Who is your choice in the Democratic Presidential Primary?

Lerxst1992 · February 2020

Joe Biden

Halifax2TheMax said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Halifax2TheMax said:
Hate to break it to you, but Bernie is dishonest too. Like really dishonest.

Hmm. i thought they called him "Honest Babe" for a reason

Halifax2TheMax said:

About how he’ll pay for or where the money will come from to pay for all the free stuff. And that it’ll happen when he’s POTUS. Also, doesn’t promising free stuff to everyone, besides being dishonest, equate to bribery?

Tax-funded stuff isn't "free stuff". Never been a problem understanding it over here. So I don't think that is hard to understand for the voters over there either. It's also listed on his website how he'll pay for it. And he has always been able to say how the money needed will be collected for it, so he has stated where it would come from. Speaking of being dishonest 2TheMax.

Halifax2TheMax said:

How dishonest. And where are his medical records?

Don't ask me. In a computer system? File cabinet? He should provide what has been stated is needed to compete or told would be provided.

Halifax2TheMax said:

He might not make it to his inauguration.

You might not either.-

Except I’m not as ancient as Bernie nor have I had a heart attack. Bernie isn’t being honest about his health. He should do what Liz has done.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/02/27/electing-an-older-candidate-carries-risks-just-ask-life-insurance-industry/

All of which needs to be passed by Congress. Bernie never talks about that, it’s just platitudes about how the rich are too rich and the poor are too poor. $30 Trillion. Sorry but Americans don’t like big scary price tags or socialists. Bernie is dishonest claiming all that free stuff becomes reality. It ain’t happening.

Steven Spielberg is making better movies than Len Wiseman.

Steven is 73. Len is 46.

It is not platitudes (that would be Phony Petes area). For a country run by the elites greed and disdain for peoples human worth, it means that for normal people:

How much does their healthcare and medicine cost now in trillions? Because, man this does come off as... off:

ITS IS TOO EXPENSIVE TO LOWER OUR COSTS AND HAVE PEOPLE NOT DIE!

And you, have fun at the next Len Wiseman movie you go watch just because he is young. yummy.

Your pilfered charts, graphs, and twitter posts aren’t telling me anything I don’t already know about the US healthcare system and those in other parts of the world. What you and Bernie aren’t telling me is anything about Bernie’s health or how he’s going to get his domestic agenda passed by two houses of Congress so he can sign into law all this free stuff. That’s dishonest. Because as soon as a dem is POTUS, deficits will matter again.

Steven is 73? He looks 93.

How it gets passed? It would have to be a wave election. Despite the positive polls Chaos posted ( many other state swing polls are more favorable to trump over sanders) a 2 or 3 % margin will not bring the wave needed to get the attention of Congress. That's a big reason I'm skeptical of Sanders chances.

dankind · February 2020

Lerxst1992 said:

mace1229 said:

CM189191 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I like warren, and it's too bad she's sliding in the polls. she makes the most sense and actually tells you what her plans are and how she'll do it.

friendly reminder that only 5% of the delegates have been declared
there's a long road ahead
as more candidates drop out, those delegates will migrate to the more moderate candidates who remain
(that won't be bernie)

That is exactly what everyone said about Trump 4 years ago. Everyone said "don't worry, as some of the other 15 candidates drop out then their votes will not go to Trump." But that is exactly what happened. I'm guessing it will happen here too. Bernie only needs about 20% of the other voters when they drop to keep the lead, and that isnt much.

The GOP rules are very different than the DNC. Most states award their delegates on a winner take all basis similar to the electoral college. Trump won slot of early states with well under 50%.

Many experts surmise if the 2016 gop nominating contest was played under democratic rules, trump very well might never have become president.

Bernies big chance is California. If he gets a blowout win there he might get into the 40% range of total delegates. Anything less than 40% heading into the DNC and Bernie is done. He is not a democrat nor running on democratic values.

I don't know if I'd say that he's done. He could always run as an independent. I mean, why not if no one else is going to beat Trump anyway?

pjl44 · February 2020

Andrew Yang

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

The Peter G Peterson Foundation is your source @Spiritual_Chaos For the above healthcare spending chart? Do you look into any of the information you post prior to posting it or are you just throwing shit out there? You’re beginning to lose all credibility. Like Bernie.

https://www.latimes.com/business/la-xpm-2012-oct-02-la-fi-hiltzik-20121003-story.html

Starting? I thought I had zero to begin with.

I just posted the first thing making the point off google while waiting on feedback on the closeup of the Gorilla straining her wrist.

dont see how your article disputes anything though.

I guy advocating for the elimination of social security, Medicaid and Medicare pointing out how much healthcare costs in the US is your source to back your argument? Good to know. So when Bernie gets M4A written as legislation, good ol Peter Peterson can spend millions defeating it. Sounds like a great winning strategy. Peter thanks you for the clicks.

Still don’t see how it disputes anything—

— does the US pay roughly double what other major countries with universal health care do or not?

Bernie's M4A won't address this, though. Between his own proposal and studies he cites, he:

- Overestimates the amount of revenue he'll be able to bring in
- Underestimates the utilization increases that come with no patient cost share
- Ignores the downstream consequences of slashing provider payments by 40%
- Ignores the employment impact of the taxes he plans to levy on businesses

It's daunting even when he puts the most optimistic blush on every aspect of the plan. There's a reason it couldn't even be implemented in his home state.

F Me In The Brain · February 2020

Pete Buttigeg

hedonist said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

The Peter G Peterson Foundation is your source @Spiritual_Chaos For the above healthcare spending chart? Do you look into any of the information you post prior to posting it or are you just throwing shit out there? You’re beginning to lose all credibility. Like Bernie.

https://www.latimes.com/business/la-xpm-2012-oct-02-la-fi-hiltzik-20121003-story.html

Starting? I thought I had zero to begin with.

I just posted the first thing making the point off google while waiting on feedback on the closeup of the Gorilla straining her wrist.

dont see how your article disputes anything though.

If it helps, you don't have mine either

Who, dare I ask, is "The Gorilla"?

JimmyV · February 2020

Elisabeth Warren

There is no realistic scenario where Democrats take the nomination away from Bernie at the convention and then unify in sufficient numbers to beat Trump. It would be suicide.

Spiritual_Chaos · February 2020

Bernie Sanders

F Me In The Brain said:

hedonist said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

The Peter G Peterson Foundation is your source @Spiritual_Chaos For the above healthcare spending chart? Do you look into any of the information you post prior to posting it or are you just throwing shit out there? You’re beginning to lose all credibility. Like Bernie.

https://www.latimes.com/business/la-xpm-2012-oct-02-la-fi-hiltzik-20121003-story.html

Starting? I thought I had zero to begin with.

I just posted the first thing making the point off google while waiting on feedback on the closeup of the Gorilla straining her wrist.

dont see how your article disputes anything though.

If it helps, you don't have mine either

Who, dare I ask, is "The Gorilla"?

top 3 ads of all time.

Of all time

CM189191 · February 2020

CM189191 said:

CM189191 said:

benjs said:

CM189191 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

CM189191 said:

mace1229 said:

CM189191 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I like warren, and it's too bad she's sliding in the polls. she makes the most sense and actually tells you what her plans are and how she'll do it.

friendly reminder that only 5% of the delegates have been declared
there's a long road ahead
as more candidates drop out, those delegates will migrate to the more moderate candidates who remain
(that won't be bernie)

That is exactly what everyone said about Trump 4 years ago. Everyone said "don't worry, as some of the other 15 candidates drop out then their votes will not go to Trump." But that is exactly what happened. I'm guessing it will happen here too. Bernie only needs about 20% of the other voters when they drop to keep the lead, and that isnt much.

I agree. The GOP/RNC should have stepped in and prevented that from happening.

Happy to see you advocating for DNC intervention. Remove Bernie as a candidate, the sooner the better.

FUCK DEMOCRACY

AM

I

RITE

The DNC gets to choose who they want to support and promote. It is not a public, democratic body. It is a private organization.

But you knew that.

That may be true, but requiring a majority in the general election to win it, makes it extremely difficult for anything but a duopoly to exist in the USA. Then, if those two parties are (practically speaking) the only avenues to the presidency, and one has to be vetted by the private organizations prior to being nominated, then I'd argue that he's right and it's just not a democratic process. You could argue that this is evidenced by the fact that it's only been one of the two major parties who's ever actually succeeded.

which is why we need ranked choice voting

that aside, has Bernie been vetted?
where are the medical records he promised?

forget non-stop commercials about socialism:
he was a deadbeat dad, no?
his wife was embroiled in scandal, no?
tell me more about his gangrape fantasies

...the list goes on...

Beware the person who chooses their own opponent

that aside, has Bernie been vetted?
where are the medical records he promised?

forget non-stop commercials about socialism:
he was a deadbeat dad, no?
his wife was embroiled in scandal, no?
tell me more about his gangrape fantasies

...crickets...

Spiritual_Chaos · February 2020

Bernie Sanders

CM189191 said:

CM189191 said:

CM189191 said:

benjs said:

CM189191 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

CM189191 said:

mace1229 said:

CM189191 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I like warren, and it's too bad she's sliding in the polls. she makes the most sense and actually tells you what her plans are and how she'll do it.

friendly reminder that only 5% of the delegates have been declared
there's a long road ahead
as more candidates drop out, those delegates will migrate to the more moderate candidates who remain
(that won't be bernie)

That is exactly what everyone said about Trump 4 years ago. Everyone said "don't worry, as some of the other 15 candidates drop out then their votes will not go to Trump." But that is exactly what happened. I'm guessing it will happen here too. Bernie only needs about 20% of the other voters when they drop to keep the lead, and that isnt much.

I agree. The GOP/RNC should have stepped in and prevented that from happening.

Happy to see you advocating for DNC intervention. Remove Bernie as a candidate, the sooner the better.

FUCK DEMOCRACY

AM

I

RITE

The DNC gets to choose who they want to support and promote. It is not a public, democratic body. It is a private organization.

But you knew that.

That may be true, but requiring a majority in the general election to win it, makes it extremely difficult for anything but a duopoly to exist in the USA. Then, if those two parties are (practically speaking) the only avenues to the presidency, and one has to be vetted by the private organizations prior to being nominated, then I'd argue that he's right and it's just not a democratic process. You could argue that this is evidenced by the fact that it's only been one of the two major parties who's ever actually succeeded.

which is why we need ranked choice voting

that aside, has Bernie been vetted?
where are the medical records he promised?

forget non-stop commercials about socialism:
he was a deadbeat dad, no?
his wife was embroiled in scandal, no?
tell me more about his gangrape fantasies

...the list goes on...

Beware the person who chooses their own opponent

that aside, has Bernie been vetted?
where are the medical records he promised?

forget non-stop commercials about socialism:
he was a deadbeat dad, no?
his wife was embroiled in scandal, no?
tell me more about his gangrape fantasies

...crickets...

why hasnt biden been vetted about saying he’s running for the senate?

.... crickets?

mrussel1 · February 2020

Pete Buttigeg

Lerxst1992 said:

mace1229 said:

CM189191 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I like warren, and it's too bad she's sliding in the polls. she makes the most sense and actually tells you what her plans are and how she'll do it.

friendly reminder that only 5% of the delegates have been declared
there's a long road ahead
as more candidates drop out, those delegates will migrate to the more moderate candidates who remain
(that won't be bernie)

That is exactly what everyone said about Trump 4 years ago. Everyone said "don't worry, as some of the other 15 candidates drop out then their votes will not go to Trump." But that is exactly what happened. I'm guessing it will happen here too. Bernie only needs about 20% of the other voters when they drop to keep the lead, and that isnt much.

The GOP rules are very different than the DNC. Most states award their delegates on a winner take all basis similar to the electoral college. Trump won slot of early states with well under 50%.

Many experts surmise if the 2016 gop nominating contest was played under democratic rules, trump very well might never have become president.

Bernies big chance is California. If he gets a blowout win there he might get into the 40% range of total delegates. Anything less than 40% heading into the DNC and Bernie is done. He is not a democrat nor running on democratic values.

Dead on, although I don't know that even 40% of CA and TX will get him to a tipping point. He needs to win with majorities in some states I believe, to make his nomination inevitable. Great point on the 'winner take all' statement. Winning CA at 35% is meaningful in optics for the media, but not necessarily from a delegate or convention perspective.

Ledbetterman10 · February 2020

Joe Biden

The one thing that Sanders has not really been vetted on is his flip on immigration. Prior to 2015, his immigration views were very much in line with the Republicans. He argued for years that mass immigration drives down the wages of American workers. But once Trump got in (and took over) that lane in 2015, Sanders sure changed his tune. Now he's as far left as someone can be on immigration.

Spiritual_Chaos · February 2020

Bernie Sanders

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mace1229 said:

CM189191 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I like warren, and it's too bad she's sliding in the polls. she makes the most sense and actually tells you what her plans are and how she'll do it.

friendly reminder that only 5% of the delegates have been declared
there's a long road ahead
as more candidates drop out, those delegates will migrate to the more moderate candidates who remain
(that won't be bernie)

That is exactly what everyone said about Trump 4 years ago. Everyone said "don't worry, as some of the other 15 candidates drop out then their votes will not go to Trump." But that is exactly what happened. I'm guessing it will happen here too. Bernie only needs about 20% of the other voters when they drop to keep the lead, and that isnt much.

The GOP rules are very different than the DNC. Most states award their delegates on a winner take all basis similar to the electoral college. Trump won slot of early states with well under 50%.

Many experts surmise if the 2016 gop nominating contest was played under democratic rules, trump very well might never have become president.

Bernies big chance is California. If he gets a blowout win there he might get into the 40% range of total delegates. Anything less than 40% heading into the DNC and Bernie is done. He is not a democrat nor running on democratic values.

Dead on, although I don't know that even 40% of CA and TX will get him to a tipping point. He needs to win with majorities in some states I believe, to make his nomination inevitable. Great point on the 'winner take all' statement. Winning CA at 35% is meaningful in optics for the media, but not necessarily from a delegate or convention perspective.

Couldnt he have 16% in CA. if the rest are under 15 he gets it all?

mrussel1 · February 2020

Pete Buttigeg

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mace1229 said:

CM189191 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I like warren, and it's too bad she's sliding in the polls. she makes the most sense and actually tells you what her plans are and how she'll do it.

friendly reminder that only 5% of the delegates have been declared
there's a long road ahead
as more candidates drop out, those delegates will migrate to the more moderate candidates who remain
(that won't be bernie)

That is exactly what everyone said about Trump 4 years ago. Everyone said "don't worry, as some of the other 15 candidates drop out then their votes will not go to Trump." But that is exactly what happened. I'm guessing it will happen here too. Bernie only needs about 20% of the other voters when they drop to keep the lead, and that isnt much.

The GOP rules are very different than the DNC. Most states award their delegates on a winner take all basis similar to the electoral college. Trump won slot of early states with well under 50%.

Many experts surmise if the 2016 gop nominating contest was played under democratic rules, trump very well might never have become president.

Bernies big chance is California. If he gets a blowout win there he might get into the 40% range of total delegates. Anything less than 40% heading into the DNC and Bernie is done. He is not a democrat nor running on democratic values.

Dead on, although I don't know that even 40% of CA and TX will get him to a tipping point. He needs to win with majorities in some states I believe, to make his nomination inevitable. Great point on the 'winner take all' statement. Winning CA at 35% is meaningful in optics for the media, but not necessarily from a delegate or convention perspective.

Couldnt he have 16% in CA. if the rest are under 15 he gets it all?

No, that was Lex's point. The Democrats allocate their delegates proportionately. It is not "winner take all" like the GOP.

mrussel1 · February 2020

Pete Buttigeg

Ledbetterman10 said:

The one thing that Sanders has not really been vetted on is his flip on immigration. Prior to 2015, his immigration views were very much in line with the Republicans. He argued for years that mass immigration drives down the wages of American workers. But once Trump got in (and took over) that lane in 2015, Sanders sure changed his tune. Now he's as far left as someone can be on immigration.

Same with NAFTA, TPP, gun rights, etc. Sanders and Trump occupied some similar lanes.

Spiritual_Chaos · February 2020

Bernie Sanders

mrussel1 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mace1229 said:

CM189191 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I like warren, and it's too bad she's sliding in the polls. she makes the most sense and actually tells you what her plans are and how she'll do it.

friendly reminder that only 5% of the delegates have been declared
there's a long road ahead
as more candidates drop out, those delegates will migrate to the more moderate candidates who remain
(that won't be bernie)

That is exactly what everyone said about Trump 4 years ago. Everyone said "don't worry, as some of the other 15 candidates drop out then their votes will not go to Trump." But that is exactly what happened. I'm guessing it will happen here too. Bernie only needs about 20% of the other voters when they drop to keep the lead, and that isnt much.

The GOP rules are very different than the DNC. Most states award their delegates on a winner take all basis similar to the electoral college. Trump won slot of early states with well under 50%.

Many experts surmise if the 2016 gop nominating contest was played under democratic rules, trump very well might never have become president.

Bernies big chance is California. If he gets a blowout win there he might get into the 40% range of total delegates. Anything less than 40% heading into the DNC and Bernie is done. He is not a democrat nor running on democratic values.

Dead on, although I don't know that even 40% of CA and TX will get him to a tipping point. He needs to win with majorities in some states I believe, to make his nomination inevitable. Great point on the 'winner take all' statement. Winning CA at 35% is meaningful in optics for the media, but not necessarily from a delegate or convention perspective.

Couldnt he have 16% in CA. if the rest are under 15 he gets it all?

No, that was Lex's point. The Democrats allocate their delegates proportionately. It is not "winner take all" like the GOP.

But you still need to reach the 15 % threshold? So what happens if Bernie is the only one over 15%. He still gets delagates depending on his percentage and the rest are burned?

Ledbetterman10 · February 2020

Joe Biden

mrussel1 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mace1229 said:

CM189191 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I like warren, and it's too bad she's sliding in the polls. she makes the most sense and actually tells you what her plans are and how she'll do it.

friendly reminder that only 5% of the delegates have been declared
there's a long road ahead
as more candidates drop out, those delegates will migrate to the more moderate candidates who remain
(that won't be bernie)

That is exactly what everyone said about Trump 4 years ago. Everyone said "don't worry, as some of the other 15 candidates drop out then their votes will not go to Trump." But that is exactly what happened. I'm guessing it will happen here too. Bernie only needs about 20% of the other voters when they drop to keep the lead, and that isnt much.

The GOP rules are very different than the DNC. Most states award their delegates on a winner take all basis similar to the electoral college. Trump won slot of early states with well under 50%.

Many experts surmise if the 2016 gop nominating contest was played under democratic rules, trump very well might never have become president.

Bernies big chance is California. If he gets a blowout win there he might get into the 40% range of total delegates. Anything less than 40% heading into the DNC and Bernie is done. He is not a democrat nor running on democratic values.

Dead on, although I don't know that even 40% of CA and TX will get him to a tipping point. He needs to win with majorities in some states I believe, to make his nomination inevitable. Great point on the 'winner take all' statement. Winning CA at 35% is meaningful in optics for the media, but not necessarily from a delegate or convention perspective.

Couldnt he have 16% in CA. if the rest are under 15 he gets it all?

No, that was Lex's point. The Democrats allocate their delegates proportionately. It is not "winner take all" like the GOP.

I've always contended (though most people disagree with me) that this is how the electoral college should work in the general election. I'm not for abolishing it like many people are, but some tweaks would work well. Like in 2016, Trump beat Hillary in Pennsylvania 48.1% to 47.4%. Why the heck should Trump get all of PA's electoral votes for that?

If you allocated electors by congressional district (or something), you'd give candidates a reason to campaign in non-swing states. Sure Trump can't win California as a whole, but maybe there are a few places where he could get some electoral votes. Same with Hillary in a place like Texas. Or New York. Sure the Democrat is going to win NYC, and thus the state, but I'd like if the other candidate could maybe pick up some electors in upstate New York. Upstate New York and NYC couldn't be more different.

Just a way to make everyone's vote count without having to go to a full-on popular vote.

mrussel1 · February 2020

Pete Buttigeg

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mrussel1 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mace1229 said:

CM189191 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I like warren, and it's too bad she's sliding in the polls. she makes the most sense and actually tells you what her plans are and how she'll do it.

friendly reminder that only 5% of the delegates have been declared
there's a long road ahead
as more candidates drop out, those delegates will migrate to the more moderate candidates who remain
(that won't be bernie)

That is exactly what everyone said about Trump 4 years ago. Everyone said "don't worry, as some of the other 15 candidates drop out then their votes will not go to Trump." But that is exactly what happened. I'm guessing it will happen here too. Bernie only needs about 20% of the other voters when they drop to keep the lead, and that isnt much.

The GOP rules are very different than the DNC. Most states award their delegates on a winner take all basis similar to the electoral college. Trump won slot of early states with well under 50%.

Many experts surmise if the 2016 gop nominating contest was played under democratic rules, trump very well might never have become president.

Bernies big chance is California. If he gets a blowout win there he might get into the 40% range of total delegates. Anything less than 40% heading into the DNC and Bernie is done. He is not a democrat nor running on democratic values.

Dead on, although I don't know that even 40% of CA and TX will get him to a tipping point. He needs to win with majorities in some states I believe, to make his nomination inevitable. Great point on the 'winner take all' statement. Winning CA at 35% is meaningful in optics for the media, but not necessarily from a delegate or convention perspective.

Couldnt he have 16% in CA. if the rest are under 15 he gets it all?

No, that was Lex's point. The Democrats allocate their delegates proportionately. It is not "winner take all" like the GOP.

But you still need to reach the 15 % threshold? So what happens if Bernie is the only one over 15%. He still gets delagates depending on his percentage and the rest are burned?

It's 15% at the congressional OR state level. I don't know how many people are actually on the ballot, but I suppose if it's 7 or more, then theoretically your scenario is possible. But the probability is quite low that Sanders would be the only person to break 15% at either state or district level.

pjl44 · February 2020

Andrew Yang

Ledbetterman10 said:

mrussel1 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mace1229 said:

CM189191 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I like warren, and it's too bad she's sliding in the polls. she makes the most sense and actually tells you what her plans are and how she'll do it.

friendly reminder that only 5% of the delegates have been declared
there's a long road ahead
as more candidates drop out, those delegates will migrate to the more moderate candidates who remain
(that won't be bernie)

That is exactly what everyone said about Trump 4 years ago. Everyone said "don't worry, as some of the other 15 candidates drop out then their votes will not go to Trump." But that is exactly what happened. I'm guessing it will happen here too. Bernie only needs about 20% of the other voters when they drop to keep the lead, and that isnt much.

The GOP rules are very different than the DNC. Most states award their delegates on a winner take all basis similar to the electoral college. Trump won slot of early states with well under 50%.

Many experts surmise if the 2016 gop nominating contest was played under democratic rules, trump very well might never have become president.

Bernies big chance is California. If he gets a blowout win there he might get into the 40% range of total delegates. Anything less than 40% heading into the DNC and Bernie is done. He is not a democrat nor running on democratic values.

Dead on, although I don't know that even 40% of CA and TX will get him to a tipping point. He needs to win with majorities in some states I believe, to make his nomination inevitable. Great point on the 'winner take all' statement. Winning CA at 35% is meaningful in optics for the media, but not necessarily from a delegate or convention perspective.

Couldnt he have 16% in CA. if the rest are under 15 he gets it all?

No, that was Lex's point. The Democrats allocate their delegates proportionately. It is not "winner take all" like the GOP.

I've always contended (though most people disagree with me) that this is how the electoral college should work in the general election. I'm not for abolishing it like many people are, but some tweaks would work well. Like in 2016, Trump beat Hillary in Pennsylvania 48.1% to 47.4%. Why the heck should Trump get all of PA's electoral votes for that?

If you allocated electors by congressional district (or something), you'd give candidates a reason to campaign in non-swing states. Sure Trump can't win California as a whole, but maybe there are a few places where he could get some electoral votes. Same with Hillary in a place like Texas. Or New York. Sure the Democrat is going to win NYC, and thus the state, but I'd like if the other candidate could maybe pick up some electors in upstate New York. Upstate New York and NYC couldn't be more different.

Just a way to make everyone's vote count without having to go to a full-on popular vote.

A lot of great points. I might not ultimately agree with you, but it's definitely a sound argument. Maintaining the voice of each state while recognizing 51-49 and 70-30 should yield different rewards.

Ledbetterman10 · February 2020

Joe Biden

pjl44 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

mrussel1 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mace1229 said:

CM189191 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I like warren, and it's too bad she's sliding in the polls. she makes the most sense and actually tells you what her plans are and how she'll do it.

friendly reminder that only 5% of the delegates have been declared
there's a long road ahead
as more candidates drop out, those delegates will migrate to the more moderate candidates who remain
(that won't be bernie)

That is exactly what everyone said about Trump 4 years ago. Everyone said "don't worry, as some of the other 15 candidates drop out then their votes will not go to Trump." But that is exactly what happened. I'm guessing it will happen here too. Bernie only needs about 20% of the other voters when they drop to keep the lead, and that isnt much.

The GOP rules are very different than the DNC. Most states award their delegates on a winner take all basis similar to the electoral college. Trump won slot of early states with well under 50%.

Many experts surmise if the 2016 gop nominating contest was played under democratic rules, trump very well might never have become president.

Bernies big chance is California. If he gets a blowout win there he might get into the 40% range of total delegates. Anything less than 40% heading into the DNC and Bernie is done. He is not a democrat nor running on democratic values.

Dead on, although I don't know that even 40% of CA and TX will get him to a tipping point. He needs to win with majorities in some states I believe, to make his nomination inevitable. Great point on the 'winner take all' statement. Winning CA at 35% is meaningful in optics for the media, but not necessarily from a delegate or convention perspective.

Couldnt he have 16% in CA. if the rest are under 15 he gets it all?

No, that was Lex's point. The Democrats allocate their delegates proportionately. It is not "winner take all" like the GOP.

I've always contended (though most people disagree with me) that this is how the electoral college should work in the general election. I'm not for abolishing it like many people are, but some tweaks would work well. Like in 2016, Trump beat Hillary in Pennsylvania 48.1% to 47.4%. Why the heck should Trump get all of PA's electoral votes for that?

If you allocated electors by congressional district (or something), you'd give candidates a reason to campaign in non-swing states. Sure Trump can't win California as a whole, but maybe there are a few places where he could get some electoral votes. Same with Hillary in a place like Texas. Or New York. Sure the Democrat is going to win NYC, and thus the state, but I'd like if the other candidate could maybe pick up some electors in upstate New York. Upstate New York and NYC couldn't be more different.

Just a way to make everyone's vote count without having to go to a full-on popular vote.

A lot of great points. I might not ultimately agree with you, but it's definitely a sound argument. Maintaining the voice of each state while recognizing 51-49 and 70-30 should yield different rewards.

Yeah they'll never change it because the almighty Founding Fathers didn't lay it out that way. But I'd just like for the entire country to be a part of the process. Trump is doing a townhall in Scranton, PA next week. That will be the first of at least ten times he visits that area this year. The democratic nominee will do the same thing. Yet neither will visit Los Angeles or New York, the two-most populated cities in the country. A dozen visits to Scranton, and none to Los Angeles, New York, or Houston. That makes no sense.

Nothing against Scranton, I have roots there. But it's mind-numbing to think that Scranton is more important to a presidential candidate than much larger cities in non-swing states.

Lerxst1992 · February 2020

Joe Biden

dankind said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mace1229 said:

CM189191 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I like warren, and it's too bad she's sliding in the polls. she makes the most sense and actually tells you what her plans are and how she'll do it.

friendly reminder that only 5% of the delegates have been declared
there's a long road ahead
as more candidates drop out, those delegates will migrate to the more moderate candidates who remain
(that won't be bernie)

That is exactly what everyone said about Trump 4 years ago. Everyone said "don't worry, as some of the other 15 candidates drop out then their votes will not go to Trump." But that is exactly what happened. I'm guessing it will happen here too. Bernie only needs about 20% of the other voters when they drop to keep the lead, and that isnt much.

The GOP rules are very different than the DNC. Most states award their delegates on a winner take all basis similar to the electoral college. Trump won slot of early states with well under 50%.

Many experts surmise if the 2016 gop nominating contest was played under democratic rules, trump very well might never have become president.

Bernies big chance is California. If he gets a blowout win there he might get into the 40% range of total delegates. Anything less than 40% heading into the DNC and Bernie is done. He is not a democrat nor running on democratic values.

I don't know if I'd say that he's done. He could always run as an independent. I mean, why not if no one else is going to beat Trump anyway?

I meant as a democrat in the 2020 campaign.

I'd give a revitalized Biden (revitalized if he comes from behind) over 40% to beat trump. If Bernie ran as 3rd choice that drops to near zero.

I forgot who posted the article that suggested all the candidates be disclosed as where they'd line up in a democratic Cabinet. That's a great idea. Tge party needs to come together.

If Bernie ends up with a large lead and it's clear the moderates didnt get more votes AND Bernie is willing to soften his socialist views, I fully support him getting the nomination

Lerxst1992 · February 2020

Joe Biden

Ledbetterman10 said:

pjl44 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

mrussel1 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mace1229 said:

CM189191 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I like warren, and it's too bad she's sliding in the polls. she makes the most sense and actually tells you what her plans are and how she'll do it.

friendly reminder that only 5% of the delegates have been declared
there's a long road ahead
as more candidates drop out, those delegates will migrate to the more moderate candidates who remain
(that won't be bernie)

That is exactly what everyone said about Trump 4 years ago. Everyone said "don't worry, as some of the other 15 candidates drop out then their votes will not go to Trump." But that is exactly what happened. I'm guessing it will happen here too. Bernie only needs about 20% of the other voters when they drop to keep the lead, and that isnt much.

The GOP rules are very different than the DNC. Most states award their delegates on a winner take all basis similar to the electoral college. Trump won slot of early states with well under 50%.

Many experts surmise if the 2016 gop nominating contest was played under democratic rules, trump very well might never have become president.

Bernies big chance is California. If he gets a blowout win there he might get into the 40% range of total delegates. Anything less than 40% heading into the DNC and Bernie is done. He is not a democrat nor running on democratic values.

Dead on, although I don't know that even 40% of CA and TX will get him to a tipping point. He needs to win with majorities in some states I believe, to make his nomination inevitable. Great point on the 'winner take all' statement. Winning CA at 35% is meaningful in optics for the media, but not necessarily from a delegate or convention perspective.

Couldnt he have 16% in CA. if the rest are under 15 he gets it all?

No, that was Lex's point. The Democrats allocate their delegates proportionately. It is not "winner take all" like the GOP.

I've always contended (though most people disagree with me) that this is how the electoral college should work in the general election. I'm not for abolishing it like many people are, but some tweaks would work well. Like in 2016, Trump beat Hillary in Pennsylvania 48.1% to 47.4%. Why the heck should Trump get all of PA's electoral votes for that?

If you allocated electors by congressional district (or something), you'd give candidates a reason to campaign in non-swing states. Sure Trump can't win California as a whole, but maybe there are a few places where he could get some electoral votes. Same with Hillary in a place like Texas. Or New York. Sure the Democrat is going to win NYC, and thus the state, but I'd like if the other candidate could maybe pick up some electors in upstate New York. Upstate New York and NYC couldn't be more different.

Just a way to make everyone's vote count without having to go to a full-on popular vote.

A lot of great points. I might not ultimately agree with you, but it's definitely a sound argument. Maintaining the voice of each state while recognizing 51-49 and 70-30 should yield different rewards.

Yeah they'll never change it because the almighty Founding Fathers didn't lay it out that way. But I'd just like for the entire country to be a part of the process. Trump is doing a townhall in Scranton, PA next week. That will be the first of at least ten times he visits that area this year. The democratic nominee will do the same thing. Yet neither will visit Los Angeles or New York, the two-most populated cities in the country. A dozen visits to Scranton, and none to Los Angeles, New York, or Houston. That makes no sense.

Nothing against Scranton, I have roots there. But it's mind-numbing to think that Scranton is more important to a presidential candidate than much larger cities in non-swing states.

I think m russ was echoing my point that the GOP primaries are winner take all like the electoral college.

I'm fairly certain that only the electoral college is in the constitution, not the winner take all allocation of electors. I'm fairly certain there was a movement or lawsuit to fight the winner take all format as unconstitutional because it takes away votes from a block of voters. Fat chance that will ever be opined on by the USSC.

Who is your choice in the Democratic Presidential Primary?

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