The Democratic Presidential Debates

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  • F Me In The BrainF Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 31,644
    It’s not a fake Bernie site, it specifically says it’s not associated with him directly. They aren’t hiding it 
    Also, the person who originally shared it with us here presented it as a Bernie site, right?
    I'm guessing it was an honest mistake, no reason to think otherwise....but it was presented here as a Bernie site, which would make it fake.

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  • A bona fide fake Bernie site? You don’t say?
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  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 42,699
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    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
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  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 42,699

    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mcgruff10 said:
    Oh I have him on ignore, dude likes to troll me for some reason.  Thanks for pointing that out.  

    disagreeing/arguing against =\= trolling
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,060
    edited February 2020
    pjl44 said:
    He was told that his vote was representative of "why the US can't reach the baseline of a humane society." I am not being hyperbolic. 
    having ”universal healthcare” is the very baseline, because it is a human right. I happen to believe. 

    i am not being hyperbolic. 

    And with every major country but one having it, it seems its not very controversial either. 

    But please, prove me wrong. Inam open to change. 
    Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,944
    having ”universal healthcare” is the very baseline, because it is a human right. I happen to believe. 

    i am not being hyperbolic. 

    And with every major country but one having it, it seems its not very controversial either. 

    But please, prove me wrong. Inam open to change. 

    No, wait, back up.  I said I thought pjl44 was being hyperbolic.  pjl44 did not say you were hyperbolic. 

    LOL, this place is funny.  Someone is accused of saying some else one is "heartless monster".  Someone else says that might be a bit hyperbolic. Someone else says "I'm not being hyperbolic". 

    It gets tangled when the words are misconstrued or not carefully read.  I can only come to one conclusion:


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  • brianlux said:

    No, wait, back up.  I said I thought pjl44 was being hyperbolic.  pjl44 did not say you were hyperbolic. 

    LOL, this place is funny.  Someone is accused of saying some else one is "heartless monster".  Someone else says that might be a bit hyperbolic. Someone else says "I'm not being hyperbolic". 

    It gets tangled when the words are misconstrued or not carefully read.  I can only come to one conclusion:


    Ok. Now I'm lost. So all I can say its that:

    https://youtu.be/HIOnDL_NsuU
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,060
    edited February 2020
    Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,060
    edited February 2020
    So tell me all you political professionals - So, she's a classic old school social democrat(?)



    Has Sanders said he doesn't believe in society having markets? Does he want to rid the US of the market economy altogether? Than I'm close to jumping over to team Warren. Or is Warren just selling Bernie short here.

    Wikipedia puts a = betwen Social democracy and Democratic socialism:

    The United Nations World Happiness Report shows that the happiest nations are concentrated in Northern Europe, where the Nordic model (which democratic socialists want to strengthen against austerity and neoliberalism)[497] is employed, with the list being topped by Denmark, where the Social Democrats led their first government in 1924 and governed Denmark for most of the 20th century. The Norwegian Labour Party, the Swedish Social Democratic Party and the Social Democratic Party of Finland also led the majority of governments and were the most popular political parties in their respective countries during the 20th century. While not as popular like its counterparts, the Icelandic Social Democratic Party and the Social Democratic Alliance have also led several governments and have been part of numerous coalitions. This success is at times attributed to the Nordic model in the region, where the aforementioned democratic socialist, labourist and social democratic political parties have dominated the political scene and laid the ground to universalistic welfare states in the 20th century.[498][499] 

    Never heard of a Social democrat/Democratic Socialist not believing in markets.

    I mean famed Social Democrat Olof Palme also puts a = between the two:

    Mr Fälldin has been nagging me to explain why I am a socialist. I am a democratic socialist, with pride and with joy. I became one when travelling India seeing its terrible poverty blended with pockets of immense wealth; when travelling the United States and seeing an in some respects even more humiliating poverty; when, as a young man, I came eye to eye with Communist enslavement and the oppression and inhuman persecution in the Communist states. And when I came to the Nazi concentration camps and saw the death lists of social democrats and trade-unionists.



    So is she being phony here? Like wit her other panicridden digs against Bernie lately. 
    Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • eddieceddiec Posts: 3,952
    Also, the person who originally shared it with us here presented it as a Bernie site, right?
    I'm guessing it was an honest mistake, no reason to think otherwise....but it was presented here as a Bernie site, which would make it fake.

    My bad. I wasn't trying to be misleading.
  • ecdancecdanc Posts: 1,814

    lol bona fide. Love the language. Enjoy the preexisting conditions.

    the exact reason I’d pull Wikipedia is to get as impartial wording as possible, as I usually enjoy what experts have to say about political theory in an entirely different manner. 
    I don’t know about impartial, but the language you posted is inaccurate and misleading. Libertarianism is a Right political philosophy. 
  • ecdancecdanc Posts: 1,814
    brianlux said:

    No, wait, back up.  I said I thought pjl44 was being hyperbolic.  pjl44 did not say you were hyperbolic. 

    LOL, this place is funny.  Someone is accused of saying some else one is "heartless monster".  Someone else says that might be a bit hyperbolic. Someone else says "I'm not being hyperbolic". 

    It gets tangled when the words are misconstrued or not carefully read.  I can only come to one conclusion:


    And you misconstrued SC's post as the icing on the cake. 
  • ecdancecdanc Posts: 1,814
    The twins are truly trying to support their agendas here as well.  I'm sure they love these sites.
    Who is "they" in your last sentence?
  • pjl44pjl44 Posts: 10,061
    having ”universal healthcare” is the very baseline, because it is a human right. I happen to believe. 

    i am not being hyperbolic. 

    And with every major country but one having it, it seems its not very controversial either. 

    But please, prove me wrong. Inam open to change. 
    The only reason I wouldn't say healthcare is a human right is because it requires education and training to provide it. It's not the same as agreeing not to harm someone or allowing people to peacefully practice their religion. 

    I think it's in whatever the next tier down is with things like food and housing. Even as a libertarian, I'm fine with some government inefficiency in developing programs for assistance. I'd want them at the state level and with good oversight. 

    There are certainly issues with the healthcare system here, but the elderly (Medicare) and indigent (Medicaid) are generally pretty well supported. The biggest barrier in those cases is education. There are many, many uncovered people who are eligible for a variety of programs but it's harder than you might think to get the word out. But that could be another thread entirely. 
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,638
    eddiec said:
    My bad. I wasn't trying to be misleading.
    Yeah I don’t think so. I don’t think it’s really an surprise cost will go up for some under the sanders plan. He doesn’t just hit millionaires (Like himself) and billionaires (like Bloomberg).
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  • ecdancecdanc Posts: 1,814
    pjl44 said:
    The only reason I wouldn't say healthcare is a human right is because it requires education and training to provide it. It's not the same as agreeing not to harm someone or allowing people to peacefully practice their religion. 

    I think it's in whatever the next tier down is with things like food and housing. Even as a libertarian, I'm fine with some government inefficiency in developing programs for assistance. I'd want them at the state level and with good oversight. 

    There are certainly issues with the healthcare system here, but the elderly (Medicare) and indigent (Medicaid) are generally pretty well supported. The biggest barrier in those cases is education. There are many, many uncovered people who are eligible for a variety of programs but it's harder than you might think to get the word out. But that could be another thread entirely. 
    I found part of your post hilarious: you have freedom of a religion as a basic human right, but food goes in "the next tier down." Y'all are allowed to pray until you starve to death!! 
  • ecdancecdanc Posts: 1,814
    mrussel1 said:
    Waiving tuition college debt is a regressive tax.  It benefits those in society most likely to earn more (college graduates).  Whatever tax money is allocated to this benefit should be solely targeted to the last advantaged in our society, not to middle and upper class income families.  The goal of the program should be to increase college participation for the lower income levels.  
    Well, we can tax those people in other ways to even things out! 
  • pjl44 said:
    The only reason I wouldn't say healthcare is a human right is because it requires education and training to provide it. It's not the same as agreeing not to harm someone or allowing people to peacefully practice their religion. 

    I think it's in whatever the next tier down is with things like food and housing. Even as a libertarian, I'm fine with some government inefficiency in developing programs for assistance. I'd want them at the state level and with good oversight. 

    There are certainly issues with the healthcare system here, but the elderly (Medicare) and indigent (Medicaid) are generally pretty well supported. The biggest barrier in those cases is education. There are many, many uncovered people who are eligible for a variety of programs but it's harder than you might think to get the word out. But that could be another thread entirely. 
    Well, that is focusing on a specific word chosen. Change the UN term of "human right" to "the right of being a citizen of a country" then.

    My point still stand.
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • pjl44pjl44 Posts: 10,061
    Well, that is focusing on a specific word chosen. Change the UN term of "human right" to "the right of being a citizen of a country" then.

    My point still stand.
    I guess in that regard then, no, a government shouldn't provide healthcare for every single citizen. There should be programs to cover vulnerable populations but people who can afford to pay for a health plan should.
  • The JugglerThe Juggler Posts: 49,569
    Oh man. That 60 Minutes interview was bad. 

    Saying “I don’t know” when asked about how many trillions his plans (that will never get enacted) will cost. 

    Praising Fidel Castro. 

    Folks, this was an interview with ANDERSON COOPER. 


    This is nightmare scenario for those of us who just want to defeat Trump. Ugh. 


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  • F Me In The BrainF Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 31,644
    Oh man. That 60 Minutes interview was bad. 

    Saying “I don’t know” when asked about how many trillions his plans (that will never get enacted) will cost. 

    Praising Fidel Castro. 

    Folks, this was an interview with ANDERSON COOPER. 


    This is nightmare scenario for those of us who just want to defeat Trump. Ugh. 


    That he doesn't know what his plan will cost is frightful.  What a joke 😂

    The scarier thing is that the extremist supporters don't care - it doesn't matter to them. (sound like another group?)

    I don't think it mattered, overall, but Bernie is the worst option from this group to have a shot at beating Trump.

    It also pains me to think I would ever vote for this guy, buy I prefer a change from Trump....even if it has to be the other extremist group in our country.
    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • ecdancecdanc Posts: 1,814
    Oh man. That 60 Minutes interview was bad. 

    Saying “I don’t know” when asked about how many trillions his plans (that will never get enacted) will cost. 

    Praising Fidel Castro. 

    Folks, this was an interview with ANDERSON COOPER. 


    This is nightmare scenario for those of us who just want to defeat Trump. Ugh. 


    "When Fidel Castro came into office, you know what he did? He had a massive literacy program. Is that a bad thing? Even though Fidel Castro did it?"

    Perhaps you would care to answer that question?
  • The JugglerThe Juggler Posts: 49,569
    edited February 2020
    That he doesn't know what his plan will cost is frightful.  What a joke 😂

    The scarier thing is that the extremist supporters don't care - it doesn't matter to them. (sound like another group?)

    I don't think it mattered, overall, but Bernie is the worst option from this group to have a shot at beating Trump.

    It also pains me to think I would ever vote for this guy, buy I prefer a change from Trump....even if it has to be the other extremist group in our country.
    For sure. I would vote for Spiritual Chaos over Trump. Haha. 

    But yeah, man. I never thought I’d vote for Hillary and now...this. Really sucks. 

    I follow a lot of the Never Trumper people on Twitter. They’re coming out and saying they can’t vote for Bernie. 

    It should be simple. Look how you flipped the house a year and a half ago. Just fucking do that again. You put up a democratic socialist against an authoritarian populist, it’s only going to divide the country further and leave even more people in the middle without a home. 
    Post edited by The Juggler on
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  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,060
    edited February 2020
    Oh man. That 60 Minutes interview was bad. 

    Saying “I don’t know” when asked about how many trillions his plans (that will never get enacted) will cost. 

    Praising Fidel Castro. 

    Folks, this was an interview with ANDERSON COOPER. 


    This is nightmare scenario for those of us who just want to defeat Trump. Ugh. 


    In the end, hopefully it should cost the average person something like the blue bars in this graph instead of that winning red one. If you are lucky maybe people will live longer, and less babies will die when born also:




    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • ecdancecdanc Posts: 1,814
    For sure. I would vote for Spiritual Chaos over Trump. Haha. 

    But yeah, man. I never thought I’d vote for Hillary and now...this. Really sucks. 

    I follow a lot of the Never Trumper people on Twitter. They’re coming out and saying they can’t vote for Bernie. 

    It should be simple. Look how you flipped the house a year and a half ago. Just fucking do that again. You put up a democratic socialist against an authoritarian populist, it’s only going to divide the country further and leave even more people in the middle without a home. 
    By running candidates farther to the Left. That's how. 
  • The JugglerThe Juggler Posts: 49,569
    ecdanc said:
    By running candidates farther to the Left. That's how. 
    Not how it was done, friend. 
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  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 28,804
    ecdanc said:
    By running candidates farther to the Left. That's how. 
    That definitely wasnt true for New Jersey.  We picked up four house seats by running a more moderate candidate. 
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • The JugglerThe Juggler Posts: 49,569
    In the end, hopefully it should cost the average person something like the blue bars in this graph instead of that winning red one. If you are lucky maybe people will live longer, and less babies will die when born also:




    As an astute follower of American politics, please articulate how the Dems will not only flip the senate, but gain 20+ more seats to make this happen. Because if they don’t, there is a less than zero chance of it happening. I’ll wait. 
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  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,060
    edited February 2020
    pjl44 said:
    I guess in that regard then, no, a government shouldn't provide healthcare for every single citizen. There should be programs to cover vulnerable populations but people who can afford to pay for a health plan should.
    All other major countries (paying roughly half for their healthcare): 




    The best working model for building a society spewing this like a vicious battle-rap to that libertarian thing you got going:

    The United Nations World Happiness Report shows that the happiest nations are concentrated in social democratic nations, especially in Northern Europe, where the Nordic model is dominant. This is at times attributed to the success of the Nordic model in the region, where similar democratic socialistlabourist and social democratic parties dominated the region's political scene and laid the ground to their universalistic welfare states in the 20th century. The Nordic countries, including Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway and Sweden as well as Greenland and the Faroe Islands, also ranked highest on the metrics of real GDP per capitaeconomic equalitypublic healthlife expectancyhaving someone to count on, perceived freedom to make life choicesgenerosityquality of life and human development while countries practicing a neoliberal form of government have registered relatively poorer results.[436][437] Similar reports have likewise listed Scandinavian and other social democratic countries as ranking high on indicators such as civil liberties,[438] democracy,[439] press,[440] labour and economic freedoms,[441][442] peace[443] and freedom from corruption.[444] Numerous studies and surveys indicate that people tend to live happier lives in countries ruled by social democratic parties, compared to countries ruled by neoliberal, centrist, or right-wing governments.[445][446][447][448]
    Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
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