The coronavirus

CM189191

i_lov_it

How about we get back our freedoms...

pjl44

Looks like Georgia is reopening gyms, hair salons, restaurants and some other businesses. Interested to see how this goes, especially how many people are willing to patronize right out of the gate.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/20/politics/georgia-brian-kemp-reopen-businesses-coronavirus/index.html

mace1229

CM189191 said:

That second hump is exactly aligned with the flu season, so I’m not convinced the interventions had much to do with it or not.

And I believe most protesters just want common sense measure. Not just blindly and willy nilly deciding what people can and can’t do, which several governors seem to have taken as their approach. 

CM189191

mace1229 said:

CM189191 said:

That second hump is exactly aligned with the flu season, so I’m not convinced the interventions had much to do with it or not.

And I believe most protesters just want common sense measure. Not just blindly and willy nilly deciding what people can and can’t do, which several governors seem to have taken as their approach. 

Counterpoint: I believe the protesters just want an excuse to shoot somebody. While governors are relying on actual experts scientists and professional opinion.

brianlux

CM189191 said:

mace1229 said:

CM189191 said:

That second hump is exactly aligned with the flu season, so I’m not convinced the interventions had much to do with it or not.

And I believe most protesters just want common sense measure. Not just blindly and willy nilly deciding what people can and can’t do, which several governors seem to have taken as their approach. 

Counterpoint: I believe the protesters just want an excuse to shoot somebody. While governors are relying on actual experts scientists and professional opinion.

Yeah, I'll believe these people...

...over these any day:

bbiggs

pjl44 said:

Looks like Georgia is reopening gyms, hair salons, restaurants and some other businesses. Interested to see how this goes, especially how many people are willing to patronize right out of the gate.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/20/politics/georgia-brian-kemp-reopen-businesses-coronavirus/index.html

My wife is a hairdresser.  IL is still shut down, but when they lift restrictions, her business will likely be one of the first to open back up.  It's her own business, so it is literally just her and one of her clients at a time, a few days a week.  Her space is a separate "suite" with 4 walls and a door to keep her isolated for the most part.  I have to admit, it makes me pretty uneasy thinking about the close contact, even with the limited number of people she'll see on a given day.  I'd rather have her stay home longer, but she won't do it at the risk of her clients going elsewhere.  Some of them have already asked if they can come to the house or if she would go to theirs to do a haircut, color, etc.  That answer has been a hard "no."

rgambs

mace1229 said:

CM189191 said:

That second hump is exactly aligned with the flu season, so I’m not convinced the interventions had much to do with it or not.

And I believe most protesters just want common sense measure. Not just blindly and willy nilly deciding what people can and can’t do, which several governors seem to have taken as their approach. 

look closer at the graph, it's adjusted for normal flu deaths

brianlux

bbiggs said:

pjl44 said:

Looks like Georgia is reopening gyms, hair salons, restaurants and some other businesses. Interested to see how this goes, especially how many people are willing to patronize right out of the gate.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/20/politics/georgia-brian-kemp-reopen-businesses-coronavirus/index.html

My wife is a hairdresser.  IL is still shut down, but when they lift restrictions, her business will likely be one of the first to open back up.  It's her own business, so it is literally just her and one of her clients at a time, a few days a week.  Her space is a separate "suite" with 4 walls and a door to keep her isolated for the most part.  I have to admit, it makes me pretty uneasy thinking about the close contact, even with the limited number of people she'll see on a given day.  I'd rather have her stay home longer, but she won't do it at the risk of her clients going elsewhere.  Some of them have already asked if they can come to the house or if she would go to theirs to do a haircut, color, etc.  That answer has been a hard "no."

I hate to see you have struggles with your wife, b, but I think you did the right thing saying "no" to in-home hair appointments.  I would have done the same.  Hopefully she will understand that you are being sensible in protecting yours and her health. 

It's hard having a small business shut down this long- we get it!  But as much as it hurts that we are taking a financial hit week after week, it's better than risking our health.

mace1229

brianlux said:

CM189191 said:

mace1229 said:

CM189191 said:

That second hump is exactly aligned with the flu season, so I’m not convinced the interventions had much to do with it or not.

And I believe most protesters just want common sense measure. Not just blindly and willy nilly deciding what people can and can’t do, which several governors seem to have taken as their approach. 

Counterpoint: I believe the protesters just want an excuse to shoot somebody. While governors are relying on actual experts scientists and professional opinion.

Yeah, I'll believe these people...

...over these any day:

So it was the doctors who said go line up to buy a lottery ticket, but it’s illegal to listen to a church service in your car? 

The problem is those doctors in that picture aren’t making the decions, and many of the decisions ate not based off any medical or professional advice.
Some states have restricted lake access to lakeside homes while others allow it as long as its a powerless boat. That to me makes no sense. Michigan has essentially banned all gardening sales and forced stores to block off gardening isles while much of the store still sells non essential items. 90% of Costco isn’t essential, why target gardening and not liquor and lottery sales?
And that’s the problem, doctors have made none of those decisions. It’s governors or other local officials and much of it makes no sense as to what you can and can’t do or buy. Some governors have gone way overboard.

mace1229

CM189191 said:

mace1229 said:

CM189191 said:

That second hump is exactly aligned with the flu season, so I’m not convinced the interventions had much to do with it or not.

And I believe most protesters just want common sense measure. Not just blindly and willy nilly deciding what people can and can’t do, which several governors seem to have taken as their approach. 

Counterpoint: I believe the protesters just want an excuse to shoot somebody. While governors are relying on actual experts scientists and professional opinion.

Who’s shooting anyone? (In these protests, I’m aware of the shooting nag in Canada). Nearly all, with just a few exceptions, of current protests I see no guns. It’s people wanting their freedoms back.
If I got a $500 ticket for listening to a church service in my car while people line up to buy alcohol I’d probably protest too. If I had a small business that I could adapt to follow social distancing but was forced to close while I see people buy lottery tickets next door, I’d probably protest. If I had a second home out of the city and was told I was not allowed to travel there I’d probably protest. If I couldn’t  take my 2 person boat on the lake because it has a 1 hp motor but my neighbor could take their 30 ft sailboat out, I’d probably protest. If I had a scheduled joint/back/hip surgery to relieve pain so I could live a normal life that was canceled and I see hospitals cutting staff hours due to lack of business I’d probably protest.
I could keep going, but I’ll stop here.

FiveBelow

CM189191 said:

mace1229 said:

CM189191 said:

That second hump is exactly aligned with the flu season, so I’m not convinced the interventions had much to do with it or not.

And I believe most protesters just want common sense measure. Not just blindly and willy nilly deciding what people can and can’t do, which several governors seem to have taken as their approach. 

Counterpoint: I believe the protesters just want an excuse to shoot somebody. While governors are relying on actual experts scientists and professional opinion.

I said a clip, clop, the clippy, the clippy to the clop clop clop and you don't stop. Nice horseshoes!

josevolution

pjl44 said:

Looks like Georgia is reopening gyms, hair salons, restaurants and some other businesses. Interested to see how this goes, especially how many people are willing to patronize right out of the gate.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/20/politics/georgia-brian-kemp-reopen-businesses-coronavirus/index.html

Good luck with this.

pjl44

bbiggs said:

pjl44 said:

Looks like Georgia is reopening gyms, hair salons, restaurants and some other businesses. Interested to see how this goes, especially how many people are willing to patronize right out of the gate.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/20/politics/georgia-brian-kemp-reopen-businesses-coronavirus/index.html

My wife is a hairdresser.  IL is still shut down, but when they lift restrictions, her business will likely be one of the first to open back up.  It's her own business, so it is literally just her and one of her clients at a time, a few days a week.  Her space is a separate "suite" with 4 walls and a door to keep her isolated for the most part.  I have to admit, it makes me pretty uneasy thinking about the close contact, even with the limited number of people she'll see on a given day.  I'd rather have her stay home longer, but she won't do it at the risk of her clients going elsewhere.  Some of them have already asked if they can come to the house or if she would go to theirs to do a haircut, color, etc.  That answer has been a hard "no."

I wondered how much of that might be happening. Same thing with our daycare. You have working families who all of a sudden have kids home and daycare employees who aren't working. How many people are working out side deals?

Being in IL at least you'll have the benefit of seeing how GA goes. I'm sure some will get worked up over this, but unless you live in GA it should be of interest to observe and learn.

CM189191

mace1229 said:

brianlux said:

CM189191 said:

mace1229 said:

CM189191 said:

That second hump is exactly aligned with the flu season, so I’m not convinced the interventions had much to do with it or not.

And I believe most protesters just want common sense measure. Not just blindly and willy nilly deciding what people can and can’t do, which several governors seem to have taken as their approach. 

Counterpoint: I believe the protesters just want an excuse to shoot somebody. While governors are relying on actual experts scientists and professional opinion.

Yeah, I'll believe these people...

...over these any day:

So it was the doctors who said go line up to buy a lottery ticket, but it’s illegal to listen to a church service in your car? 

The problem is those doctors in that picture aren’t making the decions, and many of the decisions ate not based off any medical or professional advice.
Some states have restricted lake access to lakeside homes while others allow it as long as its a powerless boat. That to me makes no sense. Michigan has essentially banned all gardening sales and forced stores to block off gardening isles while much of the store still sells non essential items. 90% of Costco isn’t essential, why target gardening and not liquor and lottery sales?
And that’s the problem, doctors have made none of those decisions. It’s governors or other local officials and much of it makes no sense as to what you can and can’t do or buy. Some governors have gone way overboard.

Minnesota told people not to visit their summer cabins for a few reasons:

• travel spreads CV19
• people who own cabin homes are disproportionately older demographic
• rural areas are less likely to follow social distancing guidelines because apparently CV19 is 'an urban problem'
• rural hospitals have less resources and will be easily overwhelmed

The MN gov actually explained it pretty clearly, wrapping up with, 'more people will die'

Liquor & lottery is essential because can you imagine what will happen to community health if all the gambling addicts and alcoholics can't suddenly get booze or scratchers?  (hint: it's not good)

Gardening hasn't been targeted.  People can still shop online for pickup or delivery.  These are bored old folks who just want to spend hours wandering their local Home Depot (infecting other old folks).

Powerless boats were omitted because kayaks, canoes and sailboats hold less people.  Would you rather all boats were restricted?  

These things all make sense if you just take a moment to think logically.  Or if you listened to the explanations that have clearly been given over and over and over again. 

brianlux

mace1229 said:

brianlux said:

CM189191 said:

mace1229 said:

CM189191 said:

That second hump is exactly aligned with the flu season, so I’m not convinced the interventions had much to do with it or not.

And I believe most protesters just want common sense measure. Not just blindly and willy nilly deciding what people can and can’t do, which several governors seem to have taken as their approach. 

Counterpoint: I believe the protesters just want an excuse to shoot somebody. While governors are relying on actual experts scientists and professional opinion.

Yeah, I'll believe these people...

...over these any day:

So it was the doctors who said go line up to buy a lottery ticket, but it’s illegal to listen to a church service in your car? 

The problem is those doctors in that picture aren’t making the decions, and many of the decisions ate not based off any medical or professional advice.
Some states have restricted lake access to lakeside homes while others allow it as long as its a powerless boat. That to me makes no sense. Michigan has essentially banned all gardening sales and forced stores to block off gardening isles while much of the store still sells non essential items. 90% of Costco isn’t essential, why target gardening and not liquor and lottery sales?
And that’s the problem, doctors have made none of those decisions. It’s governors or other local officials and much of it makes no sense as to what you can and can’t do or buy. Some governors have gone way overboard.

Getting arrested for listening to a church service while sitting in your car.  Yeah, that must have happened a lot huh?

Sorry, but I'm still more interested in what the medical community has to say than a bunch of yahoos with guns and snake flags.

what dreams

mace1229 said:

CM189191 said:

mace1229 said:

CM189191 said:

That second hump is exactly aligned with the flu season, so I’m not convinced the interventions had much to do with it or not.

And I believe most protesters just want common sense measure. Not just blindly and willy nilly deciding what people can and can’t do, which several governors seem to have taken as their approach. 

Counterpoint: I believe the protesters just want an excuse to shoot somebody. While governors are relying on actual experts scientists and professional opinion.

Who’s shooting anyone? (In these protests, I’m aware of the shooting nag in Canada). Nearly all, with just a few exceptions, of current protests I see no guns. It’s people wanting their freedoms back.
If I got a $500 ticket for listening to a church service in my car while people line up to buy alcohol I’d probably protest too. If I had a small business that I could adapt to follow social distancing but was forced to close while I see people buy lottery tickets next door, I’d probably protest. If I had a second home out of the city and was told I was not allowed to travel there I’d probably protest. If I couldn’t  take my 2 person boat on the lake because it has a 1 hp motor but my neighbor could take their 30 ft sailboat out, I’d probably protest. If I had a scheduled joint/back/hip surgery to relieve pain so I could live a normal life that was canceled and I see hospitals cutting staff hours due to lack of business I’d probably protest.
I could keep going, but I’ll stop here.

Could you just stop and think, "This too shall pass"? Seriously. We are NOT LOSING FREEDOMS. I'm sick if this argument. We have been asked for a little bit to make some inconsequential changes to our lives in order to avoid quite consequential ones.

Sure, some of the rules seem idiotic and arbitrary, but how is that any different now than when we are in normal times? Your "protest" makes you sound like a crybaby. Just stop. You're collecting a paycheck still, am I right? Be grateful, donate your govt bonus to a small business owner of your choice, and hang on for another month. It's not the end of the world, for christ's sake.

tbergs

mace1229 said:

CM189191 said:

That second hump is exactly aligned with the flu season, so I’m not convinced the interventions had much to do with it or not.

And I believe most protesters just want common sense measure. Not just blindly and willy nilly deciding what people can and can’t do, which several governors seem to have taken as their approach. 

Which governor's do you think are taking a willy nilly approach? I think all of them that officially put forth some sort of order did so with lots of input and in the best interest of the public while also, wait for it, trying to appease what some have referred to as rednecks, or in milder terms, the naysayers. I would guarantee that no governor wanted to keep liquor stores, lotto sales and weed dispensaries open, but they couldn't use the reasoned approach they did with large events, restaurants and personal contact professions. Do you think these people protesting would have done so sooner or later if more restrictions were put in place and they couldn't access those services, that I'll refer to as recreational pleasures? Take away people's right to buy booze in this country, even if just for a month, and there'd be chaos.

The only willy nilly response I've seen has been from the great divider who shits in the Oval office. I'm not sure what you expect these governor's to do or what you think is reasonable, but I guarantee lots of people would disagree with you. I am proud of my governor for the steps he's taken to protect the public. He provides data, plans and professional input to make his decisions and then presents it with a calm and caring approach so people can understand why he is recommending these actions.

If the piece of shit POTUS showed one bit of care for any human life, this country could have united behind a response and pledge to; a) help mitigate the spread and death totals; b) provide assistance to those who most need it and; c) develop a plan for businesses and people in general to slowly recover and re-establish a new norm that would safely allow them work and live without constant fear.

mace1229

CM189191 said:

mace1229 said:

brianlux said:

CM189191 said:

mace1229 said:

CM189191 said:

That second hump is exactly aligned with the flu season, so I’m not convinced the interventions had much to do with it or not.

And I believe most protesters just want common sense measure. Not just blindly and willy nilly deciding what people can and can’t do, which several governors seem to have taken as their approach. 

Counterpoint: I believe the protesters just want an excuse to shoot somebody. While governors are relying on actual experts scientists and professional opinion.

Yeah, I'll believe these people...

...over these any day:

So it was the doctors who said go line up to buy a lottery ticket, but it’s illegal to listen to a church service in your car? 

The problem is those doctors in that picture aren’t making the decions, and many of the decisions ate not based off any medical or professional advice.
Some states have restricted lake access to lakeside homes while others allow it as long as its a powerless boat. That to me makes no sense. Michigan has essentially banned all gardening sales and forced stores to block off gardening isles while much of the store still sells non essential items. 90% of Costco isn’t essential, why target gardening and not liquor and lottery sales?
And that’s the problem, doctors have made none of those decisions. It’s governors or other local officials and much of it makes no sense as to what you can and can’t do or buy. Some governors have gone way overboard.

Minnesota told people not to visit their summer cabins for a few reasons:

• travel spreads CV19
• people who own cabin homes are disproportionately older demographic
• rural areas are less likely to follow social distancing guidelines because apparently CV19 is 'an urban problem'
• rural hospitals have less resources and will be easily overwhelmed

The MN gov actually explained it pretty clearly, wrapping up with, 'more people will die'

Liquor & lottery is essential because can you imagine what will happen to community health if all the gambling addicts and alcoholics can't suddenly get booze or scratchers?  (hint: it's not good)

Gardening hasn't been targeted.  People can still shop online for pickup or delivery.  These are bored old folks who just want to spend hours wandering their local Home Depot (infecting other old folks).

Powerless boats were omitted because kayaks, canoes and sailboats hold less people.  Would you rather all boats were restricted?  

These things all make sense if you just take a moment to think logically.  Or if you listened to the explanations that have clearly been given over and over and over again. 

I’m not buying any of that (except maybe the wondering Home Depot, but then ban all non essential sales). But then be uniform with that decision, make Costco bam all non essential sales too, and not just Home Depot and gardening. It’s like trying to solve the gun problem by banning all Colts and doing nothing else. Makes no sense.

My parents have a second home and it’s just like you described. They are staying there most of the time because it is rural. When they need supplies the local grocery store is stocked, hasn’t run out of toilet paper, no line to get in, etc. their primary home is just outside Sacramento, much higher rate for cases, stores are crowded. Makes so much more sense for them to stay at their second home.  They drive to the primary home about once every 2 weeks, drive straight there, bring groceries with them and don’t leave once they get there. But they go to mow the lawn, check on things, etc. I see zero reason to not allow that.

Not all boats are massive power boats. Plenty of motor boats are small 2 or 4 person fishing boats. Plenty of sail boats can hold 10+ people. Instead of banning motor boats if that is the reason then wouldn’t it make more sense to limit boat capacity to 2 people? That’s what I mean by the regulations not making sense. If you’re worried about number of people then limit the number of people, not type of boat. 

So people with addictions to scratchers get a free pass during this time and everyone else is told to stay home? Not buying that one. 

I don’t have a problem with liquor stores being open and selling lottery tickets. I do have a problem with the government that allows that also stepping and stopping a church service that several members are listening to via the radio from their car in the parking lot, Parked many feet apart and windows rolled up. 

I have a problem with a father being arrested for playing catch in an empty park, but because you have an addiction to scratchers you can go ahead and line up in a liquor store. Well I have an addiction to quality time with my kids.

what dreams

I can't remember if this article was shared here when it was first published. This debate reminds me. Headline is in the URL. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/americans-are-being-asked-to-sacrifice-have-we-forgotten-how/2020/04/16/e81ab08c-7ff9-11ea-8013-1b6da0e4a2b7_story.html