The coronavirus

Spunkie · March 2020

@mcG...

3-4 hours outside of Vancouver, BC (or 2.5 if you drive like the wind!)

We call it Canada's California. Water - Alpine Skis, rinse repeat... 3 more weeks till Spring Suit Water Ski Season! Mountain closed today for skiers.

Lerxst1992 · March 2020

bbiggs said:

The data is clear that elderly people are not able to fight off this virus well; however, I wonder if there are cases where someone in their 80's HAS fully recovered. You would think those cases do exist based on the amount of people that have contracted the virus. Anyone see any news in regards to this?

According to China's data, the fatality rate was around 20% for those over 80 and 1% and lower for those under 50.

I'd expect to US over 80 rates to be lower.

static111 · March 2020

Spiritual_Chaos said:

So, a question...

Now we are pretty much locking down society entirely as a whole and people are kept isolated, and stores and restaurants will not survive and it will be a huge blow to the economy, peoples jobs etc.

At the same time the mortality amongst people under 50 or whatever is not big. And with all these measures - if just someones visits Sweden later and has it it will spread again, just like now...

So why doesn't we keep sick and old people on a super lockdown - and the rest just live as normal and get infected and live through it (but with some washing hands-precuastions etc) for the 2 weeks or whatever you are sick? With the mortality rate being as low as it is. And then we will reach immunity in society and people (not old and sick) can keep going out, and shopping etc.

Having curfews and saying people should stay at home seems to be a weird way to stop it when it will explode again with just one person having it walking into a crowd.

I mean, is this gonna keep going until a vaccine is out? Or what is the end goal here...

Maybe I'm missing something here. I'm tired and it's late.

Gonna grab myself a beer, as Reel Big Fish sings.

I’m with you. I’m a contract worker and the next two months were supposed to basically make my family money for the next 6 months. Everything has been cancelled. If I can’t make income and my government is clearly doing nothing to help, how are bills supposed to get paid?

Luckily we have a small emergency fund that can probably get us through two months. I can only imagine how hard it is gonna be for people that are less fortunate as my family. Anything short of forgiving debt and rent/mortgage commitments until this passes as well as some sort of stimulus seems like it will destroy the economy and put millions out of work.

Spunkie · March 2020

@SC... They mortality rates re: age/gender/co-morbidities have not been updated in over a month. That's saying something.

mcgruff10 · March 2020

tish said:

@mcG...

3-4 hours outside of Vancouver, BC (or 2.5 if you drive like the wind!)

We call it Canada's California. Water - Alpine Skis, rinse repeat... 3 more weeks till Spring Suit Water Ski Season! Mountain closed today for skiers.

So jealous! Our highest “mountain” is 1803 feet! Lol

Spiritual_Chaos · March 2020

Ledbetterman10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

So, a question...

Now we are pretty much locking down society entirely as a whole and people are kept isolated, and stores and restaurants will not survive and it will be a huge blow to the economy, peoples jobs etc.

At the same time the mortality amongst people under 50 or whatever is not big. And with all these measures - if just someones visits Sweden later and has it it will spread again, just like now...

So why doesn't we keep sick and old people on a super lockdown - and the rest just live as normal and get infected and live through it (but with some washing hands-precuastions etc) for the 2 weeks or whatever you are sick? With the mortality rate being as low as it is. And then we will reach immunity in society and people (not old and sick) can keep going out, and shopping etc.

Having curfews and saying people should stay at home seems to be a weird way to stop it when it will explode again with just one person having it walking into a crowd.

I mean, is this gonna keep going until a vaccine is out? Or what is the end goal here...

Maybe I'm missing something here. I'm tired and it's late.

Gonna grab myself a beer, as Reel Big Fish sings.

But what constitutes a "sick and old" person? A certain age? A certain diagnosis?

I think your premise is sound enough: get sick, get it over with, and move on with your life...rather than walking on eggshells in fear of catching it. But I think there'd be a lot of people who think they're healthy enough to deal with it, but really aren't due to immune systems, lungs, etc. But they might not know that until they catch it.

Give people the opportunity to a health check if they are worried or suspect they are not up to par?

Other people might be unlucky, like you can with any disease if you happen to have something wrong with your lungs, immune system etc.

This feels to me like using all these medicines to treat HIV (without having the funds to actually do so), but just like with HIV it will blossom again if you stop it.

I guess that you want to stop the pandemic and then be able to deal with smaller "explosions". But I mean, one person coughing at a hockey game and the chain reaction has started again.

And keeping children away from schools? The best thing for most of them -- and us -- would be to catch it. With them not dying from it, pretty much at all.

THIS FEELS LIKE A SEQUEL TO "IT FOLLOWS" OR "THE RING" -- IT CAN'T BE STOPPED! WE ARE JUST PUSHING THE PROBLEM FURTHER INTO THE FUTURE. And paying a hefty price to do so.

Merkin Baller · March 2020

Call me crazy, but I feel like locking up the most vulnerable of our population isn't the answer here.

mcgruff10 · March 2020

Pretty sure I might read this to my kids tonight:

Spiritual_Chaos · March 2020

The suppliers raise the price of medical supplies

Gloves, mouth guards and visors are some of the health care's most important products in the fight against the corona virus. But 20 of the health care's 100 most important articles are currently difficult to obtain. In addition, the suppliers raise prices on these well.

Closed borders and quarantine at factories make it difficult to obtain medical supplies that care needs in the fight against the corona virus.

Therefore, the Supply Chain Committee, made a list of the 100 most important products for health care, something that P4 Örebro first told us. The purpose is to point out which articles must absolutely not end.

But 20 of these articles are currently difficult to obtain.

- Overall, it looks good, but then there are products that are in a critical position, says Bechet Barsom (KD), chair of the Supply Chain Committee.

Raises prices

In addition, suppliers are starting to increase the price of the most important products.

"These are huge increases," says Bechet Barsom.

Prices are higher than stated in the agreement between the Supply Chain Committee and the suppliers. When the Supply Chain Committee meets on Thursday, they must decide on how to handle the high prices.

Fuck predatory capitalism.

Sanders: Fuck that bullshit.

Biden: Hey look man, a man's got to be able to make a buck.

Trump: I wish I was in the beautiful health care supply business instead of being President. Believe me.

Spiritual_Chaos · March 2020

Dr. Ignace Demeyer, who works at a hospital in Aalst, said an increasing number of people between the ages of 30 and 50 have presented with severe symptoms, despite having “blank medical records” that show no underlying conditions that would make them high-risk, the Brussels Times reported.“

They just walk in, but they are terribly affected by the virus,” Demeyer told the Belgian broadcaster VRT.

He said CT scans indicated they were suffering from severe lung damage.

“The images we took yesterday are nothing short of terrifying,” the doctor told the station.

“They are people who do not smoke, who have no other conditions such as diabetes or heart failure,” Demeyer added.

Okey. Fuck this. I'm staying isolated in my apartment till fucking summers almost gone.

brianlux · March 2020

Spiritual_Chaos said:

So, a question...

Now we are pretty much locking down society entirely as a whole and people are kept isolated, and stores and restaurants will not survive and it will be a huge blow to the economy, peoples jobs etc.

At the same time the mortality amongst people under 50 or whatever is not big. And with all these measures - if just someones visits Sweden later and has it it will spread again, just like now...

So why doesn't we keep sick and old people on a super lockdown - and the rest just live as normal and get infected and live through it (but with some washing hands-precuastions etc) for the 2 weeks or whatever you are sick? With the mortality rate being as low as it is. And then we will reach immunity in society and people (not old and sick) can keep going out, and shopping etc.

Having curfews and saying people should stay at home seems to be a weird way to stop it when it will explode again with just one person having it walking into a crowd.

I mean, is this gonna keep going until a vaccine is out? Or what is the end goal here...

Maybe I'm missing something here. I'm tired and it's late.

Gonna grab myself a beer, as Reel Big Fish sings.

A lot of this makes some sense. The problem is, we don't know enough about this virus yet and there's a good reason they call it a "novel" (as in "new and not resembling something formerly known/ not previously identified") virus. We don't know yet if or how this virus could mutate. Plus, it is already too late to stop the spread of the disease and what the isolating will do is lower the curve so as not to overwhelm the health care system. And remember, in many parts of the world, especially in the U.S., many younger people are unhealthy- just look at how prevalent obesity, at how poor many Americans diet is (McDonalds, anyone?) or the number of young people with asthma which has resulted from air pollution among other things.

I guess if one wanted to take a purely objective, biocentric viewpoint we would say that this virus is an inevitable and normal process Mother Nature does when a population gets out of hand and/ or is unhealthy and that, in the long run, it is a good thing for the species. In nature, things like this happen to cull the weak members of the herd or species and it strengthens the species in the long run.

But most other species don't have the emotions we do and probably none at the level at which we are emotional. We don't want to lose family members. Old farts like me do not want to be culled from the herd just yet. We want to live as long as reasonably possible (i.e., if I were a complete invalid with no quality of life I would not be as afraid of this virus as I currently am.)

So, hopefully, we will learn some important lessons through all of this about keep our numbers reasonable, about the foolish behavior of eating bats and other wild life, etc. (the poor choices made by SOME people in China- let's not be racist though), about taking better care of our environment, about (in my opinion) how unwise it is that such large numbers of people travel as broadly and as frequently as we do. Because if we keep up with our behavior as a species, something else will come along, perhaps something even worse than COVID-19, that will be an even greater threat to our well being. What is happening now has been predicted by science. It was inevitable.

Let's learn from this and be a better and wiser kind of animal so that we can go on living a productive, creative, joyful life.

My 25 cents anyway.

benjs · March 2020

When this first started to be tracked (on the 9th), I believe the average deaths per day was down at 56. As of the 13th, this was up to 70. Now, here we are at 88.

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021252/uploads/editor/ud/05d2f4nxv7iz.png

pjhawks · March 2020

Spiritual_Chaos said:

So, a question...

Now we are pretty much locking down society entirely as a whole and people are kept isolated, and stores and restaurants will not survive and it will be a huge blow to the economy, peoples jobs etc.

At the same time the mortality amongst people under 50 or whatever is not big. And with all these measures - if just someones visits Sweden later and has it it will spread again, just like now...

So why doesn't we keep sick and old people on a super lockdown - and the rest just live as normal and get infected and live through it (but with some washing hands-precuastions etc) for the 2 weeks or whatever you are sick? With the mortality rate being as low as it is. And then we will reach immunity in society and people (not old and sick) can keep going out, and shopping etc.

Having curfews and saying people should stay at home seems to be a weird way to stop it when it will explode again with just one person having it walking into a crowd.

I mean, is this gonna keep going until a vaccine is out? Or what is the end goal here...

Maybe I'm missing something here. I'm tired and it's late.

Gonna grab myself a beer, as Reel Big Fish sings.

i get what you are saying. I have the same end game question. when is it or worse what if there isn't an end game anytime soon? you can't shut everything down for months and months. i mean can we go longer than like june 1st with this? so what happens then if there are still cases? that's what worries me. when/how does it end

mickeyrat · March 2020

https://youtu.be/4S2v3DMnb10

SVRDhand13 · March 2020

Spiritual_Chaos · March 2020

pjhawks said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

So, a question...

Now we are pretty much locking down society entirely as a whole and people are kept isolated, and stores and restaurants will not survive and it will be a huge blow to the economy, peoples jobs etc.

At the same time the mortality amongst people under 50 or whatever is not big. And with all these measures - if just someones visits Sweden later and has it it will spread again, just like now...

So why doesn't we keep sick and old people on a super lockdown - and the rest just live as normal and get infected and live through it (but with some washing hands-precuastions etc) for the 2 weeks or whatever you are sick? With the mortality rate being as low as it is. And then we will reach immunity in society and people (not old and sick) can keep going out, and shopping etc.

Having curfews and saying people should stay at home seems to be a weird way to stop it when it will explode again with just one person having it walking into a crowd.

I mean, is this gonna keep going until a vaccine is out? Or what is the end goal here...

Maybe I'm missing something here. I'm tired and it's late.

Gonna grab myself a beer, as Reel Big Fish sings.

i get what you are saying. I have the same end game question. when is it or worse what if there isn't an end game anytime soon? you can't shut everything down for months and months. i mean can we go longer than like june 1st with this? so what happens then if there are still cases? that's what worries me. when/how does it end

I can't imagine smaller, family owned restaurants surviving by even having a few weeks without customers....

There gonna be mass bankruptcies here with smaller companies and stores...

I mean, McDonalds and H&M can ride it out... but local chinese restaurants, pizzerias, clothings stores etc...

Like the restaurant my mom works at, that is located in a mall -- it is dead there, no one visits the mall - all people do is go to the supermarkets and buy toilet paper and canned food.

Toilet paper producers and board games manufacturers will have the spring of their lifetime - but the rest...

oftenreading · March 2020

Lerxst1992 said:

bbiggs said:

The data is clear that elderly people are not able to fight off this virus well; however, I wonder if there are cases where someone in their 80's HAS fully recovered. You would think those cases do exist based on the amount of people that have contracted the virus. Anyone see any news in regards to this?

According to China's data, the fatality rate was around 20% for those over 80 and 1% and lower for those under 50.

I'd expect to US over 80 rates to be lower.

Why do you expect US over 80 fatality rates to be lower than China’s? China has a higher healthy life expectancy rate than the US - that is, older Chinese are healthier than older Americans. Not surprising, considering the differences in diet, rates of obesity; etc

mickeyrat · March 2020

because what could go wrong?

https://www.rollcall.com/2020/03/17/treasury-fed-take-new-actions-to-bolster-lending-during-pandemic/?fbclid=IwAR0Arq7SzbXrnXNzLitUt6slMfC9VV4xbaA8Qb9gkS1dOJqQxvBE-Adr16g

josevolution · March 2020

oftenreading said:

Lerxst1992 said:

bbiggs said:

The data is clear that elderly people are not able to fight off this virus well; however, I wonder if there are cases where someone in their 80's HAS fully recovered. You would think those cases do exist based on the amount of people that have contracted the virus. Anyone see any news in regards to this?

According to China's data, the fatality rate was around 20% for those over 80 and 1% and lower for those under 50.

I'd expect to US over 80 rates to be lower.

Why do you expect US over 80 fatality rates to be lower than China’s? China has a higher healthy life expectancy rate than the US - that is, older Chinese are healthier than older Americans. Not surprising, considering the differences in diet, rates of obesity; etc

I’d say the Chinese are more prone to die since they have a terrible pollution problem, they walk around with masks on regular days..

mcgruff10 · March 2020

Guys this is the family I know:

https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2020/03/its-inconceivable-5-family-members-in-critical-condition-from-covid-19-after-relative-dies.html

The coronavirus

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The suppliers raise the price of medical supplies

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