Biden vs Trump 2020 - vote now and discuss!

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  • JimmyVJimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,388
    Biden
    If you assume this one is true, would you then not have to assume the 20+ Trump accusations are true too? 

    I mean there really is no way of knowing for sure either way. But it's like Al Franken verse Bill Cosby to some extent here....one is clearly worse than the other in my mind. 

    I'm not assuming anything. I'm saying that if we FIND OUT THAT THIS IS TRUE then I won't be voting for Biden. Full stop.
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  • The JugglerThe Juggler Posts: 49,569
    Biden
    I would have voted for Biden roughly 15 to 17 times in November if I was american.

    Just want to make sure on this forum.

    I wish everyone would. But I also believe that fundamentally no one in a democracy should be forced to vote for something. I think that goes against the very essence of democracy. So the better thing in "a perfect world" with a system with only two choices, would be for the Biden-voters to argue for and get 2-3 people to vote for him too, to cover up for those choosing to vote with their heart for something else (green party, vote blank etc). And respect that. 

    But I also understand what is at stake "in the real world" come this fall.

    Because believe it or not, but your choice of president affects the whole world ("leader of the free world", etc)
    This just in!


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  • tbergstbergs Posts: 10,218
    edited April 2020
    Biden
    JimmyV said:
    If.
    This.
    Is.
    True...

    There's still time for the Democrats to do something about this. I have no idea what, but Biden won't officially be the nominee until this summer and the election isn't until the fall. Biden's name isn't written in blood anywhere.
    It will never be proven true or false. There is no evidence. Everyone involved knows this. Based on the people claiming to have been told about this by Reade, there should be plenty of reasons to pursue charges and let a jury decide if it even goes that far. An allegation is just that until proven otherwise. At least follow the legal measures in place. Yeah, I get it, the justice system is flawed, but it's in place to help prevent people from being wrongfully accused and for victims to seek some sort of legal ramification.

    I am inclined to believe victims who come forward and in that same breath we also know that an extreme action like the one Biden is being accused of is usually not just a one-off incident. There should be plenty of other red flags of aggressive physical contact and behavior (go ahead and cue the shoulder rubs and hair sniffing - those aren't on the same level). Just look at any other high profile individual who has allegations made against them. There are several private accusations and public instances that corroborate their pattern of physically aggressive behavior.

    Anyway, if this is somehow proven to be true, Biden would need to do a lot to keep my vote and should probably withdraw. It's not a purity test, it's just the right thing to do. We already have a sexual predator in the office who has bought his way out of everything, no way should we ever be promoting a legally proven sexual predator no matter how many years ago it happened.

    In an ideal world, Trump and Biden supporters would learn to abandon their candidate and seek a 3rd party or replacement to the establishment's choice, but we know all that will get us is an asshole republican every time.
    Post edited by tbergs on
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,364
    Biden
    pjl44 said:
    Pick Jared Polis as VP? The Democrats this cycle, Biden included, haven't really focused on issues that I look to them for - less militarism, criminal justice reform, drug policy. There's been much more of a focus on stuff I disagree with - government run health care to varying degrees, student loan forgiveness, etc. A lot of stuff that I think is bad economic policy.
    that is rich, considering we are in the midst of economic collapse right now and trump has already played the biggest guns that could potentially save it.

    but don't vote for biden or the democrats. 
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • The JugglerThe Juggler Posts: 49,569
    edited April 2020
    Biden
    JimmyV said:

    I'm not assuming anything. I'm saying that if we FIND OUT THAT THIS IS TRUE then I won't be voting for Biden. Full stop.
    Yeah but what if we find out Trump's 20+ accusations are true though? To make it fair, what would you do in that situation? 

    We're talking about a he said/she said from 30 years ago (and in Trump's case within the last 10-15 years). We will never know for sure either way. 
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  • The JugglerThe Juggler Posts: 49,569
    edited April 2020
    Biden
    Business Insider is really on top of these stories...

    https://www.businessinsider.com/women-accused-trump-sexual-misconduct-list-2017-12#karena-virginia-9

    The 25 women who have accused Trump of sexual misconduct

    Rachel Crooks left Jessica Leeds center and Samantha Holvey attend a news conference Monday Dec 11 2017 in New York to discuss their accusations of sexual misconduct against Donald Trump
    Rachel Crooks, left, Jessica Leeds, center, and Samantha Holvey attend a news conference, Monday, Dec. 11, 2017, in New York to discuss their accusations of sexual misconduct against Donald Trump. 
    Mark Lennihan/AP Images
    • At least 25 women have accused President Donald Trump of sexual misconduct since the 1970s.
    • Renewed attention has been brought to the allegations amid the #MeToo movement and a national conversation concerning sexual misconduct.
    • Trump has repeatedly denied the accusations, denouncing his accusers as "liars."
    • In June 2019, columnist E. Jean Carroll accused President Donald Trump of sexually assaulting her in a Bergdorf Goodman dressing room the mid-1990s.
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  • pjl44pjl44 Posts: 10,155
    I'm sitting this one out
    that is rich, considering we are in the midst of economic collapse right now and trump has already played the biggest guns that could potentially save it.

    but don't vote for biden or the democrats. 
    Everyone knows why the economy is collapsing. Heaping trillions more on the debt looks even crazier now. It will be interesting to see if/how Democrats try to pitch those initiatives with the price tags.
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,364
    Biden
    pjl44 said:
    Everyone knows why the economy is collapsing. Heaping trillions more on the debt looks even crazier now. It will be interesting to see if/how Democrats try to pitch those initiatives with the price tags.
    medicare for all is DOA, so there is that. will probably strengthen obamacare which will be much less expensive. corporations will be taxed more, as will millionaires and billionaires, so there is that.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • dignindignin Posts: 9,467
    edited April 2020
    pjl44 said:
    Everyone knows why the economy is collapsing. Heaping trillions more on the debt looks even crazier now. It will be interesting to see if/how Democrats try to pitch those initiatives with the price tags.
    Universal healthcare should be easy to pitch because it's cheaper than private. If Americans could look at it logically.

    Edit: especially during a pandemic
  • JimmyVJimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,388
    Biden
    My worry is that some Democratic strategist who has been wrong about everything since Al Gore gets in Biden's ear and convinces him that he needs to get in front of this by saying something, by taking responsibility for something, by apologizing for something, and we get a tear-filled interview in which Biden apologizes for "mistakes" in the past but never states what those are, etc, as if that will fix anything. And I worry about this even if he didn't do it, and I remain unconvinced that he did. Hell, Al Franken apologized and ever since has been claiming he didn't do it. 
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 40,778
    edited April 2020
    Yeah but what if we find out Trump's 20+ accusations are true though? To make it fair, what would you do in that situation? 

    We're talking about a he said/she said from 30 years ago (and in Trump's case within the last 10-15 years). We will never know for sure either way. 
    Well, the 12% of Bernie dem primary voters who voted for Team Trump Treason shouldn’t have any guilt voting for Sleepy Woke Joe.
    Post edited by Halifax2TheMax on
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  • static111static111 Posts: 4,889
    Biden
    dignin said:
    Universal healthcare should be easy to pitch because it's cheaper than private. If Americans could look at it logically.

    Edit: especially during a pandemic
    America was not founded on logic.
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  • JimmyVJimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,388
    Biden
    Yeah but what if we find out Trump's 20+ accusations are true though? To make it fair, what would you do in that situation? 

    We're talking about a he said/she said from 30 years ago (and in Trump's case within the last 10-15 years). We will never know for sure either way. 

    "Yeah but Trump" is not going to work here. If we find out that Biden did this, he should not be the nominee. None of us should have to vote for him to defeat Trump.
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • JimmyVJimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,388
    Biden
    static111 said:
    America was not founded on logic.

    Nor does it rely on logic very often.
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,194
    edited April 2020
    d
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • pjl44pjl44 Posts: 10,155
    I'm sitting this one out
    dignin said:
    Universal healthcare should be easy to pitch because it's cheaper than private. If Americans could look at it logically.

    Edit: especially during a pandemic
    Here are the hurdles, as I see them today:

    - The federal government has performed horribly managing public health here
    - Private insurance companies are covering COVID 100% while Medicare is still requiring beneficiaries to pay applicable deductibles and coinsurance for treatment 
    - It is not cheaper than private. Studies that show that make multiple assumptions that range from challenging to crazy.
    - VT and CA explored implementing it and couldn't overcome the cost hurdle
    - M4A polls favorably as long as it's optional. If it's replacing private insurance, people line up against it hard.
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,364
    Biden
    JimmyV said:

    "Yeah but Trump" is not going to work here. If we find out that Biden did this, he should not be the nominee. None of us should have to vote for him to defeat Trump.
    there's that purity test again.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • The JugglerThe Juggler Posts: 49,569
    Biden
    JimmyV said:

    "Yeah but Trump" is not going to work here. If we find out that Biden did this, he should not be the nominee. None of us should have to vote for him to defeat Trump.
    But what if he is? He likely will be.

    You are making an assumption that we find out Biden's accusation is true. How is not reasonable to then ask the same question about Trump's 25 accusations?




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  • OnWis97OnWis97 St. Paul, MN Posts: 5,468
    Biden
    medicare for all is DOA, so there is that. will probably strengthen obamacare which will be much less expensive. corporations will be taxed more, as will millionaires and billionaires, so there is that.

    But never, ever, ever to pre-Reagan levels. 
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  • JimmyVJimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,388
    Biden
    there's that purity test again.
    Yes, you do need to be little more pure than a known sex offender. And if this turns out to be true, that's what he'll be.
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • cutzcutz Posts: 12,040
    edited April 2020
    sorry, but at this time in history, in america we do not have time for your purity test. we either vote biden, or trump wins again. i do not see what is so difficult to comprehend. you can't vote here, so do not shame the rest of us for trying to improve our country.
    ^^^
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 30,516
    Biden
    dignin said:
    Universal healthcare should be easy to pitch because it's cheaper than private. If Americans could look at it logically.

    Edit: especially during a pandemic
    Cheaper for who? At the top line,  how do we know it's cheaper? I think many assume it will be cheaper for them personally,  but in theory if you're above the median income line,  you may end up paying more than private,  since it would likely be a progressive tax structure. 
  • mfc2006mfc2006 HTOWN Posts: 37,489
    Biden
    Trump needs to lose. Biden wasn't my first choice, but he is the presumptive nominee. So, it looks like I'll be voting for Biden.
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  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,194
    Has Bloomberg given any money to Biden? 
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • The JugglerThe Juggler Posts: 49,569
    Biden
    JimmyV said:
    Yes, you do need to be little more pure than a known sex offender. And if this turns out to be true, that's what he'll be.
    Why are you afraid to answer my question? I'll ask again:

    What if we find out this accusation is true....and then we also find out all of Trump's 25 accusations are true.

    Both are the nominees.

    What would you do?
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  • FiveBelowFiveBelow Posts: 1,315
    I'm sitting this one out
    Why are you afraid to answer my question? I'll ask again:

    What if we find out this accusation is true....and then we also find out all of Trump's 25 accusations are true.

    Both are the nominees.

    What would you do?
    I wouldn't blame anyone for choosing not to vote for someone who potentially assaults women, 1 or 20 it doesn't matter.
  • tbergstbergs Posts: 10,218
    edited April 2020
    Biden
    I'd personally boycott the whole fucking thing and demand both the Republicans and Democrats renounce them as candidates. That's what the entire fucking country should do.
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • The JugglerThe Juggler Posts: 49,569
    Biden
    JW269453 said:
    I wouldn't blame anyone for choosing not to vote for someone who potentially assaults women, 1 or 20 it doesn't matter.
    Even if it leads to the total destruction of our democracy?

    Welp, that's on you guys then!


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  • FiveBelowFiveBelow Posts: 1,315
    I'm sitting this one out
    Even if it leads to the total destruction of our democracy?

    Welp, that's on you guys then!


    Only time will tell and nothing is decided yet. Live in the now, all of the what ifs you are fretting about may not happen.

  • tbergstbergs Posts: 10,218
    Biden
    Even if it leads to the total destruction of our democracy?

    Welp, that's on you guys then!


    That's just shitty. Why can't we as a country renounce them both if that's the case? My god we're a pathetic bunch if that's the option we leave for this country.
    It's a hopeless situation...
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