The coronavirus

what dreams said:

People are getting lost in the details. 

rgambs said:

josevolution said:

nicknyr15 said:

josevolution said:

nicknyr15 said:

josevolution said:

Positive news from this hospital it looks like 3 floors are converting back to regular patients meaning those floors were all Covid19 and the ER didn’t have any C19 patients, so this is all good news for the time being..

That’s huge. 

Yes it is , will see how the rest of this week goes but everyone here is very optimistic..

Man, I hope we are getting closer and closer. I know we don’t always see eye to eye but I’m grateful for  what you do and Appreciate the updates. 🤙🏼🤙🏼

It’s all positive man I’m done bickering here everyone is entitled to their opinion it’s good to debate but not cool to take it to a personal level, stay safe I’m hoping we get back to some form of normalcy..

I think you are still just feeling that 4/20 vibe lol

Some positive news: LabCorp granted emergency use authorization for at-home tests. Will initially be made available to healthcare workers and first responders and "in the coming weeks" to consumers.

@brianlux, I regret to inform you that it is a nasal swab.

https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20200421005452/en/LabCorp-COVID-19-At-Home-Test-Kit-Receives-FDA

CM189191 said:

mace1229 said:

CM189191 said:

mace1229 said:

CM189191 said:

mace1229 said:

CM189191 said:

mace1229 said:

brianlux said:

CM189191 said:

mace1229 said:

CM189191 said:

That second hump is exactly aligned with the flu season, so I’m not convinced the interventions had much to do with it or not.

And I believe most protesters just want common sense measure. Not just blindly and willy nilly deciding what people can and can’t do, which several governors seem to have taken as their approach. 

Counterpoint: I believe the protesters just want an excuse to shoot somebody. While governors are relying on actual experts scientists and professional opinion.

Yeah, I'll believe these people...

...over these any day:

So it was the doctors who said go line up to buy a lottery ticket, but it’s illegal to listen to a church service in your car? 

The problem is those doctors in that picture aren’t making the decions, and many of the decisions ate not based off any medical or professional advice.
Some states have restricted lake access to lakeside homes while others allow it as long as its a powerless boat. That to me makes no sense. Michigan has essentially banned all gardening sales and forced stores to block off gardening isles while much of the store still sells non essential items. 90% of Costco isn’t essential, why target gardening and not liquor and lottery sales?
And that’s the problem, doctors have made none of those decisions. It’s governors or other local officials and much of it makes no sense as to what you can and can’t do or buy. Some governors have gone way overboard.

Minnesota told people not to visit their summer cabins for a few reasons:

• travel spreads CV19
• people who own cabin homes are disproportionately older demographic
• rural areas are less likely to follow social distancing guidelines because apparently CV19 is 'an urban problem'
• rural hospitals have less resources and will be easily overwhelmed

The MN gov actually explained it pretty clearly, wrapping up with, 'more people will die'

Liquor & lottery is essential because can you imagine what will happen to community health if all the gambling addicts and alcoholics can't suddenly get booze or scratchers?  (hint: it's not good)

Gardening hasn't been targeted.  People can still shop online for pickup or delivery.  These are bored old folks who just want to spend hours wandering their local Home Depot (infecting other old folks).

Powerless boats were omitted because kayaks, canoes and sailboats hold less people.  Would you rather all boats were restricted?  

These things all make sense if you just take a moment to think logically.  Or if you listened to the explanations that have clearly been given over and over and over again. 

I’m not buying any of that (except maybe the wondering Home Depot, but then ban all non essential sales). But then be uniform with that decision, make Costco bam all non essential sales too, and not just Home Depot and gardening. It’s like trying to solve the gun problem by banning all Colts and doing nothing else. Makes no sense.

My parents have a second home and it’s just like you described. They are staying there most of the time because it is rural. When they need supplies the local grocery store is stocked, hasn’t run out of toilet paper, no line to get in, etc. their primary home is just outside Sacramento, much higher rate for cases, stores are crowded. Makes so much more sense for them to stay at their second home.  They drive to the primary home about once every 2 weeks, drive straight there, bring groceries with them and don’t leave once they get there. But they go to mow the lawn, check on things, etc. I see zero reason to not allow that.

Not all boats are massive power boats. Plenty of motor boats are small 2 or 4 person fishing boats. Plenty of sail boats can hold 10+ people. Instead of banning motor boats if that is the reason then wouldn’t it make more sense to limit boat capacity to 2 people? That’s what I mean by the regulations not making sense. If you’re worried about number of people then limit the number of people, not type of boat. 

So people with addictions to scratchers get a free pass during this time and everyone else is told to stay home? Not buying that one. 

I don’t have a problem with liquor stores being open and selling lottery tickets. I do have a problem with the government that allows that also stepping and stopping a church service that several members are listening to via the radio from their car in the parking lot, Parked many feet apart and windows rolled up. 

I have a problem with a father being arrested for playing catch in an empty park, but because you have an addiction to scratchers you can go ahead and line up in a liquor store. Well I have an addiction to quality time with my kids.

You're talking about anecdotal evidence, when the law of large numbers applies.

The CV19 virus doesn't care if you 'aren't buying it'.

Or more accurately, don't understand:
It's risk mitigation. Not risk elimination.

So I see instead of trying to explain why if you’re worried about sheer numbers of people on a boat it doesn’t make sense to limit boat capacity and instead just ban certain types of boats that may or may not have a large capacity while allowing other boats that also may or may not have a large capacity and instead just say I don’t understand.

Or don’t bother to explain why it is bad to allow people to practice their religion from their car during the 2 most important weeks in Christianity and instead say but people will be pissed if you don’t let them line up to buy their weekly lottery and see how they act. Yeah? Are they going to be more pissed than the people already protesting?

I just don’t understand how viruses work.
Gotchya..

My dumb ass just thinks it’s more effective to say no more than 2 people on a boat rather than banning some boats and not others and cross my fingers only small groups happen to be allowed.

But anecdotal and I don’t understand. 

The Department of Natural Resources has gotten many reports about the heavy use of boat launches across the state, and the congregation of people at the launches.

"In addition, people who use motorized watercraft typically have to procure secondary services for their craft, such as parts and gasoline, that could unnecessarily increase contact with others and spread disease," the DNR said. "The hope is that the prohibition on the use of motorized watercraft will reduce the movement of people within the state and potential contact among people, with the intent of slowing the spread of the coronavirus."

Get it yet?

I think we’ll just have to disagree. I still think there’s a much more effective way. Powerless boats can still use boat launches.

Close boat launches, limit boat capacity, make boat repair shops non essential and that is going to be more effective. People with private lake access or a dock can still enjoy the outdoors which is good for everyone.

My point that got lost in this debate is some governors have pushed their restrictions too far. And boats are just one of dozens of examples if you don’t agree with me about the boat. I don’t think protesting is the right thing to do right now but I can understand why people are upset.

Maybe pictures will help:

PJNB said:

mace1229 said:

CM189191 said:

mace1229 said:

CM189191 said:

mace1229 said:

CM189191 said:

mace1229 said:

CM189191 said:

mace1229 said:

brianlux said:

CM189191 said:

mace1229 said:

CM189191 said:

That second hump is exactly aligned with the flu season, so I’m not convinced the interventions had much to do with it or not.

And I believe most protesters just want common sense measure. Not just blindly and willy nilly deciding what people can and can’t do, which several governors seem to have taken as their approach. 

Counterpoint: I believe the protesters just want an excuse to shoot somebody. While governors are relying on actual experts scientists and professional opinion.

Yeah, I'll believe these people...

...over these any day:

So it was the doctors who said go line up to buy a lottery ticket, but it’s illegal to listen to a church service in your car? 

The problem is those doctors in that picture aren’t making the decions, and many of the decisions ate not based off any medical or professional advice.
Some states have restricted lake access to lakeside homes while others allow it as long as its a powerless boat. That to me makes no sense. Michigan has essentially banned all gardening sales and forced stores to block off gardening isles while much of the store still sells non essential items. 90% of Costco isn’t essential, why target gardening and not liquor and lottery sales?
And that’s the problem, doctors have made none of those decisions. It’s governors or other local officials and much of it makes no sense as to what you can and can’t do or buy. Some governors have gone way overboard.

Minnesota told people not to visit their summer cabins for a few reasons:

• travel spreads CV19
• people who own cabin homes are disproportionately older demographic
• rural areas are less likely to follow social distancing guidelines because apparently CV19 is 'an urban problem'
• rural hospitals have less resources and will be easily overwhelmed

The MN gov actually explained it pretty clearly, wrapping up with, 'more people will die'

Liquor & lottery is essential because can you imagine what will happen to community health if all the gambling addicts and alcoholics can't suddenly get booze or scratchers?  (hint: it's not good)

Gardening hasn't been targeted.  People can still shop online for pickup or delivery.  These are bored old folks who just want to spend hours wandering their local Home Depot (infecting other old folks).

Powerless boats were omitted because kayaks, canoes and sailboats hold less people.  Would you rather all boats were restricted?  

These things all make sense if you just take a moment to think logically.  Or if you listened to the explanations that have clearly been given over and over and over again. 

I’m not buying any of that (except maybe the wondering Home Depot, but then ban all non essential sales). But then be uniform with that decision, make Costco bam all non essential sales too, and not just Home Depot and gardening. It’s like trying to solve the gun problem by banning all Colts and doing nothing else. Makes no sense.

My parents have a second home and it’s just like you described. They are staying there most of the time because it is rural. When they need supplies the local grocery store is stocked, hasn’t run out of toilet paper, no line to get in, etc. their primary home is just outside Sacramento, much higher rate for cases, stores are crowded. Makes so much more sense for them to stay at their second home.  They drive to the primary home about once every 2 weeks, drive straight there, bring groceries with them and don’t leave once they get there. But they go to mow the lawn, check on things, etc. I see zero reason to not allow that.

Not all boats are massive power boats. Plenty of motor boats are small 2 or 4 person fishing boats. Plenty of sail boats can hold 10+ people. Instead of banning motor boats if that is the reason then wouldn’t it make more sense to limit boat capacity to 2 people? That’s what I mean by the regulations not making sense. If you’re worried about number of people then limit the number of people, not type of boat. 

So people with addictions to scratchers get a free pass during this time and everyone else is told to stay home? Not buying that one. 

I don’t have a problem with liquor stores being open and selling lottery tickets. I do have a problem with the government that allows that also stepping and stopping a church service that several members are listening to via the radio from their car in the parking lot, Parked many feet apart and windows rolled up. 

I have a problem with a father being arrested for playing catch in an empty park, but because you have an addiction to scratchers you can go ahead and line up in a liquor store. Well I have an addiction to quality time with my kids.

You're talking about anecdotal evidence, when the law of large numbers applies.

The CV19 virus doesn't care if you 'aren't buying it'.

Or more accurately, don't understand:
It's risk mitigation. Not risk elimination.

So I see instead of trying to explain why if you’re worried about sheer numbers of people on a boat it doesn’t make sense to limit boat capacity and instead just ban certain types of boats that may or may not have a large capacity while allowing other boats that also may or may not have a large capacity and instead just say I don’t understand.

Or don’t bother to explain why it is bad to allow people to practice their religion from their car during the 2 most important weeks in Christianity and instead say but people will be pissed if you don’t let them line up to buy their weekly lottery and see how they act. Yeah? Are they going to be more pissed than the people already protesting?

I just don’t understand how viruses work.
Gotchya..

My dumb ass just thinks it’s more effective to say no more than 2 people on a boat rather than banning some boats and not others and cross my fingers only small groups happen to be allowed.

But anecdotal and I don’t understand. 

The Department of Natural Resources has gotten many reports about the heavy use of boat launches across the state, and the congregation of people at the launches.

"In addition, people who use motorized watercraft typically have to procure secondary services for their craft, such as parts and gasoline, that could unnecessarily increase contact with others and spread disease," the DNR said. "The hope is that the prohibition on the use of motorized watercraft will reduce the movement of people within the state and potential contact among people, with the intent of slowing the spread of the coronavirus."

Get it yet?

I think we’ll just have to disagree. I still think there’s a much more effective way. Powerless boats can still use boat launches.

Close boat launches, limit boat capacity, make boat repair shops non essential and that is going to be more effective. People with private lake access or a dock can still enjoy the outdoors which is good for everyone.

My point that got lost in this debate is some governors have pushed their restrictions too far. And boats are just one of dozens of examples if you don’t agree with me about the boat. I don’t think protesting is the right thing to do right now but I can understand why people are upset.

Maybe pictures will help:

I, nor anyone else on here that I saw, ever suggested business as usual. So no, this picture does not help.
There is a lot of area between arresting a dad for playing catch and business as usual.

I thought the majority of protests wanted everything opened back up again.  Thats what the signs are saying that I am reading at least. 

PJNB said:

mace1229 said:

CM189191 said:

mace1229 said:

CM189191 said:

mace1229 said:

CM189191 said:

mace1229 said:

CM189191 said:

mace1229 said:

brianlux said:

CM189191 said:

mace1229 said:

CM189191 said:

That second hump is exactly aligned with the flu season, so I’m not convinced the interventions had much to do with it or not.

And I believe most protesters just want common sense measure. Not just blindly and willy nilly deciding what people can and can’t do, which several governors seem to have taken as their approach. 

Counterpoint: I believe the protesters just want an excuse to shoot somebody. While governors are relying on actual experts scientists and professional opinion.

Yeah, I'll believe these people...

...over these any day:

So it was the doctors who said go line up to buy a lottery ticket, but it’s illegal to listen to a church service in your car? 

The problem is those doctors in that picture aren’t making the decions, and many of the decisions ate not based off any medical or professional advice.
Some states have restricted lake access to lakeside homes while others allow it as long as its a powerless boat. That to me makes no sense. Michigan has essentially banned all gardening sales and forced stores to block off gardening isles while much of the store still sells non essential items. 90% of Costco isn’t essential, why target gardening and not liquor and lottery sales?
And that’s the problem, doctors have made none of those decisions. It’s governors or other local officials and much of it makes no sense as to what you can and can’t do or buy. Some governors have gone way overboard.

Minnesota told people not to visit their summer cabins for a few reasons:

• travel spreads CV19
• people who own cabin homes are disproportionately older demographic
• rural areas are less likely to follow social distancing guidelines because apparently CV19 is 'an urban problem'
• rural hospitals have less resources and will be easily overwhelmed

The MN gov actually explained it pretty clearly, wrapping up with, 'more people will die'

Liquor & lottery is essential because can you imagine what will happen to community health if all the gambling addicts and alcoholics can't suddenly get booze or scratchers?  (hint: it's not good)

Gardening hasn't been targeted.  People can still shop online for pickup or delivery.  These are bored old folks who just want to spend hours wandering their local Home Depot (infecting other old folks).

Powerless boats were omitted because kayaks, canoes and sailboats hold less people.  Would you rather all boats were restricted?  

These things all make sense if you just take a moment to think logically.  Or if you listened to the explanations that have clearly been given over and over and over again. 

I’m not buying any of that (except maybe the wondering Home Depot, but then ban all non essential sales). But then be uniform with that decision, make Costco bam all non essential sales too, and not just Home Depot and gardening. It’s like trying to solve the gun problem by banning all Colts and doing nothing else. Makes no sense.

My parents have a second home and it’s just like you described. They are staying there most of the time because it is rural. When they need supplies the local grocery store is stocked, hasn’t run out of toilet paper, no line to get in, etc. their primary home is just outside Sacramento, much higher rate for cases, stores are crowded. Makes so much more sense for them to stay at their second home.  They drive to the primary home about once every 2 weeks, drive straight there, bring groceries with them and don’t leave once they get there. But they go to mow the lawn, check on things, etc. I see zero reason to not allow that.

Not all boats are massive power boats. Plenty of motor boats are small 2 or 4 person fishing boats. Plenty of sail boats can hold 10+ people. Instead of banning motor boats if that is the reason then wouldn’t it make more sense to limit boat capacity to 2 people? That’s what I mean by the regulations not making sense. If you’re worried about number of people then limit the number of people, not type of boat. 

So people with addictions to scratchers get a free pass during this time and everyone else is told to stay home? Not buying that one. 

I don’t have a problem with liquor stores being open and selling lottery tickets. I do have a problem with the government that allows that also stepping and stopping a church service that several members are listening to via the radio from their car in the parking lot, Parked many feet apart and windows rolled up. 

I have a problem with a father being arrested for playing catch in an empty park, but because you have an addiction to scratchers you can go ahead and line up in a liquor store. Well I have an addiction to quality time with my kids.

You're talking about anecdotal evidence, when the law of large numbers applies.

The CV19 virus doesn't care if you 'aren't buying it'.

Or more accurately, don't understand:
It's risk mitigation. Not risk elimination.

So I see instead of trying to explain why if you’re worried about sheer numbers of people on a boat it doesn’t make sense to limit boat capacity and instead just ban certain types of boats that may or may not have a large capacity while allowing other boats that also may or may not have a large capacity and instead just say I don’t understand.

Or don’t bother to explain why it is bad to allow people to practice their religion from their car during the 2 most important weeks in Christianity and instead say but people will be pissed if you don’t let them line up to buy their weekly lottery and see how they act. Yeah? Are they going to be more pissed than the people already protesting?

I just don’t understand how viruses work.
Gotchya..

My dumb ass just thinks it’s more effective to say no more than 2 people on a boat rather than banning some boats and not others and cross my fingers only small groups happen to be allowed.

But anecdotal and I don’t understand. 

The Department of Natural Resources has gotten many reports about the heavy use of boat launches across the state, and the congregation of people at the launches.

"In addition, people who use motorized watercraft typically have to procure secondary services for their craft, such as parts and gasoline, that could unnecessarily increase contact with others and spread disease," the DNR said. "The hope is that the prohibition on the use of motorized watercraft will reduce the movement of people within the state and potential contact among people, with the intent of slowing the spread of the coronavirus."

Get it yet?

I think we’ll just have to disagree. I still think there’s a much more effective way. Powerless boats can still use boat launches.

Close boat launches, limit boat capacity, make boat repair shops non essential and that is going to be more effective. People with private lake access or a dock can still enjoy the outdoors which is good for everyone.

My point that got lost in this debate is some governors have pushed their restrictions too far. And boats are just one of dozens of examples if you don’t agree with me about the boat. I don’t think protesting is the right thing to do right now but I can understand why people are upset.

Maybe pictures will help:

I, nor anyone else on here that I saw, ever suggested business as usual. So no, this picture does not help.
There is a lot of area between arresting a dad for playing catch and business as usual.

I thought the majority of protests wanted everything opened back up again.  Thats what the signs are saying that I am reading at least. 

pjl44 said:

oftenreading said:

pjl44 said:

Some positive news: LabCorp granted emergency use authorization for at-home tests. Will initially be made available to healthcare workers and first responders and "in the coming weeks" to consumers.

@brianlux, I regret to inform you that it is a nasal swab.

https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20200421005452/en/LabCorp-COVID-19-At-Home-Test-Kit-Receives-FDA

 Interesting. I would like to see their validity data. It's not easy to do a nasopharyngeal swab on yourself. Done correctly, it's a painful procedure, and done incorrectly you won't get a useful sample. I would be concerned about a high rate of false negatives with this. 

I wondered about that, too. But LabCorp is legit so I imagine/think/hope they know what they're doing.