https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/astrazeneca-oxford-vaccine-error-trial-results-1.5816852

lastexitlondon said:

Meltdown99 said:

AstraZeneca manufacturing error raises questions about vaccine study results

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/astrazeneca-oxford-vaccine-error-trial-results-1.5816852

I think it was a happy mistake finding half dose information.  I cant see this will maje much difference  to the efficacy 

You are probably right.  I really have no clue.  By the time I have the option for the vaccine we should know more.  I’d be surprised if any Canadians are being vaccinated by mid January or later...

Meltdown99 said:

Colin D'Mello CTVNews on Twitter: "NEW: Health Minister Christine Elliott says Ontario is no longer expecting to receive vaccines in early 2021 -- because the deals haven't been finalized by the federal government. "This is very concerning," Elliott says. #onpoli" / Twitter

https://www.cp24.com/news/elliott-says-pm-s-comments-on-vaccine-timeline-very-concerning-but-feds-say-target-remains-early-2021-1.5206005

This is her comments today. Lots going on here with political spin lately from both sides it seems. 

SCO looking to feds for realistic vaccine timeline for First Nations | The Star

I'd have no problem vaccinating 1st nations people 1st... It's the least we can do for them.

lastexit78 said:

The fact that this is even a debatable topic says everything you need to know about why we are where we are at. These vaccines have been injected in hundreds of thousands of people already with virtually zero side effects. Also vaccine side effects don’t randomly show up years later, that’s a fallacy that some will use to ague their anti vaccine stance. Tragically and I guess in a sick way thankfully we are likely approaching 100 million cases. CDC thinks we’ve captured 1/8 of cases which based on most other studies I’ve read is probably fairly accurate. By the time a vaccine gets to most of us we’ll likely be approaching 40% herd immunity. So if even half of the other say 200 million who haven’t been infected took the vaccine we’d probably be in the 70% range. With the other 30% continuing to get naturally infected at a much smaller rate for the next few years. At that point it comes down to length of immunity, so far reinfections are rare and most scientists seem to believe immunity is at least a year. Bottom line, not taking the vaccine just delays any sort of recovery, either by months or potentially years. I hope by the middle of next year we can start sorting new infections by vaccine or non vaccine. That might be the only way some people get a clue, when 90% of new infections are from the unvaccinated maybe the message will hit home. Especially if people are still dying at a decent clip.

Swedish surge in Covid cases dashes immunity hopes | World news | The Guardian

Covid-19 vaccines may have potentially unpleasant side effects (nbcnews.com)

F Me In The Brain said:

lastexit78 said:

The fact that this is even a debatable topic says everything you need to know about why we are where we are at. These vaccines have been injected in hundreds of thousands of people already with virtually zero side effects. Also vaccine side effects don’t randomly show up years later, that’s a fallacy that some will use to ague their anti vaccine stance. Tragically and I guess in a sick way thankfully we are likely approaching 100 million cases. CDC thinks we’ve captured 1/8 of cases which based on most other studies I’ve read is probably fairly accurate. By the time a vaccine gets to most of us we’ll likely be approaching 40% herd immunity. So if even half of the other say 200 million who haven’t been infected took the vaccine we’d probably be in the 70% range. With the other 30% continuing to get naturally infected at a much smaller rate for the next few years. At that point it comes down to length of immunity, so far reinfections are rare and most scientists seem to believe immunity is at least a year. Bottom line, not taking the vaccine just delays any sort of recovery, either by months or potentially years. I hope by the middle of next year we can start sorting new infections by vaccine or non vaccine. That might be the only way some people get a clue, when 90% of new infections are from the unvaccinated maybe the message will hit home. Especially if people are still dying at a decent clip.






Do you have sources to back up these statements?
(And, I'm not an anti-vaxxxer, just want to learn more as I don't trust the greedy fuckers nor the politicians.  (Aren't they the same?))

I’m not going to claim to be an expert, I’ve just researched and listened to a lot of scientist over the past 9 months, probably not unlike most of you. Bottom line is vaccine side effects are very likely to be minor. Pretty much as an above mentioned NBC article talks about. As for herd immunity we are not close, but at 150k plus confirmed cases a day we are likely steamrolling towards it faster than Sweden. Which is hard to fathom based on the differences in our responses. If anyone uses twitter and is looking for a good scientific based information source check out Dr. Faheem Younus. There’s a lot of doctors reporting from the front lines but I think he’s maybe the best. You can find stuff from him and other doctors all over the internet. Even Fauci who has made some honest mistakes is a reliable source for common sense measures, there’s a ton of his interviews all over the place. I try to stay away from the mainstream media in most cases as they are manipulating data to serve their own narrative. Just do an internet search for unbiased COVID news and seek out the ones you think are the most legitimate. I have a bunch bookmarked but you can decide for yourself where the legit facts can be found. Watching CNN or god forbid Fox News is not going to get you anything but sensationalism. They are going to scare you with rare reinfections cases, or the handful of children who have died. Or in the case of Fox News try and tell you it’s a hoax and everything is fine. I’m exaggerating but you get my point. 

Dr. Faheem Younus
https://mobile.twitter.com/faheemyounus?lang=en

Also an extensive vaccine side effect run down from the CDC 
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/side-effects.htm

PJPOWER said:

lastexit78 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

lastexit78 said:

The fact that this is even a debatable topic says everything you need to know about why we are where we are at. These vaccines have been injected in hundreds of thousands of people already with virtually zero side effects. Also vaccine side effects don’t randomly show up years later, that’s a fallacy that some will use to ague their anti vaccine stance. Tragically and I guess in a sick way thankfully we are likely approaching 100 million cases. CDC thinks we’ve captured 1/8 of cases which based on most other studies I’ve read is probably fairly accurate. By the time a vaccine gets to most of us we’ll likely be approaching 40% herd immunity. So if even half of the other say 200 million who haven’t been infected took the vaccine we’d probably be in the 70% range. With the other 30% continuing to get naturally infected at a much smaller rate for the next few years. At that point it comes down to length of immunity, so far reinfections are rare and most scientists seem to believe immunity is at least a year. Bottom line, not taking the vaccine just delays any sort of recovery, either by months or potentially years. I hope by the middle of next year we can start sorting new infections by vaccine or non vaccine. That might be the only way some people get a clue, when 90% of new infections are from the unvaccinated maybe the message will hit home. Especially if people are still dying at a decent clip.






Do you have sources to back up these statements?
(And, I'm not an anti-vaxxxer, just want to learn more as I don't trust the greedy fuckers nor the politicians.  (Aren't they the same?))

I’m not going to claim to be an expert, I’ve just researched and listened to a lot of scientist over the past 9 months, probably not unlike most of you. Bottom line is vaccine side effects are very likely to be minor. Pretty much as an above mentioned NBC article talks about. As for herd immunity we are not close, but at 150k plus confirmed cases a day we are likely steamrolling towards it faster than Sweden. Which is hard to fathom based on the differences in our responses. If anyone uses twitter and is looking for a good scientific based information source check out Dr. Faheem Younus. There’s a lot of doctors reporting from the front lines but I think he’s maybe the best. You can find stuff from him and other doctors all over the internet. Even Fauci who has made some honest mistakes is a reliable source for common sense measures, there’s a ton of his interviews all over the place. I try to stay away from the mainstream media in most cases as they are manipulating data to serve their own narrative. Just do an internet search for unbiased COVID news and seek out the ones you think are the most legitimate. I have a bunch bookmarked but you can decide for yourself where the legit facts can be found. Watching CNN or god forbid Fox News is not going to get you anything but sensationalism. They are going to scare you with rare reinfections cases, or the handful of children who have died. Or in the case of Fox News try and tell you it’s a hoax and everything is fine. I’m exaggerating but you get my point. 

Dr. Faheem Younus
https://mobile.twitter.com/faheemyounus?lang=en

Also an extensive vaccine side effect run down from the CDC 
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/side-effects.htm

Something doesn’t sit well for me with that line...”handful of children”?  I sure hope no one creating vaccines throws out lines like that.  “Meh, it’s only going to effect a handful of children”.  Some impacts should never be minimized (in my opinion).

More than a “handful of children” are going to be permanently scarred for life if this thing drags on for another year plus. My son hasn’t seen most of his his friends or been to school since March. Overall he’s doing well but I see issues like childhood obesity escalating out of control. Not to mention the psychological damage to so many, including teens who are missing out on the defining moments of their life. In regards to vaccines children would be the last to receive it and I would certainly make sure there was no adverse side effects before letting my son get injected. There are 7 plus billion people on this planet, most every action we do on a daily basis could have some negative outcome. It’s why we have seat belts, the FAA, MRI scanning machines, GFI outlets, etc, etc. We are fragile beings with a limited life cycle, dangers lurk around every corner. But we’ve managed to reduce most to a manageable level through science and innovation. Vaccines have literally saved millions of lives over the past century and yet somehow this is a real debate in this country. 

PJPOWER said:

lastexit78 said:

PJPOWER said:

lastexit78 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

lastexit78 said:

The fact that this is even a debatable topic says everything you need to know about why we are where we are at. These vaccines have been injected in hundreds of thousands of people already with virtually zero side effects. Also vaccine side effects don’t randomly show up years later, that’s a fallacy that some will use to ague their anti vaccine stance. Tragically and I guess in a sick way thankfully we are likely approaching 100 million cases. CDC thinks we’ve captured 1/8 of cases which based on most other studies I’ve read is probably fairly accurate. By the time a vaccine gets to most of us we’ll likely be approaching 40% herd immunity. So if even half of the other say 200 million who haven’t been infected took the vaccine we’d probably be in the 70% range. With the other 30% continuing to get naturally infected at a much smaller rate for the next few years. At that point it comes down to length of immunity, so far reinfections are rare and most scientists seem to believe immunity is at least a year. Bottom line, not taking the vaccine just delays any sort of recovery, either by months or potentially years. I hope by the middle of next year we can start sorting new infections by vaccine or non vaccine. That might be the only way some people get a clue, when 90% of new infections are from the unvaccinated maybe the message will hit home. Especially if people are still dying at a decent clip.






Do you have sources to back up these statements?
(And, I'm not an anti-vaxxxer, just want to learn more as I don't trust the greedy fuckers nor the politicians.  (Aren't they the same?))

I’m not going to claim to be an expert, I’ve just researched and listened to a lot of scientist over the past 9 months, probably not unlike most of you. Bottom line is vaccine side effects are very likely to be minor. Pretty much as an above mentioned NBC article talks about. As for herd immunity we are not close, but at 150k plus confirmed cases a day we are likely steamrolling towards it faster than Sweden. Which is hard to fathom based on the differences in our responses. If anyone uses twitter and is looking for a good scientific based information source check out Dr. Faheem Younus. There’s a lot of doctors reporting from the front lines but I think he’s maybe the best. You can find stuff from him and other doctors all over the internet. Even Fauci who has made some honest mistakes is a reliable source for common sense measures, there’s a ton of his interviews all over the place. I try to stay away from the mainstream media in most cases as they are manipulating data to serve their own narrative. Just do an internet search for unbiased COVID news and seek out the ones you think are the most legitimate. I have a bunch bookmarked but you can decide for yourself where the legit facts can be found. Watching CNN or god forbid Fox News is not going to get you anything but sensationalism. They are going to scare you with rare reinfections cases, or the handful of children who have died. Or in the case of Fox News try and tell you it’s a hoax and everything is fine. I’m exaggerating but you get my point. 

Dr. Faheem Younus
https://mobile.twitter.com/faheemyounus?lang=en

Also an extensive vaccine side effect run down from the CDC 
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/side-effects.htm

Something doesn’t sit well for me with that line...”handful of children”?  I sure hope no one creating vaccines throws out lines like that.  “Meh, it’s only going to effect a handful of children”.  Some impacts should never be minimized (in my opinion).

More than a “handful of children” are going to be permanently scarred for life if this thing drags on for another year plus. My son hasn’t seen most of his his friends or been to school since March. Overall he’s doing well but I see issues like childhood obesity escalating out of control. Not to mention the psychological damage to so many, including teens who are missing out on the defining moments of their life. In regards to vaccines children would be the last to receive it and I would certainly make sure there was no adverse side effects before letting my son get injected. There are 7 plus billion people on this planet, most every action we do on a daily basis could have some negative outcome. It’s why we have seat belts, the FAA, MRI scanning machines, GFI outlets, etc, etc. We are fragile beings with a limited life cycle, dangers lurk around every corner. But we’ve managed to reduce most to a manageable level through science and innovation. Vaccines have literally saved millions of lives over the past century and yet somehow this is a real debate in this country. 

You hit the nail about my concerns regarding children as well.  One thing I’ve been concerned with is emotional development for the infants that are in daycare.  Facial expressions are so important in infant emotional development and they are not getting that with daycare workers wearing masks.  The longer this stuff drags on, the more emotional dev delays and probably are bound to become apparent.  So many ripples that will last for generations...

interesting you say this. My wife works in child care and she's very concerned about this as well. 

PJ_Soul said:

SPEEDY MCCREADY said:

Anyone entering the USA? Should they be allowed in our country without being vaccinated?

I can't really speak for the USA, but I would definitely hope that Canada would require that.

I don't think forced vaccinations will be a thing (though I wouldn't be opposed to it - I actually believe that other vaccinations for children should be mandatory, and yes, I know how controversial that view is!). I do think there should and likely will be repercussions for those who choose not to get it though, beyond being kept from traveling to some international destinations, and yes, I think businesses should be able to refuse entry to those who haven't got it. No business should be forced into being a venue for transmission among those who aren't vaccinated.

But how would one know who did or didn’t receive it?

(sorry, and likely a far stretch, but my mind went to the old yellow stars forced to be worn by Jews in the 30s and 40s)