Cleveland Indians to drop "Indians" from team name after 105 years

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Comments

  • Meltdown99
    Meltdown99 None Of Your Business... Posts: 10,739
    I say Cleveland  “the mistake by the lake” has a nice ring to it...
    Give Peas A Chance…
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    Cleveland Snowflakes, for the butthurt fanbabies crying about the name change.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • Hobbes
    Hobbes Pacific Northwest Posts: 6,438
    Cleveland O'Lakes

    New logo:


  • Poncier
    Poncier Posts: 17,882
    Hobbes said:
    Cleveland O'Lakes

    New logo:


    Ya know, if you fold the side of the butter box just so....
    This weekend we rock Portland
  • cp3iverson
    cp3iverson Posts: 8,702
    When NOLA gave the Hornets name back to Charlotte the “Jazz” name should’ve gone back to NOLA.  

  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,473
    should go with Ravens. i like how the v in both words kind of make it similar. 
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • Merkin Baller
    Merkin Baller Posts: 12,769
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    should go with Ravens. i like how the v in both words kind of make it similar. 
    That would never happen, it would totally alienate Browns fans. 

  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,359
    Poncier said:
    Hobbes said:
    Cleveland O'Lakes

    New logo:


    Ya know, if you fold the side of the butter box just so....
    HAHAHAHAHAAH!!!! My father taught me that!!!!!
  • dankind
    dankind Posts: 20,841
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Poncier said:
    Hobbes said:
    Cleveland O'Lakes

    New logo:


    Ya know, if you fold the side of the butter box just so....
    HAHAHAHAHAAH!!!! My father taught me that!!!!!
    Heard she liked to hang with old Red Dog.


    I SAW PEARL JAM
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,879
    As the most die hard Indians fan that you'll meet (except of course John Adams who lugs the drum into every game), I'm okay with the name changing at this point.  I don't like the Spiders, the Naps, or any of the old names.  I'd go with the Tribe. That would create continuity and the reality is, no fan is ever going to stop saying "Hey, when's the Tribe on tonight?".  They are the Tribe and they play at the Jake.  It's that simple.  
    As an aside, the College of William and Mary changed their name a number of years ago to the Tribe, for the same reason.  Works fine down here. 
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,879
    oh yeah  GO BROWNS!  
  • OnWis97
    OnWis97 St. Paul, MN Posts: 5,610
    mrussel1 said:
    As the most die hard Indians fan that you'll meet (except of course John Adams who lugs the drum into every game), I'm okay with the name changing at this point.  I don't like the Spiders, the Naps, or any of the old names.  I'd go with the Tribe. That would create continuity and the reality is, no fan is ever going to stop saying "Hey, when's the Tribe on tonight?".  They are the Tribe and they play at the Jake.  It's that simple.  
    As an aside, the College of William and Mary changed their name a number of years ago to the Tribe, for the same reason.  Works fine down here. 

    I feel like teams that make this change are going to make a far bigger departure from native names than this. "Tribe" isn't much better than "Indians."  I see some people suggest Washington Warriors and while that's not as grotesque as their previous name, it seems like the smart move it to just move totally away from that and make sure not to be going through this same thing in ten years.
    1995 Milwaukee     1998 Alpine, Alpine     2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston     2004 Boston, Boston     2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty)     2011 Alpine, Alpine     
    2013 Wrigley     2014 St. Paul     2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley     2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley     2021 Asbury Park     2022 St Louis     2023 Austin, Austin
    2024 Napa, Wrigley, Wrigley
  • OnWis97
    OnWis97 St. Paul, MN Posts: 5,610
    mrussel1 said:
    oh yeah  GO BROWNS!  

    Browns fans still interested in December...2020 is a crazy year.
    1995 Milwaukee     1998 Alpine, Alpine     2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston     2004 Boston, Boston     2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty)     2011 Alpine, Alpine     
    2013 Wrigley     2014 St. Paul     2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley     2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley     2021 Asbury Park     2022 St Louis     2023 Austin, Austin
    2024 Napa, Wrigley, Wrigley
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,879
    OnWis97 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    oh yeah  GO BROWNS!  

    Browns fans still interested in December...2020 is a crazy year.
    Yeah, we're usually plotting terrible draft strategies at this point. 
  • MayDay10
    MayDay10 Posts: 11,853
    OnWis97 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    As the most die hard Indians fan that you'll meet (except of course John Adams who lugs the drum into every game), I'm okay with the name changing at this point.  I don't like the Spiders, the Naps, or any of the old names.  I'd go with the Tribe. That would create continuity and the reality is, no fan is ever going to stop saying "Hey, when's the Tribe on tonight?".  They are the Tribe and they play at the Jake.  It's that simple.  
    As an aside, the College of William and Mary changed their name a number of years ago to the Tribe, for the same reason.  Works fine down here. 

    I feel like teams that make this change are going to make a far bigger departure from native names than this. "Tribe" isn't much better than "Indians."  I see some people suggest Washington Warriors and while that's not as grotesque as their previous name, it seems like the smart move it to just move totally away from that and make sure not to be going through this same thing in ten years.
    I agree with this.  "Tribe" still opens the door to all sorts of Native American characterization and such.  If they are doing such a major move as renaming a 120 year old sports team, they are going to make sure they are well out of the crosshairs.
  • bbiggs
    bbiggs Posts: 6,964
    MayDay10 said:
    OnWis97 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    As the most die hard Indians fan that you'll meet (except of course John Adams who lugs the drum into every game), I'm okay with the name changing at this point.  I don't like the Spiders, the Naps, or any of the old names.  I'd go with the Tribe. That would create continuity and the reality is, no fan is ever going to stop saying "Hey, when's the Tribe on tonight?".  They are the Tribe and they play at the Jake.  It's that simple.  
    As an aside, the College of William and Mary changed their name a number of years ago to the Tribe, for the same reason.  Works fine down here. 

    I feel like teams that make this change are going to make a far bigger departure from native names than this. "Tribe" isn't much better than "Indians."  I see some people suggest Washington Warriors and while that's not as grotesque as their previous name, it seems like the smart move it to just move totally away from that and make sure not to be going through this same thing in ten years.
    I agree with this.  "Tribe" still opens the door to all sorts of Native American characterization and such.  If they are doing such a major move as renaming a 120 year old sports team, they are going to make sure they are well out of the crosshairs.
    Would Native Americans take offense to the word "tribe" under any circumstances?  I'm thinking through this and don't see how it could be perceived as offensive or characterizing.  I think it is factual that Native Americans were often times part of tribes that they took great pride in being a part of.  It would seem more of a badge of honor than a negative connotation.  I'm the furthest thing from an expert on Native American history, but much of this we learned at a very young age.  I'm just missing the potential negative fallout from a move like that.

  • Poncier
    Poncier Posts: 17,882
    How about The Strangest Tribe?
    This weekend we rock Portland
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,879
    bbiggs said:
    MayDay10 said:
    OnWis97 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    As the most die hard Indians fan that you'll meet (except of course John Adams who lugs the drum into every game), I'm okay with the name changing at this point.  I don't like the Spiders, the Naps, or any of the old names.  I'd go with the Tribe. That would create continuity and the reality is, no fan is ever going to stop saying "Hey, when's the Tribe on tonight?".  They are the Tribe and they play at the Jake.  It's that simple.  
    As an aside, the College of William and Mary changed their name a number of years ago to the Tribe, for the same reason.  Works fine down here. 

    I feel like teams that make this change are going to make a far bigger departure from native names than this. "Tribe" isn't much better than "Indians."  I see some people suggest Washington Warriors and while that's not as grotesque as their previous name, it seems like the smart move it to just move totally away from that and make sure not to be going through this same thing in ten years.
    I agree with this.  "Tribe" still opens the door to all sorts of Native American characterization and such.  If they are doing such a major move as renaming a 120 year old sports team, they are going to make sure they are well out of the crosshairs.
    Would Native Americans take offense to the word "tribe" under any circumstances?  I'm thinking through this and don't see how it could be perceived as offensive or characterizing.  I think it is factual that Native Americans were often times part of tribes that they took great pride in being a part of.  It would seem more of a badge of honor than a negative connotation.  I'm the furthest thing from an expert on Native American history, but much of this we learned at a very young age.  I'm just missing the potential negative fallout from a move like that.

    This is where I am.  And like I said earlier, I have heard nothing negative about the Tribe down here in Virginia.  My daughter just graduated from William and Mary and it isn't an issue there, and that's not exactly a conservative school. 
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,879
    Poncier said:
    How about The Strangest Tribe?
    Clearly we need to rename our little family here. 
  • OnWis97
    OnWis97 St. Paul, MN Posts: 5,610
    bbiggs said:
    MayDay10 said:
    OnWis97 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    As the most die hard Indians fan that you'll meet (except of course John Adams who lugs the drum into every game), I'm okay with the name changing at this point.  I don't like the Spiders, the Naps, or any of the old names.  I'd go with the Tribe. That would create continuity and the reality is, no fan is ever going to stop saying "Hey, when's the Tribe on tonight?".  They are the Tribe and they play at the Jake.  It's that simple.  
    As an aside, the College of William and Mary changed their name a number of years ago to the Tribe, for the same reason.  Works fine down here. 

    I feel like teams that make this change are going to make a far bigger departure from native names than this. "Tribe" isn't much better than "Indians."  I see some people suggest Washington Warriors and while that's not as grotesque as their previous name, it seems like the smart move it to just move totally away from that and make sure not to be going through this same thing in ten years.
    I agree with this.  "Tribe" still opens the door to all sorts of Native American characterization and such.  If they are doing such a major move as renaming a 120 year old sports team, they are going to make sure they are well out of the crosshairs.
    Would Native Americans take offense to the word "tribe" under any circumstances?  I'm thinking through this and don't see how it could be perceived as offensive or characterizing.  I think it is factual that Native Americans were often times part of tribes that they took great pride in being a part of.  It would seem more of a badge of honor than a negative connotation.  I'm the furthest thing from an expert on Native American history, but much of this we learned at a very young age.  I'm just missing the potential negative fallout from a move like that.

    I can't speak for how much offense anyone would take.  But I think part of the problem is that the history of Native American naming of teams is full not only of bad names but bad imagery; all the stuff that was portrayed in cartoons, etc, feathers, weaponry, caricatures. It's difficult for me to articulate this, but it really makes it seem like Native Americans were a bit of a novelty to white America; almost "semi-human." It can be racist even if it's not hate.

    People sometimes called the Indians the "Tribe" already ("Go Tribe!") and even that seemed a little gross to me. These names was never meant to "honor" anyone as much as they were to "mascotize" them. A move like this would be seen by some almost as a willful defiance of "PC culture" at worst or clinging to something not worth clinging to, at best. Meanwhile, in Atlanta they're playing drums and making a tomahawk motion with their arms* and Cleveland would be clinging to their "heritage." "Tribe" would probably have to come with some other meaning of the word (kind of like the Warriors did about 20 years ago with that robo-dude logo.The Peoria Chiefs went from native imageryl to a dalmatian firefighter (i.e., "Fire Chief"), which was probably an OK solution for a minor league team but would seem really odd in the big leagues (and we'd be hearing about how "PC" it is until we die). I think "the Tribe" would have the same problem they have today, which is almost no imagery to use.

    And "badge of honor" is a really tough sell because, again, the history is difficult to overcome.  I think the upgrade in "honor" from Indians to Tribe is negligible.

    As I see it, the team had the following choices:
    • Continue to be the Indians and have almost no imagery.
    • Continue to be the Indians and make a very large-scale outreach effort to work with Ohio tribes (or some other group) on imagery.
    • Make a clean break. If they're not going to keep the name, I just don't see the concept of being "native" as worth fighting for.

    (As an aside, MLB doesn't have any singular names and this would seem a little 1990s NBA/NHL expansion for a league built on tradition.)

    1995 Milwaukee     1998 Alpine, Alpine     2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston     2004 Boston, Boston     2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty)     2011 Alpine, Alpine     
    2013 Wrigley     2014 St. Paul     2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley     2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley     2021 Asbury Park     2022 St Louis     2023 Austin, Austin
    2024 Napa, Wrigley, Wrigley

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