When the vaccine arrives

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  • PJPOWERPJPOWER Posts: 6,499
    maybe restaurants will start dividing into "vaccinated section" and a "non-vaccinated section" like we used to have for smoking. LOL. 
    Haha, that would actually be hilarious!  “All you sick mutha fuckas get in that line”.
  • lastexit78lastexit78 Posts: 618
    edited December 2020
    I have a gut feeling the US will lag in a true recovery as mentioned by many here. It just goes along with who we are at this point. I mean think about it, we have a lot of issues that are unique to our own stupidity. Not all these issues are American but we certainly lead the way...

    • Gun violence, we accept more deaths to guns than any civilized nation in the world. Even simple background checks are a contentious subject, even after thousands of kids gunned down over the past decades. 
    • I turn on my TV for lunch and what do I see, an add for some attorney who defends DUI's. We are perfectly okay losing thousands each year on the roads due to alcohol and do virtually nothing about it. 
    • Second hand smoke has killed hundreds of thousands over the past century. Yet cigarettes are still sold virtually everywhere. 
    • Safe sex and abortions are still HUGE conservative talking points. It's virtually impossible to get a safe abortion in a good chunk of the US right now. 
    • A comical amount of concentrated wealth and yet poverty levels increase with each passing year. Access to affordable healthcare slips each year as well.
    Based on who we are and the "freedoms" we value expect the US to lag in a return to normalcy. It's who we are, USA, USA, USA!!! I'll go ahead and write our future now...
    • US considers 60,000 COVID deaths in 2022 as acceptable. Following the disaster of 400,000 in 2021. Europe reports 5,000 deaths in 2022 and has vaccinated 90% of their population while the US never gets about 70%. Fortunately and unfortunately 75% of the remaining 30% (75 million people) have been infected and the pandemic runs out of steam and ends in early 2023. The rest of the world beats the US to a full recovery by over a year. Immunity however only lasts 12-18 months and the US continues to experience an unnecessary 20K deaths a year for the next decade. Science has come up with effective treatments and mortality is in line with the flu but most US citizens can't afford and die without access to them. 

    Post edited by lastexit78 on
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  • PJPOWER said:
    PJPOWER said:
    PJPOWER said:
    PJPOWER said:
    The fact that this is even a debatable topic says everything you need to know about why we are where we are at. These vaccines have been injected in hundreds of thousands of people already with virtually zero side effects. Also vaccine side effects don’t randomly show up years later, that’s a fallacy that some will use to ague their anti vaccine stance. Tragically and I guess in a sick way thankfully we are likely approaching 100 million cases. CDC thinks we’ve captured 1/8 of cases which based on most other studies I’ve read is probably fairly accurate. By the time a vaccine gets to most of us we’ll likely be approaching 40% herd immunity. So if even half of the other say 200 million who haven’t been infected took the vaccine we’d probably be in the 70% range. With the other 30% continuing to get naturally infected at a much smaller rate for the next few years. At that point it comes down to length of immunity, so far reinfections are rare and most scientists seem to believe immunity is at least a year. Bottom line, not taking the vaccine just delays any sort of recovery, either by months or potentially years. I hope by the middle of next year we can start sorting new infections by vaccine or non vaccine. That might be the only way some people get a clue, when 90% of new infections are from the unvaccinated maybe the message will hit home. Especially if people are still dying at a decent clip.






    Do you have sources to back up these statements?
    (And, I'm not an anti-vaxxxer, just want to learn more as I don't trust the greedy fuckers nor the politicians.  (Aren't they the same?))


    I’m not going to claim to be an expert, I’ve just researched and listened to a lot of scientist over the past 9 months, probably not unlike most of you. Bottom line is vaccine side effects are very likely to be minor. Pretty much as an above mentioned NBC article talks about. As for herd immunity we are not close, but at 150k plus confirmed cases a day we are likely steamrolling towards it faster than Sweden. Which is hard to fathom based on the differences in our responses. If anyone uses twitter and is looking for a good scientific based information source check out Dr. Faheem Younus. There’s a lot of doctors reporting from the front lines but I think he’s maybe the best. You can find stuff from him and other doctors all over the internet. Even Fauci who has made some honest mistakes is a reliable source for common sense measures, there’s a ton of his interviews all over the place. I try to stay away from the mainstream media in most cases as they are manipulating data to serve their own narrative. Just do an internet search for unbiased COVID news and seek out the ones you think are the most legitimate. I have a bunch bookmarked but you can decide for yourself where the legit facts can be found. Watching CNN or god forbid Fox News is not going to get you anything but sensationalism. They are going to scare you with rare reinfections cases, or the handful of children who have died. Or in the case of Fox News try and tell you it’s a hoax and everything is fine. I’m exaggerating but you get my point. 

    Dr. Faheem Younus
    https://mobile.twitter.com/faheemyounus?lang=en

    Also an extensive vaccine side effect run down from the CDC 
    https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/side-effects.htm
    Something doesn’t sit well for me with that line...”handful of children”?  I sure hope no one creating vaccines throws out lines like that.  “Meh, it’s only going to effect a handful of children”.  Some impacts should never be minimized (in my opinion).
    More than a “handful of children” are going to be permanently scarred for life if this thing drags on for another year plus. My son hasn’t seen most of his his friends or been to school since March. Overall he’s doing well but I see issues like childhood obesity escalating out of control. Not to mention the psychological damage to so many, including teens who are missing out on the defining moments of their life. In regards to vaccines children would be the last to receive it and I would certainly make sure there was no adverse side effects before letting my son get injected. There are 7 plus billion people on this planet, most every action we do on a daily basis could have some negative outcome. It’s why we have seat belts, the FAA, MRI scanning machines, GFI outlets, etc, etc. We are fragile beings with a limited life cycle, dangers lurk around every corner. But we’ve managed to reduce most to a manageable level through science and innovation. Vaccines have literally saved millions of lives over the past century and yet somehow this is a real debate in this country. 
    You hit the nail about my concerns regarding children as well.  One thing I’ve been concerned with is emotional development for the infants that are in daycare.  Facial expressions are so important in infant emotional development and they are not getting that with daycare workers wearing masks.  The longer this stuff drags on, the more emotional dev delays and probably are bound to become apparent.  So many ripples that will last for generations...
    interesting you say this. My wife works in child care and she's very concerned about this as well. 
    It’s a major thing, but I fear it’s getting overlooked in most daycares.  I don’t know what the right answer is, but sacrificing emotional development is it.  It can lead to all kinds of developmental disorders down the road.
    the last 8 months have been incredibly difficult for my wife, and i'm sure for most early childhood educators. she's so used to hugging children, loving babies, smiling through their tears; my wife is known for "spreading joy" and she feels as if she's ineffective at that with a mask on. she's a director now but she still deals with the kids a lot. as you said, she knows the impact a smile has on young kids; that's their language to a large degree: non-verbal. a smile makes them light up and helps them, as you also said, in their development; to know empathy, love, compassion, etc. she sees their fear and hesitancy not being able to see the whole face. 

    my wife has absolutely loved her profession since day 1. she literally hates it right now. as i can imagine how anyone in a soft role feels; teachers, nurses, doctors, therapists, etc. 
    Tons of respect for your wife and others trying to look out for the well-being of the children.  This is absolutely hitting everyone in one way or another.  Just found out that my uncle that has been intubated for the past 5 days coded (heart stopped) last night.  They were able to bring him back, but things aren’t looking good.  
    Tell your wife to continue spreading joy...there is definitely a lack of that these days.  I don’t know her, but appreciate her none the less :)
    my wife just told me a story of a new 3 year old that was talking to one of her staff today:

    staff: what's that smell?
    child: (confused) you have a nose?
    staff: of course I have a nose, it's under my mask (takes child to show him her picture on the wall without a mask)

    cute but heartbreaking. 
    new album "Cigarettes" out Spring 2025!

    www.headstonesband.com




  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 38,555
    PJPOWER said:
    maybe restaurants will start dividing into "vaccinated section" and a "non-vaccinated section" like we used to have for smoking. LOL. 
    Haha, that would actually be hilarious!  “All you sick mutha fuckas get in that line”.

    riiiiight. the smoke always stayed in that section......
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

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  • PJPOWERPJPOWER Posts: 6,499
    PJPOWER said:
    PJPOWER said:
    PJPOWER said:
    PJPOWER said:
    The fact that this is even a debatable topic says everything you need to know about why we are where we are at. These vaccines have been injected in hundreds of thousands of people already with virtually zero side effects. Also vaccine side effects don’t randomly show up years later, that’s a fallacy that some will use to ague their anti vaccine stance. Tragically and I guess in a sick way thankfully we are likely approaching 100 million cases. CDC thinks we’ve captured 1/8 of cases which based on most other studies I’ve read is probably fairly accurate. By the time a vaccine gets to most of us we’ll likely be approaching 40% herd immunity. So if even half of the other say 200 million who haven’t been infected took the vaccine we’d probably be in the 70% range. With the other 30% continuing to get naturally infected at a much smaller rate for the next few years. At that point it comes down to length of immunity, so far reinfections are rare and most scientists seem to believe immunity is at least a year. Bottom line, not taking the vaccine just delays any sort of recovery, either by months or potentially years. I hope by the middle of next year we can start sorting new infections by vaccine or non vaccine. That might be the only way some people get a clue, when 90% of new infections are from the unvaccinated maybe the message will hit home. Especially if people are still dying at a decent clip.






    Do you have sources to back up these statements?
    (And, I'm not an anti-vaxxxer, just want to learn more as I don't trust the greedy fuckers nor the politicians.  (Aren't they the same?))


    I’m not going to claim to be an expert, I’ve just researched and listened to a lot of scientist over the past 9 months, probably not unlike most of you. Bottom line is vaccine side effects are very likely to be minor. Pretty much as an above mentioned NBC article talks about. As for herd immunity we are not close, but at 150k plus confirmed cases a day we are likely steamrolling towards it faster than Sweden. Which is hard to fathom based on the differences in our responses. If anyone uses twitter and is looking for a good scientific based information source check out Dr. Faheem Younus. There’s a lot of doctors reporting from the front lines but I think he’s maybe the best. You can find stuff from him and other doctors all over the internet. Even Fauci who has made some honest mistakes is a reliable source for common sense measures, there’s a ton of his interviews all over the place. I try to stay away from the mainstream media in most cases as they are manipulating data to serve their own narrative. Just do an internet search for unbiased COVID news and seek out the ones you think are the most legitimate. I have a bunch bookmarked but you can decide for yourself where the legit facts can be found. Watching CNN or god forbid Fox News is not going to get you anything but sensationalism. They are going to scare you with rare reinfections cases, or the handful of children who have died. Or in the case of Fox News try and tell you it’s a hoax and everything is fine. I’m exaggerating but you get my point. 

    Dr. Faheem Younus
    https://mobile.twitter.com/faheemyounus?lang=en

    Also an extensive vaccine side effect run down from the CDC 
    https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/side-effects.htm
    Something doesn’t sit well for me with that line...”handful of children”?  I sure hope no one creating vaccines throws out lines like that.  “Meh, it’s only going to effect a handful of children”.  Some impacts should never be minimized (in my opinion).
    More than a “handful of children” are going to be permanently scarred for life if this thing drags on for another year plus. My son hasn’t seen most of his his friends or been to school since March. Overall he’s doing well but I see issues like childhood obesity escalating out of control. Not to mention the psychological damage to so many, including teens who are missing out on the defining moments of their life. In regards to vaccines children would be the last to receive it and I would certainly make sure there was no adverse side effects before letting my son get injected. There are 7 plus billion people on this planet, most every action we do on a daily basis could have some negative outcome. It’s why we have seat belts, the FAA, MRI scanning machines, GFI outlets, etc, etc. We are fragile beings with a limited life cycle, dangers lurk around every corner. But we’ve managed to reduce most to a manageable level through science and innovation. Vaccines have literally saved millions of lives over the past century and yet somehow this is a real debate in this country. 
    You hit the nail about my concerns regarding children as well.  One thing I’ve been concerned with is emotional development for the infants that are in daycare.  Facial expressions are so important in infant emotional development and they are not getting that with daycare workers wearing masks.  The longer this stuff drags on, the more emotional dev delays and probably are bound to become apparent.  So many ripples that will last for generations...
    interesting you say this. My wife works in child care and she's very concerned about this as well. 
    It’s a major thing, but I fear it’s getting overlooked in most daycares.  I don’t know what the right answer is, but sacrificing emotional development is it.  It can lead to all kinds of developmental disorders down the road.
    the last 8 months have been incredibly difficult for my wife, and i'm sure for most early childhood educators. she's so used to hugging children, loving babies, smiling through their tears; my wife is known for "spreading joy" and she feels as if she's ineffective at that with a mask on. she's a director now but she still deals with the kids a lot. as you said, she knows the impact a smile has on young kids; that's their language to a large degree: non-verbal. a smile makes them light up and helps them, as you also said, in their development; to know empathy, love, compassion, etc. she sees their fear and hesitancy not being able to see the whole face. 

    my wife has absolutely loved her profession since day 1. she literally hates it right now. as i can imagine how anyone in a soft role feels; teachers, nurses, doctors, therapists, etc. 
    Tons of respect for your wife and others trying to look out for the well-being of the children.  This is absolutely hitting everyone in one way or another.  Just found out that my uncle that has been intubated for the past 5 days coded (heart stopped) last night.  They were able to bring him back, but things aren’t looking good.  
    Tell your wife to continue spreading joy...there is definitely a lack of that these days.  I don’t know her, but appreciate her none the less :)
    my wife just told me a story of a new 3 year old that was talking to one of her staff today:

    staff: what's that smell?
    child: (confused) you have a nose?
    staff: of course I have a nose, it's under my mask (takes child to show him her picture on the wall without a mask)

    cute but heartbreaking. 
    Cute, but heartbreaking is right!  Children that age perceive things so different than we lame ass adults do, ha. Can we all go back to the age where if we put our hands over our eyes, we and everyone else disappear :)
    Did you know that playing “peek a boo” is one of the only human behaviors that spans every culture in the world?  I always found that interesting.  Evidently it is an important game to play with infants to help them grasp the “parent leave and parent come back” aspect of life at that age.  
  • PJPOWERPJPOWER Posts: 6,499
    edited December 2020
    mickeyrat said:
    PJPOWER said:
    maybe restaurants will start dividing into "vaccinated section" and a "non-vaccinated section" like we used to have for smoking. LOL. 
    Haha, that would actually be hilarious!  “All you sick mutha fuckas get in that line”.

    riiiiight. the smoke always stayed in that section......
    Ha, true, better to leave their asses out in the cold :). I’ll admit, restaurants became so much more enjoyable when you no longer tasted cigarette smoke in your food.
  • PJPOWER said:
    mickeyrat said:
    PJPOWER said:
    maybe restaurants will start dividing into "vaccinated section" and a "non-vaccinated section" like we used to have for smoking. LOL. 
    Haha, that would actually be hilarious!  “All you sick mutha fuckas get in that line”.

    riiiiight. the smoke always stayed in that section......
    Ha, true, better to leave their asses out in the cold :). I’ll admit, restaurants became so much more enjoyable when you no longer tasted cigarette smoke in your food.
    I so remember the first time being in a bar without cigarette smoke. I noticed I had literally never seen the ceiling of my favourite hang out until then. 
    new album "Cigarettes" out Spring 2025!

    www.headstonesband.com




  • PJPOWERPJPOWER Posts: 6,499
    PJPOWER said:
    mickeyrat said:
    PJPOWER said:
    maybe restaurants will start dividing into "vaccinated section" and a "non-vaccinated section" like we used to have for smoking. LOL. 
    Haha, that would actually be hilarious!  “All you sick mutha fuckas get in that line”.

    riiiiight. the smoke always stayed in that section......
    Ha, true, better to leave their asses out in the cold :). I’ll admit, restaurants became so much more enjoyable when you no longer tasted cigarette smoke in your food.
    I so remember the first time being in a bar without cigarette smoke. I noticed I had literally never seen the ceiling of my favourite hang out until then. 
    You hung out in those places too?  :)
  • Well, its February 4th and its safe for me to say that I am HIGHLY DISAPPOINTED with the distribution of the vaccine here in the USA. Actually I would say I am pissed off. Its been a fucking joke and everyone knows it. 

    From a personal standpoint, I am pissed, sad, angry etc. that i may have to wait until the beginning of April to get my 1st dose of the vaccine. I have spent the last 11months( hard to believe its been almost a year of this shit) doing my part. I have worked nothing but 60-70 hour weeks, driving coast to coast with cleaning supplies, sanitizer, cleaning products, food, water etc. I have gone to every covid hotspot in our nation. A year later I still deal with drivers, dock workers, office personal etc. NOT WEARING MASKS, not social distancing, and some still say to me "covid is just bullshit, its a made up virus". Yet I cant get the vaccine until April, and that just pisses me off. 

    Now dont get me wrong, I am not being selfish. By all means vaccinate the elderly 1st. Vaccinate the essential workers such as police and fire. I am all about "women and children 1st". 

    I guess what I am trying to say is. 
    CAN WE PLEASE SPEED UP THE PROCESS OF VACCINATING PEOPLE? 
    Take me piece by piece.....
    Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
  • April i would be happy with.  Looks like I will be July-sept here in uk
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  • April i would be happy with.  Looks like I will be July-sept here in uk
    I was truly optimistic in November, when the vaccine was going to arrive, that we would get it distributed quickly. I truly thought, after all the complete nonsense here in America, on how we handled this virus, that we could at least be able to get the vaccine out. I couldnt of been more wrong. 
    Take me piece by piece.....
    Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 Posts: 10,739
    edited February 2021
    I was hoping by September.  Our federal government has fucked up the vaccine purchasing so bad our government is stealing vaccines from organization that supplies developing nations...yes, Canada is getting vaccines from the vaccine food bank...how fucking embarrassing is that...

    and people will vote the corrupt prime minister back in...no matter how many die.

    It would not be surprise me that it early 2022...


    Post edited by Meltdown99 on
    Give Peas A Chance…
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Posts: 12,845
    I was hoping by September.  Our federal government has fucked up the vaccine purchasing so bad our government is stealing vaccines from organization that supplies developing nations...yes, Canada is getting vaccines from the vaccine food bank...how fucking embarrassing is that...

    and people will vote the corrupt prime minister back in...no matter how many die.

    It would not be surprise me that it early 2022...



    Ha ha! I wondered how long it would take for you to post something inaccurate about COVAX.

    When I read that Canada was going to get vaccines from COVAX, I wondered how that worked, since I had also only read about it in the context of providing vaccine to lower income countries. Turns out that it was set up to provide vaccine access to all countries, with wealthier nations having the option of providing funding for less wealthy nations and receiving up to 20% of their vaccine requirements through the program.

    From the Gavi fact page:

    WHAT IS COVAX?

    COVAX is one of three pillars of the Access to COVID-19 Tools (ACT) Accelerator, which was launched in April by the World Health Organization (WHO), the European Commission and France in response to this pandemic. Bringing together governments, global health organisations, manufacturers, scientists, private sector, civil society and philanthropy, with the aim of providing innovative and equitable access to COVID-19 diagnostics, treatments and vaccines. The COVAX pillar is focussed on the latter. It is the only truly global solution to this pandemic because it is the only effort to ensure that people in all corners of the world will get access to COVID-19 vaccines once they are available, regardless of their wealth.

    Coordinated by Gavi, the Vaccine Alliance, the Coalition for Epidemic Preparedness Innovations (CEPI) and the WHO, COVAX will achieve this by acting as a platform that will support the research, development and manufacturing of a wide range of COVID-19 vaccine candidates, and negotiate their pricing. All participating countries, regardless of income levels, will have equal access to these vaccines once they are developed. The initial aim is to have 2 billion doses available by the end of 2021, which should be enough to protect high risk and vulnerable people, as well as frontline healthcare workers.

    For lower-income funded nations, who would otherwise be unable to afford these vaccines, as well as a number of higher-income self-financing countries that have no bilateral deals with manufacturers, COVAX is quite literally a lifeline and the only viable way in which their citizens will get access to COVID-19 vaccines. For the wealthiest self-financing countries, some of which may also be negotiating bilateral deals with vaccine manufacturers, it serves as an invaluable insurance policy to protect their citizens, both directly and indirectly. On the one hand it will provide direct protection by increasing their chances of securing vaccine doses. Yet, at the same time by procuring COVID-19 vaccines through COVAX, these nations will also indirectly protect their citizens by reducing the chances of resurgence by ensuring that the rest of the world gets access to doses too.

    further info at link: https://www.gavi.org/vaccineswork/covax-explained

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  • shadowcastshadowcast Posts: 2,206
    brianlux said:
    brianlux said:
    I can appreciate the concern, but I don't think it will come to that because I think most people will be eager to be vaccinated.  In the 50's, almost every kid was vaccinated for polio.   There were a small number of people who suffered as ill results of the vaccination, but the reduction in cases of that crippling disease far outweighed the negative results and you almost never hear anyone say that the vaccination was a bad idea.  With the huge number of cases of COVID and the millions of deaths, I don't think there will be much resistance to the vaccination.
    But there will be resistance. There are 330 million Americans? If 25 million refuse? If 50 million refuse? Then the virus just keeps on doing what it does, right? Spreads rapidly like it has for the last 8 months.  And we truly never get back to normal. Hell if only 5 million refuse, then we can never fully move on with our lives, right?

    I'm not a doctor, so I don't know this for certain, but don't viruses eventually die out?  Geez, I hope so! 
    What's your take, Speedy?  Should the vaccine be mandatory?

    Ok, my coffee has kicked in, and I am thinking a little clearer. All of us who choose to get the vaccine will be able to get on with our lives. We will no longer be in danger, correct? If that's the case, then I guess those who refuse will have to deal with the repercussions. I guess as long as we are forever no longer in danger, once we get vaccinated, then we don't have to do a national plan as far as proof of being vaccinated. That's as long as its a forever thing. Which I guess that's what the vaccine is all about. A forever solution to not being infected. Though, I still think having employers and business forcing proof of vaccination is not a bad idea. If you have 250 employees, and 50 choose not to get the vaccine, whats to stop all 50 from not catching the virus? We all have seen how this virus spreads.

    And YES a very big YES to mandatory vaccine. The last 8 months have been brutal. LETS END THIS.

    And now I think of traveling abroad. Should any American thinking of boarding a plane be forced to have proof of being vaccinated? Do we allow Americans to travel abroad without being vaccinated? I say NO WAY! You want to travel abroad? You must be vaccinated. Right? Or do I need more coffee to think this over? Hahahaha

    What a terrible & naïve take take on this. 
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