I ll definitely get the vaccine but I sure as hell won’t be first.
My feeling exactly.
One of my sister's best friends is a fairly recently retired, highly respected doctor and he is advising us to not be the first to get the vaccine. I'll wait until he thinks it is safe and then get right on it. I'll keep anyone posted who is interested.
Well, therein lies the problem. If no one agrees to be “first”, what next? This is one of the issues that will drive down vaccination rates.
Looked at one way, there is a similar argument of selfishness as with the mask debate, lockdowns, etc - everyone wants someone else to make a sacrifice.
I understand what you are saying and have thought of that. But first of all, there are many people eager to be first, and for good reason- they are on the front lines. And secondly, I'm an older, mostly retired adult with a compromised immune system, so my first line of defense is to stay home and stay away from people, so I'm not nearly in as great a need to receive the vaccine. If I were where I was at earlier in my life- young, strong, healthy, working full time- I would be much more apt to vaccinate early. It isn't about letting someone else make the sacrifice.
The older, immune compromised population is exactly the population being targeted for the first wave of vaccinations, as they are most at risk of bad outcomes (mortality or significant morbidity) if they get sick. The young, strong and healthy are probably going to be back of the line, except where they work in health care, are first responders, or are otherwise essential workers.
Vaccinating those most at risk first helps to alleviate much of the weight on the health system, particularly hospitals.
That makes some sense. But if the vaccine proves to have detrimental side-effects, will older, immune compromised people be more able to deal with them or less? I'm not eager to find out. Thus, I am being very careful about how I go about the task of living and will get the vaccine as soon as can reasonably (not 100% sure, just reasonably) believe it is safe.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
This is a tough question. I tend to bristle at being told "You have to do this!" But I guess I'd after to agree that it will have to be mandatory. What bothers me about that is that it shouldn't have to be mandatory. I would hope everyone would want to end the pandemic!
Mandatory just makes sense to me. Yes, if 75% of our nation gets the vaccine, then our lives will get back to normal, finally. But what about the other 25%? They just keep spreading the virus amongst each other? And like you said, we just wait for the virus to disappear?
I would hope that you are correct and 99% of us would go and get the vaccine. But in the last 8 months I have lost all faith in human beings. What percent couldn't even put on a silly mask to protect themselves and others. Plus the countless times I have heard someone tell me "This is all BULLSHIT"
Make it mandatory.
A recent poll found 40% of folks say they won't get the vaccine. (Of course based on the accuracy of recent election polls that could mean anywhere from zero to 330 million folks will get it ), the good news is that number is down from 50% who said they wouldn't get it in October. Likely the positive news from Pfizer and Moderna coupled with the surge in cases has changed some minds. At any rate we don't need everybody to be vaccinated to achieve herd immunity (or herd mentality if your last name is Trump), most experts have said 70% is a good benchmark and even 60% may suffice. The virus then has far fewer hosts to infect, if 70% of folks are vaccinated and you add in those who have some level of immunity from having already been infected, cases keep decreasing and eventually become almost negligible. That assumes the vaccines are as effective as the trials are saying. Either way, there wont't be mandatory vaccination enforced by the gov't. Some employers (especially health care and similar) will likely make it mandatory for workers, but there is no way a mandatory vaccine flies nationwide.
My thought is that it won’t be mandatory. I am sure for international travel and maybe domestic air travel it may be required to provide proof. Schools will require it like other vaccines. Will be interesting what lawsuits come from this. I don’t think Ticketmaster will be able to require it. They may try but can’t see private businesses being able to enforce it without massive lawsuits.
It will be interesting to see how this all shakes out. This largely impacts the elderly and those with other risk factors, so will they end up forcing children to get vaccinated if the teachers can get vaccines if they want?
Speaking of schools it will be interesting when they allow kids to get it. Could be years from now.
I can appreciate the concern, but I don't think it will come to that because I think most people will be eager to be vaccinated. In the 50's, almost every kid was vaccinated for polio. There were a small number of people who suffered as ill results of the vaccination, but the reduction in cases of that crippling disease far outweighed the negative results and you almost never hear anyone say that the vaccination was a bad idea. With the huge number of cases of COVID and the millions of deaths, I don't think there will be much resistance to the vaccination.
But there will be resistance. There are 330 million Americans? If 25 million refuse? If 50 million refuse? Then the virus just keeps on doing what it does, right? Spreads rapidly like it has for the last 8 months. And we truly never get back to normal. Hell if only 5 million refuse, then we can never fully move on with our lives, right?
I'm not a doctor, so I don't know this for certain, but don't viruses eventually die out? Geez, I hope so!
What's your take, Speedy? Should the vaccine be mandatory?
do viruses usually peak in the spring summer and fall? If anything, covid has proved to be a persistent virus.
I can appreciate the concern, but I don't think it will come to that because I think most people will be eager to be vaccinated. In the 50's, almost every kid was vaccinated for polio. There were a small number of people who suffered as ill results of the vaccination, but the reduction in cases of that crippling disease far outweighed the negative results and you almost never hear anyone say that the vaccination was a bad idea. With the huge number of cases of COVID and the millions of deaths, I don't think there will be much resistance to the vaccination.
But there will be resistance. There are 330 million Americans? If 25 million refuse? If 50 million refuse? Then the virus just keeps on doing what it does, right? Spreads rapidly like it has for the last 8 months. And we truly never get back to normal. Hell if only 5 million refuse, then we can never fully move on with our lives, right?
I'm not a doctor, so I don't know this for certain, but don't viruses eventually die out? Geez, I hope so!
What's your take, Speedy? Should the vaccine be mandatory?
do viruses usually peak in the spring summer and fall? If anything, covid has proved to be a persistent virus.
Viruses don’t generally “die out”; they persist as long as they find hosts to infect. They can also mutate, which can make them more, or less, virulent.
Whether a virus peaks in the warmer months or the colder months depends on the type of virus, and probably the external membrane of the virus.
Our future with covid depends on the duration of the immune response. If the majority of people who either get infected or get vaccinated develop a durable lifelong immunity, then we will eventually put SARS-CoV2 behind us, but this doesn’t seem like the most likely scenario. If immunity lasts in the order of months, then we will probably get yearly waves of infection. If immunity lasts for years, we’ll probably get sporadic waves for the foreseeable future.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
I can appreciate the concern, but I don't think it will come to that because I think most people will be eager to be vaccinated. In the 50's, almost every kid was vaccinated for polio. There were a small number of people who suffered as ill results of the vaccination, but the reduction in cases of that crippling disease far outweighed the negative results and you almost never hear anyone say that the vaccination was a bad idea. With the huge number of cases of COVID and the millions of deaths, I don't think there will be much resistance to the vaccination.
But there will be resistance. There are 330 million Americans? If 25 million refuse? If 50 million refuse? Then the virus just keeps on doing what it does, right? Spreads rapidly like it has for the last 8 months. And we truly never get back to normal. Hell if only 5 million refuse, then we can never fully move on with our lives, right?
I'm not a doctor, so I don't know this for certain, but don't viruses eventually die out? Geez, I hope so!
What's your take, Speedy? Should the vaccine be mandatory?
do viruses usually peak in the spring summer and fall? If anything, covid has proved to be a persistent virus.
Viruses don’t generally “die out”; they persist as long as they find hosts to infect. They can also mutate, which can make them more, or less, virulent.
Whether a virus peaks in the warmer months or the colder months depends on the type of virus, and probably the external membrane of the virus.
Our future with covid depends on the duration of the immune response. If the majority of people who either get infected or get vaccinated develop a durable lifelong immunity, then we will eventually put SARS-CoV2 behind us, but this doesn’t seem like the most likely scenario. If immunity lasts in the order of months, then we will probably get yearly waves of infection. If immunity lasts for years, we’ll probably get sporadic waves for the foreseeable future.
I will take it. And go first. At around 70% there will be herd immunity so it will die out in each country when that is achieved. Either by having covid or having vaccines. I would prefer the oxford one because its a tried and tested method. I wont be eligible for the early ones here anyhow so will end up oxfords vaccine.
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,732
I can appreciate the concern, but I don't think it will come to that because I think most people will be eager to be vaccinated. In the 50's, almost every kid was vaccinated for polio. There were a small number of people who suffered as ill results of the vaccination, but the reduction in cases of that crippling disease far outweighed the negative results and you almost never hear anyone say that the vaccination was a bad idea. With the huge number of cases of COVID and the millions of deaths, I don't think there will be much resistance to the vaccination.
But there will be resistance. There are 330 million Americans? If 25 million refuse? If 50 million refuse? Then the virus just keeps on doing what it does, right? Spreads rapidly like it has for the last 8 months. And we truly never get back to normal. Hell if only 5 million refuse, then we can never fully move on with our lives, right?
I'm not a doctor, so I don't know this for certain, but don't viruses eventually die out? Geez, I hope so!
What's your take, Speedy? Should the vaccine be mandatory?
do viruses usually peak in the spring summer and fall? If anything, covid has proved to be a persistent virus.
Rather than ask someone like me who has had no experience beyond working in a health library (which makes me an expert at nothing, though fairly skilled at research when I am feeling ambitious), let's ask, "Is there a doctor in the house?"
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Even if it’s federally approved, and backed by scientist? Why question this of all things now when for the past 6 months there’s been a demand for a cure? I really don’t get where people honestly come from in their statements. In one regard, yes let’s end this and science with fix it, the other regard science has a good solution but I’m not sure. I have no idea where the ethics of the most ethical group lay, and how what is the right thing for humanity gets questioned when it comes time for that individual to actually stand up and face the fire. I’m amused by the mental gymnastics. The government should run healthcare, but we don’t trust them?
I can appreciate the concern, but I don't think it will come to that because I think most people will be eager to be vaccinated. In the 50's, almost every kid was vaccinated for polio. There were a small number of people who suffered as ill results of the vaccination, but the reduction in cases of that crippling disease far outweighed the negative results and you almost never hear anyone say that the vaccination was a bad idea. With the huge number of cases of COVID and the millions of deaths, I don't think there will be much resistance to the vaccination.
But there will be resistance. There are 330 million Americans? If 25 million refuse? If 50 million refuse? Then the virus just keeps on doing what it does, right? Spreads rapidly like it has for the last 8 months. And we truly never get back to normal. Hell if only 5 million refuse, then we can never fully move on with our lives, right?
I'm not a doctor, so I don't know this for certain, but don't viruses eventually die out? Geez, I hope so!
What's your take, Speedy? Should the vaccine be mandatory?
do viruses usually peak in the spring summer and fall? If anything, covid has proved to be a persistent virus.
Viruses don’t generally “die out”; they persist as long as they find hosts to infect. They can also mutate, which can make them more, or less, virulent.
Whether a virus peaks in the warmer months or the colder months depends on the type of virus, and probably the external membrane of the virus.
Our future with covid depends on the duration of the immune response. If the majority of people who either get infected or get vaccinated develop a durable lifelong immunity, then we will eventually put SARS-CoV2 behind us, but this doesn’t seem like the most likely scenario. If immunity lasts in the order of months, then we will probably get yearly waves of infection. If immunity lasts for years, we’ll probably get sporadic waves for the foreseeable future.
Well, aren’t you a ray of sunshine?
You’d better wear shades.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
i will have to get it. i am in and out of so many hospitals and surgery centers and they all have different requirements for entrance. i am sure some of the big ones here in st louis will mandate it, so i will have to get it.
my concern is this. viruses tend to mutate. will the vaccine be able to prevent all potential mutations, or will the vaccine cause immunity to one very particular strain?
i am not in epidemiology so i have no idea. none of my management has any idea either. we are just going to go along with what is required of us.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
I can appreciate the concern, but I don't think it will come to that because I think most people will be eager to be vaccinated. In the 50's, almost every kid was vaccinated for polio. There were a small number of people who suffered as ill results of the vaccination, but the reduction in cases of that crippling disease far outweighed the negative results and you almost never hear anyone say that the vaccination was a bad idea. With the huge number of cases of COVID and the millions of deaths, I don't think there will be much resistance to the vaccination.
But there will be resistance. There are 330 million Americans? If 25 million refuse? If 50 million refuse? Then the virus just keeps on doing what it does, right? Spreads rapidly like it has for the last 8 months. And we truly never get back to normal. Hell if only 5 million refuse, then we can never fully move on with our lives, right?
I'm not a doctor, so I don't know this for certain, but don't viruses eventually die out? Geez, I hope so!
What's your take, Speedy? Should the vaccine be mandatory?
do viruses usually peak in the spring summer and fall? If anything, covid has proved to be a persistent virus.
Viruses don’t generally “die out”; they persist as long as they find hosts to infect. They can also mutate, which can make them more, or less, virulent.
Whether a virus peaks in the warmer months or the colder months depends on the type of virus, and probably the external membrane of the virus.
Our future with covid depends on the duration of the immune response. If the majority of people who either get infected or get vaccinated develop a durable lifelong immunity, then we will eventually put SARS-CoV2 behind us, but this doesn’t seem like the most likely scenario. If immunity lasts in the order of months, then we will probably get yearly waves of infection. If immunity lasts for years, we’ll probably get sporadic waves for the foreseeable future.
Well, aren’t you a ray of sunshine?
You’d better wear shades.
Why? Because my future’s so bright? Or that’s the rule “around here?”
Even if it’s federally approved, and backed by scientist? Why question this of all things now when for the past 6 months there’s been a demand for a cure? I really don’t get where people honestly come from in their statements. In one regard, yes let’s end this and science with fix it, the other regard science has a good solution but I’m not sure. I have no idea where the ethics of the most ethical group lay, and how what is the right thing for humanity gets questioned when it comes time for that individual to actually stand up and face the fire. I’m amused by the mental gymnastics. The government should run healthcare, but we don’t trust them?
Because they have been stocked by your buddy Trump, as of late, and he is not someone I would trust. With anything.
The love he receives is the love that is saved
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,732
Even if it’s federally approved, and backed by scientist? Why question this of all things now when for the past 6 months there’s been a demand for a cure? I really don’t get where people honestly come from in their statements. In one regard, yes let’s end this and science with fix it, the other regard science has a good solution but I’m not sure. I have no idea where the ethics of the most ethical group lay, and how what is the right thing for humanity gets questioned when it comes time for that individual to actually stand up and face the fire. I’m amused by the mental gymnastics. The government should run healthcare, but we don’t trust them?
I think you over-rated us.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
they can't make it mandatory. but private companies can. ticketmaster and live nation most likely will force people to show some type of proof. as will professional sports teams. large restaurant chains will too.
only issue i foresee is if they make it mandatory to show proof, please don't let that proof be easy to recognize on people, like a wristband or something. we really don't need public shaming or people getting violent with those without one. put it on your driver's license or some other form of ID. "get yer covid card, heeeeere!"
I cant see why anyone would not take a vaccine that has been proven in method. I can understand fear in the mrna kind but i still would take that. Too many people think they are scientist's. If someone employed me to do my job they can expect i do it correctly. Same with all the tests and clearances. Vaccines have saved millions of lives . TB. MMR . FLU .MENINGITIS. PNEUMONIA , so many more. I do think we have a population here in uk who will deny vaccine for covid but take all the others. Its just madness to me.
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I cant see why anyone would not take a vaccine that has been proven in method. I can understand fear in the mrna kind but i still would take that. Too many people think they are scientist's. If someone employed me to do my job they can expect i do it correctly. Same with all the tests and clearances. Vaccines have saved millions of lives . TB. MMR . FLU .MENINGITIS. PNEUMONIA , so many more. I do think we have a population here in uk who will deny vaccine for covid but take all the others. Its just madness to me.
the issue is no one knows the long term effects. and we can't. otherwise we'll be waiting this out for years. however, i saw the chief dude for operation warp speed (can't recall his name) and he said that 95% of long term effects for vaccines show up in the first 40-60 days, which is somewhat encouraging to me.
Yes i agree and if you take astra zenica vaccine for example we know a lot already as its the same as flu jab in method. So we have a great insight. The mrna kind i get worry but in these times its a global pandemic and to stop the death of many we as a human race must take that chance and its a slim one i think.just my view
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Also someone had to take all those others for a first time and we still take them now. Thats a good sign. I remember when all these unfounded MMR tales of autism came around All proved no so. And look at the cases of measles now rising because people didnt vaccinate. All 4 of my kids had the MMR . We still immunize people of indian and Pakistani origin here because they mix with relatives that bring TB into the uk. Both of those jabs have been studied and seem to help with covid very interesting. But i mean we need vaccines . Even when these new ones are independently reviewed and start rolling out so many will say no That's sad to me but its everyones right for sure to decide
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I plan on getting the vaccine when it is available. The one Pfizer has developed was done outside of Operation Warpspeed, so at least in my mind it has been free of the potential mishandling and interference by the administration.
no one is stopping anyone from taking those vaccines. Your body your choice. My choice is not to take a vaccine that is being rushed to market...
I'll let others develop that twitch...
what if an employer requires you to take one? at least one airline is talking about requiring a vaccine to board. Ticketmaster is talking about requiring a negative test to attend shows. I understand the trepidation but in some ways decisions to take may be more difficult than you think.
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,802
talk. talk talk talk. any firm plans or something more concrete than talk?
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
There were problems with the swine flu vaccine. But I don't know what percentage.had problems. But was a big story at the time here in Sweden. Kids getting narcolepsy
But if you live in society, you are to respect society. That's the deal. Which taking a vaccine to stop a pandemic is a part of.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
no one is stopping anyone from taking those vaccines. Your body your choice. My choice is not to take a vaccine that is being rushed to market...
I'll let others develop that twitch...
what if an employer requires you to take one? at least one airline is talking about requiring a vaccine to board. Ticketmaster is talking about requiring a negative test to attend shows. I understand the trepidation but in some ways decisions to take may be more difficult than you think.
I work in the maintenance department of a correctional facility that has had dozens of staff and offenders test positive. We received an email recently with a poll question asking us if we would be interested in receiving the vaccine when it became available. At least for now, it seems like it will not be mandatory here.
no one is stopping anyone from taking those vaccines. Your body your choice. My choice is not to take a vaccine that is being rushed to market...
I'll let others develop that twitch...
what if an employer requires you to take one? at least one airline is talking about requiring a vaccine to board. Ticketmaster is talking about requiring a negative test to attend shows. I understand the trepidation but in some ways decisions to take may be more difficult than you think.
Those are all very good points. I work for a school board and I highly doubt they can make the a condition of employment. Even though I work for a school board I am going to be low priority in the pecking order. I guess I will have to cross that bridge when I come to it...
Comments
That makes some sense. But if the vaccine proves to have detrimental side-effects, will older, immune compromised people be more able to deal with them or less? I'm not eager to find out. Thus, I am being very careful about how I go about the task of living and will get the vaccine as soon as can reasonably (not 100% sure, just reasonably) believe it is safe.
At any rate we don't need everybody to be vaccinated to achieve herd immunity (or herd mentality if your last name is Trump), most experts have said 70% is a good benchmark and even 60% may suffice. The virus then has far fewer hosts to infect, if 70% of folks are vaccinated and you add in those who have some level of immunity from having already been infected, cases keep decreasing and eventually become almost negligible.
That assumes the vaccines are as effective as the trials are saying.
Either way, there wont't be mandatory vaccination enforced by the gov't. Some employers (especially health care and similar) will likely make it mandatory for workers, but there is no way a mandatory vaccine flies nationwide.
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
I would prefer the oxford one because its a tried and tested method. I wont be eligible for the early ones here anyhow so will end up oxfords vaccine.
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Rather than ask someone like me who has had no experience beyond working in a health library (which makes me an expert at nothing, though fairly skilled at research when I am feeling ambitious), let's ask, "Is there a doctor in the house?"
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this song is meant to be called i got shit,itshould be called i got shit tickets-hartford 06 -
my concern is this. viruses tend to mutate. will the vaccine be able to prevent all potential mutations, or will the vaccine cause immunity to one very particular strain?
i am not in epidemiology so i have no idea. none of my management has any idea either. we are just going to go along with what is required of us.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
www.headstonesband.com
That would be a huge step out of bounds for the government and the crazies will/would have every right to act up.
only issue i foresee is if they make it mandatory to show proof, please don't let that proof be easy to recognize on people, like a wristband or something. we really don't need public shaming or people getting violent with those without one. put it on your driver's license or some other form of ID. "get yer covid card, heeeeere!"
www.headstonesband.com
Too many people think they are scientist's.
If someone employed me to do my job they can expect i do it correctly.
Same with all the tests and clearances.
Vaccines have saved millions of lives . TB. MMR . FLU .MENINGITIS. PNEUMONIA , so many more.
I do think we have a population here in uk who will deny vaccine for covid but take all the others. Its just madness to me.
astoria 06
albany 06
hartford 06
reading 06
barcelona 06
paris 06
wembley 07
dusseldorf 07
nijmegen 07
this song is meant to be called i got shit,itshould be called i got shit tickets-hartford 06 -
www.headstonesband.com
astoria 06
albany 06
hartford 06
reading 06
barcelona 06
paris 06
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this song is meant to be called i got shit,itshould be called i got shit tickets-hartford 06 -
All proved no so. And look at the cases of measles now rising because people didnt vaccinate. All 4 of my kids had the MMR . We still immunize people of indian and Pakistani origin here because they mix with relatives that bring TB into the uk. Both of those jabs have been studied and seem to help with covid very interesting. But i mean we need vaccines . Even when these new ones are independently reviewed and start rolling out so many will say no
That's sad to me but its everyones right for sure to decide
astoria 06
albany 06
hartford 06
reading 06
barcelona 06
paris 06
wembley 07
dusseldorf 07
nijmegen 07
this song is meant to be called i got shit,itshould be called i got shit tickets-hartford 06 -
I'll let others develop that twitch...
astoria 06
albany 06
hartford 06
reading 06
barcelona 06
paris 06
wembley 07
dusseldorf 07
nijmegen 07
this song is meant to be called i got shit,itshould be called i got shit tickets-hartford 06 -
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
But if you live in society, you are to respect society. That's the deal. Which taking a vaccine to stop a pandemic is a part of.