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Viruses / Vaccines

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  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 22,043
    ^^ that's hilarious!

    I guess America DOES want their Fauci 'ouchie' (to quote a great American thinker and philosopher)

    https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/564262-trust-in-fauci-federal-health-agencies-strong-poll
  • stuckinlinestuckinline Posts: 3,167
    What a hot mess this thread has become! I wish people would stop the 'blame' game regarding who said what. Please get vaccinated, and if you are not vaccinated - mask up!
  • ParksyParksy Posts: 1,139
    What a hot mess this thread has become! I wish people would stop the 'blame' game regarding who said what. Please get vaccinated, and if you are not vaccinated - mask up!

    Seems that simple. We live in a world however where to some people 2+2 does not equal 4.  
    Toronto 2000
    Buffalo, Phoenix, Toronto 2003
    Boston I&II 2004
    Kitchener, Hamilton, London, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto 2005
    Toronto I&II, Las Vegas 2006
    Chicago Lollapalooza 2007
    Toronto, Seattle I&II, Vancouver, Philly I,II,III,IV 2009
    Cleveland, Buffalo 2010
    Toronto I&II 2011
    Buffalo 2013
    Toronto I&II 2016
    10C: 220xxx
  • BentleyspopBentleyspop Craft Beer Brewery, ColoradoPosts: 8,888
    What a hot mess this thread has become! I wish people would stop the 'blame' game regarding who said what. Please get vaccinated, and if you are not vaccinated - mask up!
    To most people yes of course.

    But to too many people around the world, in this country, and on this site, being ignorant and selfish makes more sense to them.
  • PJNBPJNB New BrunswickPosts: 8,807
    edited July 22
    If you are not vaccinated there is a very high chance that you will not mask up. Either everyone masks up or only those that want to can. There is no in between here sadly thought that is what the CDC was trying to implement a couple of months ago. 



    Also with case counts going up everywhere in the US I am curious how this plays out state by state. Will we be seeing huge increases in deaths and hospitalizations in low vaccinated states comparable to numbers we saw last winter or will there just be a small bump up this time. Also states that have good to great vaccination numbers are they going to mirror what happened in the UK with high case counts still but with most of the vulnerable vaccinated, the deaths and hospitalizations are nothing close to the winter numbers or are they going to be in trouble too? Going to be interesting to watch.

    The cases are going to go up and up in the next couple of weeks. I am curious how the US media of state governors handle it since we are in a unique situation where most that want to be vaccinated are. 
    Post edited by PJNB on
    PJ
    2013 Worcester 1 & 2
    2016 Quebec, Toronto 2, Fenway 1&2, Wrigley 2
    2018 Prague, Krakow, Berlin, Seattle 2, Wrigley 2, Fenway 1&2 

    EV
    2017 Firenze, Taormina 1 & 2
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 21,906
    What a hot mess this thread has become! I wish people would stop the 'blame' game regarding who said what. Please get vaccinated, and if you are not vaccinated - mask up!

    and this is a replacement thread,  by a mod no less, because the covid thread got locked....
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • JeBurkhardtJeBurkhardt Posts: 1,082
    PJNB said:
    If you are not vaccinated there is a very high chance that you will not mask up. Either everyone masks up or only those that want to can. There is no in between here sadly thought that is what the CDC was trying to implement a couple of months ago. 



    Also with case counts going up everywhere in the US I am curious how this plays out state by state. Will w be seeing huge increases in deaths and hospitalizations in low vaccinated states comparable to numbers we saw last winter or will there just be a small bump up this time. Also states that have good to great vaccination numbers are they going to mirror what happened in the UK with high case counts still but with most of the vulnerable vaccinated, the deaths and hospitalizations are nothing close to the winter numbers. 

    The cases are going to go up and up in the next couple of weeks. I am curious how the US media of state governors handle it since we are in a unique situation where most that want to be vaccinated are. 
    It will even go beyond State to State, it will go regions of States as well. In Northern Illinois, St Louis Metro and Springfield areas have 2 dose vaccine rates higher than 40%. Southern Illinois where I live has 2 dose rates in the lower 30's%, with my county at a whopping 31%. 
  • PJNBPJNB New BrunswickPosts: 8,807
    PJNB said:
    If you are not vaccinated there is a very high chance that you will not mask up. Either everyone masks up or only those that want to can. There is no in between here sadly thought that is what the CDC was trying to implement a couple of months ago. 



    Also with case counts going up everywhere in the US I am curious how this plays out state by state. Will w be seeing huge increases in deaths and hospitalizations in low vaccinated states comparable to numbers we saw last winter or will there just be a small bump up this time. Also states that have good to great vaccination numbers are they going to mirror what happened in the UK with high case counts still but with most of the vulnerable vaccinated, the deaths and hospitalizations are nothing close to the winter numbers. 

    The cases are going to go up and up in the next couple of weeks. I am curious how the US media of state governors handle it since we are in a unique situation where most that want to be vaccinated are. 
    It will even go beyond State to State, it will go regions of States as well. In Northern Illinois, St Louis Metro and Springfield areas have 2 dose vaccine rates higher than 40%. Southern Illinois where I live has 2 dose rates in the lower 30's%, with my county at a whopping 31%. 
    Very true. I would guess though that the larger municipalities (usually more blue) have higher vaccination rates compared to smaller counties outside the big cities? I know those smaller counties add up to be a lot (looking at you Texas) but for population density sake at the very least the locations that need high vaccination counts the most do I hope. And if that is true then maybe the numbers can be better than what happened in the UK which is a small area land wise with a decent sized population. It is 1/3 the size of Texas and has over double the population.

    I keep going back to the UK since they are hopefully at the peak of their case count on this wave and really one of the only place (aside from Holland) to compare to. 


    PJ
    2013 Worcester 1 & 2
    2016 Quebec, Toronto 2, Fenway 1&2, Wrigley 2
    2018 Prague, Krakow, Berlin, Seattle 2, Wrigley 2, Fenway 1&2 

    EV
    2017 Firenze, Taormina 1 & 2
  • curmudgeonesscurmudgeoness Brigadoon, foodie capitalPosts: 2,657
    Poncier said:
    Based on recent evidence, this definitely seems to be mis, or is it dis, informaiton.  Oh well, I am sure the CNN's and MSNBC's, as well as all the "fact-checkers" on this board will be all over it this morning...


    95% or more who get vaccinated don't get Covid (here in MA the number of break through infections since vaccine distribution started is at 0.1% of the vaccinated population), so sure its not an absolute what he said, but its pretty accurate, and the vaccines were never said to have tested to 100% efficacy, Pfizer & Moderna in the 95% range, J&J at about 65%, but all were found to prevent basically 100% of death and close to 100% of hospitalization/severe illness.

    ... and they were hoping to develop a vaccine that would be 50% effective. So even the J&J results exceeded expectations. Remember that the annual flu shot generally has 40-50% effectiveness.

    I've read the paper that was discussed in the New York Times two days ago, and I watched an interview with Dr. Fauci in which he was asked about the paper (not yet peer-reviewed) and its results. He said that the results were based on lab tests, not on real-world cases, so while they are keeping the paper and its results in mind, they need more real-world data before they decide if boosters are needed.

    That said, one of my kids got the J&J shot and I've encouraged him to resume masking in indoor situations.

    There will be breakthrough cases. There is no perfect vaccine. But as they keep saying, the vaccines ARE nearly perfect when it comes to preventing hospitalization and death. I don't know why this is so hard to understand, although I tend to blame the poor state of science education in our schools for at least part of it.

    All those who seek to destroy the liberties of a democratic nation ought to know that war is the surest and shortest means to accomplish it.
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 21,906
    Poncier said:
    Based on recent evidence, this definitely seems to be mis, or is it dis, informaiton.  Oh well, I am sure the CNN's and MSNBC's, as well as all the "fact-checkers" on this board will be all over it this morning...


    95% or more who get vaccinated don't get Covid (here in MA the number of break through infections since vaccine distribution started is at 0.1% of the vaccinated population), so sure its not an absolute what he said, but its pretty accurate, and the vaccines were never said to have tested to 100% efficacy, Pfizer & Moderna in the 95% range, J&J at about 65%, but all were found to prevent basically 100% of death and close to 100% of hospitalization/severe illness.

    ... and they were hoping to develop a vaccine that would be 50% effective. So even the J&J results exceeded expectations. Remember that the annual flu shot generally has 40-50% effectiveness.

    I've read the paper that was discussed in the New York Times two days ago, and I watched an interview with Dr. Fauci in which he was asked about the paper (not yet peer-reviewed) and its results. He said that the results were based on lab tests, not on real-world cases, so while they are keeping the paper and its results in mind, they need more real-world data before they decide if boosters are needed.

    That said, one of my kids got the J&J shot and I've encouraged him to resume masking in indoor situations.

    There will be breakthrough cases. There is no perfect vaccine. But as they keep saying, the vaccines ARE nearly perfect when it comes to preventing hospitalization and death. I don't know why this is so hard to understand, although I tend to blame the poor state of science education in our schools for at least part of it.


    willful ignorance and fantastical thinking dont help either.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • JeBurkhardtJeBurkhardt Posts: 1,082
    PJNB said:
    PJNB said:
    If you are not vaccinated there is a very high chance that you will not mask up. Either everyone masks up or only those that want to can. There is no in between here sadly thought that is what the CDC was trying to implement a couple of months ago. 



    Also with case counts going up everywhere in the US I am curious how this plays out state by state. Will w be seeing huge increases in deaths and hospitalizations in low vaccinated states comparable to numbers we saw last winter or will there just be a small bump up this time. Also states that have good to great vaccination numbers are they going to mirror what happened in the UK with high case counts still but with most of the vulnerable vaccinated, the deaths and hospitalizations are nothing close to the winter numbers. 

    The cases are going to go up and up in the next couple of weeks. I am curious how the US media of state governors handle it since we are in a unique situation where most that want to be vaccinated are. 
    It will even go beyond State to State, it will go regions of States as well. In Northern Illinois, St Louis Metro and Springfield areas have 2 dose vaccine rates higher than 40%. Southern Illinois where I live has 2 dose rates in the lower 30's%, with my county at a whopping 31%. 
    Very true. I would guess though that the larger municipalities (usually more blue) have higher vaccination rates compared to smaller counties outside the big cities? I know those smaller counties add up to be a lot (looking at you Texas) but for population density sake at the very least the locations that need high vaccination counts the most do I hope. And if that is true then maybe the numbers can be better than what happened in the UK which is a small area land wise with a decent sized population. It is 1/3 the size of Texas and has over double the population.

    I keep going back to the UK since they are hopefully at the peak of their case count on this wave and really one of the only place (aside from Holland) to compare to. 


    You are correct about the urban/suburban contrast to rural rates of vaccination and politics. Even though a lot of people automatically think about Chicago when Illinois is brought up, the majority of the State is rural and when you look at the county by county rates, it follows it closely. The bad part is that hospitals are small here and not plentiful in our rural areas and won't be able to handle large numbers of Covid patients. They will need to be transported to bigger cities, like you are seeing in Missouri.  
  • curmudgeonesscurmudgeoness Brigadoon, foodie capitalPosts: 2,657
    PJNB said:
    If you are not vaccinated there is a very high chance that you will not mask up. Either everyone masks up or only those that want to can. There is no in between here sadly thought that is what the CDC was trying to implement a couple of months ago. 



    Also with case counts going up everywhere in the US I am curious how this plays out state by state. Will we be seeing huge increases in deaths and hospitalizations in low vaccinated states comparable to numbers we saw last winter or will there just be a small bump up this time. Also states that have good to great vaccination numbers are they going to mirror what happened in the UK with high case counts still but with most of the vulnerable vaccinated, the deaths and hospitalizations are nothing close to the winter numbers or are they going to be in trouble too? Going to be interesting to watch.

    The cases are going to go up and up in the next couple of weeks. I am curious how the US media of state governors handle it since we are in a unique situation where most that want to be vaccinated are. 

    I expected that July 4th would be a test/ inflection point for us, and here we are.

    Lifting the mask mandate -- well, it was obvious what would happen: people who were vaccinated and who had been cautious continued to mask, those who were anti-mask stopped masking. Where I live, nearly everyone is vaccinated, but we still have people masking outdoors.

    We've traveled some recently. Despite the mask mandates for public transportation, I'd say easily 35% of people in the Denver airport were not masked/ were wearing chin diapers.

    I took the government lifting of the mask mandate to mean: "You're adults. We've told you, if you're vaccinated, you're protected. If you're not, you're not." Unfortunately the delta variant might change that.

    I live in San Diego, where overall vaccination rates are great. But the number of cases went up more than 80% in the last week. Quoting now from the weekly update from the county:

    <<The rise in cases and hospitalizations is occurring primarily in San Diegans who are not vaccinated. These individuals are also being disproportionately impacted by the Alpha, Gamma and Delta COVID-19 variants of concern.

    “The best protection we have against COVID-19 is getting vaccinated,” said Wilma Wooten, M.D., M.P.H., County public health officer. “The vaccines are extremely effective at preventing serious illness from COVID-19. If you have not gotten immunized, do it now.”

    There has also been a very slight increase in post-vaccination infections, meaning people got infected with COVID-19 even though they were fully vaccinated.

    Wooten said that was expected and that breakthrough cases typically have mild symptoms.

    “This does not mean the vaccine is not working. Quite the opposite, the vaccine is doing what it’s supposed to do: keep most people from being hospitalized, or worse, dying,” Wooten said.>>

     

    All those who seek to destroy the liberties of a democratic nation ought to know that war is the surest and shortest means to accomplish it.
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 22,043
    Poncier said:
    Based on recent evidence, this definitely seems to be mis, or is it dis, informaiton.  Oh well, I am sure the CNN's and MSNBC's, as well as all the "fact-checkers" on this board will be all over it this morning...


    95% or more who get vaccinated don't get Covid (here in MA the number of break through infections since vaccine distribution started is at 0.1% of the vaccinated population), so sure its not an absolute what he said, but its pretty accurate, and the vaccines were never said to have tested to 100% efficacy, Pfizer & Moderna in the 95% range, J&J at about 65%, but all were found to prevent basically 100% of death and close to 100% of hospitalization/severe illness.

    ... and they were hoping to develop a vaccine that would be 50% effective. So even the J&J results exceeded expectations. Remember that the annual flu shot generally has 40-50% effectiveness.

    I've read the paper that was discussed in the New York Times two days ago, and I watched an interview with Dr. Fauci in which he was asked about the paper (not yet peer-reviewed) and its results. He said that the results were based on lab tests, not on real-world cases, so while they are keeping the paper and its results in mind, they need more real-world data before they decide if boosters are needed.

    That said, one of my kids got the J&J shot and I've encouraged him to resume masking in indoor situations.

    There will be breakthrough cases. There is no perfect vaccine. But as they keep saying, the vaccines ARE nearly perfect when it comes to preventing hospitalization and death. I don't know why this is so hard to understand, although I tend to blame the poor state of science education in our schools for at least part of it.

    I have a child that got the J&J and my wife did as well.  The other two and I got the Phizer.  I haven't pushed them to get the second J or a Phizer yet.  J&J says their trials show it is effective and as you say, the one that showed diminished efficacy is not yet peer reviewed.  Have you heard about any reason not to get the single phizer or moderna as a boost? 
  • curmudgeonesscurmudgeoness Brigadoon, foodie capitalPosts: 2,657
    mickeyrat said:


    There will be breakthrough cases. There is no perfect vaccine. But as they keep saying, the vaccines ARE nearly perfect when it comes to preventing hospitalization and death. I don't know why this is so hard to understand, although I tend to blame the poor state of science education in our schools for at least part of it.


    willful ignorance and fantastical thinking dont help either.

    I think everyone who knows me IRL knows that my most well-worn rant is about how critical thinking is the most important subject schools should be teaching their students.
    All those who seek to destroy the liberties of a democratic nation ought to know that war is the surest and shortest means to accomplish it.
  • JeBurkhardtJeBurkhardt Posts: 1,082
    PJNB said:
    If you are not vaccinated there is a very high chance that you will not mask up. Either everyone masks up or only those that want to can. There is no in between here sadly thought that is what the CDC was trying to implement a couple of months ago. 



    Also with case counts going up everywhere in the US I am curious how this plays out state by state. Will we be seeing huge increases in deaths and hospitalizations in low vaccinated states comparable to numbers we saw last winter or will there just be a small bump up this time. Also states that have good to great vaccination numbers are they going to mirror what happened in the UK with high case counts still but with most of the vulnerable vaccinated, the deaths and hospitalizations are nothing close to the winter numbers or are they going to be in trouble too? Going to be interesting to watch.

    The cases are going to go up and up in the next couple of weeks. I am curious how the US media of state governors handle it since we are in a unique situation where most that want to be vaccinated are. 

    I expected that July 4th would be a test/ inflection point for us, and here we are.

    Lifting the mask mandate -- well, it was obvious what would happen: people who were vaccinated and who had been cautious continued to mask, those who were anti-mask stopped masking. Where I live, nearly everyone is vaccinated, but we still have people masking outdoors.

    We've traveled some recently. Despite the mask mandates for public transportation, I'd say easily 35% of people in the Denver airport were not masked/ were wearing chin diapers.

    I took the government lifting of the mask mandate to mean: "You're adults. We've told you, if you're vaccinated, you're protected. If you're not, you're not." Unfortunately the delta variant might change that.

    I live in San Diego, where overall vaccination rates are great. But the number of cases went up more than 80% in the last week. Quoting now from the weekly update from the county:

    <<The rise in cases and hospitalizations is occurring primarily in San Diegans who are not vaccinated. These individuals are also being disproportionately impacted by the Alpha, Gamma and Delta COVID-19 variants of concern.

    “The best protection we have against COVID-19 is getting vaccinated,” said Wilma Wooten, M.D., M.P.H., County public health officer. “The vaccines are extremely effective at preventing serious illness from COVID-19. If you have not gotten immunized, do it now.”

    There has also been a very slight increase in post-vaccination infections, meaning people got infected with COVID-19 even though they were fully vaccinated.

    Wooten said that was expected and that breakthrough cases typically have mild symptoms.

    “This does not mean the vaccine is not working. Quite the opposite, the vaccine is doing what it’s supposed to do: keep most people from being hospitalized, or worse, dying,” Wooten said.>>

     

    That is interesting. I flew to and from Denver a couple of weeks ago and while there were a few people without them, the only ones I noticed that weren't wearing them in large numbers were the ones eating or drinking. 
  • curmudgeonesscurmudgeoness Brigadoon, foodie capitalPosts: 2,657


    We've traveled some recently. Despite the mask mandates for public transportation, I'd say easily 35% of people in the Denver airport were not masked/ were wearing chin diapers.


    That is interesting. I flew to and from Denver a couple of weeks ago and while there were a few people without them, the only ones I noticed that weren't wearing them in large numbers were the ones eating or drinking. 

    We were there about four weeks ago, and there were people at baggage claim, yelling at airline employees, on the train, running through terminals, without masks. It was jarring, since the compliance rate in the SD airport has been over 99%, as it was in the only other airport I've been in this year (Boston). 
    All those who seek to destroy the liberties of a democratic nation ought to know that war is the surest and shortest means to accomplish it.
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 28,310
    I hope the unvaccinated at least have their wills and insurance policies up to date. From the NYT email blast:

    View in browser|nytimes.com

     
    July 22, 2021

      By David Leonhardt


    Good morning. Covid is a terrible health crisis. It’s not the country’s only health crisis.




     

    Planting flags at the Washington Monument to honor victims of the pandemic.Anna Moneymaker for The New York Times

    No modern precedent

    Covid-19 has caused the largest decline in U.S. life expectancy since World War II, the federal government reported yesterday. But Covid is not the only reason that life expectancy in this country fell last year to its lowest level in almost two decades.
    Even before the pandemic, the U.S. was mired in an alarming period of rising mortality. It had no modern precedent: During the second half of the 2010s, life expectancy fell on a sustained basis for the first time since the fighting of World War II killed several hundred thousand Americans.

     

    By The New York Times | Source: Centers for Disease Control and Prevention

    Deaths of despair

    It’s hard to imagine a more alarming sign of a society’s well-being than an inability to keep its citizens alive. While some of the reasons are mysterious, others are fairly clear. American society has become far more unequal than it used to be, and the recent increases in mortality are concentrated among working-class Americans, especially those without a four-year college degree.
    For many, daily life lacks the structure, status and meaning that it once had, as the Princeton University economists Anne Case and Angus Deaton have explained. Many people feel less of a connection to an employer, a labor union, a church or community groups. They are less likely to be married. They are more likely to endure chronic pain and to report being unhappy.

    These trends have led to a surge of “deaths of despair” (a phrase that Case and Deaton coined), from drugs, alcohol and suicide. Other health problems, including diabetes and strokes, have also surged among the working class. Notably, the class gaps in life expectancy seem to be starker in the U.S. than in most other rich countries.
     

    By The New York Times | Source: Centers for Disease Control and Prevention


    Covid, of course, has aggravated the country’s health inequalities. Working-class Americans were more likely to contract severe versions of Covid last year, for a mix of reasons. Many could not work from home. Others received lower-quality medical care after getting sick.
    Since vaccines became widely available this year, working-class people have been less likely to get a shot. At first, vaccine access was playing a major role. Today, vaccine skepticism is the dominant explanation. (All of which suggests that Covid will continue to exacerbate health disparities beyond 2020; yesterday’s report on life expectancy did not include data for 2021.)

    Race and sex
    Covid has also caused sharp increases in racial inequality. As a Times article on the new report explains:

    From 2019 to 2020, Hispanic people experienced the greatest drop in life expectancy — three years — and Black Americans saw a decrease of 2.9 years. White Americans experienced the smallest decline, of 1.2 years.
    I exchanged emails with Case and Deaton yesterday, and they pointed out that racial patterns contain some nuances. Hispanic Americans live longer on average than non-Hispanic Americans, both Black and white — yet the impact of Covid was worst among Hispanics. “This is not simply a story of existing inequalities just getting worse,” Case and Deaton wrote.

    The fact that many Hispanic people work in frontline jobs that exposed them to the virus surely plays a role. But Black workers also tend to hold these jobs. It’s unclear exactly why Covid has hit Hispanic communities somewhat harder than Black communities (and would be a worthy subject for academic research).
    Covid has also killed more men than women, Case and Deaton pointed out, increasing the mortality gap between the sexes, after years in which it had mostly been shrinking. Life expectancy was 5.7 years longer for women last year, up from 5.1 years in 2019. The gap had fallen to a low of 4.8 years in the early 2010s.

    The bottom line: Covid has both worsened and exposed a crisis in health inequality. But that crisis existed before Covid and will continue to exist when the pandemic is over.



    Deeply reported journalism needs your support.
    The Times relies on subscribers to help fund our mission. Subscribe now with this special offer.



    THE LATEST NEWS
    Biden Town Hall

    • President Biden predicted at a CNN event in Ohio that the F.D.A. would fully approve Covid vaccines by the fall, and that young children would become eligible “soon.”
    • Biden said there was “no reason to protect” the Senate filibuster except that a fight over it would “throw the entire Congress into chaos.”
    • When asked about Republicans who call Democrats anti-police, Biden said, “They’re lying.”

    The Virus

     

    London on Monday, when the government lifted most restrictions in England.Tom Jamieson for The New York Times

    • Countries will probably have to learn to live with Covid, measuring its toll through deaths and severe illness rather than through infections.
    • Some U.S. health care workers have refused to get vaccinated. More hospitals are requiring them to.
    • “I’m sorry, but it’s too late”: A doctor in Alabama spoke to AL.com about the regrets of unvaccinated patients.



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  • JeBurkhardtJeBurkhardt Posts: 1,082


    We've traveled some recently. Despite the mask mandates for public transportation, I'd say easily 35% of people in the Denver airport were not masked/ were wearing chin diapers.


    That is interesting. I flew to and from Denver a couple of weeks ago and while there were a few people without them, the only ones I noticed that weren't wearing them in large numbers were the ones eating or drinking. 

    We were there about four weeks ago, and there were people at baggage claim, yelling at airline employees, on the train, running through terminals, without masks. It was jarring, since the compliance rate in the SD airport has been over 99%, as it was in the only other airport I've been in this year (Boston). 
    I flew through St Louis to get to Denver, and there were more non mask wearing people in St Louis from what I saw. It actually surprised me how many in Denver were wearing them based on what I had seen in St Louis. Each region seems to have their own levels of compliance, even though the rules (or maybe just the recommendations at this point) for public transportation are supposed to be somewhat uniform. I took a shuttle bus from Colorado Springs to Denver to get to the airport and masks were required. The driver had to remind a couple of people that they needed them to board the bus.
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 28,310
    Its not a tweet from #vaccinesuck but it might have come from a space laser:

    Prognosis

    Covid Still Killing Americans Faster Than Guns, Cars and Flu Combined

    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

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  • tishtish taking the looooooong way,...Posts: 3,588
    mrussel1 said:
    Poncier said:
    Based on recent evidence, this definitely seems to be mis, or is it dis, informaiton.  Oh well, I am sure the CNN's and MSNBC's, as well as all the "fact-checkers" on this board will be all over it this morning...


    95% or more who get vaccinated don't get Covid (here in MA the number of break through infections since vaccine distribution started is at 0.1% of the vaccinated population), so sure its not an absolute what he said, but its pretty accurate, and the vaccines were never said to have tested to 100% efficacy, Pfizer & Moderna in the 95% range, J&J at about 65%, but all were found to prevent basically 100% of death and close to 100% of hospitalization/severe illness.

    ... and they were hoping to develop a vaccine that would be 50% effective. So even the J&J results exceeded expectations. Remember that the annual flu shot generally has 40-50% effectiveness.

    I've read the paper that was discussed in the New York Times two days ago, and I watched an interview with Dr. Fauci in which he was asked about the paper (not yet peer-reviewed) and its results. He said that the results were based on lab tests, not on real-world cases, so while they are keeping the paper and its results in mind, they need more real-world data before they decide if boosters are needed.

    That said, one of my kids got the J&J shot and I've encouraged him to resume masking in indoor situations.

    There will be breakthrough cases. There is no perfect vaccine. But as they keep saying, the vaccines ARE nearly perfect when it comes to preventing hospitalization and death. I don't know why this is so hard to understand, although I tend to blame the poor state of science education in our schools for at least part of it.

    I have a child that got the J&J and my wife did as well.  The other two and I got the Phizer.  I haven't pushed them to get the second J or a Phizer yet.  J&J says their trials show it is effective and as you say, the one that showed diminished efficacy is not yet peer reviewed.  Have you heard about any reason not to get the single phizer or moderna as a boost? 


    I haven't heard any reasons not to and have read reasons to do a second dose include greater efficacy against delta.

    The article continues with how hep A vaccines mixed and matched.
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 22,043
    All righty.. here's today's talking points.  Nice strawman.  Pretty sure there's no laws on the books nor pending to make the vaccine mandatory, but keep that in the talking points to be safe.

    https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/564319-house-gop-leaders-sav-vaccine-works-but-shouldn't-be-mandated
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 28,310
    mrussel1 said:
    All righty.. here's today's talking points.  Nice strawman.  Pretty sure there's no laws on the books nor pending to make the vaccine mandatory, but keep that in the talking points to be safe.

    https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/564319-house-gop-leaders-sav-vaccine-works-but-shouldn't-be-mandated
    Gotta go, there's some rough knocking on my door.
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

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  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 22,043
    edited July 22
    mrussel1 said:
    All righty.. here's today's talking points.  Nice strawman.  Pretty sure there's no laws on the books nor pending to make the vaccine mandatory, but keep that in the talking points to be safe.

    https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/564319-house-gop-leaders-sav-vaccine-works-but-shouldn't-be-mandated
    Gotta go, there's some rough knocking on my door.
    Those aren't knocks, those are the jackboots on your porch. 
  • Merkin BallerMerkin Baller Posts: 5,776
    mrussel1 said:
    All righty.. here's today's talking points.  Nice strawman.  Pretty sure there's no laws on the books nor pending to make the vaccine mandatory, but keep that in the talking points to be safe.

    https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/564319-house-gop-leaders-sav-vaccine-works-but-shouldn't-be-mandated
    Gotta go, there's some rough knocking on my door.
    Hide your bibles & guns, just to be safe. 

  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 28,310
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    All righty.. here's today's talking points.  Nice strawman.  Pretty sure there's no laws on the books nor pending to make the vaccine mandatory, but keep that in the talking points to be safe.

    https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/564319-house-gop-leaders-sav-vaccine-works-but-shouldn't-be-mandated
    Gotta go, there's some rough knocking on my door.
    Those aren't knocks, those are the jackboots on your porch. 
    I peeked out the window and I think I saw Hillary and Obama, maybe Nancy and Joe too but I thought they were in DC? I'm looking for my counterfeit covid vaccination card before I open the door. They ain't jabbing me!
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

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  • static111static111 Posts: 2,547
    mrussel1 said:
    All righty.. here's today's talking points.  Nice strawman.  Pretty sure there's no laws on the books nor pending to make the vaccine mandatory, but keep that in the talking points to be safe.

    https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/564319-house-gop-leaders-sav-vaccine-works-but-shouldn't-be-mandated
    Personally I wish they would mandate it.  This is all just crazy.  It’s not just Trumpers refusing the vaccine.  It’s people from all walks of life and political persuasions.   The deep distrust of our government and media that have been on the decline for years has made it hard for a lot of people to accept the truth even if it is spelled out for them.  This isn’t trumps fault, this isn’t even the individuals fault, it is a fault of our society getting to the place where there is so much distrust in public institutions on top of the plethora of misinformation that looks to most people like a verified source.  

    I’m not blaming anyone that doesn’t get the vaccine for anything that happens, this is a societal problem, the fact that enough people have lost trust in one another and their public servants to seriously believe that this isn’t a substantial public health crisis is just sad. 

     I don’t know what to do, but down talking and finger pointing and fact checking these people to death will not change anything.  Based on the data most unvaccinated people still make it through ok without serious long term effects or death,  that is what most unvaxxed latch onto.   How do you counter message that? By calling them selfish assholes?   Sorry but that isn’t going to change hearts and minds.  Mandate the vaccine, or I guess people need to just get over it, because nothing is going to change if it hasn’t by now.
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 27,687
    What a hot mess this thread has become! I wish people would stop the 'blame' game regarding who said what. Please get vaccinated, and if you are not vaccinated - mask up!
    Masking up only helps if you have it and from spreading it.  It isn't helping you to prevent from getting it.

    Unless they changed something?
  • CM189191CM189191 Minneapolis via ChicagoPosts: 6,268
    What a hot mess this thread has become! I wish people would stop the 'blame' game regarding who said what. Please get vaccinated, and if you are not vaccinated - mask up!
    Masking up only helps if you have it and from spreading it.  It isn't helping you to prevent from getting it.

    Unless they changed something?


    Yes, wearing a mask does help you from getting CV19


    If you have an N95 mask that's even better


    WI 6/27/98 WI 10/8/00 MO 10/11/00 IL 4/23/03 MN 6/26/06 MN 6/27/06 WI 6/30/06 IL 8/5/07 IL 8/21/08 (EV) IL 8/22/08 (EV) IL 8/23/09 IL 8/24/09 IN 5/7/10 IL 6/28/11 (EV) IL 6/29/11 (EV) WI 9/3/11 WI 9/4/11 IL 7/19/13 NE 10/09/14 IL 10/17/14 MN 10/19/14 FL 4/11/16 IL 8/20/16 IL 8/22/16 IL 08/18/18 IL 08/20/18 IT 07/05/2020 AT 07/07/2020
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 22,043
    static111 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    All righty.. here's today's talking points.  Nice strawman.  Pretty sure there's no laws on the books nor pending to make the vaccine mandatory, but keep that in the talking points to be safe.

    https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/564319-house-gop-leaders-sav-vaccine-works-but-shouldn't-be-mandated
    Personally I wish they would mandate it.  This is all just crazy.  It’s not just Trumpers refusing the vaccine.  It’s people from all walks of life and political persuasions.   The deep distrust of our government and media that have been on the decline for years has made it hard for a lot of people to accept the truth even if it is spelled out for them.  This isn’t trumps fault, this isn’t even the individuals fault, it is a fault of our society getting to the place where there is so much distrust in public institutions on top of the plethora of misinformation that looks to most people like a verified source.  

    I’m not blaming anyone that doesn’t get the vaccine for anything that happens, this is a societal problem, the fact that enough people have lost trust in one another and their public servants to seriously believe that this isn’t a substantial public health crisis is just sad. 

     I don’t know what to do, but down talking and finger pointing and fact checking these people to death will not change anything.  Based on the data most unvaccinated people still make it through ok without serious long term effects or death,  that is what most unvaxxed latch onto.   How do you counter message that? By calling them selfish assholes?   Sorry but that isn’t going to change hearts and minds.  Mandate the vaccine, or I guess people need to just get over it, because nothing is going to change if it hasn’t by now.
    Well there are no vaccines that are mandated by the gov't as a condition of freedom/citizenship.   But as a condition of attending public schools, as an example, I could get behind that.  Certainly there are examples of the gov't (through judges) quarantining or isolating certain people because of risks they pose to the public.  Typhoid Mary is the perfect example of that.  
  • static111static111 Posts: 2,547
    mrussel1 said:
    static111 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    All righty.. here's today's talking points.  Nice strawman.  Pretty sure there's no laws on the books nor pending to make the vaccine mandatory, but keep that in the talking points to be safe.

    https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/564319-house-gop-leaders-sav-vaccine-works-but-shouldn't-be-mandated
    Personally I wish they would mandate it.  This is all just crazy.  It’s not just Trumpers refusing the vaccine.  It’s people from all walks of life and political persuasions.   The deep distrust of our government and media that have been on the decline for years has made it hard for a lot of people to accept the truth even if it is spelled out for them.  This isn’t trumps fault, this isn’t even the individuals fault, it is a fault of our society getting to the place where there is so much distrust in public institutions on top of the plethora of misinformation that looks to most people like a verified source.  

    I’m not blaming anyone that doesn’t get the vaccine for anything that happens, this is a societal problem, the fact that enough people have lost trust in one another and their public servants to seriously believe that this isn’t a substantial public health crisis is just sad. 

     I don’t know what to do, but down talking and finger pointing and fact checking these people to death will not change anything.  Based on the data most unvaccinated people still make it through ok without serious long term effects or death,  that is what most unvaxxed latch onto.   How do you counter message that? By calling them selfish assholes?   Sorry but that isn’t going to change hearts and minds.  Mandate the vaccine, or I guess people need to just get over it, because nothing is going to change if it hasn’t by now.
    Well there are no vaccines that are mandated by the gov't as a condition of freedom/citizenship.   But as a condition of attending public schools, as an example, I could get behind that.  Certainly there are examples of the gov't (through judges) quarantining or isolating certain people because of risks they pose to the public.  Typhoid Mary is the perfect example of that.  
    Thank fuck this isn’t an actual deadly disease.  I realize it is dangerous and has killed millions globally, but I mean like severely deadly.  With the response we are seeing now I’m pretty sure we would be living in a real life adaptation of the Stand.  Sadly it’s gonna take an alarming fatality rate for some people to take this seriously.
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