The coronavirus
Comments
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I don't think it's a lack of food issue, such much as it is a lack of distribution networks and the ability to store/refrigerate foodnicknyr15 said:
I thought I read that only the rich and powerful lobby for these markets. Is there really still a lack of food issue in China?CM189191 said:Thoughts_Arrive said:Shame on the World(China) Health Organization for permitting wet markets to reopen in China.
What makes you think the WHO has authority to close or open the wet markets in the first place?
Where would you like millions of Chinese people to get their food? Would you rather that they starve to death?
It's the kind of hyper-localized economy many Americans would love to have: The ability to buy all your food fresh from the farmer down the street.
I would think the rich and powerful would be lobbying for factory farming and mass distribution in China0 -
Gotcha. I don’t make the argument about WHAT they eat. It’s more about how it’s conducted without any regulations.CM189191 said:
I don't think it's a lack of food issue, such much as it is a lack of distribution networks and the ability to store/refrigerate foodnicknyr15 said:
I thought I read that only the rich and powerful lobby for these markets. Is there really still a lack of food issue in China?CM189191 said:Thoughts_Arrive said:Shame on the World(China) Health Organization for permitting wet markets to reopen in China.
What makes you think the WHO has authority to close or open the wet markets in the first place?
Where would you like millions of Chinese people to get their food? Would you rather that they starve to death?
It's the kind of hyper-localized economy many Americans would love to have: The ability to buy all your food fresh from the farmer down the street.
I would think the rich and powerful would be lobbying for factory farming and mass distribution in China0 -
Here you go...CM189191 said:Thoughts_Arrive said:Shame on the World(China) Health Organization for permitting wet markets to reopen in China.
What makes you think the WHO has authority to close or open the wet markets in the first place?
Where would you like millions of Chinese people to get their food? Would you rather that they starve to death?
https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/health-wellbeing/pm-puzzled-by-unfathomable-animal-markets-c-973992?fbclid=IwAR2ktF62BPWD9zEQLFSK9v8seu1NYC4k9TfkAzSRIZ0mj3iK3fFly1K0Eac
So hundreds of thousands of innocent people should die around the world and we should have people losing their jobs and their businesses and being in lockdown. All this which leads to mental health issues and suicides. One person has taken his life in quarantine here.
You think that is acceptable?
That is the CCP's problem. They have the money, they should finance making wet markets hygienic.
They are a massive country, why can't they farm livestock like cattle and sheep for consumption.Post edited by Thoughts_Arrive onAdelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/20140 -
From Swedish newspaper Expressen:
Sweden handles the corona epidemic in a way that stands out internationally. Instead of shutting down entire communities, the Public Health Authority appeals for responsibility and urges people to follow the advice and recommendations given.Internationally, Sweden has received harsh criticism - now 22 [swedish] scientists/scholars have joined forces in a joint debate article (op-ed) in Dagens Nyheter."With officials without the talent to predict or limit the epidemic, elected officials must intervene with swift and radical measures," the scholars write.Björn Olsen, Professor of Infectious Diseases, Joacim Rocklöv, Professor of Epidemiology, and Lena Einhorn, Doctor of Virology, are three of the names signed in the debate article."One fact is the death toll that is rushing to the top, and especially on our elderly homes that the Public Health Agency has constantly said they must protect," Lena Einhorn told Expressen.At today's press conference, state epidemiologist Anders Tegnell rejected the criticism. He says that the researchers have factual errors about how they refer to figures in the debate article.- First of all, I absolutely want to deny that we do not have a well thought out strategy, we certainly have, that will have to stand for them. Also, the death figures they quote are incorrect, they do not match the Swedish death figures you see here. In addition, we know that in Italy, only deaths are registered in hospitals, so there are a number of fundamental errors in that article unfortunately, says Anders Tegnell at the Public Health Agency's daily press meeting.He says that other countries have had high death rates, although the measures have been more restrictive than in Sweden.- Then you can look at countries that have taken tough measures, such as Belgium, where it is worse than in Sweden. One must be careful in making judgments how different countries have succeeded. Especially when we are in different phases in the development.The researchers compare the death rates with Norway, Finland and Denmark and find that more per one million inhabitants have died in Sweden than in any other Nordic country."In Sweden, more than ten times as many people now die from the coronavirus as in our neighboring Finland."- They look feverishly after reasons to show they know what they are doing, that they have a strategy, it is different from the rest of the world, but that they know what they are doing. But it's not. Because if you look from the beginning they have constantly played down the danger and they have not acted proactively. Suddenly you stand there without protective equipment and wide testing opportunities. We have the facts on our side, says the virology doctor Lena Einhorn.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0 -
..
.Spiritual_Chaos said:Not sure what the point is? Sweden has a higher fatality rate than the US. Accounting for a population factor of 33 and perhaps triple the amount of international travel, per capita the USA has had a much lower case level than Sweden to date.0 -
Email CNN and ask? I guess they are covering different countries and their handling of the pandemic?Lerxst1992 said:..
.Spiritual_Chaos said:Not sure what the point is? Sweden has a higher fatality rate than the US. Accounting for a population factor of 33 and perhaps triple the amount of international travel, per capita the USA has had a much lower case level than Sweden to date.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0 -
You really don't know much about food production, do you? On the scale required to feed 1.4 billion people, the next superbug will just come from the Western style livestock farms with which you are culturally comfortable (despite a lack of real experience or knowledge) like Swine Flu, MERS, and who knows what else.Thoughts_Arrive said:
Here you go...CM189191 said:Thoughts_Arrive said:Shame on the World(China) Health Organization for permitting wet markets to reopen in China.
What makes you think the WHO has authority to close or open the wet markets in the first place?
Where would you like millions of Chinese people to get their food? Would you rather that they starve to death?
https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/health-wellbeing/pm-puzzled-by-unfathomable-animal-markets-c-973992?fbclid=IwAR2ktF62BPWD9zEQLFSK9v8seu1NYC4k9TfkAzSRIZ0mj3iK3fFly1K0Eac
So hundreds of thousands of innocent people should die around the world and we should have people losing their jobs and their businesses and being in lockdown. All this which leads to mental health issues and suicides. One person has taken his life in quarantine here.
You think that is acceptable?
That is the CCP's problem. They have the money, they should finance making wet markets hygienic.
They are a massive country, why can't they farm livestock like cattle and sheep for consumption.
Monkey Driven, Call this Living?0 -
A higher short term fatality rate is a fait accompli with their approach. Flattening the curve doesn't necessarily reduce the volume, it just spreads it out. If they don't wind up with incremental deaths because of an overwhelmed healthcare system, you can make the argument that their approach is working. Unless a miracle vaccine pops up in the next few months.Lerxst1992 said:..
.Spiritual_Chaos said:Not sure what the point is? Sweden has a higher fatality rate than the US. Accounting for a population factor of 33 and perhaps triple the amount of international travel, per capita the USA has had a much lower case level than Sweden to date.0 -
'either close all the wet markets or hundreds of thousands of people will die'Thoughts_Arrive said:
Here you go...CM189191 said:Thoughts_Arrive said:Shame on the World(China) Health Organization for permitting wet markets to reopen in China.
What makes you think the WHO has authority to close or open the wet markets in the first place?
Where would you like millions of Chinese people to get their food? Would you rather that they starve to death?
https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/health-wellbeing/pm-puzzled-by-unfathomable-animal-markets-c-973992?fbclid=IwAR2ktF62BPWD9zEQLFSK9v8seu1NYC4k9TfkAzSRIZ0mj3iK3fFly1K0Eac
So hundreds of thousands of innocent people should die around the world and we should have people losing their jobs and their businesses and being in lockdown. All this which leads to mental health issues and suicides. One person has taken his life in quarantine here.
You think that is acceptable?
That is the CCP's problem. They have the money, they should finance making wet markets hygienic.
They are a massive country, why can't they farm livestock like cattle and sheep for consumption.
A false dilemma (or sometimes called false dichotomy) is a type of informal fallacy in which a statement falsely claims an "either/or" situation, when in fact there is at least one additional logically valid option.
I am missing the part in the article where is says the WHO actually has any sort of authority over China's decision to reopen the wet markets.
Yes, the CPC can and should do a better job of regulation and enforcement (aka: at least one additional logically valid option).
And I'm pretty sure China does farm cattle and sheep for consumption. 3rd & 1st largest inventories in the world according to the internets.0 -
Why do these viruses keep originating in China? Regardless of which animal they come from.rgambs said:
You really don't know much about food production, do you? On the scale required to feed 1.4 billion people, the next superbug will just come from the Western style livestock farms with which you are culturally comfortable (despite a lack of real experience or knowledge) like Swine Flu, MERS, and who knows what else.Thoughts_Arrive said:
Here you go...CM189191 said:Thoughts_Arrive said:Shame on the World(China) Health Organization for permitting wet markets to reopen in China.
What makes you think the WHO has authority to close or open the wet markets in the first place?
Where would you like millions of Chinese people to get their food? Would you rather that they starve to death?
https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/health-wellbeing/pm-puzzled-by-unfathomable-animal-markets-c-973992?fbclid=IwAR2ktF62BPWD9zEQLFSK9v8seu1NYC4k9TfkAzSRIZ0mj3iK3fFly1K0Eac
So hundreds of thousands of innocent people should die around the world and we should have people losing their jobs and their businesses and being in lockdown. All this which leads to mental health issues and suicides. One person has taken his life in quarantine here.
You think that is acceptable?
That is the CCP's problem. They have the money, they should finance making wet markets hygienic.
They are a massive country, why can't they farm livestock like cattle and sheep for consumption.
I doubt they'd come from livestock.
More like, from bats and pangolins.
Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/20140 -
The CCP controls Australian universities.
A student got expelled here for criticising the CCP and his universities dealings with them.
CCP owns Australia now.Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/20140 -
I think our best bet is the world pools together resources and knowledge moving forward to protect us from such an outbreak. When something is detected like in Wuhan, everyone works in cohesion to isolate the cases, shut down travel, contact tracing, testing, etc...
Of course that man-baby who currently sits his fat ass in the White House doesnt understand that it is 2020 and global cooperation is now a thing. Conversely, you would need cooperation from places like China and Russia who typically arent so open.
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Göran asks if we are sure that all the Corona viruses are coming from China? Have viruses been born at other places?Thoughts_Arrive said:
Why do these viruses keep originating in China?rgambs said:
You really don't know much about food production, do you? On the scale required to feed 1.4 billion people, the next superbug will just come from the Western style livestock farms with which you are culturally comfortable (despite a lack of real experience or knowledge) like Swine Flu, MERS, and who knows what else.Thoughts_Arrive said:
Here you go...CM189191 said:Thoughts_Arrive said:Shame on the World(China) Health Organization for permitting wet markets to reopen in China.
What makes you think the WHO has authority to close or open the wet markets in the first place?
Where would you like millions of Chinese people to get their food? Would you rather that they starve to death?
https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/health-wellbeing/pm-puzzled-by-unfathomable-animal-markets-c-973992?fbclid=IwAR2ktF62BPWD9zEQLFSK9v8seu1NYC4k9TfkAzSRIZ0mj3iK3fFly1K0Eac
So hundreds of thousands of innocent people should die around the world and we should have people losing their jobs and their businesses and being in lockdown. All this which leads to mental health issues and suicides. One person has taken his life in quarantine here.
You think that is acceptable?
That is the CCP's problem. They have the money, they should finance making wet markets hygienic.
They are a massive country, why can't they farm livestock like cattle and sheep for consumption.
Giesecke: Most from southeast asia. Because of people living very close, and living very close to animals. That can be spoken of at length. But the swineflu that came around a few years ago, that actually started in Mexico and southern california. So it's not always China.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0 -
Did you know what a pangolin was before 2020?More like, from bats and pangolins.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0 -
Don't degrade an honest and noble man like this. Thank you.rgambs said:
Some of this is a bit reckless, some of it is criminally irresponsible, and some of it is flat out false!Spiritual_Chaos said:*** THE MAN OF THE HOUR JOHAN GIESECKE ***
Question: Trump might not support WHO anymore - what is your thought on that?
Giesecke: This is not the first time the americans has done this. They push WHO a lot to the direction they want it to be headed. They pay a lot to the WHO but it's with strings attached - meaning they always want the organization to be run the way that servers their interests.
Question: The situation Norway versus Sweden, looking so differently when it comes to the amount of dead. How is this explained?
Giesecke: There is actually an explanation, that I happen to believe is correct. We were unlucky in Sweden with the virus getting in to our retirement homes very quickly. And in Norway this has started much later. Come back to me in a few weeks, and I don't think the differences will be as big anymore.
Kerstin asks if suffering from pollen allergy will make the corona infection worse?
Giesecke: No.
Roland asks if the virus has changed/mutaded so that is its now affecting the young much more. That's what happened with "the asian" (the virus pandemic in 1957) he remembers.
Giesecke: That is true, but there are no signs that this is happening to this current virus.
Someone asks about a "walking buddy" she/he has that says he can not be a bearer of the virus, because he feels completely healthy. And is taking no strides to follow restrictions. Should I avoid taking walks with him? We are both above 70.
Giesecke: You should talk reason with him. But you can keep take walks. It is a very good activity.
Robin asks, if so many are without symptoms, won't we see a big peak when we open up society again?
Giesecke: There is something to what he says. And I can talk for hours about opening up society, but will spare you that. But it won't be easy. You have to lift restrictions one at a time. Test one at a time.
Harriet asks, if the virus when reaching the lungs turn into pneumonia - then why not treat it with antibiotics?
Giesecke: This is what happened to a large extent with The Spanish Flu ("Kansas Flu" on this board?) a 100 years ago. People often died in pneumonia that came after the virus. But not here. People dying in Corona (not using "the chinese virus") they die of the virus itself in their lungs.
Mia askas, she got confirmed that she had Corona yesterday. Now will her husband infect his colleagues and others? He doesn't have any symptoms.
Giesecke: He should keep working. He doesn't infect his colleagues. If he doesn't feel sick - he should work. But the slightest sympton, stay home.
Göran asks if we are sure that all the Corona viruses are coming from China? Have viruses been born at other places?
Giesecke: Most from southeast asia. Because of people living very close, and living very close to animals. That can be spoken of at leangth. But the swineflu that came around a few years ago, that actually started in Mexico and southern california (He doesn't call it "california flu", but maybe people on this board and Bill Maher does?). So it's not always China.
Sia, asks if those who has taken a flu shot could be better shielded from the virus?
Giesecke: No.
Göran asks, there is talk about herd immunity. So, we need 6 million people having the virus? With my limited math-skills we are way off on hitting those numbers.
Giesecke: First, many has had this virus without noticing. Then, how many we need for her immunity - yes, about 5-6 million people and that we won't reach this first wave. The risk is we will have a pretty big wave come this fall.
Helena asks, she starts every day with checking her fever, taking deep breaths and than a 2 kilometer walk. Then, she can't have the virus?
Giesecke: You can have it without symptoms. But it sounds like a great way to start the day.
We get a lot of questions coming in about face masks - do they work or not?
Giesecke: Good facemasks work in the healthcare environment. Walking around outside all day with a facemask, and especially the white ones with rubberbands around the ears are rather pointless.
Someone asks if double coffee-filters could help
Giesecke: *laughs* It's not worse than the ones with rubber bands around the ears at least.
Someone asks, us people with eyeglasses - shouldn't we be better protected.
Giesecke: *laughs* Yeah, there can be something to that. But there are no studies of it, that I can tell you. But the idea is interesting.
Jörgen asks, what do you want to tell the people crowding on the cities outdoor seating areas at restaurants?
Giesecke: It looks like restrictions will be a lot stricter on this going forward. All restaurants to not take their responsibility.
Hans asks, my father in-law has been let out of the hospital. When can we meet him again?
Giesecke: 7 days after first symptom, and 2 days after last symptom.
Someone asks - how long does the virus live on different surfaces.
Giesecke: There are different information coming about that - from minutes to a day. A day I do not believe. But for a while it will live.
Kristina asks if different blood groups are better or worse in getting the virus
Giesecke: There are studies about just this. But don't remember of the top of my head, what blood group.
Someone asks, can it transfer from visiting the restroom.
Giesecke: No.
Finally, Desiree asks - how long will all of this take?
The worst is over in a few weeks. But untill it is completely gone, months.
This man is a fucking menace."Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0 -
The bolded part is exactly the problem this time around. China suppressed the information instead of working in cohesion to isolate the cases, etc.MayDay10 said:I think our best bet is the world pools together resources and knowledge moving forward to protect us from such an outbreak. When something is detected like in Wuhan, everyone works in cohesion to isolate the cases, shut down travel, contact tracing, testing, etc...
Of course that man-baby who currently sits his fat ass in the White House doesnt understand that it is 2020 and global cooperation is now a thing. Conversely, you would need cooperation from places like China and Russia who typically arent so open.
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So when/if everything gets back to some form of regularity , how many here will protest our government still dealing with China what kind of repercussions would you like to see happeningjesus greets me looks just like me ....0
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1.4 billion people, that's why.Thoughts_Arrive said:
Why do these viruses keep originating in China? Regardless of which animal they come from.rgambs said:
You really don't know much about food production, do you? On the scale required to feed 1.4 billion people, the next superbug will just come from the Western style livestock farms with which you are culturally comfortable (despite a lack of real experience or knowledge) like Swine Flu, MERS, and who knows what else.Thoughts_Arrive said:
Here you go...CM189191 said:Thoughts_Arrive said:Shame on the World(China) Health Organization for permitting wet markets to reopen in China.
What makes you think the WHO has authority to close or open the wet markets in the first place?
Where would you like millions of Chinese people to get their food? Would you rather that they starve to death?
https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/health-wellbeing/pm-puzzled-by-unfathomable-animal-markets-c-973992?fbclid=IwAR2ktF62BPWD9zEQLFSK9v8seu1NYC4k9TfkAzSRIZ0mj3iK3fFly1K0Eac
So hundreds of thousands of innocent people should die around the world and we should have people losing their jobs and their businesses and being in lockdown. All this which leads to mental health issues and suicides. One person has taken his life in quarantine here.
You think that is acceptable?
That is the CCP's problem. They have the money, they should finance making wet markets hygienic.
They are a massive country, why can't they farm livestock like cattle and sheep for consumption.
I doubt they'd come from livestock.
More like, from bats and pangolins.
Again, you don't know what you are talking about, Swine Flu originated in US/Mexican pork CAFOs and MERS was from camels. H5N1 originated in poultry.
All livestock.
Put down the conspiracy theories, stop getting information from memes, and stop rejecting solid information that people here provide out of butthurtedness at being called racist once.Monkey Driven, Call this Living?0 -
"Scott Morrison has scolded the World Health Organisation for supporting the reopening of wet markets in China.CM189191 said:
'either close all the wet markets or hundreds of thousands of people will die'Thoughts_Arrive said:
Here you go...CM189191 said:Thoughts_Arrive said:Shame on the World(China) Health Organization for permitting wet markets to reopen in China.
What makes you think the WHO has authority to close or open the wet markets in the first place?
Where would you like millions of Chinese people to get their food? Would you rather that they starve to death?
https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/health-wellbeing/pm-puzzled-by-unfathomable-animal-markets-c-973992?fbclid=IwAR2ktF62BPWD9zEQLFSK9v8seu1NYC4k9TfkAzSRIZ0mj3iK3fFly1K0Eac
So hundreds of thousands of innocent people should die around the world and we should have people losing their jobs and their businesses and being in lockdown. All this which leads to mental health issues and suicides. One person has taken his life in quarantine here.
You think that is acceptable?
That is the CCP's problem. They have the money, they should finance making wet markets hygienic.
They are a massive country, why can't they farm livestock like cattle and sheep for consumption.
A false dilemma (or sometimes called false dichotomy) is a type of informal fallacy in which a statement falsely claims an "either/or" situation, when in fact there is at least one additional logically valid option.
I am missing the part in the article where is says the WHO actually has any sort of authority over China's decision to reopen the wet markets.
Yes, the CPC can and should do a better job of regulation and enforcement (aka: at least one additional logically valid option).
And I'm pretty sure China does farm cattle and sheep for consumption. 3rd & 1st largest inventories in the world according to the internets.The prime minister said it was “unfathomable” to support live animal markets, where experts believe coronavirus originated in the city of Wuhan."
Sorry support was the word I should have used.Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/20140 -
No, did you? Why do you ask?Spiritual_Chaos said:
Did you know what a pangolin was before 2020?More like, from bats and pangolins.
Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/20140
https://youtu.be/B4aiiu5hrRM
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