Viruses / Vaccines
Comments
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I feel you're getting cause and effect mixed up in the "safe and effective" narrative. Fringe and nonsensical thoughts like microchipping vaccines, the entire CoVID virus being a labelled a Democrat hoax, the manufactured fight between freedom and health, and a POTUS who amplified these ideas, created an environment that demanded the narrative be spoken loudly in order to be heard.gvn2fly1421 said:
For me, obviously one of the vaccine hesitant, I am arguing that there is a risk for me either way, catching the virus or getting the vaccine. Now, I feel both of those risks would be small to me, considering I am a relatively healthy under 40 male. I have chosen to forgo the vaccine until we have some real, long term data showing me that the vaccine is truly "safe and effective".mrussel1 said:
Okay so you're arguing that COVID isn't dangerous, and the path to that argument is spreading other misinformation. Do I have that right?gvn2fly1421 said:
And you see no problem with how covid deaths were counted, correct? 30-60 days after a positive test if you passed away it was counted as a covid death. You see no issue with that, yet would like to label the links above as misinformation? I posted numerous links of gunshot victims, motorcycle crashes, etc. all counted as covid deaths, yet you are ok with that because it fits the narrative your party would like it to fit.mrussel1 said:
This is the classic correlation, not causation situation. From what is here, you can not declare that the cause of death within 28 days was the vaccine. People die all the time, every day. Scotland's vax rate is over 50%. So comparing deaths of vaccinated people to COVID 19 deaths (which this paper did), is the very definition of misinformation. It's misleading, unclear and leads people to draw unsubstantiated conclusions.gvn2fly1421 said:https://dailyexpose.co.uk/2021/07/18/5522-people-have-died-within-28-days-of-having-a-covid-19-vaccine-in-scotland-according-to-public-health-scotland/5,522 people have died within 28 days of having a Covid-19 Vaccine in Scotland according to Public Health Scotland
According to the spreadsheet provided by Public Health Scotland; which includes the quantity of deaths by type of vaccine and the date they occurred, 1,877 deaths have been due to the Pfizer mRNA jab, 3,643 deaths have been due to the AstraZeneca viral vector jab, and 2 deaths have been due to the Moderna mRNA jab.
This equates to an average of 920 deaths occurring every month due to the Covid-19 vaccines in Scotland alone. Outnumbering the average number of people who have died of Covid-19 in Scotland by 866 per month.
Also, closer to home... The number was 6,000 last week.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html
- Reports of death after COVID-19 vaccination are rare. More than 338 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through July 19, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 12,313 reports of death (0.0036%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS, even if it’s unclear whether the vaccine was the cause. Reports of adverse events to VAERS following vaccination, including deaths, do not necessarily mean that a vaccine caused a health problem. A review of available clinical information, including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records, has not established a causal link to COVID-19 vaccines. However, recent reports indicate a plausible causal relationship between the J&J/Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine and TTS, a rare and serious adverse event—blood clots with low platelets—which has caused deaths.
Were I the moderator, I would take down this post or at least mark it as misinformation. @gvn2fly1421 - this is a serious question. Do you critically think about what you post before you post it, or are you just grabbing links? How could you think this isn't misleading?
Imagine with me something so "safe and effective" that we have to be told over and over again how safe and effective it is. The safety is obviously up in the air with all the side effects and possible death related to it, and the effectiveness is questionable as well seeing as how all of these people are catching the virus and still spreading it and still having their lives disrupted.
And because I have been here numerous times on this board, I know what comes next... But the vaccine will reduce the symptoms of covid. Right, the same virus that most people do not even know they have. Those symptoms. Again, I think most on this board think if you get covid you are either going to the hospital for an extended trip or going to die, both of which are so low odds of happening, let's say the same chance of having something bad happen when taking the vaccine, that I personally would rather take my chance with the virus.
I honestly do not see why my stance is so controversial to the point of being called names. And also, imagine wanting to be the keeper of what data/information gets published and what doesn't... Yikes, now that is scary...'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 10 -
You make a good point about how the article assumes no changes (due to future variants). I wonder though, when vaccines are available to 6-9, does adding my child to the % of vaccinated help herd, if this is only achieved in Canada and not the states or poorer countries?Zod said:tish said:^^ Their experts said the low level of illness not worth risk of myocarditis-periocarditis unless immunocompromised.
30 UK children died to date.
Edit: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/jcvi-issues-advice-on-covid-19-vaccination-of-children-and-young-people
tish said:^^ Their experts said the low level of illness not worth risk of myocarditis-periocarditis unless immunocompromised.
30 UK children died to date.
Edit: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/jcvi-issues-advice-on-covid-19-vaccination-of-children-and-young-peopleI suppose the challenge is that getting to herd immunity is almost impossible if kids aren't vaccinated. Here in Canada we seem to be topping out at 80% for people over the age of 12.. but for the whole population I think that's less than 70% so not enough for herd immunity, which does mean the virus would keep circulating around the unvaccinated, probably mutate and increases the odds of a vaccine resistant strain?It's a pretty tough thing. The argument in that article assumes nothing changes.. but it there are risks in not try to stamp out the virus as much as you can?
Is this a better choice than leaving that vaccine for someone more at-risk elsewhere in the world?
I was swimming in the Great Barrier Reef
Animals were hiding behind the Coral
Except for little Turtle
I could swear he's trying to talk to me
Gurgle Gurgle0 -
gvn2fly1421 said:
I thought my sarcasm meter was off the charts with posts like...cincybearcat said:
Forgo the vaccine you say? In the coronavirus thread you got closed, you stated:gvn2fly1421 said:
For me, obviously one of the vaccine hesitant, I am arguing that there is a risk for me either way, catching the virus or getting the vaccine. Now, I feel both of those risks would be small to me, considering I am a relatively healthy under 40 male. I have chosen to forgo the vaccine until we have some real, long term data showing me that the vaccine is truly "safe and effective".mrussel1 said:
Okay so you're arguing that COVID isn't dangerous, and the path to that argument is spreading other misinformation. Do I have that right?gvn2fly1421 said:
And you see no problem with how covid deaths were counted, correct? 30-60 days after a positive test if you passed away it was counted as a covid death. You see no issue with that, yet would like to label the links above as misinformation? I posted numerous links of gunshot victims, motorcycle crashes, etc. all counted as covid deaths, yet you are ok with that because it fits the narrative your party would like it to fit.mrussel1 said:
This is the classic correlation, not causation situation. From what is here, you can not declare that the cause of death within 28 days was the vaccine. People die all the time, every day. Scotland's vax rate is over 50%. So comparing deaths of vaccinated people to COVID 19 deaths (which this paper did), is the very definition of misinformation. It's misleading, unclear and leads people to draw unsubstantiated conclusions.gvn2fly1421 said:https://dailyexpose.co.uk/2021/07/18/5522-people-have-died-within-28-days-of-having-a-covid-19-vaccine-in-scotland-according-to-public-health-scotland/5,522 people have died within 28 days of having a Covid-19 Vaccine in Scotland according to Public Health Scotland
According to the spreadsheet provided by Public Health Scotland; which includes the quantity of deaths by type of vaccine and the date they occurred, 1,877 deaths have been due to the Pfizer mRNA jab, 3,643 deaths have been due to the AstraZeneca viral vector jab, and 2 deaths have been due to the Moderna mRNA jab.
This equates to an average of 920 deaths occurring every month due to the Covid-19 vaccines in Scotland alone. Outnumbering the average number of people who have died of Covid-19 in Scotland by 866 per month.
Also, closer to home... The number was 6,000 last week.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html
- Reports of death after COVID-19 vaccination are rare. More than 338 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through July 19, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 12,313 reports of death (0.0036%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS, even if it’s unclear whether the vaccine was the cause. Reports of adverse events to VAERS following vaccination, including deaths, do not necessarily mean that a vaccine caused a health problem. A review of available clinical information, including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records, has not established a causal link to COVID-19 vaccines. However, recent reports indicate a plausible causal relationship between the J&J/Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine and TTS, a rare and serious adverse event—blood clots with low platelets—which has caused deaths.
Were I the moderator, I would take down this post or at least mark it as misinformation. @gvn2fly1421 - this is a serious question. Do you critically think about what you post before you post it, or are you just grabbing links? How could you think this isn't misleading?
Imagine with me something so "safe and effective" that we have to be told over and over again how safe and effective it is. The safety is obviously up in the air with all the side effects and possible death related to it, and the effectiveness is questionable as well seeing as how all of these people are catching the virus and still spreading it and still having their lives disrupted.
And because I have been here numerous times on this board, I know what comes next... But the vaccine will reduce the symptoms of covid. Right, the same virus that most people do not even know they have. Those symptoms. Again, I think most on this board think if you get covid you are either going to the hospital for an extended trip or going to die, both of which are so low odds of happening, let's say the same chance of having something bad happen when taking the vaccine, that I personally would rather take my chance with the virus.
I honestly do not see why my stance is so controversial to the point of being called names. And also, imagine wanting to be the keeper of what data/information gets published and what doesn't... Yikes, now that is scary...
" Like I said, I am fully vaccinated now and a lot of it is your analysis. So many thanks!"
Or am I reading one of these posts wrong? Cause you can't be vaccinated and have "chosen to forgo the vaccine"
"BTW, for those wondering, I am fully vaccinated now. I would show you my card but I only posted it to my Facebook. Took one shot of Pfizer and one Moderna. Ready for the Pfizer booster in 4-6 months and may get the J&J in a few weeks for extra protection!"
or...
"To help spur a vaccine drive for my area, very redneck-y if you catch my drift, I am going to do several raffles. Guns, booze, American flags, truck nuts, the works. I will report back in several weeks and let y'all know how I do. Just trying to spread the word on the power of the vaccine. I really didn't even experience any side effects, just couldn't use my right arm for three days, which was really weird. You know like when you get dental work and they numb your mouth and your lips feel like they are droopy. That's what my right arm felt like. The weird part was I got the jab in the left arm. Oh well, I am rambling now. "
...but apparently it was not clear enough. BTW, how is that 401k looking? Probably not much different than two days ago when you blamed the "Unvaxxed-holes" or was it "Antivax-holes" for your retirement savings being depleted.
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mrussell and poncier, thank you!
The thing with the information I post though, is that is how I form my opinion. I am getting blasted over this Scotland data, which is literally linked to the Public Health site and data in the article. The way I understand the issue you have mrussell is how that data is being interpreted, in that they are counting vaccine deaths as any death within 28 days of the vaccine being administered. I am trying to say that is how covid deaths have been counted this whole time so why not count the vaccine deaths the same?
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For me, and I know others will quickly correct me, I feel like this data is being.... "hidden" for lack of a better word. No, I am not going full conspiracy (and I have never once mentioned a Mircochip, EVER!) but how come we are not getting more of these stories. They are out there, but you have to look. The only stories I get on my local news and I kind of alluded to it earlier, are how "safe and effective" it is. I feel like the media is very one sided on the issue of the safety of the vaccine.Ledbetterman10 said:A co-worker of mine says she knows three fully-vaccinated people that caught COVID and were hospitalized. I wonder if that's the Delta Variant at work. Is there any data out there suggesting that vaccinated people being hospitalized is due to the variant?
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I don't believe that any death occurring within 60 days of a positive test is counted as COVID. Where are you sourcing that information? If COVID were not actually connected to the death, we would not have seen a 15.9% age adjusted increase in mortality in 2020 compared to 2019. If your hypothesis is correct, the mortality rate would not have increased at all.gvn2fly1421 said:mrussell and poncier, thank you!
The thing with the information I post though, is that is how I form my opinion. I am getting blasted over this Scotland data, which is literally linked to the Public Health site and data in the article. The way I understand the issue you have mrussell is how that data is being interpreted, in that they are counting vaccine deaths as any death within 28 days of the vaccine being administered. I am trying to say that is how covid deaths have been counted this whole time so why not count the vaccine deaths the same?0 -
For the record, and please send the fact-checkers, I have never mentioned a microchip. That is completely stupid. We agree.benjs said:
I feel you're getting cause and effect mixed up in the "safe and effective" narrative. Fringe and nonsensical thoughts like microchipping vaccines, the entire CoVID virus being a labelled a Democrat hoax, the manufactured fight between freedom and health, and a POTUS who amplified these ideas, created an environment that demanded the narrative be spoken loudly in order to be heard.gvn2fly1421 said:
For me, obviously one of the vaccine hesitant, I am arguing that there is a risk for me either way, catching the virus or getting the vaccine. Now, I feel both of those risks would be small to me, considering I am a relatively healthy under 40 male. I have chosen to forgo the vaccine until we have some real, long term data showing me that the vaccine is truly "safe and effective".mrussel1 said:
Okay so you're arguing that COVID isn't dangerous, and the path to that argument is spreading other misinformation. Do I have that right?gvn2fly1421 said:
And you see no problem with how covid deaths were counted, correct? 30-60 days after a positive test if you passed away it was counted as a covid death. You see no issue with that, yet would like to label the links above as misinformation? I posted numerous links of gunshot victims, motorcycle crashes, etc. all counted as covid deaths, yet you are ok with that because it fits the narrative your party would like it to fit.mrussel1 said:
This is the classic correlation, not causation situation. From what is here, you can not declare that the cause of death within 28 days was the vaccine. People die all the time, every day. Scotland's vax rate is over 50%. So comparing deaths of vaccinated people to COVID 19 deaths (which this paper did), is the very definition of misinformation. It's misleading, unclear and leads people to draw unsubstantiated conclusions.gvn2fly1421 said:https://dailyexpose.co.uk/2021/07/18/5522-people-have-died-within-28-days-of-having-a-covid-19-vaccine-in-scotland-according-to-public-health-scotland/5,522 people have died within 28 days of having a Covid-19 Vaccine in Scotland according to Public Health Scotland
According to the spreadsheet provided by Public Health Scotland; which includes the quantity of deaths by type of vaccine and the date they occurred, 1,877 deaths have been due to the Pfizer mRNA jab, 3,643 deaths have been due to the AstraZeneca viral vector jab, and 2 deaths have been due to the Moderna mRNA jab.
This equates to an average of 920 deaths occurring every month due to the Covid-19 vaccines in Scotland alone. Outnumbering the average number of people who have died of Covid-19 in Scotland by 866 per month.
Also, closer to home... The number was 6,000 last week.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html
- Reports of death after COVID-19 vaccination are rare. More than 338 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through July 19, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 12,313 reports of death (0.0036%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS, even if it’s unclear whether the vaccine was the cause. Reports of adverse events to VAERS following vaccination, including deaths, do not necessarily mean that a vaccine caused a health problem. A review of available clinical information, including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records, has not established a causal link to COVID-19 vaccines. However, recent reports indicate a plausible causal relationship between the J&J/Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine and TTS, a rare and serious adverse event—blood clots with low platelets—which has caused deaths.
Were I the moderator, I would take down this post or at least mark it as misinformation. @gvn2fly1421 - this is a serious question. Do you critically think about what you post before you post it, or are you just grabbing links? How could you think this isn't misleading?
Imagine with me something so "safe and effective" that we have to be told over and over again how safe and effective it is. The safety is obviously up in the air with all the side effects and possible death related to it, and the effectiveness is questionable as well seeing as how all of these people are catching the virus and still spreading it and still having their lives disrupted.
And because I have been here numerous times on this board, I know what comes next... But the vaccine will reduce the symptoms of covid. Right, the same virus that most people do not even know they have. Those symptoms. Again, I think most on this board think if you get covid you are either going to the hospital for an extended trip or going to die, both of which are so low odds of happening, let's say the same chance of having something bad happen when taking the vaccine, that I personally would rather take my chance with the virus.
I honestly do not see why my stance is so controversial to the point of being called names. And also, imagine wanting to be the keeper of what data/information gets published and what doesn't... Yikes, now that is scary...
Both sides have made this political. I posted a mashup the other day of Biden and Harris doubting the vaccine.
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Sure it’s tough to read through all your awful posts. But the quote I took that from wasn’t any of those posts.gvn2fly1421 said:
I thought my sarcasm meter was off the charts with posts like...cincybearcat said:
Forgo the vaccine you say? In the coronavirus thread you got closed, you stated:gvn2fly1421 said:
For me, obviously one of the vaccine hesitant, I am arguing that there is a risk for me either way, catching the virus or getting the vaccine. Now, I feel both of those risks would be small to me, considering I am a relatively healthy under 40 male. I have chosen to forgo the vaccine until we have some real, long term data showing me that the vaccine is truly "safe and effective".mrussel1 said:
Okay so you're arguing that COVID isn't dangerous, and the path to that argument is spreading other misinformation. Do I have that right?gvn2fly1421 said:
And you see no problem with how covid deaths were counted, correct? 30-60 days after a positive test if you passed away it was counted as a covid death. You see no issue with that, yet would like to label the links above as misinformation? I posted numerous links of gunshot victims, motorcycle crashes, etc. all counted as covid deaths, yet you are ok with that because it fits the narrative your party would like it to fit.mrussel1 said:
This is the classic correlation, not causation situation. From what is here, you can not declare that the cause of death within 28 days was the vaccine. People die all the time, every day. Scotland's vax rate is over 50%. So comparing deaths of vaccinated people to COVID 19 deaths (which this paper did), is the very definition of misinformation. It's misleading, unclear and leads people to draw unsubstantiated conclusions.gvn2fly1421 said:https://dailyexpose.co.uk/2021/07/18/5522-people-have-died-within-28-days-of-having-a-covid-19-vaccine-in-scotland-according-to-public-health-scotland/5,522 people have died within 28 days of having a Covid-19 Vaccine in Scotland according to Public Health Scotland
According to the spreadsheet provided by Public Health Scotland; which includes the quantity of deaths by type of vaccine and the date they occurred, 1,877 deaths have been due to the Pfizer mRNA jab, 3,643 deaths have been due to the AstraZeneca viral vector jab, and 2 deaths have been due to the Moderna mRNA jab.
This equates to an average of 920 deaths occurring every month due to the Covid-19 vaccines in Scotland alone. Outnumbering the average number of people who have died of Covid-19 in Scotland by 866 per month.
Also, closer to home... The number was 6,000 last week.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html
- Reports of death after COVID-19 vaccination are rare. More than 338 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through July 19, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 12,313 reports of death (0.0036%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS, even if it’s unclear whether the vaccine was the cause. Reports of adverse events to VAERS following vaccination, including deaths, do not necessarily mean that a vaccine caused a health problem. A review of available clinical information, including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records, has not established a causal link to COVID-19 vaccines. However, recent reports indicate a plausible causal relationship between the J&J/Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine and TTS, a rare and serious adverse event—blood clots with low platelets—which has caused deaths.
Were I the moderator, I would take down this post or at least mark it as misinformation. @gvn2fly1421 - this is a serious question. Do you critically think about what you post before you post it, or are you just grabbing links? How could you think this isn't misleading?
Imagine with me something so "safe and effective" that we have to be told over and over again how safe and effective it is. The safety is obviously up in the air with all the side effects and possible death related to it, and the effectiveness is questionable as well seeing as how all of these people are catching the virus and still spreading it and still having their lives disrupted.
And because I have been here numerous times on this board, I know what comes next... But the vaccine will reduce the symptoms of covid. Right, the same virus that most people do not even know they have. Those symptoms. Again, I think most on this board think if you get covid you are either going to the hospital for an extended trip or going to die, both of which are so low odds of happening, let's say the same chance of having something bad happen when taking the vaccine, that I personally would rather take my chance with the virus.
I honestly do not see why my stance is so controversial to the point of being called names. And also, imagine wanting to be the keeper of what data/information gets published and what doesn't... Yikes, now that is scary...
" Like I said, I am fully vaccinated now and a lot of it is your analysis. So many thanks!"
Or am I reading one of these posts wrong? Cause you can't be vaccinated and have "chosen to forgo the vaccine"
"BTW, for those wondering, I am fully vaccinated now. I would show you my card but I only posted it to my Facebook. Took one shot of Pfizer and one Moderna. Ready for the Pfizer booster in 4-6 months and may get the J&J in a few weeks for extra protection!"
or...
"To help spur a vaccine drive for my area, very redneck-y if you catch my drift, I am going to do several raffles. Guns, booze, American flags, truck nuts, the works. I will report back in several weeks and let y'all know how I do. Just trying to spread the word on the power of the vaccine. I really didn't even experience any side effects, just couldn't use my right arm for three days, which was really weird. You know like when you get dental work and they numb your mouth and your lips feel like they are droopy. That's what my right arm felt like. The weird part was I got the jab in the left arm. Oh well, I am rambling now. "
...but apparently it was not clear enough. BTW, how is that 401k looking? Probably not much different than two days ago when you blamed the "Unvaxxed-holes" or was it "Antivax-holes" for your retirement savings being depleted.
And again, it wasn’t about 1 day. It’s about what is to come. We saw what happened the last time coronavirus was widespread. How can you not get that? Are you purposefully being dense?hippiemom = goodness0 -
Oregon... https://www.oregon.gov/oha/PH/BIRTHDEATHCERTIFICATES/VITALSTATISTICS/DEATH/Pages/reporting-covid-deaths.aspxmrussel1 said:
I don't believe that any death occurring within 60 days of a positive test is counted as COVID. Where are you sourcing that information? If COVID were not actually connected to the death, we would not have seen a 15.9% age adjusted increase in mortality in 2020 compared to 2019. If your hypothesis is correct, the mortality rate would not have increased at all.gvn2fly1421 said:mrussell and poncier, thank you!
The thing with the information I post though, is that is how I form my opinion. I am getting blasted over this Scotland data, which is literally linked to the Public Health site and data in the article. The way I understand the issue you have mrussell is how that data is being interpreted, in that they are counting vaccine deaths as any death within 28 days of the vaccine being administered. I am trying to say that is how covid deaths have been counted this whole time so why not count the vaccine deaths the same?Categorization of an Oregon COVID death
In Oregon a death is reported as a COVID death if:
- The death is of a confirmed or probable COVID-19 case within 60 days of the earliest available date among exposure to a confirmed case, onset of symptoms, or date of specimen collection for the first positive test; or
- The death results from any cause in a hospitalized person during admission or in the 60 days following discharge AND a COVID-19-positive laboratory diagnostic test at any time since14 days prior to hospitalization; or
- The death is of someone with a COVID-19-specific ICD-10 code listed as a primary or contributing cause of death on a death certificate, regardless of the dates of diagnosis or death.
While not 60 days, I love this video of the Illinois Director of Public Health being completely honest.
https://week.com/2020/04/20/idph-director-explains-how-covid-deaths-are-classified/
""If you were in hospice and had already been given a few weeks to live, and then you also were found to have COVID, that would be counted as a COVID death. It means technically even if you died of a clear alternate cause, but you had COVID at the same time, it's still listed as a COVID death. So, everyone who's listed as a COVID death doesn't mean that that was the cause of the death, but they had COVID at the time of the death." Dr. Ezike outlined."0 -
Ledbetterman10 said:
Why? This is one aspect of "interneting" that I'll just never understand; the people that need to be "in before the lock." Well you're in. Good to have ya.gimmesometruth27 said:in before the lock
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What exactly happened last time the virus was widespread? In regards to your 401k it should have been great.cincybearcat said:
Sure it’s tough to read through all your awful posts. But the quote I took that from wasn’t any of those posts.gvn2fly1421 said:
I thought my sarcasm meter was off the charts with posts like...cincybearcat said:
Forgo the vaccine you say? In the coronavirus thread you got closed, you stated:gvn2fly1421 said:
For me, obviously one of the vaccine hesitant, I am arguing that there is a risk for me either way, catching the virus or getting the vaccine. Now, I feel both of those risks would be small to me, considering I am a relatively healthy under 40 male. I have chosen to forgo the vaccine until we have some real, long term data showing me that the vaccine is truly "safe and effective".mrussel1 said:
Okay so you're arguing that COVID isn't dangerous, and the path to that argument is spreading other misinformation. Do I have that right?gvn2fly1421 said:
And you see no problem with how covid deaths were counted, correct? 30-60 days after a positive test if you passed away it was counted as a covid death. You see no issue with that, yet would like to label the links above as misinformation? I posted numerous links of gunshot victims, motorcycle crashes, etc. all counted as covid deaths, yet you are ok with that because it fits the narrative your party would like it to fit.mrussel1 said:
This is the classic correlation, not causation situation. From what is here, you can not declare that the cause of death within 28 days was the vaccine. People die all the time, every day. Scotland's vax rate is over 50%. So comparing deaths of vaccinated people to COVID 19 deaths (which this paper did), is the very definition of misinformation. It's misleading, unclear and leads people to draw unsubstantiated conclusions.gvn2fly1421 said:https://dailyexpose.co.uk/2021/07/18/5522-people-have-died-within-28-days-of-having-a-covid-19-vaccine-in-scotland-according-to-public-health-scotland/5,522 people have died within 28 days of having a Covid-19 Vaccine in Scotland according to Public Health Scotland
According to the spreadsheet provided by Public Health Scotland; which includes the quantity of deaths by type of vaccine and the date they occurred, 1,877 deaths have been due to the Pfizer mRNA jab, 3,643 deaths have been due to the AstraZeneca viral vector jab, and 2 deaths have been due to the Moderna mRNA jab.
This equates to an average of 920 deaths occurring every month due to the Covid-19 vaccines in Scotland alone. Outnumbering the average number of people who have died of Covid-19 in Scotland by 866 per month.
Also, closer to home... The number was 6,000 last week.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html
- Reports of death after COVID-19 vaccination are rare. More than 338 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through July 19, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 12,313 reports of death (0.0036%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS, even if it’s unclear whether the vaccine was the cause. Reports of adverse events to VAERS following vaccination, including deaths, do not necessarily mean that a vaccine caused a health problem. A review of available clinical information, including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records, has not established a causal link to COVID-19 vaccines. However, recent reports indicate a plausible causal relationship between the J&J/Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine and TTS, a rare and serious adverse event—blood clots with low platelets—which has caused deaths.
Were I the moderator, I would take down this post or at least mark it as misinformation. @gvn2fly1421 - this is a serious question. Do you critically think about what you post before you post it, or are you just grabbing links? How could you think this isn't misleading?
Imagine with me something so "safe and effective" that we have to be told over and over again how safe and effective it is. The safety is obviously up in the air with all the side effects and possible death related to it, and the effectiveness is questionable as well seeing as how all of these people are catching the virus and still spreading it and still having their lives disrupted.
And because I have been here numerous times on this board, I know what comes next... But the vaccine will reduce the symptoms of covid. Right, the same virus that most people do not even know they have. Those symptoms. Again, I think most on this board think if you get covid you are either going to the hospital for an extended trip or going to die, both of which are so low odds of happening, let's say the same chance of having something bad happen when taking the vaccine, that I personally would rather take my chance with the virus.
I honestly do not see why my stance is so controversial to the point of being called names. And also, imagine wanting to be the keeper of what data/information gets published and what doesn't... Yikes, now that is scary...
" Like I said, I am fully vaccinated now and a lot of it is your analysis. So many thanks!"
Or am I reading one of these posts wrong? Cause you can't be vaccinated and have "chosen to forgo the vaccine"
"BTW, for those wondering, I am fully vaccinated now. I would show you my card but I only posted it to my Facebook. Took one shot of Pfizer and one Moderna. Ready for the Pfizer booster in 4-6 months and may get the J&J in a few weeks for extra protection!"
or...
"To help spur a vaccine drive for my area, very redneck-y if you catch my drift, I am going to do several raffles. Guns, booze, American flags, truck nuts, the works. I will report back in several weeks and let y'all know how I do. Just trying to spread the word on the power of the vaccine. I really didn't even experience any side effects, just couldn't use my right arm for three days, which was really weird. You know like when you get dental work and they numb your mouth and your lips feel like they are droopy. That's what my right arm felt like. The weird part was I got the jab in the left arm. Oh well, I am rambling now. "
...but apparently it was not clear enough. BTW, how is that 401k looking? Probably not much different than two days ago when you blamed the "Unvaxxed-holes" or was it "Antivax-holes" for your retirement savings being depleted.
And again, it wasn’t about 1 day. It’s about what is to come. We saw what happened the last time coronavirus was widespread. How can you not get that? Are you purposefully being dense?
On February 14th of 2020, the DJIA was at ~29,000. By March 20th it had went all the way down to ~19,000. It is currently at 34,700. So remind me again how I am being dense?
Two things, one being if you are close to retirement, then I get the angst. I truly do. But, me being no financial advisor (or maybe I am) if you are close to retirement I might have you in something a little less risky. The second thing, how can you not look at those numbers above and not see a buying opportunity for the ages?
Also, who truly made out during this last year....
https://www.businessinsider.com/billionaires-net-worth-increases-coronavirus-pandemic-2020-7How billionaires saw their net worth increase by half a trillion dollars during the pandemic
0 -
So - I said the economy. You made it out to just be my 401k somehow.gvn2fly1421 said:
What exactly happened last time the virus was widespread? In regards to your 401k it should have been great.cincybearcat said:
Sure it’s tough to read through all your awful posts. But the quote I took that from wasn’t any of those posts.gvn2fly1421 said:
I thought my sarcasm meter was off the charts with posts like...cincybearcat said:
Forgo the vaccine you say? In the coronavirus thread you got closed, you stated:gvn2fly1421 said:
For me, obviously one of the vaccine hesitant, I am arguing that there is a risk for me either way, catching the virus or getting the vaccine. Now, I feel both of those risks would be small to me, considering I am a relatively healthy under 40 male. I have chosen to forgo the vaccine until we have some real, long term data showing me that the vaccine is truly "safe and effective".mrussel1 said:
Okay so you're arguing that COVID isn't dangerous, and the path to that argument is spreading other misinformation. Do I have that right?gvn2fly1421 said:
And you see no problem with how covid deaths were counted, correct? 30-60 days after a positive test if you passed away it was counted as a covid death. You see no issue with that, yet would like to label the links above as misinformation? I posted numerous links of gunshot victims, motorcycle crashes, etc. all counted as covid deaths, yet you are ok with that because it fits the narrative your party would like it to fit.mrussel1 said:
This is the classic correlation, not causation situation. From what is here, you can not declare that the cause of death within 28 days was the vaccine. People die all the time, every day. Scotland's vax rate is over 50%. So comparing deaths of vaccinated people to COVID 19 deaths (which this paper did), is the very definition of misinformation. It's misleading, unclear and leads people to draw unsubstantiated conclusions.gvn2fly1421 said:https://dailyexpose.co.uk/2021/07/18/5522-people-have-died-within-28-days-of-having-a-covid-19-vaccine-in-scotland-according-to-public-health-scotland/5,522 people have died within 28 days of having a Covid-19 Vaccine in Scotland according to Public Health Scotland
According to the spreadsheet provided by Public Health Scotland; which includes the quantity of deaths by type of vaccine and the date they occurred, 1,877 deaths have been due to the Pfizer mRNA jab, 3,643 deaths have been due to the AstraZeneca viral vector jab, and 2 deaths have been due to the Moderna mRNA jab.
This equates to an average of 920 deaths occurring every month due to the Covid-19 vaccines in Scotland alone. Outnumbering the average number of people who have died of Covid-19 in Scotland by 866 per month.
Also, closer to home... The number was 6,000 last week.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html
- Reports of death after COVID-19 vaccination are rare. More than 338 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through July 19, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 12,313 reports of death (0.0036%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS, even if it’s unclear whether the vaccine was the cause. Reports of adverse events to VAERS following vaccination, including deaths, do not necessarily mean that a vaccine caused a health problem. A review of available clinical information, including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records, has not established a causal link to COVID-19 vaccines. However, recent reports indicate a plausible causal relationship between the J&J/Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine and TTS, a rare and serious adverse event—blood clots with low platelets—which has caused deaths.
Were I the moderator, I would take down this post or at least mark it as misinformation. @gvn2fly1421 - this is a serious question. Do you critically think about what you post before you post it, or are you just grabbing links? How could you think this isn't misleading?
Imagine with me something so "safe and effective" that we have to be told over and over again how safe and effective it is. The safety is obviously up in the air with all the side effects and possible death related to it, and the effectiveness is questionable as well seeing as how all of these people are catching the virus and still spreading it and still having their lives disrupted.
And because I have been here numerous times on this board, I know what comes next... But the vaccine will reduce the symptoms of covid. Right, the same virus that most people do not even know they have. Those symptoms. Again, I think most on this board think if you get covid you are either going to the hospital for an extended trip or going to die, both of which are so low odds of happening, let's say the same chance of having something bad happen when taking the vaccine, that I personally would rather take my chance with the virus.
I honestly do not see why my stance is so controversial to the point of being called names. And also, imagine wanting to be the keeper of what data/information gets published and what doesn't... Yikes, now that is scary...
" Like I said, I am fully vaccinated now and a lot of it is your analysis. So many thanks!"
Or am I reading one of these posts wrong? Cause you can't be vaccinated and have "chosen to forgo the vaccine"
"BTW, for those wondering, I am fully vaccinated now. I would show you my card but I only posted it to my Facebook. Took one shot of Pfizer and one Moderna. Ready for the Pfizer booster in 4-6 months and may get the J&J in a few weeks for extra protection!"
or...
"To help spur a vaccine drive for my area, very redneck-y if you catch my drift, I am going to do several raffles. Guns, booze, American flags, truck nuts, the works. I will report back in several weeks and let y'all know how I do. Just trying to spread the word on the power of the vaccine. I really didn't even experience any side effects, just couldn't use my right arm for three days, which was really weird. You know like when you get dental work and they numb your mouth and your lips feel like they are droopy. That's what my right arm felt like. The weird part was I got the jab in the left arm. Oh well, I am rambling now. "
...but apparently it was not clear enough. BTW, how is that 401k looking? Probably not much different than two days ago when you blamed the "Unvaxxed-holes" or was it "Antivax-holes" for your retirement savings being depleted.
And again, it wasn’t about 1 day. It’s about what is to come. We saw what happened the last time coronavirus was widespread. How can you not get that? Are you purposefully being dense?
On February 14th of 2020, the DJIA was at ~29,000. By March 20th it had went all the way down to ~19,000. It is currently at 34,700. So remind me again how I am being dense?
Two things, one being if you are close to retirement, then I get the angst. I truly do. But, me being no financial advisor (or maybe I am) if you are close to retirement I might have you in something a little less risky. The second thing, how can you not look at those numbers above and not see a buying opportunity for the ages?
Also, who truly made out during this last year....
https://www.businessinsider.com/billionaires-net-worth-increases-coronavirus-pandemic-2020-7How billionaires saw their net worth increase by half a trillion dollars during the pandemic
Luckily I’m essential and did just fine. Lots of people didn’t.hippiemom = goodness0 -
0 -
Those provisions are entirely reasonable. Second, what about the data that shows a material increase in deaths year over year? 15.9% is significant. Just the other day, it was announced that the average lifespan was reduced by 1.5 years in 2020, the biggest decrease since WWII. https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/07/21/1018590263/u-s-life-expectancy-fell-1-5-years-2020-biggest-drop-since-ww-ii-covidgvn2fly1421 said:
Oregon... https://www.oregon.gov/oha/PH/BIRTHDEATHCERTIFICATES/VITALSTATISTICS/DEATH/Pages/reporting-covid-deaths.aspxmrussel1 said:
I don't believe that any death occurring within 60 days of a positive test is counted as COVID. Where are you sourcing that information? If COVID were not actually connected to the death, we would not have seen a 15.9% age adjusted increase in mortality in 2020 compared to 2019. If your hypothesis is correct, the mortality rate would not have increased at all.gvn2fly1421 said:mrussell and poncier, thank you!
The thing with the information I post though, is that is how I form my opinion. I am getting blasted over this Scotland data, which is literally linked to the Public Health site and data in the article. The way I understand the issue you have mrussell is how that data is being interpreted, in that they are counting vaccine deaths as any death within 28 days of the vaccine being administered. I am trying to say that is how covid deaths have been counted this whole time so why not count the vaccine deaths the same?Categorization of an Oregon COVID death
In Oregon a death is reported as a COVID death if:
- The death is of a confirmed or probable COVID-19 case within 60 days of the earliest available date among exposure to a confirmed case, onset of symptoms, or date of specimen collection for the first positive test; or
- The death results from any cause in a hospitalized person during admission or in the 60 days following discharge AND a COVID-19-positive laboratory diagnostic test at any time since14 days prior to hospitalization; or
- The death is of someone with a COVID-19-specific ICD-10 code listed as a primary or contributing cause of death on a death certificate, regardless of the dates of diagnosis or death.
While not 60 days, I love this video of the Illinois Director of Public Health being completely honest.
https://week.com/2020/04/20/idph-director-explains-how-covid-deaths-are-classified/
""If you were in hospice and had already been given a few weeks to live, and then you also were found to have COVID, that would be counted as a COVID death. It means technically even if you died of a clear alternate cause, but you had COVID at the same time, it's still listed as a COVID death. So, everyone who's listed as a COVID death doesn't mean that that was the cause of the death, but they had COVID at the time of the death." Dr. Ezike outlined."
Again, this is real causal data that shows COVID was real and has/had a meaningful negative impact on life expectancy, mortality rates, etc. If COVID is overstated and just BS, why would these numbers continue to represent the opposite?0 -
You specifically mentioned your retirement savings. That's why I made it about the stock market. I would gladly discuss in a private message with you, but I would prefer not to get this thread closed again. After all, I am making a lot of friends here...cincybearcat said:It’s just great seeing the economy beginning to tank again due to Anti-Vaxxers. This ain’t hard people. And I’d like to keep my retirement savings intact please, do you?
Get the damn shot.
0 -
You really need better sources of information and stop misrepresenting but to answer the bold, see below:gvn2fly1421 said:mrussell and poncier, thank you!
The thing with the information I post though, is that is how I form my opinion. I am getting blasted over this Scotland data, which is literally linked to the Public Health site and data in the article. The way I understand the issue you have mrussell is how that data is being interpreted, in that they are counting vaccine deaths as any death within 28 days of the vaccine being administered. I am trying to say that is how covid deaths have been counted this whole time so why not count the vaccine deaths the same?Death certificates are not filed in the system until outstanding test results are in and the information is as complete as possible. By the time a record gets to the vital records system, “it is as close to perfect as it's going to get,” Webster says.
A physician, medical examiner or coroner fills out the cause of mortality on the death certificate. That specialist is instructed to include only conditions that caused or contributed to death, Anderson says. One field lists the sequence of events leading to the death. “What we're really trying to get at is the condition or disease that started the chain of events leading to the death,” Anderson says. “For COVID-19, that might be something like acute respiratory distress due to pneumonia due to COVID-19.” A second part of the certificate lists other conditions that may have contributed to the death yet were not part of the sequence of events that led up to it, he says. These are called comorbidities, and although they can be contributing factors, they cannot be directly involved in the chain of cause and effect that ended in death. Medical conditions such as diabetes or heart disease are common comorbidities, and they can make a person more vulnerable to the coronavirus, Anderson says, “but the fact is: they're not dying from that preexisting condition.”
“When we ask if COVID killed somebody, it means ‘Did they die sooner than they would have if they didn't have the virus?’” Lessler says. Even a person with a potentially life-shortening condition such as heart disease may have lived another five, 10 or more years, had they not become infected with COVID-19.
Later in the article:
The idea that a death certificate with ailments listed in addition to COVID-19 means that the person did not really die from the virus is simply false, Anderson says.
The surveillance and vital statistics data provide a pretty good picture of how many deaths are attributable to the coronavirus, but they do not capture all of them, and that is where the final line of evidence come in: excess deaths. They are the number of deaths that occur above and beyond the historical pattern for that time period, says Steven Woolf, a physician and population health researcher at the Virginia Commonwealth University School of Medicine.
Debunking the False Claim That COVID Death Counts Are Inflated - Scientific American
This had been explained in the previous thread, since closed, and you chose to either ignore the explanation and the evidence backing that explanation or just continue to post conspiracy theories and misinformation. What are your thoughts on the death count in India being closer to 3-4 million? All motorcycle and gun accidents?09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
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That is the one thing I have no had a comeback for the past several months of debate on this topic (excess death). I have offered ideas, one of which is shared in the very article you linked-mrussel1 said:
Those provisions are entirely reasonable. Second, what about the data that shows a material increase in deaths year over year? 15.9% is significant. Just the other day, it was announced that the average lifespan was reduced by 1.5 years in 2020, the biggest decrease since WWII. https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/07/21/1018590263/u-s-life-expectancy-fell-1-5-years-2020-biggest-drop-since-ww-ii-covidgvn2fly1421 said:
Oregon... https://www.oregon.gov/oha/PH/BIRTHDEATHCERTIFICATES/VITALSTATISTICS/DEATH/Pages/reporting-covid-deaths.aspxmrussel1 said:
I don't believe that any death occurring within 60 days of a positive test is counted as COVID. Where are you sourcing that information? If COVID were not actually connected to the death, we would not have seen a 15.9% age adjusted increase in mortality in 2020 compared to 2019. If your hypothesis is correct, the mortality rate would not have increased at all.gvn2fly1421 said:mrussell and poncier, thank you!
The thing with the information I post though, is that is how I form my opinion. I am getting blasted over this Scotland data, which is literally linked to the Public Health site and data in the article. The way I understand the issue you have mrussell is how that data is being interpreted, in that they are counting vaccine deaths as any death within 28 days of the vaccine being administered. I am trying to say that is how covid deaths have been counted this whole time so why not count the vaccine deaths the same?Categorization of an Oregon COVID death
In Oregon a death is reported as a COVID death if:
- The death is of a confirmed or probable COVID-19 case within 60 days of the earliest available date among exposure to a confirmed case, onset of symptoms, or date of specimen collection for the first positive test; or
- The death results from any cause in a hospitalized person during admission or in the 60 days following discharge AND a COVID-19-positive laboratory diagnostic test at any time since14 days prior to hospitalization; or
- The death is of someone with a COVID-19-specific ICD-10 code listed as a primary or contributing cause of death on a death certificate, regardless of the dates of diagnosis or death.
While not 60 days, I love this video of the Illinois Director of Public Health being completely honest.
https://week.com/2020/04/20/idph-director-explains-how-covid-deaths-are-classified/
""If you were in hospice and had already been given a few weeks to live, and then you also were found to have COVID, that would be counted as a COVID death. It means technically even if you died of a clear alternate cause, but you had COVID at the same time, it's still listed as a COVID death. So, everyone who's listed as a COVID death doesn't mean that that was the cause of the death, but they had COVID at the time of the death." Dr. Ezike outlined."
Again, this is real causal data that shows COVID was real and has/had a meaningful negative impact on life expectancy, mortality rates, etc. If COVID is overstated and just BS, why would these numbers continue to represent the opposite?
"The increase in drug overdose deaths was also a factor in declining life expectancy. More than 93,000 people died from drug overdoses in 2020. That's the highest number reported in a single year. Other causes of death contributing to the decline were increases in homicide and deaths from diabetes and chronic liver disease."
It seems like I read somewhere that the average age of covid death is higher than the average life expectancy. May try to find that later.
I do not understand how you think it is reasonable that I test positive for the virus on January 1, then die on Febraury 28th to an automobile accident and that should count as a covid death.0 -
That's quite alright. Carry on with your campaign against the vaccine her in public.gvn2fly1421 said:
You specifically mentioned your retirement savings. That's why I made it about the stock market. I would gladly discuss in a private message with you, but I would prefer not to get this thread closed again. After all, I am making a lot of friends here...cincybearcat said:It’s just great seeing the economy beginning to tank again due to Anti-Vaxxers. This ain’t hard people. And I’d like to keep my retirement savings intact please, do you?
Get the damn shot.hippiemom = goodness0
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