
    2. We have an Ignore feature.
    3. Do NOT argue and bicker at each other in these forums; it could cause a loss of posting privileges, some permanent. We can’t keep saying that without consequence to visitors who won’t listen to that guidance. See the Posting Guidelines. 

    The thread will be reopened after some posts are removed.

    I prefer to call it a heated discussion.

    call it as you like, their opinion is the one that matters
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • CM189191
    CM189191 Posts: 6,927
    mickeyrat said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Kat said:
    1. This thread is about viruses and vaccines. 
    2. We have an Ignore feature.
    3. Do NOT argue and bicker at each other in these forums; it could cause a loss of posting privileges, some permanent. We can’t keep saying that without consequence to visitors who won’t listen to that guidance. See the Posting Guidelines. 

    The thread will be reopened after some posts are removed.

    I prefer to call it a heated discussion.

    call it as you like, their opinion is the one that matters
    ...still need more than 3 ignores....
  • josevolution
    josevolution Posts: 31,557
    gvn2fly1421 said:
    CM189191 said:
    gvn2fly1421 said:
    Ledbetterman10 said:
    Weston1283 said:

    Yep....and this is why I got the vaccine without hesitation. I knew it was inevitable that you'd need one to enter something like this. Otherwise, I may not have gotten the vaccine yet. I mean, it doesn't prevent you from spreading it, which was my main COVID concern pre-vaccine (that I'd possibly infect my 73-year-old father or 90-year-old grandmother). It's not FDA-approved like every other vaccine I've ever gotten. I understand the hesitation or even flat-out refusal some people have about it. But I want to see Pearl Jam. And because of that, I was fully vaccinated by February 2021. For a while, I at least took solace in knowing that if I caught the virus, having been vaccinated, I'd be fine. But my friend who is vaccinated caught COVID last week and had to go to the ER. So who the hell knows...
    I realize most people here will think I am joking or trolling, but the fact of the matter is I am feeling this same way.  My wife's work is talking about mandating it and frankly I am afraid by the time we board a plane this Christmas that I will need to show proof.

    When talking with my wife about it, I suggest the J&J shot.  One shot.  Not mRNA.  Seems to be the best route for us.  Obviously, we will wait as long as we possibly can before doing anything, but what is the consensus of the board on which one to get?

    Also, one question I have had is all of these places are showing proof of being "fully" vaccinated.  What exactly does that mean?  Two years from now if two additional boosters are required, does that make it "fully"?  If so, when will this cycle stop?

    Never.  The cycle never stops.

    Vaccine have been required for years.  Enforcement will become more efficient.

    Deal with it.  
    And you are ok with this?  That's what I do not understand with the majority of the people here.  All of you are vaccinated yet this seems to be in a never ending cycle of power and control by your government.  And that seems to be fine.  Why?  The message has changed more in the past year than I change my underwear.  Why are y'all not sick of it?  
    Because all that you fear has not affected my life one bit you act like your life has been completely changed , I’m an immigrant arrived here in 71 we had to have multiple vaccines in prefer to secure visas guess what 45 years later I’m still ok! At work I get the flu shot every year for the last 27 years! Guess what I’m still good not sure what your afraid of but your wasting precious time by waiting 
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • CM189191
    CM189191 Posts: 6,927

  • benjs
    benjs Toronto, ON Posts: 9,361
    gvn2fly1421 said:
    CM189191 said:
    gvn2fly1421 said:
    Ledbetterman10 said:
    Weston1283 said:

    Yep....and this is why I got the vaccine without hesitation. I knew it was inevitable that you'd need one to enter something like this. Otherwise, I may not have gotten the vaccine yet. I mean, it doesn't prevent you from spreading it, which was my main COVID concern pre-vaccine (that I'd possibly infect my 73-year-old father or 90-year-old grandmother). It's not FDA-approved like every other vaccine I've ever gotten. I understand the hesitation or even flat-out refusal some people have about it. But I want to see Pearl Jam. And because of that, I was fully vaccinated by February 2021. For a while, I at least took solace in knowing that if I caught the virus, having been vaccinated, I'd be fine. But my friend who is vaccinated caught COVID last week and had to go to the ER. So who the hell knows...
    I realize most people here will think I am joking or trolling, but the fact of the matter is I am feeling this same way.  My wife's work is talking about mandating it and frankly I am afraid by the time we board a plane this Christmas that I will need to show proof.

    When talking with my wife about it, I suggest the J&J shot.  One shot.  Not mRNA.  Seems to be the best route for us.  Obviously, we will wait as long as we possibly can before doing anything, but what is the consensus of the board on which one to get?

    Also, one question I have had is all of these places are showing proof of being "fully" vaccinated.  What exactly does that mean?  Two years from now if two additional boosters are required, does that make it "fully"?  If so, when will this cycle stop?

    Never.  The cycle never stops.

    Vaccine have been required for years.  Enforcement will become more efficient.

    Deal with it.  
    And you are ok with this?  That's what I do not understand with the majority of the people here.  All of you are vaccinated yet this seems to be in a never ending cycle of power and control by your government.  And that seems to be fine.  Why?  The message has changed more in the past year than I change my underwear.  Why are y'all not sick of it?  
    Wear a mask, keep respectful social distance given the global pandemic, get the vaccine to minimize your risk to others and yourself, and you have done your job as a decent, caring, functional member of society. If this is too great of an inconvenience for you, I feel sorry for the members of your community (friends and family alike). 

    As for the message changing - when I learn new things, I reflect on the relevance of my message, and modify as needed. Don't you?
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,345
    mickeyrat said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Kat said:
    1. This thread is about viruses and vaccines. 
    2. We have an Ignore feature.
    3. Do NOT argue and bicker at each other in these forums; it could cause a loss of posting privileges, some permanent. We can’t keep saying that without consequence to visitors who won’t listen to that guidance. See the Posting Guidelines. 

    The thread will be reopened after some posts are removed.

    I prefer to call it a heated discussion.

    call it as you like, their opinion is the one that matters
    We are all guilty of it from time to time you suck up, lol. :)
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,344
    tempo_n_groove said:
    mickeyrat said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Kat said:
    1. This thread is about viruses and vaccines. 
    2. We have an Ignore feature.
    3. Do NOT argue and bicker at each other in these forums; it could cause a loss of posting privileges, some permanent. We can’t keep saying that without consequence to visitors who won’t listen to that guidance. See the Posting Guidelines. 

    The thread will be reopened after some posts are removed.

    I prefer to call it a heated discussion.

    call it as you like, their opinion is the one that matters
    We are all guilty of it from time to time you suck up, lol. :)

    been spoken to often enough the past 2 years.

    hate seeing that pm from them..... sometimes they throw a curve ball and offer good perspective independent of my behavior.....
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • benjs
    benjs Toronto, ON Posts: 9,361
    CM189191 said:

    I love this. 
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,031
    "I dO mY oWn ReSeArCh!!"

    -moron who does not know how to determine legitimate research and news sources from editorials and propaganda.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,031
    at this point i think we need to just start shaming the antivaxxers. keep them out of places where they can spread to other people who are masking and following recommendations.

    you don't want to get a vaccine? fine. do not go to that restaurant. do not go to that concert. we have done what has been asked of us. we have gotten the vaccine and still wear masks and still wash hands and take precautions. i am tired of doing everything that has been asked of me and still having to fear going to places because of people who refuse to do the bare minimum. 

    i believe it is time for rewards and consequences. we should have been on the other side of this thing months ago. the non vaccinated are fucking up my business and costing me money and i am sick of it. 
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • Parksy
    Parksy Posts: 1,849
    benjs said:
    CM189191 said:

    I love this. 

    Doug Ford's daughter posted this anti-vax rant on social media the other day... it's getting buzz around here. (For those unaware, Doug Ford is Ontario's Premier.. which is like a state Governor for you Americans) 

    In the video she starts questioning a pamphlet that was sent out by the federal government saying the vaccines are safe. And when she reads to her audience that part she says "We better check that one" in reference to the pamphlet saying that the vaccines are safe and will not give you Covid. 

    It's my understanding that some folks are skeptical and have these questions... someone posted earlier "Why can't we ask questions?"

    To those folks and to Ford's daughter.. who to no surprise had no avenue to go down here... in terms of "Checking" who do you go to for said checking?  It has been checked.  By experts. Lots of them. It's not just the big bad government saying this. In the face of this information... this factual information... why is there so much push back? 

    I have no idea why... but it honestly seems that some people actually seek out false information as if the factual and real information is somehow not good enough. Kind of mind boggling.  At what point does understandable skepticism become irrational paranoia?
    Toronto 2000
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    Boston I&II 2004
    Kitchener, Hamilton, London, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto 2005
    Toronto I&II, Las Vegas 2006
    Chicago Lollapalooza 2007
    Toronto, Seattle I&II, Vancouver, Philly I,II,III,IV 2009
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  • nicknyr15
    nicknyr15 Posts: 9,213
    gimmesometruth27 said:
    at this point i think we need to just start shaming the antivaxxers. keep them out of places where they can spread to other people who are masking and following recommendations.

    you don't want to get a vaccine? fine. do not go to that restaurant. do not go to that concert. we have done what has been asked of us. we have gotten the vaccine and still wear masks and still wash hands and take precautions. i am tired of doing everything that has been asked of me and still having to fear going to places because of people who refuse to do the bare minimum. 

    i believe it is time for rewards and consequences. we should have been on the other side of this thing months ago. the non vaccinated are fucking up my business and costing me money and i am sick of it. 
    Shaming won’t work. Ever. I thinks it’s time for everyone to mind their own business and move on. I’m sick of hearing from both vaccinated and non vaccinated people.  I’m not directing this at you or anyone in particular at all. It’s just tiring. 
  • Parksy
    Parksy Posts: 1,849
    nicknyr15 said:
    gimmesometruth27 said:
    at this point i think we need to just start shaming the antivaxxers. keep them out of places where they can spread to other people who are masking and following recommendations.

    you don't want to get a vaccine? fine. do not go to that restaurant. do not go to that concert. we have done what has been asked of us. we have gotten the vaccine and still wear masks and still wash hands and take precautions. i am tired of doing everything that has been asked of me and still having to fear going to places because of people who refuse to do the bare minimum. 

    i believe it is time for rewards and consequences. we should have been on the other side of this thing months ago. the non vaccinated are fucking up my business and costing me money and i am sick of it. 
    Shaming won’t work. Ever. I thinks it’s time for everyone to mind their own business and move on. I’m sick of hearing from both vaccinated and non vaccinated people.  I’m not directing this at you or anyone in particular at all. It’s just tiring. 
    A lot of folks have zero shame. I don't know how many of these people exist... but since Trump-ism I often see a lot of folks who consider themselves "Proud Deplorables."   Such an odd thing to be proud of. 

    Like how many people went to see Denis Leary in 1992 and cried tears of joy after he recited "Asshole" and then literally got in their cars and drove ultra slow in the ultra fast lanes? 
    Toronto 2000
    Buffalo, Phoenix, Toronto 2003
    Boston I&II 2004
    Kitchener, Hamilton, London, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto 2005
    Toronto I&II, Las Vegas 2006
    Chicago Lollapalooza 2007
    Toronto, Seattle I&II, Vancouver, Philly I,II,III,IV 2009
    Cleveland, Buffalo 2010
    Toronto I&II 2011
    Buffalo 2013
    Toronto I&II 2016
    10C: 220xxx
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,879
    nicknyr15 said:
    gimmesometruth27 said:
    at this point i think we need to just start shaming the antivaxxers. keep them out of places where they can spread to other people who are masking and following recommendations.

    you don't want to get a vaccine? fine. do not go to that restaurant. do not go to that concert. we have done what has been asked of us. we have gotten the vaccine and still wear masks and still wash hands and take precautions. i am tired of doing everything that has been asked of me and still having to fear going to places because of people who refuse to do the bare minimum. 

    i believe it is time for rewards and consequences. we should have been on the other side of this thing months ago. the non vaccinated are fucking up my business and costing me money and i am sick of it. 
    Shaming won’t work. Ever. I thinks it’s time for everyone to mind their own business and move on. I’m sick of hearing from both vaccinated and non vaccinated people.  I’m not directing this at you or anyone in particular at all. It’s just tiring. 
    How does a society move on whilst a pandemic rages, ICUs are full, etc.  It's not like we can ignore it.  We have the tools to reduce this issue dramatically, but there's a whole segment of society that reflexively does the opposite of what the gov't recommends.  It can't be ignored.  I'm sitting at home working, for the 19th straight month now.  We reopened the office, and now closed it again.  There is no ignoring. 
  • CM189191
    CM189191 Posts: 6,927
    more stick, less carrot
  • nicknyr15
    nicknyr15 Posts: 9,213
    mrussel1 said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    gimmesometruth27 said:
    at this point i think we need to just start shaming the antivaxxers. keep them out of places where they can spread to other people who are masking and following recommendations.

    you don't want to get a vaccine? fine. do not go to that restaurant. do not go to that concert. we have done what has been asked of us. we have gotten the vaccine and still wear masks and still wash hands and take precautions. i am tired of doing everything that has been asked of me and still having to fear going to places because of people who refuse to do the bare minimum. 

    i believe it is time for rewards and consequences. we should have been on the other side of this thing months ago. the non vaccinated are fucking up my business and costing me money and i am sick of it. 
    Shaming won’t work. Ever. I thinks it’s time for everyone to mind their own business and move on. I’m sick of hearing from both vaccinated and non vaccinated people.  I’m not directing this at you or anyone in particular at all. It’s just tiring. 
    How does a society move on whilst a pandemic rages, ICUs are full, etc.  It's not like we can ignore it.  We have the tools to reduce this issue dramatically, but there's a whole segment of society that reflexively does the opposite of what the gov't recommends.  It can't be ignored.  I'm sitting at home working, for the 19th straight month now.  We reopened the office, and now closed it again.  There is no ignoring. 
    We’re at a stand still. Nothing will change imo. How many of the non vaccinated will flip at this point? My guess is not nearly enough. I’m just sick of hearing from both sides. It’s boring , redundant and embarrassing. These boards are of evidence of this. 
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