Who is your choice in the Democratic Presidential Primary?

mrussel1

Pete Buttigeg

Lerxst1992 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

pjl44 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

mrussel1 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mace1229 said:

CM189191 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I like warren, and it's too bad she's sliding in the polls. she makes the most sense and actually tells you what her plans are and how she'll do it. 

friendly reminder that only 5% of the delegates have been declared
there's a long road ahead
as more candidates drop out, those delegates will migrate to the more moderate candidates who remain
(that won't be bernie)

That is exactly what everyone said about Trump 4 years ago. Everyone said "don't worry, as some of the other 15 candidates drop out then their votes will not go to Trump." But that is exactly what happened. I'm guessing it will happen here too. Bernie only needs about 20% of the other voters when they drop to keep the lead, and that isnt much.

The GOP rules are very different than the DNC. Most states award their delegates on a winner take all basis similar to the electoral college. Trump won slot of early states with well under 50%.

Many experts surmise if the 2016 gop nominating contest was played under democratic rules, trump very well might never have become president.

Bernies big chance is California.  If he gets a blowout win there he might get into the 40% range of total delegates.  Anything less than 40% heading into the DNC and Bernie is done. He is not a democrat nor running on democratic values.

Dead on, although I don't know that even 40% of CA and TX will get him to a tipping point.  He needs to win with majorities in some states I believe, to make his nomination inevitable.  Great point on the 'winner take all' statement.  Winning CA at 35% is meaningful in optics for the media, but not necessarily from a delegate or convention perspective. 

Couldnt he have 16% in CA. if the rest are under 15 he gets it all?

No, that was Lex's point.  The Democrats allocate their delegates proportionately.  It is not "winner take all" like the GOP.  

I've always contended (though most people disagree with me) that this is how the electoral college should work in the general election. I'm not for abolishing it like many people are, but some tweaks would work well. Like in 2016, Trump beat Hillary in Pennsylvania 48.1% to 47.4%. Why the heck should Trump get all of PA's electoral votes for that? 

If you allocated electors by congressional district (or something), you'd give candidates a reason to campaign in non-swing states. Sure Trump can't win California as a whole, but maybe there are a few places where he could get some electoral votes. Same with Hillary in a place like Texas. Or New York. Sure the Democrat is going to win NYC, and thus the state, but I'd like if the other candidate could maybe pick up some electors in upstate New York. Upstate New York and NYC couldn't be more different. 

Just a way to make everyone's vote count without having to go to a full-on popular vote. 

A lot of great points. I might not ultimately agree with you, but it's definitely a sound argument. Maintaining the voice of each state while recognizing 51-49 and 70-30 should yield different rewards.

Yeah they'll never change it because the almighty Founding Fathers didn't lay it out that way. But I'd just like for the entire country to be a part of the process. Trump is doing a townhall in Scranton, PA next week. That will be the first of at least ten times he visits that area this year. The democratic nominee will do the same thing. Yet neither will visit Los Angeles or New York, the two-most populated cities in the country.  A dozen visits to Scranton, and none to Los Angeles, New York, or Houston. That makes no sense. 

Nothing against Scranton, I have roots there. But it's mind-numbing to think that Scranton is more important to a presidential candidate than much larger cities in non-swing states. 

I think m russ was echoing my point that the GOP primaries are winner take all like the electoral college.

I'm fairly certain that only the electoral college is in the constitution, not the winner take all allocation of electors. I'm fairly certain there was a movement or lawsuit to fight the winner take all format as unconstitutional because it takes away votes from a block of voters. Fat chance that will ever be opined on by the USSC.

Maine already splits the EC votes.  I think NE may as well.  There's nothing in the Constitution to prohibit it. 

CM189191

Spiritual_Chaos said:

CM189191 said:

CM189191 said:

CM189191 said:

benjs said:

CM189191 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

CM189191 said:

mace1229 said:

CM189191 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I like warren, and it's too bad she's sliding in the polls. she makes the most sense and actually tells you what her plans are and how she'll do it. 

friendly reminder that only 5% of the delegates have been declared
there's a long road ahead
as more candidates drop out, those delegates will migrate to the more moderate candidates who remain
(that won't be bernie)

That is exactly what everyone said about Trump 4 years ago. Everyone said "don't worry, as some of the other 15 candidates drop out then their votes will not go to Trump." But that is exactly what happened. I'm guessing it will happen here too. Bernie only needs about 20% of the other voters when they drop to keep the lead, and that isnt much.

I agree.  The GOP/RNC should have stepped in and prevented that from happening.

Happy to see you advocating for DNC intervention.  Remove Bernie as a candidate, the sooner the better. 

FUCK DEMOCRACY

AM 

I 

RITE

The DNC gets to choose who they want to support and promote.  It is not a public, democratic body.  It is a private organization.  

But you knew that.

That may be true, but requiring a majority in the general election to win it, makes it extremely difficult for anything but a duopoly to exist in the USA. Then, if those two parties are (practically speaking) the only avenues to the presidency, and one has to be vetted by the private organizations prior to being nominated, then I'd argue that he's right and it's just not a democratic process. You could argue that this is evidenced by the fact that it's only been one of the two major parties who's ever actually succeeded.

which is why we need ranked choice voting

that aside, has Bernie been vetted?
where are the medical records he promised?

forget non-stop commercials about socialism:
he was a deadbeat dad, no?
his wife was embroiled in scandal, no?
tell me more about his gangrape fantasies

...the list goes on...

Beware the person who chooses their own opponent

that aside, has Bernie been vetted?

where are the medical records he promised?

forget non-stop commercials about socialism:

he was a deadbeat dad, no?

his wife was embroiled in scandal, no?

tell me more about his gangrape fantasies

...crickets...

why hasnt biden been vetted about saying he’s running for the senate?

.... crickets?

distract deflect divide

where are Bernie's medical records?

he was a deadbeat dad, no?

his wife was embroiled in scandal, no?

tell me more about his gangrape fantasies

Spiritual_Chaos

Bernie Sanders

CM189191 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

CM189191 said:

CM189191 said:

CM189191 said:

benjs said:

CM189191 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

CM189191 said:

mace1229 said:

CM189191 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I like warren, and it's too bad she's sliding in the polls. she makes the most sense and actually tells you what her plans are and how she'll do it. 

friendly reminder that only 5% of the delegates have been declared
there's a long road ahead
as more candidates drop out, those delegates will migrate to the more moderate candidates who remain
(that won't be bernie)

That is exactly what everyone said about Trump 4 years ago. Everyone said "don't worry, as some of the other 15 candidates drop out then their votes will not go to Trump." But that is exactly what happened. I'm guessing it will happen here too. Bernie only needs about 20% of the other voters when they drop to keep the lead, and that isnt much.

I agree.  The GOP/RNC should have stepped in and prevented that from happening.

Happy to see you advocating for DNC intervention.  Remove Bernie as a candidate, the sooner the better. 

FUCK DEMOCRACY

AM 

I 

RITE

The DNC gets to choose who they want to support and promote.  It is not a public, democratic body.  It is a private organization.  

But you knew that.

That may be true, but requiring a majority in the general election to win it, makes it extremely difficult for anything but a duopoly to exist in the USA. Then, if those two parties are (practically speaking) the only avenues to the presidency, and one has to be vetted by the private organizations prior to being nominated, then I'd argue that he's right and it's just not a democratic process. You could argue that this is evidenced by the fact that it's only been one of the two major parties who's ever actually succeeded.

which is why we need ranked choice voting

that aside, has Bernie been vetted?
where are the medical records he promised?

forget non-stop commercials about socialism:
he was a deadbeat dad, no?
his wife was embroiled in scandal, no?
tell me more about his gangrape fantasies

...the list goes on...

Beware the person who chooses their own opponent

that aside, has Bernie been vetted?

where are the medical records he promised?

forget non-stop commercials about socialism:

he was a deadbeat dad, no?

his wife was embroiled in scandal, no?

tell me more about his gangrape fantasies

...crickets...

why hasnt biden been vetted about saying he’s running for the senate?

.... crickets?

distract deflect divide

where are Bernie's medical records?

he was a deadbeat dad, no?

his wife was embroiled in scandal, no?

tell me more about his gangrape fantasies

I’ll give you a dose of reality instead:

HughFreakingDillon

Elisabeth Warren

If that's your reality I'd like to see your fantasy. 

Ledbetterman10

Joe Biden

mrussel1 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

The one thing that Sanders has not really been vetted on is his flip on immigration. Prior to 2015, his immigration views were very much in line with the Republicans. He argued for years that mass immigration drives down the wages of American workers. But once Trump got in (and took over) that lane in 2015, Sanders sure changed his tune. Now he's as far left as someone can be on immigration. 

Same with NAFTA, TPP, gun rights, etc.  Sanders and Trump occupied some similar lanes.  

And I don't necessarily have a problem with that. I myself have flipped on many issues over the years. So I don't mind that Warren and Bloomberg are former Republicans, or that Trump's a former Democrat. But there's a narrative that Bernie has been consistent on his stances for the past 30-40 years, and that's simply untrue. 

Halifax2TheMax

CM189191 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

CM189191 said:

CM189191 said:

CM189191 said:

benjs said:

CM189191 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

CM189191 said:

mace1229 said:

CM189191 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I like warren, and it's too bad she's sliding in the polls. she makes the most sense and actually tells you what her plans are and how she'll do it. 

friendly reminder that only 5% of the delegates have been declared
there's a long road ahead
as more candidates drop out, those delegates will migrate to the more moderate candidates who remain
(that won't be bernie)

That is exactly what everyone said about Trump 4 years ago. Everyone said "don't worry, as some of the other 15 candidates drop out then their votes will not go to Trump." But that is exactly what happened. I'm guessing it will happen here too. Bernie only needs about 20% of the other voters when they drop to keep the lead, and that isnt much.

I agree.  The GOP/RNC should have stepped in and prevented that from happening.

Happy to see you advocating for DNC intervention.  Remove Bernie as a candidate, the sooner the better. 

FUCK DEMOCRACY

AM 

I 

RITE

The DNC gets to choose who they want to support and promote.  It is not a public, democratic body.  It is a private organization.  

But you knew that.

That may be true, but requiring a majority in the general election to win it, makes it extremely difficult for anything but a duopoly to exist in the USA. Then, if those two parties are (practically speaking) the only avenues to the presidency, and one has to be vetted by the private organizations prior to being nominated, then I'd argue that he's right and it's just not a democratic process. You could argue that this is evidenced by the fact that it's only been one of the two major parties who's ever actually succeeded.

which is why we need ranked choice voting

that aside, has Bernie been vetted?
where are the medical records he promised?

forget non-stop commercials about socialism:
he was a deadbeat dad, no?
his wife was embroiled in scandal, no?
tell me more about his gangrape fantasies

...the list goes on...

Beware the person who chooses their own opponent

that aside, has Bernie been vetted?

where are the medical records he promised?

forget non-stop commercials about socialism:

he was a deadbeat dad, no?

his wife was embroiled in scandal, no?

tell me more about his gangrape fantasies

...crickets...

why hasnt biden been vetted about saying he’s running for the senate?

.... crickets?

distract deflect divide

where are Bernie's medical records?

he was a deadbeat dad, no?

his wife was embroiled in scandal, no?

tell me more about his gangrape fantasies

Verging on 3D territory.

CM189191

Spiritual_Chaos said:

CM189191 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

CM189191 said:

CM189191 said:

CM189191 said:

benjs said:

CM189191 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

CM189191 said:

mace1229 said:

CM189191 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I like warren, and it's too bad she's sliding in the polls. she makes the most sense and actually tells you what her plans are and how she'll do it. 

friendly reminder that only 5% of the delegates have been declared
there's a long road ahead
as more candidates drop out, those delegates will migrate to the more moderate candidates who remain
(that won't be bernie)

That is exactly what everyone said about Trump 4 years ago. Everyone said "don't worry, as some of the other 15 candidates drop out then their votes will not go to Trump." But that is exactly what happened. I'm guessing it will happen here too. Bernie only needs about 20% of the other voters when they drop to keep the lead, and that isnt much.

I agree.  The GOP/RNC should have stepped in and prevented that from happening.

Happy to see you advocating for DNC intervention.  Remove Bernie as a candidate, the sooner the better. 

FUCK DEMOCRACY

AM 

I 

RITE

The DNC gets to choose who they want to support and promote.  It is not a public, democratic body.  It is a private organization.  

But you knew that.

That may be true, but requiring a majority in the general election to win it, makes it extremely difficult for anything but a duopoly to exist in the USA. Then, if those two parties are (practically speaking) the only avenues to the presidency, and one has to be vetted by the private organizations prior to being nominated, then I'd argue that he's right and it's just not a democratic process. You could argue that this is evidenced by the fact that it's only been one of the two major parties who's ever actually succeeded.

which is why we need ranked choice voting

that aside, has Bernie been vetted?
where are the medical records he promised?

forget non-stop commercials about socialism:
he was a deadbeat dad, no?
his wife was embroiled in scandal, no?
tell me more about his gangrape fantasies

...the list goes on...

Beware the person who chooses their own opponent

that aside, has Bernie been vetted?

where are the medical records he promised?

forget non-stop commercials about socialism:

he was a deadbeat dad, no?

his wife was embroiled in scandal, no?

tell me more about his gangrape fantasies

...crickets...

why hasnt biden been vetted about saying he’s running for the senate?

.... crickets?

distract deflect divide

where are Bernie's medical records?

he was a deadbeat dad, no?

his wife was embroiled in scandal, no?

tell me more about his gangrape fantasies

I’ll give you a dose of reality instead:

this is not a bookmark

Lerxst1992

Joe Biden

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

pjl44 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

mrussel1 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mace1229 said:

CM189191 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I like warren, and it's too bad she's sliding in the polls. she makes the most sense and actually tells you what her plans are and how she'll do it. 

friendly reminder that only 5% of the delegates have been declared
there's a long road ahead
as more candidates drop out, those delegates will migrate to the more moderate candidates who remain
(that won't be bernie)

That is exactly what everyone said about Trump 4 years ago. Everyone said "don't worry, as some of the other 15 candidates drop out then their votes will not go to Trump." But that is exactly what happened. I'm guessing it will happen here too. Bernie only needs about 20% of the other voters when they drop to keep the lead, and that isnt much.

The GOP rules are very different than the DNC. Most states award their delegates on a winner take all basis similar to the electoral college. Trump won slot of early states with well under 50%.

Many experts surmise if the 2016 gop nominating contest was played under democratic rules, trump very well might never have become president.

Bernies big chance is California.  If he gets a blowout win there he might get into the 40% range of total delegates.  Anything less than 40% heading into the DNC and Bernie is done. He is not a democrat nor running on democratic values.

Dead on, although I don't know that even 40% of CA and TX will get him to a tipping point.  He needs to win with majorities in some states I believe, to make his nomination inevitable.  Great point on the 'winner take all' statement.  Winning CA at 35% is meaningful in optics for the media, but not necessarily from a delegate or convention perspective. 

Couldnt he have 16% in CA. if the rest are under 15 he gets it all?

No, that was Lex's point.  The Democrats allocate their delegates proportionately.  It is not "winner take all" like the GOP.  

I've always contended (though most people disagree with me) that this is how the electoral college should work in the general election. I'm not for abolishing it like many people are, but some tweaks would work well. Like in 2016, Trump beat Hillary in Pennsylvania 48.1% to 47.4%. Why the heck should Trump get all of PA's electoral votes for that? 

If you allocated electors by congressional district (or something), you'd give candidates a reason to campaign in non-swing states. Sure Trump can't win California as a whole, but maybe there are a few places where he could get some electoral votes. Same with Hillary in a place like Texas. Or New York. Sure the Democrat is going to win NYC, and thus the state, but I'd like if the other candidate could maybe pick up some electors in upstate New York. Upstate New York and NYC couldn't be more different. 

Just a way to make everyone's vote count without having to go to a full-on popular vote. 

A lot of great points. I might not ultimately agree with you, but it's definitely a sound argument. Maintaining the voice of each state while recognizing 51-49 and 70-30 should yield different rewards.

Yeah they'll never change it because the almighty Founding Fathers didn't lay it out that way. But I'd just like for the entire country to be a part of the process. Trump is doing a townhall in Scranton, PA next week. That will be the first of at least ten times he visits that area this year. The democratic nominee will do the same thing. Yet neither will visit Los Angeles or New York, the two-most populated cities in the country.  A dozen visits to Scranton, and none to Los Angeles, New York, or Houston. That makes no sense. 

Nothing against Scranton, I have roots there. But it's mind-numbing to think that Scranton is more important to a presidential candidate than much larger cities in non-swing states. 

I think m russ was echoing my point that the GOP primaries are winner take all like the electoral college.

I'm fairly certain that only the electoral college is in the constitution, not the winner take all allocation of electors. I'm fairly certain there was a movement or lawsuit to fight the winner take all format as unconstitutional because it takes away votes from a block of voters. Fat chance that will ever be opined on by the USSC.

Maine already splits the EC votes.  I think NE may as well.  There's nothing in the Constitution to prohibit it. 

I think I'm talking about the opposite, that Winner take all is taking votes away from the minority within each state. That's what could be unconstitutional.  Not the EC itself but how the votes are allocated in 48 states.

The  constitution directs us to follow the electoral college. As your point demonstrates, not winner take all.

Lerxst1992

Joe Biden

Spiritual_Chaos said:

CM189191 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

CM189191 said:

CM189191 said:

CM189191 said:

benjs said:

CM189191 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

CM189191 said:

mace1229 said:

CM189191 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I like warren, and it's too bad she's sliding in the polls. she makes the most sense and actually tells you what her plans are and how she'll do it. 

friendly reminder that only 5% of the delegates have been declared
there's a long road ahead
as more candidates drop out, those delegates will migrate to the more moderate candidates who remain
(that won't be bernie)

That is exactly what everyone said about Trump 4 years ago. Everyone said "don't worry, as some of the other 15 candidates drop out then their votes will not go to Trump." But that is exactly what happened. I'm guessing it will happen here too. Bernie only needs about 20% of the other voters when they drop to keep the lead, and that isnt much.

I agree.  The GOP/RNC should have stepped in and prevented that from happening.

Happy to see you advocating for DNC intervention.  Remove Bernie as a candidate, the sooner the better. 

FUCK DEMOCRACY

AM 

I 

RITE

The DNC gets to choose who they want to support and promote.  It is not a public, democratic body.  It is a private organization.  

But you knew that.

That may be true, but requiring a majority in the general election to win it, makes it extremely difficult for anything but a duopoly to exist in the USA. Then, if those two parties are (practically speaking) the only avenues to the presidency, and one has to be vetted by the private organizations prior to being nominated, then I'd argue that he's right and it's just not a democratic process. You could argue that this is evidenced by the fact that it's only been one of the two major parties who's ever actually succeeded.

which is why we need ranked choice voting

that aside, has Bernie been vetted?
where are the medical records he promised?

forget non-stop commercials about socialism:
he was a deadbeat dad, no?
his wife was embroiled in scandal, no?
tell me more about his gangrape fantasies

...the list goes on...

Beware the person who chooses their own opponent

that aside, has Bernie been vetted?

where are the medical records he promised?

forget non-stop commercials about socialism:

he was a deadbeat dad, no?

his wife was embroiled in scandal, no?

tell me more about his gangrape fantasies

...crickets...

why hasnt biden been vetted about saying he’s running for the senate?

.... crickets?

distract deflect divide

where are Bernie's medical records?

he was a deadbeat dad, no?

his wife was embroiled in scandal, no?

tell me more about his gangrape fantasies

I’ll give you a dose of reality instead:

http://youtu.be/Z5c06iiukF4

mace1229

O my gosh I forgot about the gorilla drummer! Was that real? It looks real.

benjs

Mike Bloomberg

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

pjl44 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

mrussel1 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mace1229 said:

CM189191 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I like warren, and it's too bad she's sliding in the polls. she makes the most sense and actually tells you what her plans are and how she'll do it. 

friendly reminder that only 5% of the delegates have been declared
there's a long road ahead
as more candidates drop out, those delegates will migrate to the more moderate candidates who remain
(that won't be bernie)

That is exactly what everyone said about Trump 4 years ago. Everyone said "don't worry, as some of the other 15 candidates drop out then their votes will not go to Trump." But that is exactly what happened. I'm guessing it will happen here too. Bernie only needs about 20% of the other voters when they drop to keep the lead, and that isnt much.

The GOP rules are very different than the DNC. Most states award their delegates on a winner take all basis similar to the electoral college. Trump won slot of early states with well under 50%.

Many experts surmise if the 2016 gop nominating contest was played under democratic rules, trump very well might never have become president.

Bernies big chance is California.  If he gets a blowout win there he might get into the 40% range of total delegates.  Anything less than 40% heading into the DNC and Bernie is done. He is not a democrat nor running on democratic values.

Dead on, although I don't know that even 40% of CA and TX will get him to a tipping point.  He needs to win with majorities in some states I believe, to make his nomination inevitable.  Great point on the 'winner take all' statement.  Winning CA at 35% is meaningful in optics for the media, but not necessarily from a delegate or convention perspective. 

Couldnt he have 16% in CA. if the rest are under 15 he gets it all?

No, that was Lex's point.  The Democrats allocate their delegates proportionately.  It is not "winner take all" like the GOP.  

I've always contended (though most people disagree with me) that this is how the electoral college should work in the general election. I'm not for abolishing it like many people are, but some tweaks would work well. Like in 2016, Trump beat Hillary in Pennsylvania 48.1% to 47.4%. Why the heck should Trump get all of PA's electoral votes for that? 

If you allocated electors by congressional district (or something), you'd give candidates a reason to campaign in non-swing states. Sure Trump can't win California as a whole, but maybe there are a few places where he could get some electoral votes. Same with Hillary in a place like Texas. Or New York. Sure the Democrat is going to win NYC, and thus the state, but I'd like if the other candidate could maybe pick up some electors in upstate New York. Upstate New York and NYC couldn't be more different. 

Just a way to make everyone's vote count without having to go to a full-on popular vote. 

A lot of great points. I might not ultimately agree with you, but it's definitely a sound argument. Maintaining the voice of each state while recognizing 51-49 and 70-30 should yield different rewards.

Yeah they'll never change it because the almighty Founding Fathers didn't lay it out that way. But I'd just like for the entire country to be a part of the process. Trump is doing a townhall in Scranton, PA next week. That will be the first of at least ten times he visits that area this year. The democratic nominee will do the same thing. Yet neither will visit Los Angeles or New York, the two-most populated cities in the country.  A dozen visits to Scranton, and none to Los Angeles, New York, or Houston. That makes no sense. 

Nothing against Scranton, I have roots there. But it's mind-numbing to think that Scranton is more important to a presidential candidate than much larger cities in non-swing states. 

I think m russ was echoing my point that the GOP primaries are winner take all like the electoral college.

I'm fairly certain that only the electoral college is in the constitution, not the winner take all allocation of electors. I'm fairly certain there was a movement or lawsuit to fight the winner take all format as unconstitutional because it takes away votes from a block of voters. Fat chance that will ever be opined on by the USSC.

Maine already splits the EC votes.  I think NE may as well.  There's nothing in the Constitution to prohibit it. 

I think I'm talking about the opposite, that Winner take all is taking votes away from the minority within each state. That's what could be unconstitutional.  Not the EC itself but how the votes are allocated in 48 states.

The  constitution directs us to follow the electoral college. As your point demonstrates, not winner take all.

I fully agree. Keep the Electoral College - practically, it mitigates further outsized representation by either the enormously populated or scarcely populated states - but allocate EC seats proportionally based on the voting outcome within the state.

mrussel1

Pete Buttigeg

benjs said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

pjl44 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

mrussel1 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mace1229 said:

CM189191 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I like warren, and it's too bad she's sliding in the polls. she makes the most sense and actually tells you what her plans are and how she'll do it. 

friendly reminder that only 5% of the delegates have been declared
there's a long road ahead
as more candidates drop out, those delegates will migrate to the more moderate candidates who remain
(that won't be bernie)

That is exactly what everyone said about Trump 4 years ago. Everyone said "don't worry, as some of the other 15 candidates drop out then their votes will not go to Trump." But that is exactly what happened. I'm guessing it will happen here too. Bernie only needs about 20% of the other voters when they drop to keep the lead, and that isnt much.

The GOP rules are very different than the DNC. Most states award their delegates on a winner take all basis similar to the electoral college. Trump won slot of early states with well under 50%.

Many experts surmise if the 2016 gop nominating contest was played under democratic rules, trump very well might never have become president.

Bernies big chance is California.  If he gets a blowout win there he might get into the 40% range of total delegates.  Anything less than 40% heading into the DNC and Bernie is done. He is not a democrat nor running on democratic values.

Dead on, although I don't know that even 40% of CA and TX will get him to a tipping point.  He needs to win with majorities in some states I believe, to make his nomination inevitable.  Great point on the 'winner take all' statement.  Winning CA at 35% is meaningful in optics for the media, but not necessarily from a delegate or convention perspective. 

Couldnt he have 16% in CA. if the rest are under 15 he gets it all?

No, that was Lex's point.  The Democrats allocate their delegates proportionately.  It is not "winner take all" like the GOP.  

I've always contended (though most people disagree with me) that this is how the electoral college should work in the general election. I'm not for abolishing it like many people are, but some tweaks would work well. Like in 2016, Trump beat Hillary in Pennsylvania 48.1% to 47.4%. Why the heck should Trump get all of PA's electoral votes for that? 

If you allocated electors by congressional district (or something), you'd give candidates a reason to campaign in non-swing states. Sure Trump can't win California as a whole, but maybe there are a few places where he could get some electoral votes. Same with Hillary in a place like Texas. Or New York. Sure the Democrat is going to win NYC, and thus the state, but I'd like if the other candidate could maybe pick up some electors in upstate New York. Upstate New York and NYC couldn't be more different. 

Just a way to make everyone's vote count without having to go to a full-on popular vote. 

A lot of great points. I might not ultimately agree with you, but it's definitely a sound argument. Maintaining the voice of each state while recognizing 51-49 and 70-30 should yield different rewards.

Yeah they'll never change it because the almighty Founding Fathers didn't lay it out that way. But I'd just like for the entire country to be a part of the process. Trump is doing a townhall in Scranton, PA next week. That will be the first of at least ten times he visits that area this year. The democratic nominee will do the same thing. Yet neither will visit Los Angeles or New York, the two-most populated cities in the country.  A dozen visits to Scranton, and none to Los Angeles, New York, or Houston. That makes no sense. 

Nothing against Scranton, I have roots there. But it's mind-numbing to think that Scranton is more important to a presidential candidate than much larger cities in non-swing states. 

I think m russ was echoing my point that the GOP primaries are winner take all like the electoral college.

I'm fairly certain that only the electoral college is in the constitution, not the winner take all allocation of electors. I'm fairly certain there was a movement or lawsuit to fight the winner take all format as unconstitutional because it takes away votes from a block of voters. Fat chance that will ever be opined on by the USSC.

Maine already splits the EC votes.  I think NE may as well.  There's nothing in the Constitution to prohibit it. 

I think I'm talking about the opposite, that Winner take all is taking votes away from the minority within each state. That's what could be unconstitutional.  Not the EC itself but how the votes are allocated in 48 states.

The  constitution directs us to follow the electoral college. As your point demonstrates, not winner take all.

I fully agree. Keep the Electoral College - practically, it mitigates further outsized representation by either the enormously populated or scarcely populated states - but allocate EC seats proportionally based on the voting outcome within the state.

It would really change the game, that's for sure.  Candidates would campaign in states that have long been forgotten by time the general comes around (NY, CA, TX) as close loss in those states would be worth exponentially more than a win in most states.  It would be interesting to game this out and determine how many, if any, election results would have changed.  It would more closely mirror the popular vote, and render the smaller states fairly insignificant.  

benjs

Mike Bloomberg

mrussel1 said:

benjs said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

pjl44 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

mrussel1 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mace1229 said:

CM189191 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I like warren, and it's too bad she's sliding in the polls. she makes the most sense and actually tells you what her plans are and how she'll do it. 

friendly reminder that only 5% of the delegates have been declared
there's a long road ahead
as more candidates drop out, those delegates will migrate to the more moderate candidates who remain
(that won't be bernie)

That is exactly what everyone said about Trump 4 years ago. Everyone said "don't worry, as some of the other 15 candidates drop out then their votes will not go to Trump." But that is exactly what happened. I'm guessing it will happen here too. Bernie only needs about 20% of the other voters when they drop to keep the lead, and that isnt much.

The GOP rules are very different than the DNC. Most states award their delegates on a winner take all basis similar to the electoral college. Trump won slot of early states with well under 50%.

Many experts surmise if the 2016 gop nominating contest was played under democratic rules, trump very well might never have become president.

Bernies big chance is California.  If he gets a blowout win there he might get into the 40% range of total delegates.  Anything less than 40% heading into the DNC and Bernie is done. He is not a democrat nor running on democratic values.

Dead on, although I don't know that even 40% of CA and TX will get him to a tipping point.  He needs to win with majorities in some states I believe, to make his nomination inevitable.  Great point on the 'winner take all' statement.  Winning CA at 35% is meaningful in optics for the media, but not necessarily from a delegate or convention perspective. 

Couldnt he have 16% in CA. if the rest are under 15 he gets it all?

No, that was Lex's point.  The Democrats allocate their delegates proportionately.  It is not "winner take all" like the GOP.  

I've always contended (though most people disagree with me) that this is how the electoral college should work in the general election. I'm not for abolishing it like many people are, but some tweaks would work well. Like in 2016, Trump beat Hillary in Pennsylvania 48.1% to 47.4%. Why the heck should Trump get all of PA's electoral votes for that? 

If you allocated electors by congressional district (or something), you'd give candidates a reason to campaign in non-swing states. Sure Trump can't win California as a whole, but maybe there are a few places where he could get some electoral votes. Same with Hillary in a place like Texas. Or New York. Sure the Democrat is going to win NYC, and thus the state, but I'd like if the other candidate could maybe pick up some electors in upstate New York. Upstate New York and NYC couldn't be more different. 

Just a way to make everyone's vote count without having to go to a full-on popular vote. 

A lot of great points. I might not ultimately agree with you, but it's definitely a sound argument. Maintaining the voice of each state while recognizing 51-49 and 70-30 should yield different rewards.

Yeah they'll never change it because the almighty Founding Fathers didn't lay it out that way. But I'd just like for the entire country to be a part of the process. Trump is doing a townhall in Scranton, PA next week. That will be the first of at least ten times he visits that area this year. The democratic nominee will do the same thing. Yet neither will visit Los Angeles or New York, the two-most populated cities in the country.  A dozen visits to Scranton, and none to Los Angeles, New York, or Houston. That makes no sense. 

Nothing against Scranton, I have roots there. But it's mind-numbing to think that Scranton is more important to a presidential candidate than much larger cities in non-swing states. 

I think m russ was echoing my point that the GOP primaries are winner take all like the electoral college.

I'm fairly certain that only the electoral college is in the constitution, not the winner take all allocation of electors. I'm fairly certain there was a movement or lawsuit to fight the winner take all format as unconstitutional because it takes away votes from a block of voters. Fat chance that will ever be opined on by the USSC.

Maine already splits the EC votes.  I think NE may as well.  There's nothing in the Constitution to prohibit it. 

I think I'm talking about the opposite, that Winner take all is taking votes away from the minority within each state. That's what could be unconstitutional.  Not the EC itself but how the votes are allocated in 48 states.

The  constitution directs us to follow the electoral college. As your point demonstrates, not winner take all.

I fully agree. Keep the Electoral College - practically, it mitigates further outsized representation by either the enormously populated or scarcely populated states - but allocate EC seats proportionally based on the voting outcome within the state.

It would really change the game, that's for sure.  Candidates would campaign in states that have long been forgotten by time the general comes around (NY, CA, TX) as close loss in those states would be worth exponentially more than a win in most states.  It would be interesting to game this out and determine how many, if any, election results would have changed.  It would more closely mirror the popular vote, and render the smaller states fairly insignificant.  

In terms of the smaller states' insignificance, yes, the state's already-small significance would be further diminished. That said, culture doesn't stop at state lines. My counter to this would be that for the small state with 3 EC votes, sure, maybe they're getting 2 votes towards the frontrunner and 1 against, but in the neighbouring states with 7 or 10, the impact of all states producing a plurality of EC votes (some in favour, some opposed) reorients this from being about a plurality of states producing the results, to a plurality of viewpoints producing the results.

I hope I'm explaining this in a way that makes sense to someone else, it's the best I can do  

Spiritual_Chaos

Bernie Sanders

Spiritual_Chaos said:

CM189191 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

CM189191 said:

CM189191 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I like warren, and it's too bad she's sliding in the polls. she makes the most sense and actually tells you what her plans are and how she'll do it. 

friendly reminder that only 5% of the delegates have been declared
there's a long road ahead
as more candidates drop out, those delegates will migrate to the more moderate candidates who remain
(that won't be bernie)

bernie has 43 delegates
the rest of the field has 54 combined

why does this look like you are refuting your own post?

It's still less than 50%. No way they are changing the rules for an outsider

Just gonna leave this here

https://twitter.com/tommyxtopher/status/1232872787267801088?s=19

What are you leaving? Her being dishonest? You supporting the dishonesty in question? Why ?

https://twitter.com/WalkerBragman/status/1232940696887341056?s=20

Just gonna leave this here:

https://twitter.com/cuteneolib/status/1232883963305365505?s=20

crickets...

CM189191

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

CM189191 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

CM189191 said:

CM189191 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I like warren, and it's too bad she's sliding in the polls. she makes the most sense and actually tells you what her plans are and how she'll do it. 

friendly reminder that only 5% of the delegates have been declared
there's a long road ahead
as more candidates drop out, those delegates will migrate to the more moderate candidates who remain
(that won't be bernie)

bernie has 43 delegates
the rest of the field has 54 combined

why does this look like you are refuting your own post?

It's still less than 50%. No way they are changing the rules for an outsider

Just gonna leave this here

https://twitter.com/tommyxtopher/status/1232872787267801088?s=19

What are you leaving? Her being dishonest? You supporting the dishonesty in question? Why ?

https://twitter.com/WalkerBragman/status/1232940696887341056?s=20

Just gonna leave this here:

https://twitter.com/cuteneolib/status/1232883963305365505?s=20

crickets...

whattup sealion?  squawk all you want

Bernie didn't like the rules 3 years ago.  The rules were re-written with Bernie's help and approval.  And now he says he won't abide by the rules he helped write.

That's the truth.

Where are the medical records?

Halifax2TheMax

CM189191 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

CM189191 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

CM189191 said:

CM189191 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I like warren, and it's too bad she's sliding in the polls. she makes the most sense and actually tells you what her plans are and how she'll do it. 

friendly reminder that only 5% of the delegates have been declared
there's a long road ahead
as more candidates drop out, those delegates will migrate to the more moderate candidates who remain
(that won't be bernie)

bernie has 43 delegates
the rest of the field has 54 combined

why does this look like you are refuting your own post?

It's still less than 50%. No way they are changing the rules for an outsider

Just gonna leave this here

https://twitter.com/tommyxtopher/status/1232872787267801088?s=19

What are you leaving? Her being dishonest? You supporting the dishonesty in question? Why ?

https://twitter.com/WalkerBragman/status/1232940696887341056?s=20

Just gonna leave this here:

https://twitter.com/cuteneolib/status/1232883963305365505?s=20

crickets...

whattup sealion?  squawk all you want

Bernie didn't like the rules 3 years ago.  The rules were re-written with Bernie's help and approval.  And now he says he won't abide by the rules he helped write.

That's the truth.

Where are the medical records?

I thought sealions barked?

OnWis97

Elisabeth Warren

mrussel1 said:

benjs said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

pjl44 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

mrussel1 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mace1229 said:

CM189191 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I like warren, and it's too bad she's sliding in the polls. she makes the most sense and actually tells you what her plans are and how she'll do it. 

friendly reminder that only 5% of the delegates have been declared
there's a long road ahead
as more candidates drop out, those delegates will migrate to the more moderate candidates who remain
(that won't be bernie)

That is exactly what everyone said about Trump 4 years ago. Everyone said "don't worry, as some of the other 15 candidates drop out then their votes will not go to Trump." But that is exactly what happened. I'm guessing it will happen here too. Bernie only needs about 20% of the other voters when they drop to keep the lead, and that isnt much.

The GOP rules are very different than the DNC. Most states award their delegates on a winner take all basis similar to the electoral college. Trump won slot of early states with well under 50%.

Many experts surmise if the 2016 gop nominating contest was played under democratic rules, trump very well might never have become president.

Bernies big chance is California.  If he gets a blowout win there he might get into the 40% range of total delegates.  Anything less than 40% heading into the DNC and Bernie is done. He is not a democrat nor running on democratic values.

Dead on, although I don't know that even 40% of CA and TX will get him to a tipping point.  He needs to win with majorities in some states I believe, to make his nomination inevitable.  Great point on the 'winner take all' statement.  Winning CA at 35% is meaningful in optics for the media, but not necessarily from a delegate or convention perspective. 

Couldnt he have 16% in CA. if the rest are under 15 he gets it all?

No, that was Lex's point.  The Democrats allocate their delegates proportionately.  It is not "winner take all" like the GOP.  

I've always contended (though most people disagree with me) that this is how the electoral college should work in the general election. I'm not for abolishing it like many people are, but some tweaks would work well. Like in 2016, Trump beat Hillary in Pennsylvania 48.1% to 47.4%. Why the heck should Trump get all of PA's electoral votes for that? 

If you allocated electors by congressional district (or something), you'd give candidates a reason to campaign in non-swing states. Sure Trump can't win California as a whole, but maybe there are a few places where he could get some electoral votes. Same with Hillary in a place like Texas. Or New York. Sure the Democrat is going to win NYC, and thus the state, but I'd like if the other candidate could maybe pick up some electors in upstate New York. Upstate New York and NYC couldn't be more different. 

Just a way to make everyone's vote count without having to go to a full-on popular vote. 

A lot of great points. I might not ultimately agree with you, but it's definitely a sound argument. Maintaining the voice of each state while recognizing 51-49 and 70-30 should yield different rewards.

Yeah they'll never change it because the almighty Founding Fathers didn't lay it out that way. But I'd just like for the entire country to be a part of the process. Trump is doing a townhall in Scranton, PA next week. That will be the first of at least ten times he visits that area this year. The democratic nominee will do the same thing. Yet neither will visit Los Angeles or New York, the two-most populated cities in the country.  A dozen visits to Scranton, and none to Los Angeles, New York, or Houston. That makes no sense. 

Nothing against Scranton, I have roots there. But it's mind-numbing to think that Scranton is more important to a presidential candidate than much larger cities in non-swing states. 

I think m russ was echoing my point that the GOP primaries are winner take all like the electoral college.

I'm fairly certain that only the electoral college is in the constitution, not the winner take all allocation of electors. I'm fairly certain there was a movement or lawsuit to fight the winner take all format as unconstitutional because it takes away votes from a block of voters. Fat chance that will ever be opined on by the USSC.

Maine already splits the EC votes.  I think NE may as well.  There's nothing in the Constitution to prohibit it. 

I think I'm talking about the opposite, that Winner take all is taking votes away from the minority within each state. That's what could be unconstitutional.  Not the EC itself but how the votes are allocated in 48 states.

The  constitution directs us to follow the electoral college. As your point demonstrates, not winner take all.

I fully agree. Keep the Electoral College - practically, it mitigates further outsized representation by either the enormously populated or scarcely populated states - but allocate EC seats proportionally based on the voting outcome within the state.

It would really change the game, that's for sure.  Candidates would campaign in states that have long been forgotten by time the general comes around (NY, CA, TX) as close loss in those states would be worth exponentially more than a win in most states.  It would be interesting to game this out and determine how many, if any, election results would have changed.  It would more closely mirror the popular vote, and render the smaller states fairly insignificant.  

I actually think the only reasons the Dems even have an outside shot is that most states are winner-take-all.  If every state followed the Maine/Nebraska model, you'd see the 438 votes based on congressional districts roughly mirror the population* but the 100 Senate-based votes would heavily favor the GOP.  What would happen to California and New York alone is huge...though obviously that would also happen in Texas.

Actually, not only do states not have to be winner-take-all (as Maine and Nebraska prove) they don't even have to let their citizens vote.  If, say, Nevada, wants to have its own legislature vote for its electors, it can do so (that's kind of how it was originally set up).   (I could not find a great source, but it's discussed in Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Electoral_College#Alternative_methods_of_choosing_electors) 

*this would probably make gerrymandering even worse.

Jason P

Tom Steyer

I felt bad for Tom Steyer with no votes from the PJ faithfull ... although tonight is the first time I can recall seeing the name .... nevertheless, everyone needs a friend.

Ledbetterman10

Joe Biden

Jason P said:

I felt bad for Tom Steyer with no votes from the PJ faithfull ... although tonight is the first time I can recall seeing the name .... nevertheless, everyone needs a friend.

I laughed so hard at this post. It just sums up his “campaign” so well. 

pjl44

Andrew Yang