Biden vs Trump 2020 - vote now and discuss!

brianlux · June 2020

Biden

cincybearcat said:

brianlux said:

I find the whole discussion about whites feeling the need to say "I am racist" (or the very taboo saying that, "I am not a racist") interesting. I honestly don't get it. I guess it has something to do with white guilt.

I have lived in around people of many different cultures. Right now I live in a very predominantly white neighborhood. To be honest, from a cultural standpoint, I find that rather dull and uninteresting. On the other end of the spectrum, for a year, I lived in one of two high rise apartments buildings in a predominantly black neighborhood. My building was something like 5% white. That was a lot more interesting. Especially the time the black dude on the third floor bought a few records from me for about a buck apiece and then handed me a handful of drugs. I left the drugs on the counter in my apartment and while I was away the next day, a guy who was crashing on my living room floor took them all at once and said he had a great trip. Good for him. But anyway, that year was pretty much like any other back then. Better than some, not as good as others.

To me, people are basically great, OK, or awful. I've dealt with all three types in all colors. I've been assaulted twice. Once by a black guy and once by a white guy. They were both assholes. Assholes come in all kinds of colors. Fuck them all. But I honestly have to say, the percentage of white assholes I've run into seems to have been higher than the percentage of black assholes. Maybe that's because I got bullied a lot by other white guys in school. The black dudes at my school never gave me shit. Go figure.

Years ago, I needed some transportation so a friend of mine loaned me his white Vespa scooter and told me I had to wear his helmet. It was also white. So was I. I drove through a black neighborhood and on one block, this huge black dude on a bicycle saw me and started riding toward me. I couldn't get the damn scooter to down-shift and I was creeping at about 3 MPH in high gear and the guy kept getting closer and closer and he had a look that could kill. That guy was an asshole. Fuck that guy. Somehow, I got away. But then later that same year a white guy with a similar look of hate tried to run over me on Geary Street. That guy was also an asshole. Fuck that guy too.

See what I mean? Great people, OK people, assholes. Black, white, red, yellow, brown, tan. Love 'em or fuck 'em.

Yeah, life is easier for me as a white guy than it would be as a black man or woman. I know that. I don't pretend it's not true. And honestly, I don't think we as whites deserve that. But I didn't make myself white and I don't see myself as superior because of my color and I'm not going to label myself a racist. Fuck that.

Interesting stories. I will say the comment that stuck out to me was this though:
"Yeah, life is easier for me as a white guy than it would be as a black man or woman. I know that. I don't pretend it's not true. And honestly, I don't think we as whites deserve that."

For me, it's not that whites don't deserve that, it's that everyone does. Those things in your (and my) life that are easier...everyone deserves that.

That's a good way to put it. Or you could say that nobody deserves things that make life easier. I'm not so sure that life should be easy. Easy doesn't teach us anything. It rarely leads us to appreciate what we have. And it is impossible for everyone to have it in a world with 7.8 billion people (and growing) on it.

Glorified KC · June 2020

Biden

HughFreakingDillon said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

brianlux said:

tbergs said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

mrussel1 said:

static111 said:

cincybearcat said:

static111 said:

Icincybearcat said:

pjl44 said:

The Juggler said:

Not surprisingly, like calling it defunding police, these far left folks have gone too far with the monuments and are shooting themselves in their collective foot again.

Morons.

They're coming for Jesus next.

They simply cannot her out of their own way. They cannot focus.

Who is they

People who want trump to be defeated.

i can see now what it looked like I was saying. I wasn’t. Good question and thanks for letting me clarify.

If trump gets re-elected because people want to defend statues of a white jesus then that doesn’t really exactly say a lot about Biden as a candidate or America as a whole.

C'mon... you know that's not how people who sit on the fence politically think. The common mindset is that they are going WAY too far by pulling them down, plus it's iconoclastic. That's what the Taliban and the Soviets do. The question would be..where does it stop? Confederates...yes. Makes sense. Then they see Grant..then SRV..then Jesus. You have to see the political danger in that. If the left, broadly supports that, we're done.

Yep. An older voter looks at this shit wondering “Where are the adults?” Hell, I’m in my late 30’s and I’m thinking that. And it’s not just the vandalism. It’s all getting pretty fucking Orwellian. Tearing down statues, removing films like Gone With The Wind from streaming services, attempts to silence or shame dissenting voices, and most of all, powerful tech companies controlling the dissemination of information.

Wait, they pulled Gone With the Wind? When did that happen? Sheesh.

I've heard that a number of time but you can still get GWTW through Netflix- on both DVD and Blu-ray. Pretty ridiculous when movie start being banned. But then, I don't believe in censorship of any kind and I'm definitely not a racist.

Whoa, whoa, watch it. This lady doesn't want white people saying they're not racist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZfiSjTHVqA&t=45s

i can't say i disagree with her. I think the path to reconciliation means we, as the historical oppressor, and by that I mean I am not a conscious oppressor, but an oppressor by culture and lineage, need to listen. we need to go beyond the line to understand what it means to be who we are and who we all strive to be as a collective. am i racist? i don't think i am. but to a black person, i might be because of things i've said or done in the past that either were acceptable because of the time, or present company, or excuse of humour, etc, i absolutely could be. "i have black/brown friends" isn't an acceptable excuse anymore, if it ever even was.

we owe it to them to listen and make sure they know they are heard.

can you imagine being fearful leaving the house every day? maybe not active fear, but back of your mind fear. being a white male, it's something i can't fathom. i have daughters. i worry (only slightly) about them going down the street to get a slurpee. i live in canada. i can't imagine being the father of black daughter, or black sons in the US. i'd be a goddamn wreck.

This ^

pjl44 · June 2020

I'm sitting this one out

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Are there statues of Jesus? The only one I can think of is the one in Brazil. There’s a lot of Mary in front of churches but I can’t think of a time or place where I’ve seen a statue of Jesus outside of a church in a public space.

Who knows, probably not in many public spaces, if any. But they will be all over church grounds. Which of course would be trespassing, along with assorted other crimes. I probably shouldn't get too worked up because this is just a case of Shaun King trying to be as radical as possible. And PJ44 getting my blood pressure up.

I just let out a hearty laugh when I read his post. You would just roll your eyes if it was some rando, but that guy still has an audience despite seemingly a lot of corruption.

I can even get with the Jesus-wasn't-white argument. He was born in Nazareth and, as someone who has been to the area, I would not describe the local population as white. Maybe things were different 2,000 years ago.

Now if one wants to start a movement that entails pulling down statues, portraits, and stained glass in churches across the country, I say gooooooood luck to you sir.

Edit: If you're interested in a thorough takedown of Shaun King, read DeRay Mckesson:
https://medium.com/@deray/on-shaun-king-351bd812318c

mickeyrat · June 2020

Biden

pjl44 said:

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Are there statues of Jesus? The only one I can think of is the one in Brazil. There’s a lot of Mary in front of churches but I can’t think of a time or place where I’ve seen a statue of Jesus outside of a church in a public space.

Who knows, probably not in many public spaces, if any. But they will be all over church grounds. Which of course would be trespassing, along with assorted other crimes. I probably shouldn't get too worked up because this is just a case of Shaun King trying to be as radical as possible. And PJ44 getting my blood pressure up.

I just let out a hearty laugh when I read his post. You would just roll your eyes if it was some rando, but that guy still has an audience despite seemingly a lot of corruption.

I can even get with the Jesus-wasn't-white argument. He was born in Nazareth and, as someone who has been to the area, I would not describe the local population as white. Maybe things were different 2,000 years ago.

Now if one wants to start a movement that entails pulling down statues, portraits, and stained glass in churches across the country, I say gooooooood luck to you sir.

Edit: If you're interested in a thorough takedown of Shaun King, read DeRay Mckesson:
https://medium.com/@deray/on-shaun-king-351bd812318c

wow.

Ledbetterman10 · June 2020

Biden

I'm tellin' ya, Biden's going to win Texas. I've been saying it. I think this will be the biggest electoral victory since Reagan over Dukakis....if Biden and whoever's running the show doesn't fuck it up.

dignin · June 2020

Biden Takes Dominant Lead as Voters Reject Trump on Virus and Race

A New York Times/Siena College poll finds that Joseph R. Biden Jr. is ahead of the president by 14 points, leading among women and nonwhite voters and cutting into his support with white voters.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/24/us/politics/trump-biden-poll-nyt-upshot-siena-college.html

mrussel1 · June 2020

Biden

Ledbetterman10 said:

I'm tellin' ya, Biden's going to win Texas. I've been saying it. I think this will be the biggest electoral victory since Reagan over Dukakis....if Biden and whoever's running the show doesn't fuck it up.

Bold prediction. If it's even within a few points, it will be a wipeout nationally.

OnWis97 · June 2020

Biden

Plenty of time left. Both sides are just losing it for themselves.* Biden's strategy of letting Trump be himself seems to be working.

But I'm really nervous about "defund the police" and all of the vandalism of statues. It doesn't really matter what Biden says. This election is not about Biden. It's about 1) a referendum on Trump and 2) red/blue ideology. Right now a lot of talk and action from protestors (and some Democratic state and local officials) could scare a lot of comfortable white people into voting for Trump. The more it's a referendum on Trump, the better. The more it's about red/blue ideology, the worse.

*Well, Biden's not really (though he's not a strong candidate) but "the left" is. And the other thing is that Trump haters seem to already be celebrating. I wish there was some history that would caution them not to do that; like recent history; like within the last four or so years.

And I haven't even mentioned the cheating, the keeping one polling place open for every 100,000 people in the city and one for every 10 people in the country, and the stacked courts.

I still won't believe Trump loses a second before it's official. And even if he loses, I won't believe he's not going to retain the office until the moment Biden is sworn in.

EDIT: And just wait until NFL players start kneeling...

static111 · June 2020

Biden

Ledbetterman10 said:

I'm tellin' ya, Biden's going to win Texas. I've been saying it. I think this will be the biggest electoral victory since Reagan over Dukakis....if Biden and whoever's running the show doesn't fuck it up.

If Biden loses they will blame the progressives and the left, believe me the official line will be it was not the fault of the DNC or Biden it will be because the left and progressives didn’t fall in line.

mrussel1 · June 2020

Biden

static111 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

I'm tellin' ya, Biden's going to win Texas. I've been saying it. I think this will be the biggest electoral victory since Reagan over Dukakis....if Biden and whoever's running the show doesn't fuck it up.

If Biden loses they will blame the progressives and the left, believe me the official line will be it was not the fault of the DNC or Biden it will be because the left and progressives didn’t fall in line.

Well I think we would wait to see the analysis before casting blame. But if a big number of Bernie voters stayed home, then the shoe would fit, at least partially.

Ledbetterman10 · June 2020

Biden

OnWis97 said:

Plenty of time left. Both sides are just losing it for themselves.* Biden's strategy of letting Trump be himself seems to be working.

But I'm really nervous about "defund the police" and all of the vandalism of statues. It doesn't really matter what Biden says. This election is not about Biden. It's about 1) a referendum on Trump and 2) red/blue ideology. Right now a lot of talk and action from protestors (and some Democratic state and local officials) could scare a lot of comfortable white people into voting for Trump. The more it's a referendum on Trump, the better. The more it's about red/blue ideology, the worse.

*Well, Biden's not really (though he's not a strong candidate) but "the left" is. And the other thing is that Trump haters seem to already be celebrating. I wish there was some history that would caution them not to do that; like recent history; like within the last four or so years.

And I haven't even mentioned the cheating, the keeping one polling place open for every 100,000 people in the city and one for every 10 people in the country, and the stacked courts.

I still won't believe Trump loses a second before it's official. And even if he loses, I won't believe he's not going to retain the office until the moment Biden is sworn in.

I would totally be voting for the Republican if it wasn't Trump, as I would've in 2016. But the "referendum on Trump" outweighs the "red/blue ideology" for me. But like you're saying, it might not be like that for everyone.

I wonder how many "comfortable white people" even know how crazy things are getting. My father, a life-long Democrat that faithfully watches MSNBC, knew that they were tearing down confederate statues, but he had no idea that a George Washington statue was torn down and lit on fire, he didn't know that De Blasio is going to take down a Teddy Roosevelt statue in NYC, and the one that seemed to irk my father the most, the fact that they tore down a Ulysses S. Grant statue. All this won't cause him to vote for Trump, but a fellow 72-year-old Democrat might consider it after seeing some of this shit.

pjl44 · June 2020

I'm sitting this one out

static111 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

I'm tellin' ya, Biden's going to win Texas. I've been saying it. I think this will be the biggest electoral victory since Reagan over Dukakis....if Biden and whoever's running the show doesn't fuck it up.

If Biden loses they will blame the progressives and the left, believe me the official line will be it was not the fault of the DNC or Biden it will be because the left and progressives didn’t fall in line.

At this point I'm almost wistful for the times of Russia paranoia because I could at least go to baseball games

static111 · June 2020

Biden

mrussel1 said:

static111 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

I'm tellin' ya, Biden's going to win Texas. I've been saying it. I think this will be the biggest electoral victory since Reagan over Dukakis....if Biden and whoever's running the show doesn't fuck it up.

If Biden loses they will blame the progressives and the left, believe me the official line will be it was not the fault of the DNC or Biden it will be because the left and progressives didn’t fall in line.

Well I think we would wait to see the analysis before casting blame. But if a big number of Bernie voters stayed home, then the shoe would fit, at least partially.

I think Biden is doing a good job moving to the left, I also think I fnm he did a little more there would be no worry about getting the left side of the party to show up. I think the fear is alienating the right side of the party? Which is odd because if he lost by catering to the left I don’t think a lot of people would be lining up to place blame on the right center part of the party if they didn’t show up. It would more than likely still be blaming the left for pulling the conversation too far.

OnWis97 · June 2020

Biden

mrussel1 said:

static111 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

I'm tellin' ya, Biden's going to win Texas. I've been saying it. I think this will be the biggest electoral victory since Reagan over Dukakis....if Biden and whoever's running the show doesn't fuck it up.

If Biden loses they will blame the progressives and the left, believe me the official line will be it was not the fault of the DNC or Biden it will be because the left and progressives didn’t fall in line.

Well I think we would wait to see the analysis before casting blame. But if a big number of Bernie voters stayed home, then the shoe would fit, at least partially.

Yeah. There are a lot of people on the "hard left" that, while they have no love for Trump, their true disdain is for the moderate left. I still think some of them hope Trump wins, out off spite. Others know they'd prefer Biden but refuse to vote for him. And some will hold their noses and vote for Biden against Trump.

Remember, while we knew really early in the evening that Trump was the winner, it was because of small margins in several states. It doesn't take much "purity" to make a difference. The right is united. The left is fractured.

pjl44 · June 2020

I'm sitting this one out

mrussel1 said:

static111 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

I'm tellin' ya, Biden's going to win Texas. I've been saying it. I think this will be the biggest electoral victory since Reagan over Dukakis....if Biden and whoever's running the show doesn't fuck it up.

If Biden loses they will blame the progressives and the left, believe me the official line will be it was not the fault of the DNC or Biden it will be because the left and progressives didn’t fall in line.

Well I think we would wait to see the analysis before casting blame. But if a big number of Bernie voters stayed home, then the shoe would fit, at least partially.

And if that happens, maaaaybe the party could have some soul-searching about why they're not influencing voters instead of scolding them. Looking like a big if right now, though.

OnWis97 · June 2020

Biden

Ledbetterman10 said:

I'm tellin' ya, Biden's going to win Texas. I've been saying it. I think this will be the biggest electoral victory since Reagan over Dukakis....if Biden and whoever's running the show doesn't fuck it up.

Mondale. He won his home state (Minnesota) and DC. Dukakis lost to Bush the First.

I don't know that we'll ever see a victory like that again. We're too divided. The Electoral College prevents the GOP from being blown out like that. And states dominated by big cities make it difficult for the Dems to be blown out like that.

If this is a blowout, the loser won't win just one state. I could see Trump winning about 40 states. I still think he wins.

Ledbetterman10 · June 2020

Biden

OnWis97 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

I'm tellin' ya, Biden's going to win Texas. I've been saying it. I think this will be the biggest electoral victory since Reagan over Dukakis....if Biden and whoever's running the show doesn't fuck it up.

Mondale. He won his home state (Minnesota) and DC. Dukakis lost to Bush the First.

I don't know that we'll ever see a victory like that again. We're too divided. The Electoral College prevents the GOP from being blown out like that. And states dominated by big cities make it difficult for the Dems to be blown out like that.

If this is a blowout, the loser won't win just one state. I could see Trump winning about 40 states. I still think he wins.

My bad. I mean to say Bush/Dukakis. Yeah I don't think it can ever be as big as a blowout as Reagan/Mondale, but if Biden can actually flip Texas and Florida, maybe a Bush/Dukakis type of victory is possible.

I've long said the Trump was a shoo-in to be reelected. Now, I'm not so sure. Not just because of the polls, but Trump is managing to anger nearly everybody right now. Of course the left hates him. But independents and moderate Republicans have to be down on his Covoid response and/or how he's not doing anything about the vandalism/looting/violence. Tucker Carlson said it best, "If Republicans aren't going to protect you, what's the point of voting for them? Because you like foreign wars? Because you like sucking up to big banks?" If Republicans are perceiving that the "law and order" president can't protect shit, then he's lost them.

The curiosity of who Biden will pick as his running mate is killing me. Because I do think it'll matter here more than in most elections because of Biden's age.

mrussel1 · June 2020

Biden

static111 said:

mrussel1 said:

static111 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

I'm tellin' ya, Biden's going to win Texas. I've been saying it. I think this will be the biggest electoral victory since Reagan over Dukakis....if Biden and whoever's running the show doesn't fuck it up.

If Biden loses they will blame the progressives and the left, believe me the official line will be it was not the fault of the DNC or Biden it will be because the left and progressives didn’t fall in line.

Well I think we would wait to see the analysis before casting blame. But if a big number of Bernie voters stayed home, then the shoe would fit, at least partially.

I think Biden is doing a good job moving to the left, I also think I fnm he did a little more there would be no worry about getting the left side of the party to show up. I think the fear is alienating the right side of the party? Which is odd because if he lost by catering to the left I don’t think a lot of people would be lining up to place blame on the right center part of the party if they didn’t show up. It would more than likely still be blaming the left for pulling the conversation too far.

I really don't see the right side of the party (which is basically a center-left position) staying home or flipping to Trump. I'm right in the heart of that and most of my friends/co workers fall into that category. No one is staying home or voting Trump. Center left votes as we're generally a bit older. We're the ones that went to the primaries. So I'm honestly not too concerned about that. You still have "Democrats" in the rust belt who are Trump voters and were Bush voters too. They are D in name only, truly. They vote R but just never changed registration.

There's going to be a portion of left people who don't vote. They never do, so I'm not expecting them to come out. If they do, then great. I'm talking more about the actual primary voters who end up not voting in the general.

OnWis97 · June 2020

Biden

Ledbetterman10 said:

OnWis97 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

I'm tellin' ya, Biden's going to win Texas. I've been saying it. I think this will be the biggest electoral victory since Reagan over Dukakis....if Biden and whoever's running the show doesn't fuck it up.

Mondale. He won his home state (Minnesota) and DC. Dukakis lost to Bush the First.

I don't know that we'll ever see a victory like that again. We're too divided. The Electoral College prevents the GOP from being blown out like that. And states dominated by big cities make it difficult for the Dems to be blown out like that.

If this is a blowout, the loser won't win just one state. I could see Trump winning about 40 states. I still think he wins.

My bad. I mean to say Bush/Dukakis. Yeah I don't think it can ever be as big as a blowout as Reagan/Mondale, but if Biden can actually flip Texas and Florida, maybe a Bush/Dukakis type of victory is possible.

I've long said the Trump was a shoo-in to be reelected. Now, I'm not so sure. Not just because of the polls, but Trump is managing to anger nearly everybody right now. Of course the left hates him. But independents and moderate Republicans have to be down on his Covoid response and/or how he's not doing anything about the vandalism/looting/violence. Tucker Carlson said it best, "If Republicans aren't going to protect you, what's the point of voting for them? Because you like foreign wars? Because you like sucking up to big banks?" If Republicans are perceiving that the "law and order" president can't protect shit, then he's lost them.

The curiosity of who Biden will pick as his running mate is killing me. Because I do think it'll matter here more than in most elections because of Biden's age.

This and whether Trump will dump Pence. We're dealing with two candidates who are old (and really seem old, too). Aside from being religious, Pence doesn't represent a ton of the movement that elected Trump (non-politician, not part of the establishment, draining the swamp). I agree that the running mates may play a role. Especially Biden, since my guess is that if he wins, he's not going to even run for a second term (if he's still alive) regardless of how things go. Pence? I don't see him ever being president (well, at least not elected president). There's not going to be much thought that a vote for Trump impacts the 2024 election, when the GOP will either nominate a Trump offspring or sort of start out fresh with Dan Crenshaw or someone. A vote for Biden is a vote to move his running mate to the forefront. I have nooooooo idea who it's going to be anymore (aside from female). The more time goes on the more I'd pick my guess out of a hat.

Ledbetterman10 · June 2020

Biden

OnWis97 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

OnWis97 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

I'm tellin' ya, Biden's going to win Texas. I've been saying it. I think this will be the biggest electoral victory since Reagan over Dukakis....if Biden and whoever's running the show doesn't fuck it up.

Mondale. He won his home state (Minnesota) and DC. Dukakis lost to Bush the First.

I don't know that we'll ever see a victory like that again. We're too divided. The Electoral College prevents the GOP from being blown out like that. And states dominated by big cities make it difficult for the Dems to be blown out like that.

If this is a blowout, the loser won't win just one state. I could see Trump winning about 40 states. I still think he wins.

My bad. I mean to say Bush/Dukakis. Yeah I don't think it can ever be as big as a blowout as Reagan/Mondale, but if Biden can actually flip Texas and Florida, maybe a Bush/Dukakis type of victory is possible.

I've long said the Trump was a shoo-in to be reelected. Now, I'm not so sure. Not just because of the polls, but Trump is managing to anger nearly everybody right now. Of course the left hates him. But independents and moderate Republicans have to be down on his Covoid response and/or how he's not doing anything about the vandalism/looting/violence. Tucker Carlson said it best, "If Republicans aren't going to protect you, what's the point of voting for them? Because you like foreign wars? Because you like sucking up to big banks?" If Republicans are perceiving that the "law and order" president can't protect shit, then he's lost them.

The curiosity of who Biden will pick as his running mate is killing me. Because I do think it'll matter here more than in most elections because of Biden's age.

This and whether Trump will dump Pence. We're dealing with two candidates who are old (and really seem old, too). Aside from being religious, Pence doesn't represent a ton of the movement that elected Trump (non-politician, not part of the establishment, draining the swamp). I agree that the running mates may play a role. Especially Biden, since my guess is that if he wins, he's not going to even run for a second term (if he's still alive) regardless of how things go. Pence? I don't see him ever being president (well, at least not elected president). There's not going to be much thought that a vote for Trump impacts the 2024 election, when the GOP will either nominate a Trump offspring or sort of start out fresh with Dan Crenshaw or someone. A vote for Biden is a vote to move his running mate to the forefront. I have nooooooo idea who it's going to be anymore (aside from female). The more time goes on the more I'd pick my guess out of a hat.

That might not be such a bad thing for Pence at this point. While many Trump voters were voting for him to drain the swamp, etc, many others (most, I think) were just Republicans that vote for the Republican. I think if Trump were to keel over and die, they'd be fine with Pence. And I think Pence would be accepted by Trump fanatics too simply on the basis of he was picked by Trump. In short, I think the person that's fine with President Trump would be fine with President Pence. I can live with President Biden, but I don't want anything to do with President Harris, President Bottoms, or President Warren. But that's just me. The enthusiastic Biden voter (if there are any) might be fine with whoever his running mate is becoming President.

Biden vs Trump 2020 - vote now and discuss!

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Biden Takes Dominant Lead as Voters Reject Trump on Virus and Race

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