Biden vs Trump 2020 - vote now and discuss!

pjl44 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

pjl44 said:

The Juggler said:

pjl44 said:

mrussel1 said:

pjl44 said:

mrussel1 said:

pjl44 said:

mrussel1 said:

pjl44 said:

mrussel1 said:

pjl44 said:

mrussel1 said:

pjl44 said:

mrussel1 said:

pjl44 said:

I was thinking about that blog more. She says right in there that she almost left to work on a Governor's race in California. So she was already planning on leaving before Tate talked her into joining him in the midwest. There's no contradiction there - she had other reasons for leaving. Was it about a sexual assault? Who knows. 

Why the fuck are you people listening to Louise Mensch?

Why are you on about Louise Mensch?  You're making this about her.  She happened to post these articles which plays into the exact thing I was talking about last week, that this woman has had multiple contacts with the media and never brought up the assault...until like two weeks ago.  

She's a bullshit artist and whatever gotcha she thinks she's presenting is bullshit 

You've completely missed the point I was making because you're do hung up on her. 

What was your point?

That until two weeks ago, she never accused Biden of this, even when she was on record talking about abuse several times.  And in 2019, talking specifically about Biden and that he touched her neck inappropriately.  But suddenly in the last two weeks, we’ve escalated to assault.  

Ok...I didn't miss your point. You're just talking about aspects of this that I'm not interested in discussing. All of these things can be true:

- Her accusation isn't accurate
- Mensch is a bullshit artist and her points posted here don't amount to anything
- The media has a double standard in coverage of these stories

I don't care about 2 and 3 is obvious.  I guess I don't expect the press to be fair.  Throughout American history,  the media always pushed narratives.  It's not new. The concept of fair media was a mid 20th century ideal from the advent of television and it ended with... at best.. the end of Cronkite.

That's totally fair and I should have added that we seemed to be in agreement there anyway. Since the other 2 cancel each other out, I'll move on to a more positive subject:

I don't mind Amash.. I have disagreements with Libertarians though, for a few reasons, but at least they are principled.  I don't like when they move too deep into objectivism.  They lose me quickly there.  I think he should run.  Helps Biden.

Yeah, the guy who is sorta their frontrunner right now, Hornberger, is one of those objectivist types. For several reasons I couldn't vote for him.

The Libertarian candidate does historically pull more Republican voters. 2016 was interesting - Johnson seemed to pull about equally from both. Looking back you have to wonder if that had more to do with Clinton than anything. I agree that for Biden it's at worst a wash, but likely a net bump.

Yeah I think we see from the primary voting that there was definitely an anti- Hillary vote. 

I don't see anyone really talking about it, but I think that's going to hit Trump, too. The one poll I've seen since Sanders bowed out had Biden with an 11 point lead. I really think that's about where things are right now. A lot will happen in 7 months, but still.

I don't think 538 started their head to head polling average in '16 until sometime in the summer. 

Definitely good numbers so far, but a long time left to go. 

I looked back and the 2016 Dem primary was still a two-person race into June. But yeah a long time left and things are extremely volatile. I can't imagine Trump's daily slap fights with the press are helping.

I think he’s killing himself with these “briefings.” Joe should just sit back for a month or two and let Trump keep digging himself a hole. 

Definitely. And I agree with the people saying it's smart for Biden to keep a low profile right now. He's not in a position to do anything about the pandemic, so it would be easy to accuse him of undermining government efforts. Even if he's totally right, save it for an appropriate forum like the debates.

mrussel1 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

CM189191 said:

https://twitter.com/cnnbrk/status/1250065535200616448?s=19

What an endorsement for Joe! So between Biden and Trump, Obama sides with Biden. Talk about playing it safe. I guess Obama didn’t want to endorse when it was possible that Joe wouldn’t win the primary. It looks like Obama is like me and and many others that’ll vote for Joe in November: “Well, if he’s all we got, I guess I’ll back him.”

No, not really. Sitting and past presidents traditionally do not insert themselves into the nominating process as they prefer, and the party prefers, that the process play out. Obama not endorsing Sleepy Woke Joe until now is nothing more than him allowing the process to play out and then backing whoever the eventual nominee is. Obama would have endorsed Bernie had Bernie been the nominee. And he would have encouraged ALL democrats to get behind Bernie and help him win. Hardly an "if he's all we got," moment.

So basically he would’ve endorsed whoever won the primary. So for all we know, he could think Biden’s not a good choice (didn’t Obama say that in 2015 and that’s what led to Joe not running? I can’t remember but I thought he had something to do with Hillary being the party’s choice). I dunno, I just don’t think endorsements mean much. Especially something like this. Is he really endorsing Joe Biden? Or is he endorsing “insert democratic nominee here”?

Obama didn't endorse Clinton until June of 16, when the race was over.  Same thing here.  And yes, that's the point.  Obama does not want to be seen as tipping the scales in a contested primary, so he remained silent.  He was clear that was his plan in 16 and 20.  And yes, one would think he would endorse any D put forward against Trump.  That seems to be a fairly reasonable conclusion. 

mrussel1 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

CM189191 said:

https://twitter.com/cnnbrk/status/1250065535200616448?s=19

What an endorsement for Joe! So between Biden and Trump, Obama sides with Biden. Talk about playing it safe. I guess Obama didn’t want to endorse when it was possible that Joe wouldn’t win the primary. It looks like Obama is like me and and many others that’ll vote for Joe in November: “Well, if he’s all we got, I guess I’ll back him.”

No, not really. Sitting and past presidents traditionally do not insert themselves into the nominating process as they prefer, and the party prefers, that the process play out. Obama not endorsing Sleepy Woke Joe until now is nothing more than him allowing the process to play out and then backing whoever the eventual nominee is. Obama would have endorsed Bernie had Bernie been the nominee. And he would have encouraged ALL democrats to get behind Bernie and help him win. Hardly an "if he's all we got," moment.

So basically he would’ve endorsed whoever won the primary. So for all we know, he could think Biden’s not a good choice (didn’t Obama say that in 2015 and that’s what led to Joe not running? I can’t remember but I thought he had something to do with Hillary being the party’s choice). I dunno, I just don’t think endorsements mean much. Especially something like this. Is he really endorsing Joe Biden? Or is he endorsing “insert democratic nominee here”?

Obama didn't endorse Clinton until June of 16, when the race was over.  Same thing here.  And yes, that's the point.  Obama does not want to be seen as tipping the scales in a contested primary, so he remained silent.  He was clear that was his plan in 16 and 20.  And yes, one would think he would endorse any D put forward against Trump.  That seems to be a fairly reasonable conclusion. 

mrussel1 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

mrussel1 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

CM189191 said:

https://twitter.com/cnnbrk/status/1250065535200616448?s=19

What an endorsement for Joe! So between Biden and Trump, Obama sides with Biden. Talk about playing it safe. I guess Obama didn’t want to endorse when it was possible that Joe wouldn’t win the primary. It looks like Obama is like me and and many others that’ll vote for Joe in November: “Well, if he’s all we got, I guess I’ll back him.”

No, not really. Sitting and past presidents traditionally do not insert themselves into the nominating process as they prefer, and the party prefers, that the process play out. Obama not endorsing Sleepy Woke Joe until now is nothing more than him allowing the process to play out and then backing whoever the eventual nominee is. Obama would have endorsed Bernie had Bernie been the nominee. And he would have encouraged ALL democrats to get behind Bernie and help him win. Hardly an "if he's all we got," moment.

So basically he would’ve endorsed whoever won the primary. So for all we know, he could think Biden’s not a good choice (didn’t Obama say that in 2015 and that’s what led to Joe not running? I can’t remember but I thought he had something to do with Hillary being the party’s choice). I dunno, I just don’t think endorsements mean much. Especially something like this. Is he really endorsing Joe Biden? Or is he endorsing “insert democratic nominee here”?

Obama didn't endorse Clinton until June of 16, when the race was over.  Same thing here.  And yes, that's the point.  Obama does not want to be seen as tipping the scales in a contested primary, so he remained silent.  He was clear that was his plan in 16 and 20.  And yes, one would think he would endorse any D put forward against Trump.  That seems to be a fairly reasonable conclusion. 

I’m not referring to his actual public endorsement of Hillary following the primary. I was under the impression that behind-the-scenes, he was instrumental in Joe not running, because he thought Hillary was the better candidate. I could be wrong, I can’t remember where I read that. But it makes sense because Joe not running in 2016 did NOT make sense. I’ve heard the reasoning that his son had just passed and that’s why he didn’t run. That might be true as well. But man, following Obama (who was popular), and going against Hilary and then Trump? 2016 was Joe’s year. 2020 might be too, but 2016 definitely was. 

Well I'm sure Joe and Obama had a conversation about it.  Biden is a team player and has shown himself to be that during his whole career, and by the fact that he was so respectful of Obama throughout the 8 years.  Barack very well may have advised him not to run, and allow HRC to take the mantle.  There's nothing wrong with that.  I'm sure Obama also weighed in on Joe running this year.  But I thought this whole conversation was about the public endorsement which is what you linked to at the beginning. 

Ledbetterman10 said:

mrussel1 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

mrussel1 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

CM189191 said:

https://twitter.com/cnnbrk/status/1250065535200616448?s=19

What an endorsement for Joe! So between Biden and Trump, Obama sides with Biden. Talk about playing it safe. I guess Obama didn’t want to endorse when it was possible that Joe wouldn’t win the primary. It looks like Obama is like me and and many others that’ll vote for Joe in November: “Well, if he’s all we got, I guess I’ll back him.”

No, not really. Sitting and past presidents traditionally do not insert themselves into the nominating process as they prefer, and the party prefers, that the process play out. Obama not endorsing Sleepy Woke Joe until now is nothing more than him allowing the process to play out and then backing whoever the eventual nominee is. Obama would have endorsed Bernie had Bernie been the nominee. And he would have encouraged ALL democrats to get behind Bernie and help him win. Hardly an "if he's all we got," moment.

So basically he would’ve endorsed whoever won the primary. So for all we know, he could think Biden’s not a good choice (didn’t Obama say that in 2015 and that’s what led to Joe not running? I can’t remember but I thought he had something to do with Hillary being the party’s choice). I dunno, I just don’t think endorsements mean much. Especially something like this. Is he really endorsing Joe Biden? Or is he endorsing “insert democratic nominee here”?

Obama didn't endorse Clinton until June of 16, when the race was over.  Same thing here.  And yes, that's the point.  Obama does not want to be seen as tipping the scales in a contested primary, so he remained silent.  He was clear that was his plan in 16 and 20.  And yes, one would think he would endorse any D put forward against Trump.  That seems to be a fairly reasonable conclusion. 

I’m not referring to his actual public endorsement of Hillary following the primary. I was under the impression that behind-the-scenes, he was instrumental in Joe not running, because he thought Hillary was the better candidate. I could be wrong, I can’t remember where I read that. But it makes sense because Joe not running in 2016 did NOT make sense. I’ve heard the reasoning that his son had just passed and that’s why he didn’t run. That might be true as well. But man, following Obama (who was popular), and going against Hilary and then Trump? 2016 was Joe’s year. 2020 might be too, but 2016 definitely was. 

Well I'm sure Joe and Obama had a conversation about it.  Biden is a team player and has shown himself to be that during his whole career, and by the fact that he was so respectful of Obama throughout the 8 years.  Barack very well may have advised him not to run, and allow HRC to take the mantle.  There's nothing wrong with that.  I'm sure Obama also weighed in on Joe running this year.  But I thought this whole conversation was about the public endorsement which is what you linked to at the beginning. 

Well that was the conversation but I made reference to Obama’s behind-the-scenes endorsement of Hillary and I thought you were responding to that. 

And there is something wrong with him telling Joe to step aside and let Hillary have the mantle. This why party politics suck. Why couldn’t they both run in the 2016 primary and let the Democratic electorate choose? 

dankind said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

mrussel1 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

mrussel1 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

CM189191 said:

https://twitter.com/cnnbrk/status/1250065535200616448?s=19

What an endorsement for Joe! So between Biden and Trump, Obama sides with Biden. Talk about playing it safe. I guess Obama didn’t want to endorse when it was possible that Joe wouldn’t win the primary. It looks like Obama is like me and and many others that’ll vote for Joe in November: “Well, if he’s all we got, I guess I’ll back him.”

No, not really. Sitting and past presidents traditionally do not insert themselves into the nominating process as they prefer, and the party prefers, that the process play out. Obama not endorsing Sleepy Woke Joe until now is nothing more than him allowing the process to play out and then backing whoever the eventual nominee is. Obama would have endorsed Bernie had Bernie been the nominee. And he would have encouraged ALL democrats to get behind Bernie and help him win. Hardly an "if he's all we got," moment.

So basically he would’ve endorsed whoever won the primary. So for all we know, he could think Biden’s not a good choice (didn’t Obama say that in 2015 and that’s what led to Joe not running? I can’t remember but I thought he had something to do with Hillary being the party’s choice). I dunno, I just don’t think endorsements mean much. Especially something like this. Is he really endorsing Joe Biden? Or is he endorsing “insert democratic nominee here”?

Obama didn't endorse Clinton until June of 16, when the race was over.  Same thing here.  And yes, that's the point.  Obama does not want to be seen as tipping the scales in a contested primary, so he remained silent.  He was clear that was his plan in 16 and 20.  And yes, one would think he would endorse any D put forward against Trump.  That seems to be a fairly reasonable conclusion. 

I’m not referring to his actual public endorsement of Hillary following the primary. I was under the impression that behind-the-scenes, he was instrumental in Joe not running, because he thought Hillary was the better candidate. I could be wrong, I can’t remember where I read that. But it makes sense because Joe not running in 2016 did NOT make sense. I’ve heard the reasoning that his son had just passed and that’s why he didn’t run. That might be true as well. But man, following Obama (who was popular), and going against Hilary and then Trump? 2016 was Joe’s year. 2020 might be too, but 2016 definitely was. 

Well I'm sure Joe and Obama had a conversation about it.  Biden is a team player and has shown himself to be that during his whole career, and by the fact that he was so respectful of Obama throughout the 8 years.  Barack very well may have advised him not to run, and allow HRC to take the mantle.  There's nothing wrong with that.  I'm sure Obama also weighed in on Joe running this year.  But I thought this whole conversation was about the public endorsement which is what you linked to at the beginning. 

Well that was the conversation but I made reference to Obama’s behind-the-scenes endorsement of Hillary and I thought you were responding to that. 

And there is something wrong with him telling Joe to step aside and let Hillary have the mantle. This why party politics suck. Why couldn’t they both run in the 2016 primary and let the Democratic electorate choose?