When the vaccine arrives

PJPOWER said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJPOWER said:

lastexit78 said:

PJPOWER said:

lastexit78 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

lastexit78 said:

The fact that this is even a debatable topic says everything you need to know about why we are where we are at. These vaccines have been injected in hundreds of thousands of people already with virtually zero side effects. Also vaccine side effects don’t randomly show up years later, that’s a fallacy that some will use to ague their anti vaccine stance. Tragically and I guess in a sick way thankfully we are likely approaching 100 million cases. CDC thinks we’ve captured 1/8 of cases which based on most other studies I’ve read is probably fairly accurate. By the time a vaccine gets to most of us we’ll likely be approaching 40% herd immunity. So if even half of the other say 200 million who haven’t been infected took the vaccine we’d probably be in the 70% range. With the other 30% continuing to get naturally infected at a much smaller rate for the next few years. At that point it comes down to length of immunity, so far reinfections are rare and most scientists seem to believe immunity is at least a year. Bottom line, not taking the vaccine just delays any sort of recovery, either by months or potentially years. I hope by the middle of next year we can start sorting new infections by vaccine or non vaccine. That might be the only way some people get a clue, when 90% of new infections are from the unvaccinated maybe the message will hit home. Especially if people are still dying at a decent clip.






Do you have sources to back up these statements?
(And, I'm not an anti-vaxxxer, just want to learn more as I don't trust the greedy fuckers nor the politicians.  (Aren't they the same?))

I’m not going to claim to be an expert, I’ve just researched and listened to a lot of scientist over the past 9 months, probably not unlike most of you. Bottom line is vaccine side effects are very likely to be minor. Pretty much as an above mentioned NBC article talks about. As for herd immunity we are not close, but at 150k plus confirmed cases a day we are likely steamrolling towards it faster than Sweden. Which is hard to fathom based on the differences in our responses. If anyone uses twitter and is looking for a good scientific based information source check out Dr. Faheem Younus. There’s a lot of doctors reporting from the front lines but I think he’s maybe the best. You can find stuff from him and other doctors all over the internet. Even Fauci who has made some honest mistakes is a reliable source for common sense measures, there’s a ton of his interviews all over the place. I try to stay away from the mainstream media in most cases as they are manipulating data to serve their own narrative. Just do an internet search for unbiased COVID news and seek out the ones you think are the most legitimate. I have a bunch bookmarked but you can decide for yourself where the legit facts can be found. Watching CNN or god forbid Fox News is not going to get you anything but sensationalism. They are going to scare you with rare reinfections cases, or the handful of children who have died. Or in the case of Fox News try and tell you it’s a hoax and everything is fine. I’m exaggerating but you get my point. 

Dr. Faheem Younus
https://mobile.twitter.com/faheemyounus?lang=en

Also an extensive vaccine side effect run down from the CDC 
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/side-effects.htm

Something doesn’t sit well for me with that line...”handful of children”?  I sure hope no one creating vaccines throws out lines like that.  “Meh, it’s only going to effect a handful of children”.  Some impacts should never be minimized (in my opinion).

More than a “handful of children” are going to be permanently scarred for life if this thing drags on for another year plus. My son hasn’t seen most of his his friends or been to school since March. Overall he’s doing well but I see issues like childhood obesity escalating out of control. Not to mention the psychological damage to so many, including teens who are missing out on the defining moments of their life. In regards to vaccines children would be the last to receive it and I would certainly make sure there was no adverse side effects before letting my son get injected. There are 7 plus billion people on this planet, most every action we do on a daily basis could have some negative outcome. It’s why we have seat belts, the FAA, MRI scanning machines, GFI outlets, etc, etc. We are fragile beings with a limited life cycle, dangers lurk around every corner. But we’ve managed to reduce most to a manageable level through science and innovation. Vaccines have literally saved millions of lives over the past century and yet somehow this is a real debate in this country. 

You hit the nail about my concerns regarding children as well.  One thing I’ve been concerned with is emotional development for the infants that are in daycare.  Facial expressions are so important in infant emotional development and they are not getting that with daycare workers wearing masks.  The longer this stuff drags on, the more emotional dev delays and probably are bound to become apparent.  So many ripples that will last for generations...

interesting you say this. My wife works in child care and she's very concerned about this as well. 

It’s a major thing, but I fear it’s getting overlooked in most daycares.  I don’t know what the right answer is, but sacrificing emotional development is it.  It can lead to all kinds of developmental disorders down the road.

PJPOWER said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJPOWER said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJPOWER said:

lastexit78 said:

PJPOWER said:

lastexit78 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

lastexit78 said:

The fact that this is even a debatable topic says everything you need to know about why we are where we are at. These vaccines have been injected in hundreds of thousands of people already with virtually zero side effects. Also vaccine side effects don’t randomly show up years later, that’s a fallacy that some will use to ague their anti vaccine stance. Tragically and I guess in a sick way thankfully we are likely approaching 100 million cases. CDC thinks we’ve captured 1/8 of cases which based on most other studies I’ve read is probably fairly accurate. By the time a vaccine gets to most of us we’ll likely be approaching 40% herd immunity. So if even half of the other say 200 million who haven’t been infected took the vaccine we’d probably be in the 70% range. With the other 30% continuing to get naturally infected at a much smaller rate for the next few years. At that point it comes down to length of immunity, so far reinfections are rare and most scientists seem to believe immunity is at least a year. Bottom line, not taking the vaccine just delays any sort of recovery, either by months or potentially years. I hope by the middle of next year we can start sorting new infections by vaccine or non vaccine. That might be the only way some people get a clue, when 90% of new infections are from the unvaccinated maybe the message will hit home. Especially if people are still dying at a decent clip.






Do you have sources to back up these statements?
(And, I'm not an anti-vaxxxer, just want to learn more as I don't trust the greedy fuckers nor the politicians.  (Aren't they the same?))

I’m not going to claim to be an expert, I’ve just researched and listened to a lot of scientist over the past 9 months, probably not unlike most of you. Bottom line is vaccine side effects are very likely to be minor. Pretty much as an above mentioned NBC article talks about. As for herd immunity we are not close, but at 150k plus confirmed cases a day we are likely steamrolling towards it faster than Sweden. Which is hard to fathom based on the differences in our responses. If anyone uses twitter and is looking for a good scientific based information source check out Dr. Faheem Younus. There’s a lot of doctors reporting from the front lines but I think he’s maybe the best. You can find stuff from him and other doctors all over the internet. Even Fauci who has made some honest mistakes is a reliable source for common sense measures, there’s a ton of his interviews all over the place. I try to stay away from the mainstream media in most cases as they are manipulating data to serve their own narrative. Just do an internet search for unbiased COVID news and seek out the ones you think are the most legitimate. I have a bunch bookmarked but you can decide for yourself where the legit facts can be found. Watching CNN or god forbid Fox News is not going to get you anything but sensationalism. They are going to scare you with rare reinfections cases, or the handful of children who have died. Or in the case of Fox News try and tell you it’s a hoax and everything is fine. I’m exaggerating but you get my point. 

Dr. Faheem Younus
https://mobile.twitter.com/faheemyounus?lang=en

Also an extensive vaccine side effect run down from the CDC 
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/side-effects.htm

Something doesn’t sit well for me with that line...”handful of children”?  I sure hope no one creating vaccines throws out lines like that.  “Meh, it’s only going to effect a handful of children”.  Some impacts should never be minimized (in my opinion).

More than a “handful of children” are going to be permanently scarred for life if this thing drags on for another year plus. My son hasn’t seen most of his his friends or been to school since March. Overall he’s doing well but I see issues like childhood obesity escalating out of control. Not to mention the psychological damage to so many, including teens who are missing out on the defining moments of their life. In regards to vaccines children would be the last to receive it and I would certainly make sure there was no adverse side effects before letting my son get injected. There are 7 plus billion people on this planet, most every action we do on a daily basis could have some negative outcome. It’s why we have seat belts, the FAA, MRI scanning machines, GFI outlets, etc, etc. We are fragile beings with a limited life cycle, dangers lurk around every corner. But we’ve managed to reduce most to a manageable level through science and innovation. Vaccines have literally saved millions of lives over the past century and yet somehow this is a real debate in this country. 

You hit the nail about my concerns regarding children as well.  One thing I’ve been concerned with is emotional development for the infants that are in daycare.  Facial expressions are so important in infant emotional development and they are not getting that with daycare workers wearing masks.  The longer this stuff drags on, the more emotional dev delays and probably are bound to become apparent.  So many ripples that will last for generations...

interesting you say this. My wife works in child care and she's very concerned about this as well. 

It’s a major thing, but I fear it’s getting overlooked in most daycares.  I don’t know what the right answer is, but sacrificing emotional development is it.  It can lead to all kinds of developmental disorders down the road.

the last 8 months have been incredibly difficult for my wife, and i'm sure for most early childhood educators. she's so used to hugging children, loving babies, smiling through their tears; my wife is known for "spreading joy" and she feels as if she's ineffective at that with a mask on. she's a director now but she still deals with the kids a lot. as you said, she knows the impact a smile has on young kids; that's their language to a large degree: non-verbal. a smile makes them light up and helps them, as you also said, in their development; to know empathy, love, compassion, etc. she sees their fear and hesitancy not being able to see the whole face. 

my wife has absolutely loved her profession since day 1. she literally hates it right now. as i can imagine how anyone in a soft role feels; teachers, nurses, doctors, therapists, etc. 

Tons of respect for your wife and others trying to look out for the well-being of the children.  This is absolutely hitting everyone in one way or another.  Just found out that my uncle that has been intubated for the past 5 days coded (heart stopped) last night.  They were able to bring him back, but things aren’t looking good.  
Tell your wife to continue spreading joy...there is definitely a lack of that these days.  I don’t know her, but appreciate her none the less

hedonist said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

oftenreading said:

Britain signals that refusal to get vaccinated may mean inability to access restaurants, bars, sports venues and the like.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/uk-vaccine-covid-19-restaurants-bars-blocked-1.5822648

i have no issue with this. i mean, we're already there with masks, the comparisons to nazi germany are nutso. 

🙄

Whether or not you’re referring to my “nutso” comment in one of these threads...I simply want to know how it would be enforced. Just can’t seem to get the dope on that!

PJPOWER said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

hedonist said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

oftenreading said:

Britain signals that refusal to get vaccinated may mean inability to access restaurants, bars, sports venues and the like.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/uk-vaccine-covid-19-restaurants-bars-blocked-1.5822648

i have no issue with this. i mean, we're already there with masks, the comparisons to nazi germany are nutso. 

🙄

Whether or not you’re referring to my “nutso” comment in one of these threads...I simply want to know how it would be enforced. Just can’t seem to get the dope on that!

if you're issued a card of some kind, like a medical card, or there's a database that's attached to your identification, maybe something as simple as a bracelet. maybe we could brand people. lol

i can't imagine that would fly in the states anyway. people would cry discrimination and freedom and government tracking, etc. i don't even know if it will fly here. it may not have to as long as we hit herd immunity efficiently enough. but that may not happen with all the anti-vaxxers coupled with those that are simply untrusting of this particular vaccine. 

I vote a “scarlet letter” type of shirt for people, ha.  I do not support exposing individuals medical data to the public without their consent.  That’s a slippery slope I’m not willing to ride.  Something about “giving up a lot of freedom for a little security” is where my mind travels.

PJPOWER said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJPOWER said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

hedonist said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

oftenreading said:

Britain signals that refusal to get vaccinated may mean inability to access restaurants, bars, sports venues and the like.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/uk-vaccine-covid-19-restaurants-bars-blocked-1.5822648

i have no issue with this. i mean, we're already there with masks, the comparisons to nazi germany are nutso. 

🙄

Whether or not you’re referring to my “nutso” comment in one of these threads...I simply want to know how it would be enforced. Just can’t seem to get the dope on that!

if you're issued a card of some kind, like a medical card, or there's a database that's attached to your identification, maybe something as simple as a bracelet. maybe we could brand people. lol

i can't imagine that would fly in the states anyway. people would cry discrimination and freedom and government tracking, etc. i don't even know if it will fly here. it may not have to as long as we hit herd immunity efficiently enough. but that may not happen with all the anti-vaxxers coupled with those that are simply untrusting of this particular vaccine. 

I vote a “scarlet letter” type of shirt for people, ha.  I do not support exposing individuals medical data to the public without their consent.  That’s a slippery slope I’m not willing to ride.  Something about “giving up a lot of freedom for a little security” is where my mind travels.

yeah, this situation is causing a lot of uncomfortable conversations to be had, for sure. I'm the type that doesn't really care who knows what about me, but I also understand a lot of people aren't this way, and that's their right. 

but what do you do if herd immunity isn't reached, which is actually quite likely in the US?

I really hate to say it, but I think we are going to just have to “ride it out” in the US.  We are going to have to live with death and despair until treatments and vaccines curb things.  I don’t think the US could mandate these “scarlet letters” even if they tried.  I am not excited about riding this out, but I think it’s what realistically is going to happen.  This is already to the point that nearly everyone has a friend or family members affected, and I have witnessed even the most stern anti-maskers coming around to wearing them after losing loved ones to this, so eyes are opening.  Thinking about it, the last thing the government needs to do is enforce strict laws or encroach on individual freedom, as it will just lead to dangerous pushback in the from those that are still anti-mask or anti-government overreach in the form of mass gatherings and traveling to attend protests.  I hate to say it, but they will come around eventually...or they won’t be around to do so.
I’m okay with people publicly shaming people that aren’t being careful at this point, though.  

PJPOWER said:

mickeyrat said:

PJPOWER said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJPOWER said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

hedonist said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

oftenreading said:

Britain signals that refusal to get vaccinated may mean inability to access restaurants, bars, sports venues and the like.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/uk-vaccine-covid-19-restaurants-bars-blocked-1.5822648

i have no issue with this. i mean, we're already there with masks, the comparisons to nazi germany are nutso. 

🙄

Whether or not you’re referring to my “nutso” comment in one of these threads...I simply want to know how it would be enforced. Just can’t seem to get the dope on that!

if you're issued a card of some kind, like a medical card, or there's a database that's attached to your identification, maybe something as simple as a bracelet. maybe we could brand people. lol

i can't imagine that would fly in the states anyway. people would cry discrimination and freedom and government tracking, etc. i don't even know if it will fly here. it may not have to as long as we hit herd immunity efficiently enough. but that may not happen with all the anti-vaxxers coupled with those that are simply untrusting of this particular vaccine. 

I vote a “scarlet letter” type of shirt for people, ha.  I do not support exposing individuals medical data to the public without their consent.  That’s a slippery slope I’m not willing to ride.  Something about “giving up a lot of freedom for a little security” is where my mind travels.

yeah, this situation is causing a lot of uncomfortable conversations to be had, for sure. I'm the type that doesn't really care who knows what about me, but I also understand a lot of people aren't this way, and that's their right. 

but what do you do if herd immunity isn't reached, which is actually quite likely in the US?

I really hate to say it, but I think we are going to just have to “ride it out” in the US.  We are going to have to live with death and despair until treatments and vaccines curb things.  I don’t think the US could mandate these “scarlet letters” even if they tried.  I am not excited about riding this out, but I think it’s what realistically is going to happen.  This is already to the point that nearly everyone has a friend or family members affected, and I have witnessed even the most stern anti-maskers coming around to wearing them after losing loved ones to this, so eyes are opening.  Thinking about it, the last thing the government needs to do is enforce strict laws or encroach on individual freedom, as it will just lead to dangerous pushback in the from those that are still anti-mask or anti-government overreach in the form of mass gatherings and traveling to attend protests.  I hate to say it, but they will come around eventually...or they won’t be around to do so.
I’m okay with people publicly shaming people that aren’t being careful at this point, though.  

there are those that wont give a fuck anyway. legion

I then should have the absolute right to defend myself within the legal limits.

No argument from me there.

dankind said:

PJPOWER said:

mickeyrat said:

PJPOWER said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJPOWER said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

hedonist said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

oftenreading said:

Britain signals that refusal to get vaccinated may mean inability to access restaurants, bars, sports venues and the like.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/uk-vaccine-covid-19-restaurants-bars-blocked-1.5822648

i have no issue with this. i mean, we're already there with masks, the comparisons to nazi germany are nutso. 

🙄

Whether or not you’re referring to my “nutso” comment in one of these threads...I simply want to know how it would be enforced. Just can’t seem to get the dope on that!

if you're issued a card of some kind, like a medical card, or there's a database that's attached to your identification, maybe something as simple as a bracelet. maybe we could brand people. lol

i can't imagine that would fly in the states anyway. people would cry discrimination and freedom and government tracking, etc. i don't even know if it will fly here. it may not have to as long as we hit herd immunity efficiently enough. but that may not happen with all the anti-vaxxers coupled with those that are simply untrusting of this particular vaccine. 

I vote a “scarlet letter” type of shirt for people, ha.  I do not support exposing individuals medical data to the public without their consent.  That’s a slippery slope I’m not willing to ride.  Something about “giving up a lot of freedom for a little security” is where my mind travels.

yeah, this situation is causing a lot of uncomfortable conversations to be had, for sure. I'm the type that doesn't really care who knows what about me, but I also understand a lot of people aren't this way, and that's their right. 

but what do you do if herd immunity isn't reached, which is actually quite likely in the US?

I really hate to say it, but I think we are going to just have to “ride it out” in the US.  We are going to have to live with death and despair until treatments and vaccines curb things.  I don’t think the US could mandate these “scarlet letters” even if they tried.  I am not excited about riding this out, but I think it’s what realistically is going to happen.  This is already to the point that nearly everyone has a friend or family members affected, and I have witnessed even the most stern anti-maskers coming around to wearing them after losing loved ones to this, so eyes are opening.  Thinking about it, the last thing the government needs to do is enforce strict laws or encroach on individual freedom, as it will just lead to dangerous pushback in the from those that are still anti-mask or anti-government overreach in the form of mass gatherings and traveling to attend protests.  I hate to say it, but they will come around eventually...or they won’t be around to do so.
I’m okay with people publicly shaming people that aren’t being careful at this point, though.  

there are those that wont give a fuck anyway. legion

I then should have the absolute right to defend myself within the legal limits.

No argument from me there.

My driver's license says that I'm an organ donor (medical info). Seems it would be just as simple to add whether or not I've been innoculated against Covid-19. And then a place of business could use that to permit entry, commerce, etc.

That does not hinder my freedom as an individual. 

None of us are free to eat in a restaurant, shop in a store, travel, attend a sporting event or concert, or work at our jobs; we are permitted to do these things because we pay for them and/or follow the rules that allow us do so. We don't smoke, we don't harass other patrons/staff/coworkers, we adhere to any dress codes and bag limits, etc. If we break the rules, we are ejected. Simple.

If someone needs to do a quick scan of my ID to verify that I've received the vaccine for a while so that I can once again enjoy the things I used to enjoy, I don't see that as having anything to do with my personal freedom. In fact, I see not enforcing such a new rule as a limitation of my individual freedom because I'm not going anywhere until I know it's safe to do so. And if I'm not reasonably assured that the people around me have been vaccinated, then I'm restricted to my home because of a bunch of knuckle-dragging goons' misguided notions of individual freedom.